Teaching Degree

[Kalle]

I have two younger sisters, so I have some knowledge of what having kids is like. They can be pests when they want to, and yes, I've had the urge to smack them at times. That does not mean I should act on it, or that it is by any means the right thing to do.

The threat of physical abuse is a regime based on fear. The whole idea is that the kids should fear the punishment, otherwise it's just a mindless infliction of pain! And besides that, explain to me why it's ok to hit a defenseless child when doing the same to an adult can earn you that prison sentance you fear.

My dad hit me a couple of times when I was growing up. I was always terrified of him when he did. And I hated him for it each and every time. I was defenseless, alone and the man who I looked to for protection was harming me. I never experienced a worse injustice as a child.

Physical punishment of one so defenseless, and I will stress that word, as your own child who is so utterly dependant on you is an abomination.

That does not mean I oppose discipline, I feel the same way as you do about kids given no boundaries. But physical abuse should never be used to promote discipline.

[AIM]

Off topic but...

Hitting a child = Child abuse.

Says the ADD/HD kid who told his teacher to fuck off and caused a teacher to cry.
Sounds like you're carrying a few scars from the past. Or maybe you weren't thrashed enough when you were young. :wink:
BTW, I'll threaten my 3 year old son with a smack if he gets out of line. Sometimes you don't have the luxury of time or patience to do the counselling thing. Good thing he hasn't called my bluff yet.
Makes you wonder how parents in the past ever managed to bring up polite, responsible children with those old fashioned models of discipline. Compared to the much better manners displayed by today's generation.....NOT!

Eh... I'm not carrying any scars. You live and you learn as I've grown up a bit. I'll admit that I was a aweful kid in the past, but that's behind me. I've even contacted that past teacher who I made cry and told her that I was sorry for my rotten behavior. You can only move forward.

:D

[Anders Hallin]

So, say your child stabbed the teacher at school with a pencil? How would you deal with this?

The hard part is probably simulating "the hole" and of course that ever popular "prison gang rape". :D

[John Merva]

So, say your child stabbed the teacher at school with a pencil? How would you deal with this?

I'd go round and beat up the teacher. She/he must have done something to provoke my sweet, charming, friendly, outgoing, GSOH, beautiful little spoilt brat.

[XPav]

My dad hit me a couple of times when I was growing up. I was always terrified of him when he did. And I hated him for it each and every time. I was defenseless, alone and the man who I looked to for protection was harming me. I never experienced a worse injustice as a child.

I never got hit as a kid. I got spanked a few times, but never hit. I saw a dad who hit his kid once and I was shocked. I mean, stand up, smack you on the side of the face fallover on the floor thing.

[TimElhajj]

I'd like to hear more about this (honestly). What are good strategies for getting a child to realise the consequences of his actions? I say this because it seems like a good goal, but it's hard to see how you would go about this.

The idea is pretty straight forward. It takes a little extra effort to realize what the logical consequences of a particular action should be, and then to articulate that to the child. But it beats using something like, "No TV for a week" simply because the child loves to watch TV.

For a real world example, occasionally my child won't get dressed quickly in the morning and we're late for school. The LC of her decision to mess around is that she doesn't get to participate in "morning circle" or have a chance to be the "special helper."

So, say your child stabbed the teacher at school with a pencil? How would you deal with this?

I imagine the LC would be that the student was suspended from school, earned the enimity of the teacher, or was not allowed to participate in art class. Whatever it is, that's what it is. I guess the bigger point is that you wouldn't, say, hire an art tutor so that the child would not have to live with the consequences of their actions.

[Gav]

I'm also a big believer in this method, but up to a point, and Tim's example brings up the good and the bad of the method.

It's good b/c it establishes a clear link between the behavior and the result, so the next time you can say, "Remember what happened the last time you messed around in the morning."

But what if the kid wants to be late for school? (Luckily that hasn't happened with my kids yet, but that day might come...) This applies to just about any action where there is no bad consequence from the kid's perspective. What if he's hitting his brother who's too young to hit back? You pretyy much have to have some sort of un-related punishment, even if it's as simple as a toungue-lashing. (I mean, it's related, but a toungue-lashing isn't a logical consequence of hitting someone).

What if it's going to make me late for a meeting at work--then I have to suffer from his logical consequence? (this one has happened to me)

And then there are some things where the connection is tenuous (you'll get sick if you do xyz--but it'll happen a few days later) or the consequence is too drastic ("don't run into the road without looking" is the obvious one here).


Gav

[SpoofyChop]

Hitting a child should never be tolerated in this day an age. That's why people need to learn behavior techniques to deal with unruly children. You punish a child by taking away what they love to do, instead of using physical abuse.

This idea is incredibly simplistic.

A safe and reasonable amount of punishment can teach a child valuable lessons. An unsafe or unreasonable amount of punishment can scar a child no matter what form the punishment takes.

You can seriously fuck a kid up by "simply" taking away what they love to do. Ex: They love light? Lock them in a windowless room for an hour with no lights! Also...blare really loud music that they don't like into the darkened room...especially if they love silence.

Corporal punishment is not automatically abuse. Mental punishment isn't either. It depends on the form and severity of the punishment.

[Ben Sones]

You can seriously fuck a kid up by "simply" taking away what they love to do. Ex: They love light? Lock them in a windowless room for an hour with no lights! Also...blare really loud music that they don't like into the darkened room...especially if they love silence.

Lots of children like not having broken legs. I'm just sayin'.

[TimElhajj]

Gav, in situations like the one you describe where you're late for work, or when the consequences are not immediately obvious, you just have to have set some ground rules ahead of time. In our house the rule is the kids don't cross the street alone. If they break the rule, then they might not be allowed in the front yard (closest to the street). Same with being late for work (this came up in our house, too). As it turned out, we all had to start getting up a little earlier so my daughter had more time to get dressed.

I'm the first to agree it's no silver bullet. I think the idea is you have to spend more time doing this, negotiating, etc., if you're really on board with treating the kids with some respect. The problem is it takes a lot of effort and ingenuity. It’s much easier to just say No TV across the board, or smack the kids.

[Met_K]

Gee, this is a debate of the mindless. Maybe, just maybe, you staunch supporters of either side should look deep into your hearts and souls (and possibly minds, if you can find that organ for the taking) and realize that HUMANITY HAS BEEN TRYING TO RAISE KIDS FOR THREE THOUSAND YEARS. That's at _least_ how long we know of. In a 'modern' sense of the word.

Physical punishment doesn't work, it's been proven. Mental punishment doesn't work, it's been proven. Everything's been fucking proven. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, however you punish your child has a likelyhood of screwing with the kid's head?

I don't think a child should ever be slapped, but spanked? That's nothing. Twisting a kid's mind as punishment is a million times worse than spanking. Get picked on as a child and you turn into a transvestite if the girls don't like you; Get beat up and you turn into a withdrawn psychopath who's afraid of the world. Or maybe you turn buff and into a wife-beater for all the resentment you have built up towards the bullies who beat you up.

One method is not better than the other. This is the Earth, folks, no matter what you do there are consequences. Physical or mental, they both can be said to be wrong or right, so don't try preaching one or the other as being the one true way. It just makes you look like an idiot who's never raised a child.

Edit: As Tim pointed out, treating a child with respect and working with them is the best way, which could be said to be moderation of both aspects of 'punishment.' Discipline and the ability to communicate and work is the best solution, but I just absolutely cannot believe that some people say that crossing a kid's slate off on anything entertaining when they lie or that spanking them when they break a remote intentionally is bad. Hi, ok guys! Let's let our kids grow up to be absolute jerks because you let them run your life. Kthx.

[Dirt]

there is one irrefutable truth: kids have to be punished. how you do that is up to you. i don't tell you how to raise your kids, don't tell me how to raise mine.

[Rywill]

there is one irrefutable truth: kids have to be punished. how you do that is up to you. i don't tell you how to raise your kids, don't tell me how to raise mine.

Sure. Set them on fire if you like. Anything goes!

[Dirt]

"Sure. Set them on fire if you like. Anything goes!"

I repeat: I don't tell you how to raise your kids, don't tell me how to raise mine.

[Rywill]

Whoa. Guess I can't argue with that. Good show!

[voltaic]

The problem is that "abuse" is a hard to define word. Like "pornography". We know it when we see it, but we can't really put words to it. Equating "a spanking" with putting cigarettes out on a kid's leg is a ludicrous and baseless emotional appeal.