Realisticly ejecting camera covers sure does sound like fun.Originally Posted by *IX*Aszurom
I've been fiddling with SP3 from the Superpak team for a few days now. I must say, it's been quite some while since I fiddled with Falcon4 - mainly because of the hassle of messing with F4Patch and all the little addons and such.
Well, now that these guys have had the source code for a while, they're making the game do some really incredible things. Of note right off the bat is that the manual of changes is 180+ pages long. For example, before you can shoot a heatseeker at someone, you have to be aware of the cooling state of the seeker head on your missile. There's a switch now to pump freeze-juice into them to prep for firing - and you only have a limited supply of it.
Another startling thing is that employment of AGM-65 Mavericks is a good bit more realistic. You have to manually switch on the missile's nose camera, and link it to the radar, then manually eject the protective lens cover off of it - or be puzzled why you can't see anything, like I was for quite a while.
There's a new TFR (terrain following radar) mode, and it works sweetly. Additionally, the falcon has been brought up "in general" to a much more recent version - as all the MFD displays are in full color now. No longer does it feel like flying a 1980's bird.
Falcon with the SP applied to it is a standard package now, and from what I understand the multiplayer is MUCH improved.
The big issue facing me now is not only having to relearn all the skills I had previously spent so many hours developing to play this game, but now also having to deal with 180 pages of "additional realism". However, to a flying masochist like myself, that's a selling point, not a detriment.
Anybody interested in flying this thing cooperatively a night or two a week for a while? I'd certainly like to learn the new systems with the help of someone who is pretty decent with the sim.
Realisticly ejecting camera covers sure does sound like fun.Originally Posted by *IX*Aszurom
Oh Jason, don't pick that fight - even jokingly. A cloud of simmers will parachute in here and little will be left of you. They'll carve "hardcore" into your besmirched corpse. :-)
Anyway, honestly, I do like the game to be as "real" as it can be. Why? Because if I wanted to fly and not learn anything about the actual aircraft, then I'd fire up Crimson Skies or (pick a Novalogic title). Not that I don't dearly love a nice sim-lite, but when I play this bad-boy, I want to work for it.
Uh, how is that picking a fight? He's making a totally valid observation, which is that for him, taking a lens cap off of a camera on an airplane may be the best realism there is, but it sure isn't fun. I doubt a cloud of simmers is going to convince him otherwise.Originally Posted by *IX*Aszurom
"Fun" isn't a valid metric for anything other than your own little world. For instance, you can't dispute any of the following: "Trading Pokemon cards is fun". "Being named McCullough is fun". "Shaving flesh off the back of my calf with a cheese grater is fun".Realisticly ejecting camera covers sure does sound like fun.
However, I understand what Jason's getting at. He obviously doesn't play realistic flight sims. Fine. Most people don't. That why their idea of "fun" isn't downloading and learning the latest realism patch/SuperPak for Falcon4.0. Some of us, however, enjoy learning how actual systems work and playing a sim accordingly.
I haven't fiddled with the latest SuperPak yet, but there's a definite place for it in the gaming community, just like there's a definite place for all those hunting sims, 80+ hour-long console RPGs, and a half dozen more expansion packs for The Sims.
Not only that, I don't see how anyone else thinks it's fun either. Some realistic stuff can be fun (limited cooling supply for the missiles), but how they hell is ejecting camera lens caps fun?Originally Posted by Dr Fear
Maybe this is the difference. I've never wanted to learn anything from my games.Because if I wanted to fly and not learn anything about the actual aircraft
Sometimes I think Serious Sam might teach me how to play the later levels of Robotron better - that game gets tough.I've never wanted to learn anything from my games.
The big question: Is the stuff like Sidewinder cooling OPTIONAL, or does everyone have to play with that level of detail to use the patches?
I'm a hardcore simmer, but that sounds a bit extreme to me. If I wanted that level of detail I'd joined the USAF. But I would appreciate the bug fixes and other improvements.
Do you get the choice of "buggy original F4" or hardcore "12 steps to start the engine F4" only? Or is there a happy middle ground?
/me perched on fence, about to watch this ensuing firefight :DOriginally Posted by Jason McCullough
Here Jason, I 'av a pair of asbestos knickers if you want 'em
It's a damn wierd game; the only way to clear out the hordes of skeletons on the highest difficulty is to circle strafe in place while swinging the knife. Mind you, don't actually aim at anything, just swing. If you circle-strafe at just the right angle, they'll leap across your field of view over and over, and you can take out 30 of them without getting hit.Originally Posted by Erik
Ok, now THAT sounds fun! *the only way to clear out the hordes of skeletons on the highest difficulty is to circle strafe in place while swinging the knife. Mind you, don't actually aim at anything, just swing.
* not really.
Anyway, I had to take that shot... you left me no choice, man. Glad you're a good sport about dropping the soap for me. :-)
So - your point, and those of anybody who isn't attracted to the whole realism fetish simulations scene is a perfectly valid one to me. Honestly, that's why I can only take them in periodic doses. I'll fire up Falcon and fly it to the exclusion of everything else for a month, and then put it on the shelf for 6 months. That's when I'll play some IL2 or Crimson Skies... UT2003 is coming out. That sort of thing.
IL2 came out late last year, and I played it until my trigger finger bled. I give it about a week's worth of time each time there's a new patch/plane set released, but I've been playing "everything else" lately. So, I've started watching the impending "Strike Fighters" and "Lock On" and am looking forward to the addon for IL2 now also... and what pushed me over the edge was seeing a review of the CH USB pro throttle. That just "did it" and I had to install a sim again. I went looking for falcon patches, and I was dreading the nightmare that summons up - and found that SP3 was out. I was overjoyed, and cast into a state of awe at what these guys have accomplished with a 4 year old game. Honestly, in its current state, I'd have bought it all over again and considered it the modern epitome of what could be accomplished in a sim - yes, they did their modding that well.
Now, as for will this stuff work with the realism turned down... well, yes and no. You can turn down everything but the avionics systems realism, and you'll do fine. However, when you start cutting the avionics back (and admittedly, that is the heart of the difficulty in this game) you start dropping cool features in droves. So, I personally can't play it that way due to my gadget fetish. However, the stability and bug fixes are all still present.
Now, if Derek could give me avionics like this in the fighters in BCM...
I didn't say it was *fun* to do that; it's pretty damn tedious. So there.Originally Posted by *IX*Aszurom
Ok, I'll let you have that... but I'm getting the last word in. Granted, having to hit "U" to uncage the seeker head is more effort and to most people a "petty detail" when you look at the overall game. However, the beast that is Falcon4.3 is built upon the foundation of a zillion petty details. It's a case of "ooh... they put THAT in there?! Wow." for me. For 99% of the world, it's more like "What's the point of that? Let me pull the trigger dammit!" and I can understand that.
I have a bookshelf that is filled with aircraft manuals. I have about $600 worth of joystick stuff on my desk. I have to justify owning that shit somehow... thus I play flight sims. It's like owning a Ferrari... you have to drive it fast, or your friends will laugh at you. :-)
Maybe if it was presented as a skeet shoot. You know, "pull!" then shoot the pesky little buggers out of the sky. I am also reminded of the WW2 online mock readme with the "clean grenade with moist towel" key.but how they hell is ejecting camera lens caps fun?
[quote="*IX*Aszurom"].....don't tempt me IX :lol:Now, if Derek could give me avionics like this in the fighters in BCM...
In case you didn't know (since Denny Atkin et al probably didn't spill the beans), I do plan on releasing real-world units addon for a future BC title (probably BCG) and we've already built about 18 aircrafts, ranging from an F4 fighter down to a B1B bomber - complete with cockpits. I think there are some shots on my site. Just last week (Aeyes sent in the F22 pits).
No way in hell am I going to sit down and do real-world avionics for any of them. That, in itself, would be pure madness. Just ask the Project 1 and/or IL2 folks :)
The whole idea behind F4 was the realistic nature of the sim. IMO, them modeling this little titbit just adds to the immersion. It wasn't designed to augment the fun factor, but rather to add to the realism.Originally Posted by wumpus
Yeah, I too was quite surprised that they went that far, actually. But then again, I read the 180 page manual post-haste as soon as I installed. So, unlike some lazy friends we know (hint:#9), it did'nt come as a surprise. :)
Hrm... Derek plays Falcon?
My god, man, when do you find time? If you're interested, I'll fly with ya some time. Haven't had a chance to mess with the "super improved multiplayer" yet. :-)
heh, I'm a hard core simmer, man. Always have been.Originally Posted by *IX*Aszurom
Sure thing!! Drop me an email and we'll set it up. I'll host.
I usually play games on weekends....when I'm not at the movies or lazing about at the pool with my toddler. When the latest F4 hack came out, I just had to have it. I think I pissed around with it for about three hours straight!! I don't remember spending that much time in one sitting with IL2.