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Thread: NWN2 : Camera views from hell

  1. #1
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    NWN2 : Camera views from hell

    I've been playing NWN2 recently and for the most part it's a great game. But I am having a hell of a time trying to find a camera view I am comfortable with or be able to configure the way I want it.

    Maybe I have been spoilt by WoW's great mouselook interface. Has anyone else settled on a decent method for setting the camera views in NWN2 ?

  2. #2
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    When I was playing it, I wanted to use the "from behind" camera that KOTOR used but the camera just spazzed out indoors. I ended up using the over head view zoomed out as far as possible.

  3. #3
    Account closed World's End Supernova
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    For starters, don't even try to play it like WoW. I know the new "see to the horizon" game engine makes it seem like more of a WoW-like first/third-person game, but the game (and especially the camera) is essentially still a 3/4-view overhead game at heart. It's best not to fight it. Here are the camera tips I sent our weekly gaming group after ourfirst NWN session:

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    I get the feeling that because the game now allows you to nose
    up the camera until you can see the horizon, you guys are trying to make
    it work like WoW's camera. This will make you sad pandas, because
    although they have tried to shoehorn that functionality into the game,
    they did a crappy job of it. They probably shouldn't have even tried,
    because let's face it--the game was obviously designed to be played from
    a 3/4 overhead view, Diablo-style (click to move). I've been playing from about this angle:

    http://www.odditorium.net/NWN002.jpg

    ...which allows you to see pretty far, but still keeps the camera at a useably high angle.

    The camera still has some issues--most notably the fact that interior walls (and some exterior objects) don't fade out and sometimes obstruct your view. So you'll need to rotate the camera around frequently (and sometimes tilt it farther up, especially when indoors) to see your surroundings. Additionally, the mouse wheel zooming is way too sensitive, and rotating and tilting by moving your mouse to the edges of the screen is way too slow. With those limitations in mind, I spent some time messing with it, and I think I have found a setup that works pretty well.

    First, open the options menu and make sure that you have the camera in its default (top-down camera) mode. While you are there, crank the mouse wheel sensitivity all the way down (it's still too sensitive, but this helps a little). There's also a slider for how quickly the camera rotates; crank that one all the way up.

    For rotating, zooming, and tilting, I strongly recommend using the keyboard rather than mousing to the edge of the screen (or using the mouse wheel). The keyboard camera controls are actually pretty quick and responsive; I recommend mapping them to the WASD keys, since you'll be using them a lot. The character "driving" controls are worthless anyway (especially given the crappiness of the "chase" camera mode), so just leave them unmapped and use the mouse to move. I have my A and D keys set to rotate the camera left and right, the W and S keys tilt up and down, and the Q and E keys zoom in and out. Seriously, try it. It makes the camera much easier to manage.

  4. #4
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    The camera and UI, in general, blows. It's really annoying when I try to click on an NPC or something and rather than interacting with it my character runs 20 yards past it. I shouldn't have to pause the game just to successfully talk to an NPC.

    I generally like the game, but there have been so many times when I've thought "Why can't this work like WoW?"

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    I like the game too, but reading the beta patch bug fix list- I'm waiting for the next patch to continue. the middle mouse camera move is so spazzy it makes me sick. And yeah the click run past person 20 yards just suck- esp when you are playing a mage and are clicking something to cast at.
    My guys are hanging out in the outpost by the starting town, waiting on the fixes until then.

  6. #6
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    Try the beta patch. Improves the camera and overall performance. After using it, I really don't have any issues with the camera anymore.

  7. #7
    Account closed World's End Supernova
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye Fierce
    I generally like the game, but there have been so many times when I've thought "Why can't this work like WoW?"
    People in my group asked the same thing. I agree that the camera could be better (particularly indoors), but I think it's sort of weird to compare the interface to WoW, which is a first-person (or third-person over-the-shoulder, which is effectively the same thing as far as camera control goes) game. You might as well ask why the cameras in Titan Quest or Civ 4 don't work like WoW's.

    Obsidian are mostly to blame for the confusion, I think. They went to a lot of effort to design a game engine that lets you zoom all the way in and tilt up to see to the horizon, like a WoW-style game. That was an unfortunate choice, because it doesn't really add anything useful to the game, and people are so used to playing WoW that they are going to latch on to anything that feels familiar. But NWN still controls, first and foremost, like a Diablo-style 3/4 overhead view game. It's best to just treat it that way, instead of trying to make it into a poor-man's WoW interface.

  8. #8
    Mad Chester KiloOhm's Avatar
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    Are they going to fix the party AI anytime soon? My biggest gripe is my healers don't heal anyone unless I take direct control over them.

  9. #9
    New Romantic ydejin's Avatar
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    I use the 3/4 view. I'm generally good while outdoors, and only adjust to swing the camera around right or left. Sometimes when entering indoors, I need to increase the verticle angle. But other than that I'm mostly good.

    It does do wierd things though when exiting buildings. They do need the camera to treat buildings in the foreground as transparent the same way trees in the foreground are ignored by the camera.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sones
    Obsidian are mostly to blame for the confusion, I think. They went to a lot of effort to design a game engine that lets you zoom all the way in and tilt up to see to the horizon, like a WoW-style game.
    To be fair, Bioware added a lot of this stuff first in Hordes of the Underdark which was the first "official" module that used skyboxes IIRC.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloOhm
    Are they going to fix the party AI anytime soon? My biggest gripe is my healers don't heal anyone unless I take direct control over them.
    They wont even fucking comment on the issue, so I doubt it.

    In the meantime this guy's scripts are 100% better than the default, at least
    http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums...forum=109&sp=0

    Must have download for anyone playing the game. Make sure to put them in the right place.

  12. #12
    World's End Supernova Chris Nahr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ydejin
    It does do wierd things though when exiting buildings. They do need the camera to treat buildings in the foreground as transparent the same way trees in the foreground are ignored by the camera.
    I agree. That's my biggest remaining gripe with the camera after the beta patch fixed the rotation issues. When I exit a building I usually stare at my PC's back at maximum zoom level, I can't rotate the camera to a better view, and I'm barely able to click on a free spot on the ground so that the PC walks away from the doorway and the camera swings back into normal position.

  13. #13
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    Worst game I ever liked. Absolutely useless pig of an engine. I'm left wondering how much better a game this would be if some other engine was used to convey the story because the engine is so user-hostile.

  14. #14
    Still king of lost New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Nahr
    I agree. That's my biggest remaining gripe with the camera after the beta patch fixed the rotation issues. When I exit a building I usually stare at my PC's back at maximum zoom level, I can't rotate the camera to a better view, and I'm barely able to click on a free spot on the ground so that the PC walks away from the doorway and the camera swings back into normal position.
    And that happens so often it was one of the most glaring things that shouted lower production value than Bioware right from the get-go. Surely that's an easy fix for them?

  15. #15
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    I dunno, I kind of got used to it fairly quickly. I used the standard free-form camera, zoomed out pretty far, and just used the middle button to move it. Of course I had to pause it to select enemies now and then, but geez it could've been worse. At least it didn't have huge slabs of concrete occluding the view like in Dungeon Siege 2.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Nahr
    I agree. That's my biggest remaining gripe with the camera after the beta patch fixed the rotation issues. When I exit a building I usually stare at my PC's back at maximum zoom level, I can't rotate the camera to a better view, and I'm barely able to click on a free spot on the ground so that the PC walks away from the doorway and the camera swings back into normal position.
    Easiest thing to do there is just use WSAD to move your character forward a few feet so the camera goes back to normal.

  17. #17
    World's End Supernova Chris Nahr's Avatar
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    Good tip, thanks. I forgot about the WASD movement keys.

  18. #18
    New Romantic ydejin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interman
    I dunno, I kind of got used to it fairly quickly. I used the standard free-form camera, zoomed out pretty far, and just used the middle button to move it.
    I played around with the free-form camera a bit. The big problem I ran into with it, was I couldn't figure out how to get it to recenter on the current character. Is there any easy way to do that, that I just missed?

  19. #19
    World's End Supernova Chris Nahr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olaf
    In the meantime this guy's scripts are 100% better than the default, at least
    http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums...forum=109&sp=0

    Must have download for anyone playing the game. Make sure to put them in the right place.
    That link only works for people with a forum account. Here's the same link that works for everyone:
    http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums...3902&forum=109

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by olaf
    They wont even fucking comment on the issue, so I doubt it.

    In the meantime this guy's scripts are 100% better than the default, at least
    http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums...forum=109&sp=0

    Must have download for anyone playing the game. Make sure to put them in the right place.
    So happy you linked that thread. I installed this the other night but I put it into the Override folder in the main directory and not the Documents and Settings dir.

  21. #21
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    I hate the fact that NWN2's engine is a pig, but I don't really get the camera concerns -- I just used the mouse wheel to quickly zoom around to any perspective I could possible want. You can also click the F1-F10 keys, or the portrait if you want to grab a character quickly. It would be nice if the game supported RTS-style click/drag box select, like the BG series did, but that's about the only UI that I miss.

  22. #22
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    I hate the continued graphics glitches I still sometimes get (popping polygons, mainly). The pigginess of the engine doesn't bother me, but flakiness really does. It's better now that I have the NWN2 profile set in my nvidia settings, but it still happens way too often. (Does anyone else get polygon flickering in this game, or is it just me? Mainly on world geometry. Doesn't happen all the time, but on some levels, especially after playing for a while, it happens waaaay too much. Some texture corruption, too.)

    And doorways suck, WHY don't they make the door arches go transparent? Seems like "object fade" means just that: world objects fade out, but world geometry does not, at least not in any kind of predictable way. Patch THAT, Obsidian! PLEASE!

    But I do use the KOTOR-style follow camera and I do use the driving keys, and whenever I'm not going through a doorway I find it quite livable. Looking forward to the third patch, I'll wait until it's out of beta though.

  23. #23
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    I play it the way Ben does, using the default camera style, and move the camera rotation quite a bit. I only angle it differently when the thing I'm trying to target is a little too big (such as dragons and the big foozle).

  24. #24
    World's End Supernova Rock8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Tudor
    I've been playing NWN2 recently and for the most part it's a great game. But I am having a hell of a time trying to find a camera view I am comfortable with or be able to configure the way I want it.

    Maybe I have been spoilt by WoW's great mouselook interface. Has anyone else settled on a decent method for setting the camera views in NWN2 ?

    Sean, I used to have problems too, until I used a combination of Mouse3, WASD, and the Driver Camera.

    Basically if you press * until you get to the Drive Cam, then go under options and drop the Camera Lag time down to almost nothing, then use Mouse3 to rotate the view around you whenever you're not comfortable, it handles and plays just like KOTOR for the Xbox. (I've never played the KOTOR series on PC, so I have no idea what the controls were for that).

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by olaf
    They wont even fucking comment on the issue, so I doubt it.

    In the meantime this guy's scripts are 100% better than the default, at least
    http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums...forum=109&sp=0

    Must have download for anyone playing the game. Make sure to put them in the right place.
    Wow, thanks for the heads-up. Does it keep them from switching actions during usage of items, such as interrupting it to sing a song or cast a spell? Not to spoilerize anything but towards the end of the game this problem is particularly ANNOYING since you have to baby-sit the person doing a "use" action until it finishes, letting the bad AI take control of your casters.

    Also, it tends to cancel Flurry, Parry, etc if you change *to* a character. I don't know if that's an interface bug or what. Maybe 1.03 fixes that ?
    Last edited by Kunikos; 12-01-2006 at 01:48 PM.

  26. #26
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    I've not had camera problems either, except with damage on the dragon (who I finally killed. Take that you big red ass goblin!).

    Otherwise, I was too busy swapping between characters to issue commands to watch the game. I wish they had made things turn based, or at least included the option, as I end up pausing all the time anyway.

    Arcanum did that. TB, Fast TB, Real time. Plus gunz!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeon221

    Arcanum did that. TB, Fast TB, Real time. Plus gunz!
    I really wish Troika had survived, I would've loved an Arcanum sequel. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordrak
    I really wish Troika had survived, I would've loved an Arcanum sequel. :)
    No you wouldn't have. You think you would have, but it would be so filled with bugs, you'd be cursing just like everyone else until the community made patches Troika couldn't/wouldn't.

  29. #29
    World's End Supernova stusser's Avatar
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    I played and beat arcanum three months before its official release date. Yes, it was buggy, but it was totally playable.

  30. #30
    New Romantic ydejin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Perkins
    No you wouldn't have. You think you would have, but it would be so filled with bugs, you'd be cursing just like everyone else until the community made patches Troika couldn't/wouldn't.
    I'm with Stusser. In my case, I played ToEE and had great, great fun playing it out of box, while a lot of people were bitching about patches. For the most part, I didn't have any problems. I'm sorry to see Troika go, and I'm very sorry we didn't get a ToEE sequel.

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