Soul Calibur 4

[RobotPants]

I've never had a good, smooth online experience with a fighting game or racing game. Racing games have gotten better simply because it's a little easier to predict where racers are going, but even the best ones still show warping or phantom crashes every now and then. Fighting games are just too reliant on getting the timing right on completely unpredictable actions between both players. As Reldan said, a lot of the blocks, parries, counters, etc are all decided in fractions of a second, which means even if you have a relatively perfect connection, the game still may or may not record your input at exactly the right time.

But that's neither here nor there for me, since I didn't buy SC4 for online play. I'm liking it a lot so far. The character creation thing is pretty cool, although there's very little documentation explaining what all the stats are doing and how you open up new abilities. I really really wish I could select "no voice" for my people, though. The limited selection are all really dumb and annoying and are made even worse by how many times they're repeated in battle. In fact, it's always been a pet peeve of mine for fighting games to have characters say one specific phrase during the different moves and almost all of them friggin' do it. Grunts and screams are sufficient, fighting game devs! Even worse, in SC4 the characters' stupid start/end-of-battle sayings step all over the announcer's stupid start/end-of-battle sayings, so you end up with a mish-mash of unintelligible audio stupidity.

[idrisz]

I gave up on the apprentice last night, just turned the console off. I havent been this pissed off this early on in a game in.. well ever. What REALLY pissed me off is the braindead menus which kept telling me that if I quit, no matter what I would chose, would lose all my unsaved progress. Well how about a fucking save option so I CAN quit and save the style points I earned (whatever the frig THEY are, good manual!) without actuall beating the mode I'm currently playing?

On ps3 version if you choose to quit after dying, it auto save after exit to menu all the style level you gained.

[Reldan]

I really really wish I could select "no voice" for my people, though. The limited selection are all really dumb and annoying and are made even worse by how many times they're repeated in battle. In fact, it's always been a pet peeve of mine for fighting games to have characters say one specific phrase during the different moves and almost all of them friggin' do it. Grunts and screams are sufficient, fighting game devs! Even worse, in SC4 the characters' stupid start/end-of-battle sayings step all over the announcer's stupid start/end-of-battle sayings, so you end up with a mish-mash of unintelligible audio stupidity.

It's been common practice here in the States to select "Japanese" voices for extended SC play. The voice acting is better, usually a bit more subdued, and most people can't tell what they are saying so it just blends in instead of feeling completely stupid ("DIE", "DIE", "CRUSH YOU!", "DIE", "JUST KIDDING!", "JUST KIDDING!", "DIE", etc...).

[slantz]

I'd have to imagine even the people who aren't big on split-second timing will notice how sluggish everything feels. There is absolutely no fluidity, grace, or charm with how online play works.

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has, under any circumstances, experienced online play that wasn't like this. I know that even with Tekken Online, sometimes if you were playing someone physically nearby and you both had great connections, it could occasionally provide at least a semblance of smooth playing

Nope -- no good online fighter experiences here. And I've been preaching for the last year that I don't see how it's mathematically possible until we somehow conquer lag entirely. Lag of some degree is tolerable. Surely everyone would agree that 1 millisecond lag is okay, and there are plenty of higher values that are fine too. It's just a question as to where it becomes noticable for any given game, and whether you can reliably get opponents below that threshold. It may work fine on college campuses now, but otherwise I think we'll have to wait for door-to-door fiber optics.

Anyway, I played online last night. And Reldan said it very poetically. It was sluggish, with delayed actions in many/most cases. There were also cases of pausing/stuttering, though nowhere near as bad as street fighter. Matches tended to devolve into one person spamming a quick (sometimes low) horizontal over and over again, with it being a guessing game of when they'd mix up to a throw or quick low or quick vertical. And guard impacting? Forget about it.

Online is absolutely nothing like real versus.

[Cubit]

hmm, i've played a few online games and haven't noticed much lag at all, or any slowdown for that matter. i guess mileage will vary

[MattKeil]

I'd have to imagine even the people who aren't big on split-second timing will notice how sluggish everything feels. There is absolutely no fluidity, grace, or charm with how online play works.

Plus connecting and loading up the match tends to take longer than the actual match.

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has, under any circumstances, experienced online play that wasn't like this.

Not really. Smash Bros. Brawl was decent, but split-second timing isn't really required in that one. SC4 is probably better overall than SSF2T on XBLA, as the lag on the latter is so bad that the Dragon Punch is rendered essentially useless. In order to use it as an anti-air defense, you have to start the motion before the opponent even leaves the ground, so you're limited to only using it in offensive combos. Or being psychic.

hmm, i've played a few online games and haven't noticed much lag at all, or any slowdown for that matter. i guess mileage will vary

No, the nature of current internet connections from homes means that mileage will not vary all that much. Like I said, some people will notice, some people will not, it depends on how you play and how much you know about the timing in the game. For someone like me who relies on guard impacts, split-second throws when an opening is available, and quick dodges to get out of the way of linear attacks, online is fundamentally broken.

[Jason Cross]

Anyone else having trouble doing the critical finishers? I've had my cpu opponent flash red a couple times, but whenever I try to press all four buttons at once I end up taunting or something equally useless :(

I haven't gotten a single CF to work yet. Several times the opponent has had a flashing red bar, and I've even had a flashing white fully charged soul meter some times. I tried hitting all four face buttons, and I've tried left bumper (which is mapped to A+B+G+K) and it never works. Not sure what's up with that.

Also - anyone have any advice for using Yoda's force parry move? The one where you put up that green shield (my poor memory tells me it's B+K)? No matter what, it doesn't seem to actually parry anything. If I do it on an unguarding opponent, it doesn't do any damage or push them back or anything at all. What the hell is it for? Do you have to GI with it?

[Wholly Schmidt]

I haven't gotten a single CF to work yet. Several times the opponent has had a flashing red bar, and I've even had a flashing white fully charged soul meter some times. I tried hitting all four face buttons, and I've tried left bumper (which is mapped to A+B+G+K) and it never works. Not sure what's up with that.

Also - anyone have any advice for using Yoda's force parry move? The one where you put up that green shield (my poor memory tells me it's B+K)? No matter what, it doesn't seem to actually parry anything. If I do it on an unguarding opponent, it doesn't do any damage or push them back or anything at all. What the hell is it for? Do you have to GI with it?

They have to get down to flashing red, then they have to actually try to block a move at which point they're stunned and you can do it. Flashing red bar doesn't mean it's time to do it, it just means they're in trouble if they block again.

[ravenight]

Well, considering moves are in the 200-350ms range and latency even on a good connection tends to be in the high double-digits, you are not really going to be able to time things well on an internet connection.

I'd be curious, though, if anyone who has noticed the problem of having a really hard time recovering in the middle of a string of attacks by an opponent has tried it face-to-face. My housemate and I have played an awful lot of SC over the years, so we are pretty used to the timing of hit recovery, but SC4 definitely seems to have messed with it - it seems much easier to string together a series of unblocked attacks with the opponent not really being able to respond or just hold block to eventually stop the attacks.

[Cubit]

Well, considering moves are in the 200-350ms range and latency even on a good connection tends to be in the high double-digits, you are not really going to be able to time things well on an internet connection.

This being the case, how does SCIV timing compare to the other 360/ps3 online fighting games? virtua fighter, doa, ect...

[slantz]

hmm, i've played a few online games and haven't noticed much lag at all, or any slowdown for that matter. i guess mileage will vary

Just out of curiosity, have you played much versus-mode with someone on the same TV?

[Cubit]

Just out of curiosity, have you played much versus-mode with someone on the same TV?

Honestly, not too much. I've played mostly online versus and multiplayer in games recently, so that is all I can compare it to.

[slantz]

Oh, and if anyone wants to play on PS3, my PS gamertag thing is 'slantz'. Feel free to toss me a friend invite, and preferably tell me your username on Qt3. I'm not hyped about playing online given my experiences, but I'd rather wade through the lag with someone I (sorta) know as opposed to someone I don't.

My housemate and I have played an awful lot of SC over the years, so we are pretty used to the timing of hit recovery, but SC4 definitely seems to have messed with it - it seems much easier to string together a series of unblocked attacks with the opponent not really being able to respond or just hold block to eventually stop the attacks.

You know, it's funny. If I'm understanding you correctly, I had the opposite impression.

I played some local vs. yesterday, and it was a block fest. We were landing many fewer unblocked hits than in SC3. And throw range seems to have been reduced a bit too, so we seem less able to mix throws into our barrages, which in turn means an even harder time dealing damage.

We also felt like the overall pace/speed of the game was slowed down a little, but perhaps that feeling was just a side-effect of us blocking so much. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did slow it down a bit -- that would help hide some of the negative effects of online lag.

Oh, and add me to the list of people who still hasn't gotten a single CF to work yet. I've had like 5 sources (forum posts, hint book, etc.) spell it out for me, each in slightly different ways. And yet nothing I've tried works.

Do you activate it after any hit against a blocking opponent when their bar is flashing red? Do you have to activate it after some specific special move, or class of moves, when their bar is flashing? Do you need to knock off their armor first? Do you need to knock their armor off in a specific way? (Armor seems to fall off from at least 3 different circumstances... repeated hitting in one spot, a soul crush somehow related to that damn red gem, or just dumb luck as evidenced by a 2nd-hit-of-the-round shatter when both hits were fast/weak strikes.) Is knocking off armor counter-productive? (I've read it resets the gem to blue, which seems it would keep me from doing the insta-kill.)

I feel like the mechanic is a bust if you have so many people, many of them fighting-genre vets, who can't figure out how the damn things works.

[slantz]

Honestly, not too much. I've played mostly online versus and multiplayer in games recently, so that is all I can compare it to.

Yeah, my guess is that, as Matt was saying, it may be a case of you not knowing what you're missing. In my experience, the online play might be fine for what it is (especially if that's all you've known), but it's like playing an entirely different game than couch-based versus with players good enough to use that stuff.

I'd be really interested in knowing whether you're seeing many successful sidesteps-with-retaliation or guard impacts online. Those are crucial to playing the game locally and in tournaments, but seem almost impossible online.

[BDGE]

Oh, and add me to the list of people who still hasn't gotten a single CF to work yet. I've had like 5 sources (forum posts, hint book, etc.) spell it out for me, each in slightly different ways. And yet nothing I've tried works.

I did it once last night against the AI in Story mode. Was messing around with Talim and the enemy kept blocking every attack combo, eventually the gem started flashing red and I began spamming the 4 buttons(which didn't work), so I then kept mashing away with attacks and eventually after multiple blocks there was a "Guard Break", the enemy was stunned for a moment and I quickly hit the 4 buttons and it worked.

Supposedly the guide says it will only work if you Soul Crush the enemy(still have no clue WTF that is!), but Guard breaks, Guard Impacts, and certain heavy hits will cause the stun animation during a red gem to allow the CF.

I dunno, I think the whole system is retarded. I do like the armor breaking though, but the implementation needs tooling.

[Reldan]

Oh, and if anyone wants to play on PS3, my PS gamertag thing is 'slantz'. Feel free to toss me a friend invite, and preferably tell me your username on Qt3. I'm not hyped about playing online given my experiences, but I'd rather wade through the lag with someone I (sorta) know as opposed to someone I don't.


You know, it's funny. If I'm understanding you correctly, I had the opposite impression.

I played some local vs. yesterday, and it was a block fest. We were landing many fewer unblocked hits than in SC3. And throw range seems to have been reduced a bit too, so we seem less able to mix throws into our barrages, which in turn means an even harder time dealing damage.

We also felt like the overall pace/speed of the game was slowed down a little, but perhaps that feeling was just a side-effect of us blocking so much. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did slow it down a bit -- that would help hide some of the negative effects of online lag.

Oh, and add me to the list of people who still hasn't gotten a single CF to work yet. I've had like 5 sources (forum posts, hint book, etc.) spell it out for me, each in slightly different ways. And yet nothing I've tried works.

Do you activate it after any hit against a blocking opponent when their bar is flashing red? Do you have to activate it after some specific special move, or class of moves, when their bar is flashing? Do you need to knock off their armor first? Do you need to knock their armor off in a specific way? (Armor seems to fall off from at least 3 different circumstances... repeated hitting in one spot, a soul crush somehow related to that damn red gem, or just dumb luck as evidenced by a 2nd-hit-of-the-round shatter when both hits were fast/weak strikes.) Is knocking off armor counter-productive? (I've read it resets the gem to blue, which seems it would keep me from doing the insta-kill.)

I feel like the mechanic is a bust if you have so many people, many of them fighting-genre vets, who can't figure out how the damn things works.

The opponent actually has to get stunned, which happens a bit after the flashing red. There will be a visual cue for the Soul Crush, I think it was like a red electricity stun, and that's when you have to hit all 4 buttons. I've gotten this to work exactly once so far, and it was against the computer. I think if you hit them with a non-CF attack during the stun you knock them out of it and they get a bunch of soul charge back.

And yeah, the game is slowed down a bit. Movement is a bit slower, in general range has been reduced as well.

[BDGE]

Started the Tower of Lost Souls mode which is a decent enough replacement for the previous weapon master modes in past games. Fight lots of goofy custom fighters under adverse conditions and unlock custom gear for special win conditions...ok!

Oh wait, floor 11 asks me to Critical Finish all 4 opponents you face in a row for the bonus unlockable...FUCK!

[Reldan]

It occurs to me that playing dressup with the characters would be more fun if there was some way to actually take your character with you to play other people.

[Rock8man]

It occurs to me that playing dressup with the characters would be more fun if there was some way to actually take your character with you to play other people.

So you can't put it on a memory card as part of the Soul Calibur save game files?

[Reldan]

So you can't put it on a memory card as part of the Soul Calibur save game files?

Even if this were possible, my joystick does not have the slot for a memory card. I assume PS3 owners are just hosed completely on this front.

[MattKeil]

A PS3/360 game that doesn't display in full 1080p? I am shocked, sirs!

[Matt Bowyer]

You can save a PS3 game on any USB drive and take it with you, right? I've moved roster files for NCAA onto my PS3 using that method.

[slantz]

Even if this were possible, my joystick does not have the slot for a memory card. I assume PS3 owners are just hosed completely on this front.

Well, normal 360 and PS3 controllers don't have slots for memory cards either. USB keys are the way that data is moved around on the PS3.

That said, I thought someone earlier in the thread said that you couldn't move data around. I have no idea if that's true -- haven't tried it.

[ZekeDMS]

That would be a shame, given the customization focus. I'd think a USB copy option would be great onto thumb drives.

Also, who decided that along with a horrible short and un-storyfied story mode, arcade mode should always have the apprentice as fight 7?

Yeah, it's a good fight, but when you fight the same fucking guy every time, it wears thin. I do prefer the days of Inferno for final bosses in Soul Calibur, then I got some variety with it.

Also, an apparent lack of difficulty adjustment, and a really shorted museum mode frustrates me.

The game itself, especially two player, is as good as it ever was, but the single player content and extra content is massively lacking. I shouldn't be spending most of my time in 1p vs CPU vs mode.

[slantz]

So is tag-team mode available in multiplayer? Or is it just a feature of the various single-player modes?

Because I'm frustrated to think it's going to be sold later as DLC...

[Kadath]

On ps3 version if you choose to quit after dying, it auto save after exit to menu all the style level you gained.

Pretty sure all 4 options told me if I quit it wouldnt save...

[idrisz]

Pretty sure all 4 options told me if I quit it wouldnt save...

I don't think you will save your progress in the story/arcade mode, but you will get some money and save whatever style you already leveled up when you exit.

[RobotPants]

The 18 to 20F Tower mission is fuck-fuckingly frustrating.

[Adree]

Some of the story mode endings are hilarious. Especially Amy's. (Beat it with Raphael first for full effect)

[ZekeDMS]

I did really, really love Cassandra's ending. Where the other endings and character background for Algol and all start to hint at that, the true nature of things, Cassandra sees it, and resolves it. It strikes me as what may end up being the actual story ending this time around.