I'm going to have to break out my Bloo spray next time we're on a server together, just to fuck with people's heads.
You have to go to the client->settings->friends, I think. There's no option ingame that I know of.Originally Posted by bloo
While you're there I recommend that everyone append qt3 or PoE (if appropriate) to your handle. I keep forgetting people's names.
Last edited by Iron Xides; 10-28-2007 at 12:00 AM.
Some pretty cool videos:
Sticky bomb jumping tricks (they call them pipe jumping, but isn't that the other bombs?). Apparently the long distances come from a carefully timed brief duck. I've done that with the rocket launcher before, but not so much with the stickies.
Spy HowTo Guide -- love the high production on this, very informative too!
In QWTF, the bombs you could lay out and detonate were pipe bombs, I think. Perhaps a carry over from that.
That Spy video is great. It seems like the Spy has more to learn than any other class.
I feel like you have to be aware of so many more factors as a spy than any other class. There are some basic tactical decisions you'll make as anyone, like "Don't run around that corner, they set up a sentry", but as a Spy you've got so much more going on that will affect your effectiveness. I'm always much more tense playing as a spy, and I think it's because you have to be twice as good, in a way.
With most classes, you have to get good at something. Killing people. Killing people in a different way. Capturing, defending. You generally don't have to be good at something else entirely to arrive at those situations where your skill is tested.
If, as a soldier, I'm on my way to a capture point, and I run into another soldier, we shoot at each other. I hope I kill him, but if he kills me, well, that's ok. At least I got a chance to do what I was there to do in the first place, I just screwed up or he's just better.
As a spy, I've got to develop an entire skill set just to avoid people and stay alive long enough to get into position and then do what I'm actually there for, some strategic assassinations or equipment sabotage. If my cover is blown somewhere useless in the middle of the map, even if I manage to still kill whoever found me, it's a setback. Now they're expecting a spy, I've got to rethink things, I may have to backtrack and shake any witnesses, and the fact that I killed a guy is no big deal because if we just needed to kill people out in the middle of the map, I'd have picked a different class.
It's really disheartening to be killed as a spy long before I'm a position to do what I came to do. The flip side is how satisfying it is to get in the enemy's head and totally fool them of course, but those extremes of satisfaction and feeling completely useless to your team make the spy kind of exhausting to play.
Maybe I'm just terrible, I don't know.
I agree with the whole spy-is-exhausing theme. I played one for a long time last Friday and got a good feel for him, was around the middle of the pack for points...had some very good games and some crap ones...but it takes a lot more strategy for sure. I really enjoy it..but after I've had too much, I jump on the sniper for a relaxing kick back time.
I think that's what makes the Spy such a beautiful class to play in TF2. With or without the spy, the game that revolves most every other class is really a fast-paced team deathmatch.
Playing the spy, on the other, feels like an entirely different game. It's as if someone snuck "Sam Fisher" into a quake game and let him go to town. The beauty of it is that it really doesn't unbalance the game at all. The spy might be the catalyst that tips the scales of battle, but he is only one of many other such factors.
As exhausting as he is to play, and as nuanced as his tactics need to be, he can ultimately be the most satisfying class if you've managed to pull of all his tactics for any length of time in a match. He's really a whole new game in a really good one.
I also suck at him, but with the video, I'm inspired to practice more.
Here's my stats
http://steamcommunity.com/id/downtown1/stats/TF2
76???
Was the other team complete noobs?
I played last night and found that the effectiveness of sentry guns decreased. When TF2 came out it was mostly spies, but now there are more skilled demomans who can take one out real fast. I am starting to think that they should be moved regularly around even before they are destroyed.
Last edited by marxeil; 10-30-2007 at 01:35 AM. Reason: Oh my, spelling
Igor forgot you don't gain ranks like BF2.
He paid that chinese kid for nothing!
Keeping sentry guns alive requires a lot of teamwork, actually. The ones that fall the fastest are put down regardless of their teammates' position.
Since I've started playing, everytime I've been on Granary the opposing team has always tried to scout rush the first control point. Maybe this also used to be more effective, but this is one fight I always win with a few sticky bombs.
A couple of times while playing as a pyro I was able to take out the sentry gun. My trick was to position myself so that the dispenser the engy set up was between me and the gun. Flame on and they all died and I didn't get hurt. The trick then, is to get there without dying.
Unless the whole team scout rushes, I've found the best way is to be a pyro. You run at a good speed and when you get there the flame is best for clearing everyone out. I've defended the cap point from 4 scouts (it was a hair from capping) by running in there and setting them all on fire. I died, but they were softened up and my teammates came in behind me to finish it off and cap it.
Man, I stop playing for a week (playing EVE) and I come back to so many god damn awesome players rocket jumping and bouncing all over the show, capping my ass. Sad one for me!
Yeah dude, I'm with you. It felt like I was doing better than average when I was playing beta, and maybe for the first week or two after release. Now, I feel like a total schmuck, it's just like CS.
I'm calling people cheaters when I die from crazy aim and everything.
I feel like I'm better than average when I pick up any FPS from a starting point, but I never actually 'learn' nuances of the games, so I always end up getting my ass kicked by the other people that can learn that crap.
So, checking out that helpful video, I decided to give up being a Demoman and Scout for a bit and give an honest to goodness real attempt at playing the Spy.
I'm noticing a few things though that are really setting me back. First off, how the hell do you become good at backstabbing people? That video made it look deceptively easy. I can't backstab anyone for the life of me. I got in like 2 backstabs once before I died and I considered that very successful (a heavy and a medic). Any FPS-meister worth his salt will strafe all over the place making it nearly impossible to stabinate them though. I find it's easier if I jump right before I stab so that my hand grip switches to that downward position (sometimes?!) indicating it's ready for insta-kill mode. Am I just supposed to pick stationary targets essentially? Because that makes the backstab skill useless in a high speed game like this one. Just by itself though, bringing a knife to a gun fight is pretty stupid.
Also, for sapping, do you press the right mouse button to set it off, once it's in place of course? I can always lay down a sap, but never set it off it seems. Maybe I'm just not paying attention to hints on screen or something.
Finally, what classes are best fit for the Spy while disguising? I imagine a Scout or a Medic as they move at the same pace. As far as I can tell, you move at the same speed as a Spy even in disguise as another class. Maybe that's not true. Are good spies able to mimic walk speed of other classes? Does it look like a mini-gun firing, when disguised as a Heavy, to the opposite team?
Basically, any help from a regular Spy player would be really helpful. I'd like to become good with him and a Scout or Demoman, so that I can be useful to the casual clan we're forming at work.
Don't be a Medic or a Scout. You move slower than a scout, and can't double jump, so a decent opponent will know you're not a real scout, because they're usually bouncing off the walls. And Medics are usually firing off their heal-gun at anyone on their team they run into, so if someone you're trying to fool sees a medic not trying to heal people, they'll be suspicious. Don't disguise yourself as an enemy spy, because there's almost zero reason for anyone to run around as an un-disguised spy.
You don't appear to be firing weapons to the other team, though I'm not sure what weapon it shows you holding, so disguising as a heavy somewhere in the front lines won't get you far either. Heavies are theoretically a defense class though, so if you're farther back behind enemy lines, you might be able to play yourself off as a heavy holding a choke point or something, though it might also look suspicious that you don't have your barrel spinning up. Pyros are always setting even their teammates on fire, so that's another one to avoid because you'll look suspicious not firing any weapons at all.
I'm pretty bad at stabbing moving targets myself. You think you've got them and you're just about to shiv in the back when he turns. Suddenly, you've lost your disguise and eating rockets for breakfast. I suppose this is practice.
Sapping takes life from the SGs and Disp over time. Just left click to place it and run. If the engineers knock it off before the Sap takes out the SGs, then it won't go off.Also, for sapping, do you press the right mouse button to set it off, once it's in place of course? I can always lay down a sap, but never set it off it seems. Maybe I'm just not paying attention to hints on screen or something.
It's best to sap SGs when the engineers aren't around. In a pitch battle, it's usually just to take the SGs out of the equation so your team can push forward.
Scout and Medic are actually the 2 worst classes for Spy. A medic that isn't constantly healing (no streaming out of his gun) is instantly suspicious and a scout that hangs out at the back is just out of place.Finally, what classes are best fit for the Spy while disguising? I imagine a Scout or a Medic as they move at the same pace. As far as I can tell, you move at the same speed as a Spy even in disguise as another class. Maybe that's not true. Are good spies able to mimic walk speed of other classes? Does it look like a mini-gun firing, when disguised as a Heavy, to the opposite team?
I find the best classes to disguise as is a Sniper, Demoman and an Engineer. These are classes that don't fire often, so it isn't that out of place when they look they're hanging back and not shooting.
A sniper will look sort of out of place if you're close to the front lines when you're doing your dirty work. I agree with Engineer and Demoman most often. I'd say a Soldier's just as good as a sniper if you need to switch it up beyond Eng and Demo. None of these are set in stone though, situations will arise where you can do things that would never otherwise work.
I've seen Heavies running around with three doctors in tow, tearing up a map. There are ways to deal with that that don't involve spies, but sometimes the teamwork's not there and you're just getting overwhelmed. In that case, you could probably spy as a Medic. With two or three others already bouncing around the Heavy shooting GetBetterRays all over the place, you can slip into the fray more easily and take out the Heavy at least.
ya, generally avoid going as medic, spy, scout or heavy. Personally i usually go between demoman and eng - with eng being preferred cause they're usually going towards their buildings anyways, so you dont look as suspicious. Though i have seen pyro work effectively as, i guess, people associate pyros with anti-spy and give them a bit of a leeway
Why doesn't scout work?
I already mentioned this, but you could also add that Scouts are the last people you'd ever expect to see moving in any way away from the front lines. They're usually pressing forward or dieing trying. Maybe a quick retreat to a nearby health kit or something, but never dancing around in the fray for any longer than they have to (which isn't long) or running back to an engineer's sentries for any reason.
My favorite is when a friendly scout runs into the flagroom in 2fort. Nope, that's not obvious at all. Or a sniper at full health running up behind a medic and spamming the medic key. Those two were my favorite idiot spies.
Ha. Well, the knife is the most powerful weapon in the game, bar none. There is a trick to backstabbing, and it's this: resist. For every good backstabbing oppourtunity, there are twenty tempting but ultimately suicidal ones. Just stay calm, bear in mind that you are perfectly disguised, and wait until the backmost person in a group stops or backs up. There's a longer delay than most people imagine, so never backstab unless you're sure the target will /still/ be right in front of you in a sec.
Scouts have more reason to run back and forth than anyone but the Engie - Medics rarely bother to heal them, but they're actually super-suvivable if they keep making runs back to medkits and Engy dispensers. All my good rounds as a Scout have consisted of repeated laps around the map, to exactly the places a Spy would like to be.
In theory the Scout is actually quite a good Spy disguise - few people notice the speed difference, and if you jump around the effect is weirdly convincing, even sans double-jump. People associate Spies with lurking.
In practise, though, it's the only disguise that's usually a bad idea right now. Because for some bizarre reason, it's the most common Spy disguise. Except in the early phases of Hydro and Granary, Spies disguised as Scouts are more common that Scouts themselves. They're so common that it's always worth shooting any Scouts you see, no matter how convincing. This is weird, and will hopefully die down eventually, but for now leave well alone except in the very early game.
Every other disguise has a valid use, whatever people may say about it. Don't trust logical conjecture, actually try them - some that shouldn't work really do. Remember that each time you die, someone on the enemy team just said "Spy as Engineer!" No-one says "I just killed that Spy as an Engineer, so no need to look out for Engie Spies any longer chaps." So you need to keep varying your cover, and forsaking half the classes doesn't help with that.
I stayed away from dressing as a Spy - you appear as a Spy with no disguise to the enemy team - right up until I spectated some noob doing it every single life. It worked, again and again. I don't think the guy even knew he had a Cloak mode, he just strolled into the enemy base with the rest of his team and let rip. The truth is most people don't notice the lack of mask, fewer still even realise that a Spy as Spy will appear that way, and even those that do are always going to fire at the definitely-enemy targets before they spy-check the one that looks like he's on their side.
The Medic's a good choice too. Don't hang around Heavies and Soldiers long, but if you keep moving and come from deep within their territory, he's such a reassuring sight that most people don't contemplate that he could be a Spy. You appear as a Medic with his syringe gun out, by the way, so it's not odd that you're not firing your healing ray. People just wonder where the enemy you're hunting is. The best thing about a Medic disguise, of course, is that everyone wants a Medic behind them, so they instinctively turn their backs to you.
The trick to pulling off any Spy disguise isn't about how you move, who you hang out near or where you come from. It's all in who you look at. You can pretend to be a Sniper right on the front line, and if you're squatted down staring intently at the blue team, even without firing, no-one will doubt you're on the red team. But if you're looking at the reds, you just /look/ like a Spy. People might not know how they know, but they won't stop spy-checking until you're down.
This is very true - the psychology of it is almost as potent as the medic's. Better still, you have an excuse to hang out in dark corners while your cloak recharges. Just make sure you're looking where an enemy Pyro would be looking for incoming players.
Last edited by Pentadact; 10-31-2007 at 02:09 AM.
I've been doing the spy as spy for a while, and it really is very effective, especially if I'm coming from deep in the base, or my favorite, running frantically from mine while being shot at. They just assume I'm a spy who got caught and managed to escape luckily, or that I'm waiting for the right spot to cloak so I don't lose the charge on the way over.
It's surprisingly effective.
Posted this in the costume thread, but I thought you guys might appreciate it.
Nice :)
New tf2 patch. nothing really notable, except some "anti-bunny hopping code". Woo, they implemented my hopping code! I'm published!!~
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