Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 74

Thread: Rock Band: My strummer broke... AND I FIXED IT

  1. #1
    Account closed World's End Supernova
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Boletaria, Gamertag: Ben Sones PSN: bsones
    Posts
    20,040

    Rock Band: My strummer broke... AND I FIXED IT

    This post is a public service announcement. Last night, my Strat developed the dreaded "downstrum has stopped registering intermittently" problem that so many people seem to be having. Sometimes it worked fine, but other times (especially in fast-strumming rhythm sections) it would either not register some of the time, or double-strum. Upstrum (the real downstrum, for actual guitar players) still worked fine. It was bad enough that I was failing out of songs on which I can normally get four or five stars.

    I read all the official forum posts in the RB tech forum (which propose a number of different remedies), and then decided to open up the case and have a look at the mechanism for myself. Unlike the GHIII guitar, you can open the back of the Strat without voiding your warranty (the Les Paul has a sticker over one of the screwholes that voids the warranty if you break it). So before RMAing it, why not have a look?

    I'm glad that I did, because I was able to determine what the problem was, and I fixed it. My Strat downstrum now works 100%. I just went and played Maps on hard (my default calibration song), and scored 99%. Oh, and one other thing: if you hear a little rattling sound inside the Strat, that's normal. It's not a broken piece of innards kicking around in there, it's just the normal sound that the tilt sensor makes. I had the same thing, and thought something must have broken in there, but nothing was.

    If your downstrum has stopped working, I'll bet you a dollar that you are experiencing exactly the same problem. Which means that you can fix it, too. It's not difficult, but it does require:

    1. A very small (jeweller's) screwdriver. The screw that you will be adjusting is Phillips, but the slots are very thin and flat, so a flathead actually works better.

    2. A regular phillips screwdriver. This is for the screws on the back of the guitar. They look small, but trust me, you'll want a good sized screwdriver to get the necessary torque. If you have a power screwdriver, that will reduice the amount of time required for this operation significantly (there are a lot of screws).

    3. A set of tweezers. The type that comes in those little computer tool kits is ideal.

    Proceedure
    1. Remove all the screws from the back of the Strat with the Phillips screwdriver. There are quite a few, and if you are not using a power screwdriver, this will be the most time-consuming step of the process. Take note of where the screws go: they come in three different lengths. The two short ones go in the two holes at the top (where the guitar body is cut out), the four long ones go in the four holes on the back of the neck, and the medium size ones go in the rest of the holes. On some guitars, there may also be two additional screws on the front of the guitar, behind the pick guard. If the back will not come off after you have removed all of the rear screws, then remove the pick guard from the front (yes, even more screws!), and check to see if you have these.

    2. Carefully lift the back off. You are now looking at the back of the strummer mechanism. It looks like this:




    It's a pretty simple mechanism. Basically, you have a microswitch that consists of two metal contacts sticking out of a square plastic housing ("tension screw housing") affixed to the body by a tiny screw ("tension screw"). A spacer between the contacts holds them apart in their resting state. When you strum, the plastic nub on the strum bar ("A") pushes the plastic nub affixed to the bottom contact and presses the contacts together. When you release, the contacts seperate. The plastic spacer between the contacts ensures that the bottom contact is under greater tension than the upper contact when the strum bar is pressed, making sure that when you release the strum bar, the bottom contact will snap away quickly. Note that there is a rubber pad affixed to the screw post that is above the top contact. This serves to dampen vibration when you press the strum bar (vibrating contacts can cause double-strumming). It is not, as some people on the official RB tech forums suggest, meant to push the top contact closer to the bottom one. In fact, ideally, the top contact should not even be touching the rubber pad in its resting state.

    The problem
    Here's what happens: the whole microswitch mechanism can rotate. The thing that prevents it from doing so is the tension screw that attaches the microswitch to the guitar body. If you are having problems getting downstrum to register consistently, chances are very good that the microswitch for downstrum has been rotated out of alignment slightly. It's possible that some of the guitars come with misaligned microswitches, or that the tension screw was not tightened sufficiently at the factory. It is also possible that even with a properly tightened screw, the microswitch gets pushed out of alignment over time through regular use.

    Whatever the case, here is what a properly aligned microswitch SHOULD look like: The contacts should angle down towards the strum bar; they should not be parralel to it. The top contact will likely not be touching the rubber pad on the screwpost above it. The two plastic nubs (A and B) should be touching when the mechanism is in its rest state. If there is a small gap between them, then your microswitch has been knocked out of alignment.

    The thing is, nub A is supposed to push on nub B when you strum, not hit it like a hammer. If there is a gap between the two nubs, then A is hitting B like a hammer when you strum. This will cause the lower contact to vibrate when you release the strum bar, which in turn will cause double-strums. Also, if the microswitch is rotated away from the strum bar, then you will have to press harder on the strum bar to make contact. This makes it much easier to miss notes, especially when you are strumming fast.

    My microswitch was rotated away from the strum bar (I used the upstrum microswitch as a reference, since upstrum on my guitar was still working perfectly). The contacts were parallel to the strum bar, and there was a gap between plastic nubs A and B. The top contact was pressed against the rubber pad in its rest state. If your downstrum microswitch looks like this, then you have the same problem.

    The fix
    1. Using the very small jeweller's screwdriver, loosen (but don't remove) the tension screw that holds the microswitch in place. This will make the switch VERY loose. You'll be able to rotate/wiggle it freely.

    2. With the tweezers in your left hand, grasp the tension screw housing. Rotate it counterclockwise (if you are fixing the downstrum microswitch) until the two plastic nubs are touching. Put some pressure on it--you want the plastic nubs to make good contact--but don't use so much pressure that the contacts are pressed together. Hold it in place.

    3. With the jewellers screwdriver in your right hand (still holding the microswitch in position with the tweezers in your left), retighten the tension screw. Torque it down tightly (but not so much that you strip it out!).

    4. That's it. Reassemble your guitar. It should now function properly.


    Long-term prospects
    It's not clear whether or not this problem will reoccur. If the misalignment was caused at the factory (perhaps the tension screw was never properly tightened, or perhaps the whole thing was just misaligned to begin with, when they tightened it), then this fix may be permanent. It could also be a design flaw, though--it is possible that normal play will slowly push the microswitch away from the strum bar over time, even if you have it tightened down properly. If that's the case, then a possible permanent fix would be to glue the thing in position with superglue. Then tighten the screw (to hold the microswitch in place while the glue cures), and give it plenty of time to cure before playing it again.

    Personally, I'd rather avoid that sort of irreversible fix unless it's really necessary. If my strum bar gets flaky again, though...


    Mythbusting
    There are some suggestions on the official Rock Band forums for how to fix the strummer. Many of them are wrong, and a few suggest doing things that you should probably avoid. Such as:

    1. Filing down the "raised bits" of the contacts with a metal file. Don't do this. Those raised bits are an important part of the microswitch.

    2. Placing tape (or some other sort of spacer) between the outside contact and that screw post that has the little rubber pad stuck to it. Some people claim to have had luck doing this, but I think it's a bad idea. All this does is bend the outer contact closer to the inner one. This may make it easier to register strums, but if you have space between your plastic nubs, then I suspect that it will do nothing to prevent double-strums, and it may even exacerbate the problem.


    Edit: added info about extra screws on some models.
    Last edited by Ben Sones; 11-24-2007 at 03:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Spinning Toe
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    512
    Awesome post. Mine's not broken yet but I'm bookmarking this thread for when it (probably) happens.

  3. #3
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    9,442
    I long for the old days when companies actually made shit that wasn't likely to break within a week of use. If I had Rock Band and the guitar broke, I'd send that shit back (even if self-fixing was easy) just to force them to eat the cost of replacement/fixing.

  4. #4
    Spinning Toe
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    630
    Why go without a guitar for days or weeks when you can fix it yourself in fifteen minutes?

    Instead of gluing, put some Loctite on the screw. Less permanent, same effect.

  5. #5
    Social Worker
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    My Crib
    Posts
    3,025
    Thanks for this post. My guitar flaked out yesterday, almost exactly at the oft-reported 4 hour mark, so I switched over to my Xplorer until I could give a whack at fixing it.

  6. #6
    World's End Supernova
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    17,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Coca Cola Zero
    I long for the old days when companies actually made shit that wasn't likely to break within a week of use. If I had Rock Band and the guitar broke, I'd send that shit back (even if self-fixing was easy) just to force them to eat the cost of replacement/fixing.
    Not trying to defend the companies involved here, but these devices are a whole new level of problem. They need to be designed to be abused over and over again.

    Interestingly, when I got into DDR a few years ago Red Octane was the only company providing decent dance pads at a decent price. I ended up buying their metal pad, which was not only bulletproof but $100 less than the competition.

    But even their soft pads were considered to be the best, and longest lasting.

    With Red Octane no longer making the instruments for Rock Band (that is true, isn't it?) it's not surprising to me that there are going to be teething problems. After all, it's not just a design issue, it's a manufacturing issue, and top quality child labor is hard to find.

  7. #7
    How To Go
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA X360 & PS3 gamertag: Whitta
    Posts
    11,948
    Wow, very cool post.

    I understand EA's suggested fix of blasting the strum bar with compressed air is also fixing a lot of problems.

  8. #8
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    7,759
    This is a great, highly informative post.

    That said, I still think the strat sucks horribly as a plastic guitar controller, even when it's not broken.

    I'm seriously considering selling all my RB strats on craigslist. I just can't see myself playing them, ever.

  9. #9
    How To Go
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA X360 & PS3 gamertag: Whitta
    Posts
    11,948
    Interesting to see how divided people are on the strats. I love mine, much more than any of the GH guitars. Non-clicky strumbar ftw.

  10. #10
    World's End Supernova
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    17,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Whitta
    Non-clicky strumbar ftw.
    How do you play acoustic?

  11. #11
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    FKA Lokust
    Posts
    5,590
    I like the feel and non clickyness of the strat, but it just seems to miss notes that I know that I don't miss with the les paul. I know I don't miss them on the les paul because I fire up the les paul and I hit all those notes...

    It's a nice guitar for the 'feel' and the unique features of it but I don't play above hard with it or I get frustrated :(

  12. #12
    How To Go
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL Gamertag/PSN: Jazar
    Posts
    10,731
    I'm thinking of waiting until right before the warranty expires and then order a replacement and hope that it has a better build the these launch units.

  13. #13
    Account closed Social Worker
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Newark
    Posts
    2,927
    Quote Originally Posted by wumpus
    This is a great, highly informative post.

    That said, I still think the strat sucks horribly as a plastic guitar controller, even when it's not broken.

    I'm seriously considering selling all my RB strats on craigslist. I just can't see myself playing them, ever.
    How many do you have?

  14. #14
    Social Worker
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    San Diego; GamerTag: "Rorschach Six"
    Posts
    3,505
    I'm with Whitta. I got to play the strat tonight for the first time and I love it. Feels less like a toy, I like the frets right next to each other to slide quickly from one to the other, and the non-clicky strum bar doesn't double click when I do a Pete Townsend windmill. :)

  15. #15
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    7,759
    How many do you have?
    Three.

    I do think the RB strat is probably OK for easy and medium. It just can't deliver the precision you really need to do hard or better, IMO. Side by side play with the GH3 Les confirms this many times over for me. With the strat, I can't tell if it's because *I* made a mistake or because the mushy strums and indeterminate buttons caused me to screw up. And that sucks.

  16. #16
    Account closed Social Worker
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Newark
    Posts
    2,927
    Why in the world do you have three?

  17. #17
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    7,759
    Because I bought three copies of the game. I'll get comped for one copy, as it's intended for work.

  18. #18
    Social Worker
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    4,414
    My strat's strum bar just went. Towards the end of Green Grass and High Tides, my last song left. =/

    Aside from the strum bar issue, the overdrive issue, and the lack of a good textural indicator on the middle fret, I think the strat is a pretty solid guitar. It's especially good at double strumming compared to the clicky GH guitars. I don't agree that it can't be played on expert. It might take some getting used to, but I nearly 5 starred everything on the first go through using it. If it was better at downstrumming (too much resistance, I have to double strum much more with it because I get tired) I would probably even prefer it to the other available options.

  19. #19
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    5,089
    Wow, now I'm kind of glad that Rock Band is not available over here yet. I'd be pissed of if my equipment broke so soon, especially since we'll probably end up having to pay €170 for the big box, which is like $252 at this point. Not so keen on getting the game before they introduce some improved, 'second gen' instruments.

    -Julian

  20. #20
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,631
    I'm missing something with removing the back of the guitar. I've gotten all the screws out and it feels like there's something in the middle of the guitar that keeps the back from coming apart. You say to "gently" pull the back off, which makes me think I'm doing something wrong.

  21. #21
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,631
    Okay, I've figured this one out. My model of guitar has 2 additional screws BEHIND the pick guard. So to take mine apart I have to unscrew the pickguard from the front as well to take those screws out.

    Ben, you may want to edit your initial post to mention this as part of the fix for some guitars. This thread got picked up by Gizmodo even :)

  22. #22
    Account closed World's End Supernova
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Boletaria, Gamertag: Ben Sones PSN: bsones
    Posts
    20,040
    Got it, Reldan--thanks!

  23. #23
    Spinning Toe
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    667
    My RB strat is still in the box... I don't feel compelled to use it, since I prefer the RF Gibson. When my friends are over, I sometimes let them play and play along with my real guitar, it's actually quite fun!

  24. #24
    Account closed World's End Supernova
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Boletaria, Gamertag: Ben Sones PSN: bsones
    Posts
    20,040
    So I think I'm going to do a more serious mod, replacing the switches that are in the guitar with new (and better) ones. While Googling around, I found this page, featuring switches that look nearly identical to the ones that are in the guitar. This manufacturer was probably their supplier, at least for the switches in my Fender. The problem? These switches have an estimated switching life of 50,000 cycles. That is a really, really low number.

    So, I'm thinking of replacing them with something better. This place, for instance, sells leaf-style switches for pinball machine bumper buttons. Every one of them looks much, much sturdier, and some have gold contacts. Alternately, I could go with snap-action microswitches, like the ones in the Red Octane guitars. I sort of like the silent operation, though. Either way, I'll need to figure out a way to mount them.

    I will post updates on my progress.

  25. #25
    Social Worker
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,921
    Awesome thread.

    Also, the RB strat shits all over any of the GH guitars -- especially the crappy Xplorer -- for me. Easier to slide my fingers across frets, easier to get my strum on, and I have no idea what the complaint is about Overdrive since it works perfectly for me.

    Though the GH3 axe is very good, I'd take the RB strat any day.

  26. #26
    How To Go
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Reading, PA
    Posts
    14,568
    I finally played around with the Rock Band guitar at Best Buy last night and it was clearly broken. Probably a similar problem to what Ben had, but it really made me a lot less interested in ever getting this game.

  27. #27
    New Romantic Vesper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Waukesha, WI PSN:Vesper-P iOS:Vesper6
    Posts
    5,165
    I've been enjoying the Strat with no problems with downstrumming thus far. Hoping I don't have to fix it. In any case, while I really like the feel of it, I'm having some difficulties on Expert and higher level Hard songs. For example, I was playing Blackened on Hard last night, and died during the solo. This solo isn't terribly difficult and were I playing with the Xplorer in GH3, I think it would have been fine. I need to try it again with the Xplorer in RB to see how it goes. Maybe the game is just pickier on timing than GH2/GH3, but maybe it's the different guitar feel that's doing me in.

    I'd really hate to not use the Strat though. Cheesy as it is, I really like being able to change my effects for overdrive/solos. Speaking of Overdrive, I noticed that mine is extremely sensitive when it activates. So much so that if I have it tilted just a little too much, I can't activate it because the switch is already tripped. I've been making a point to dip the neck down a little before lifting up, and it works all the time that way.

  28. #28
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,631
    Okay, found out a lot of interesting stuff yesterday.

    Basically the guitar I have is completely different inside than what Ben has. It has leaf switches mounted vertically directly across from each other on either side of the strum bar. There's no metal, or spacers, or contacts involved, just plastic sliding against plastic.

    The sticker on this box was dated Oct-17-2007. Interestingly I also have another copy of the game (preordered through Amazon) dated Oct-15-2007. I decided to open this box up as well to see if it's components worked any better. This "older" copy of the game has the guitar Ben is talking about.

    This "older" guitar's strummer is a LOT less flimsy feeling than the "newer" guitar I got, which feels almost like it's loose. It seems fine for now, except that the effects switch is broken and only switches between Chorus and None.

    They obviously changed design midway through production. The new design isn't much better than old, however, because after a couple days use the UPSTRUM is now only working intermittently. I'm not sure how this is even possible given the mechanism for the switches being used, other than that my guitar has a faulty switch. There's nothing inside to bend or get out of alignment. The guts of this model of guitar looks very janky inside as well - there's masking tape being used all over the place to hold wires down.

    *MAY BE IMPORTANT*
    Additionally, the drum kit from each box is also different. The "newer" kit (Oct-17) has less pronounced ridges along the rim of each pad - the lip is only a few millimeters raised. The "older" kit has rims that are maybe a centimeter above the pad.

    This is important, because the newer kit has a major design flaw with the red pad - if you single-stroke roll past a certain speed it will stop registering altogether. This literally makes the following songs impossible to get through on Expert:

    (Don't Fear) The Reaper
    Train Kept a 'Rollin
    Run to the Hills

    The (Oct-15) dated drums with the higher rims do not seem to have this problem. I objectively tested this by going into Practice mode on the Drum Roll section of Train Kept a 'Rollin, and I can consistently score at least 85% on that section, and well above 90% on several tries with the older kit. With the newer (Oct-17) drums, using the EXACT same technique, I was getting low 50's with 60% tops, which means failure if playing the song in-game.

    If you guys have this drum set with slighly upraised lips, I would highly recommend you test this yourself. Others at the Scorehero forum have been reporting this as a problem - the only thing that reportedly may help is wrapping the pad in tape in order to make it more responsive, but this is really only masking what has got to be a design flaw. I think this hasn't been reported much yet because a lot of people are not playing drums on Expert and it's only the newer kits (2G drums?) that have this error. The reviewers with advance copies of the game didn't have this particular revision of the controller, and like I said it looks like the older model doesn't have this flaw.

    I've heard EA's RMA is at this point cross-shipping new parts if you give them a credit card number with no questions asked. I think most of you can figure out if your guitar has a problem pretty easily, but I'd recommend you get your drums tested. You're going to be very pissed off in another few months when you can't play Don't Fear the Reaper on Expert drums because of defective hardware.

  29. #29
    New Romantic
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    7,759
    I really can't follow what you're describing. Can you post pics?

  30. #30
    Account closed World's End Supernova
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Boletaria, Gamertag: Ben Sones PSN: bsones
    Posts
    20,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Long
    I finally played around with the Rock Band guitar at Best Buy last night and it was clearly broken. Probably a similar problem to what Ben had, but it really made me a lot less interested in ever getting this game.
    That would be a shame, because this game is awesome.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •