Best Star Trek Series

[Brad Grenz]

I wrote a big long rumination of Voyager (mostly a defense) a little while ago. Realized I never posted it anywhere, but this thread reminded about it. You can now read it here. As a summary, I believe the actually quality of the TNG era Star Treks are the exact opposite of what they are generally accepted to be. Actually I don't believe I address DS9 in that essay, since I hadn't done my rewatch at that time, but I think the series is pretty awful for the most part and I'd rank it below both TNG and Voyager.

[DennyA]

I wrote a big long rumination of Voyager (mostly a defense) a little while ago. Realized I never posted it anywhere, but this thread reminded about it. You can now read it here. As a summary, I believe the actually quality of the TNG era Star Treks are the exact opposite of what they are generally accepted to be.

About the only thing I agree with you about in that essay is that TNG is much worse than people remember it. (But in its defense, the episode you cite was first season, 1989, and among the first non-TOS episodes ever.) But hey, I'll defend to your death your right to be wrong. :)

Actually I don't believe I address DS9 in that essay, since I hadn't done my rewatch at that time, but I think the series is pretty awful for the most part and I'd rank it below both TNG and Voyager.

Or very wrong, as the case may be. :)

[Brad Grenz]

DS9 has three major problems: boring religious BS that makes up like half the show, Avery Brooks' godawful acting, and the fact that it takes place on something that doesn't move. The Ferengi are the only characters on the show I actually like. I suppose it would help if the war with the Dominion made up more than like 5% of the actual episodes. It's nice when they come along to break of the tedium of Odo's romantic frustration, Obrien's parental challenges and Julian's standing around.

[CSL]

I really like most of DS9 but sticking in one place was NOT the problem for a lot of the bad stuff. They did have that nifty wormhole next door.

[Brad Grenz]

Being stuck in one place is a huge problem if you live next door to a bunch of crybaby bajorans.

[Benhur]

DS9 has three major problems: boring religious BS that makes up like half the show, Avery Brooks' godawful acting, and the fact that it takes place on something that doesn't move. The Ferengi are the only characters on the show I actually like. I suppose it would help if the war with the Dominion made up more than like 5% of the actual episodes. It's nice when they come along to break of the tedium of Odo's romantic frustration, Obrien's parental challenges and Julian's standing around.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but some of the stuff you state is just plain wrong.

The "boring" religious BS was not only pretty good, but it made up far less than "half the show." In fact, once the producers caught on that many people weren't taking to the Bajoran-centerted episodes, they cut them down to practically nothing. They would find an interesting way to tie Bajoran culture back into the series toward the end, but I would say that this got less than 10% of the overall show content.

Avery Brooks is a terrific actor and shows tremendous emotional range. He fills the role of father, station commander, and Emissary remarkably well. Watch his interation with Jake, Dukat, Kai Winn, or anyone else. It's always unique, it's always believable, and it's almost always terrific.

There were far more than 5% of the episodes dedicated to the war with the Dominion, and they were almost all universally great. The first six episodes of season 6 is one huge super-episode dedicated to the start of the war, and the last 10 episodes of the series is also one huge super-episode dedicated to the end of the war. The stuff in between is directly or indirectly related to the war with the Dominion, and many episodes in seasons 4 and 5 address the Federation gearing up for the war.

[Sander 001]

Avery Brooks a bad actor? Let's not confuse style with ability.

[Wallapuctus]

I think Avery Brooks has gone insane after watching The Captains.

[extarbags]

I thought Avery Brooks was fine, I just didn't think the character was that great.

[Andy Bates]

DS9 has three major problems: boring religious BS that makes up like half the show,

People used to criticize Babylon 5 for the overly religious overtones from a lot of the characters, and the show's creator (who is as anti-religious as they come) said, "Look, religion has been part of human culture for millenia, and no matter how much you might dislike it, it's unrealistic to presume that religion would suddenly disappear in the future." I always respected that attitude. Plus, the religious conflict led to some great episodes!

[Brad Grenz]

People used to criticize Babylon 5 for the overly religious overtones from a lot of the characters, and the show's creator (who is as anti-religious as they come) said, "Look, religion has been part of human culture for millenia, and no matter how much you might dislike it, it's unrealistic to presume that religion would suddenly disappear in the future." I always respected that attitude. Plus, the religious conflict led to some great episodes!

I don't have anything against religion being depicted in sci-fi, just how poorly it is done in DS9.

[russellmz00]

Being stuck in one place is a huge problem if you live next door to a bunch of crybaby bajorans.

what you call genocide, brad grenz called making babies cry!

i liked the way most of the religious stuff. kira had to deal with the fact her boss was a living, breathing religious icon. sisko had to deal with being regarded as someone holy, which annoyed the heck out of starfleet command. the range of religious stuff was pretty wide too, from demons and cults, bajoran and klingon, converts and disbelievers.

[demagogue]

Was it you, then? *High fives demagogue*

I was #3.

What was Malcolm Mcdowell doing there? I know he was in Generations, but that seems a bit thin for appearing at conventions. Of course, having never been to one, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

They'd take anyone with a link to the series. And I have to say, I had a great time and I'd recommend it to everyone. My friends and I bought some expensive tickets, which included access to the stars at a party of some sort. I wasn't up to it, but my friends went and had a great time speaking to various drunk stars and getting inside details.

[Sander 001]

what you call genocide, brad grenz called making babies cry!

i liked the way most of the religious stuff. kira had to deal with the fact her boss was a living, breathing religious icon. sisko had to deal with being regarded as someone holy, which annoyed the heck out of starfleet command. the range of religious stuff was pretty wide too, from demons and cults, bajoran and klingon, converts and disbelievers.

Yes. There was an episode in the final season called Covenant and in it, Dukat had become the leader of a Bajoran anti-Christ type cult. It was so perverted and twisted on different levels it was like seeing behind the scenes of an actual religion.

[Brian Rubin]

Yes. There was an episode in the final season called Covenant and in it, Dukat had become the leader of a Bajoran anti-Christ type cult. It was so perverted and twisted on different levels it was like seeing behind the scenes of an actual religion.

Oh yeah, that episode was fucked up, in a good way.

[CSL]

I think Avery Brooks has gone insane after watching The Captains.

Yeah he did come off a little nutty - but he did retreat to a life of academia. Of course if he was always like that it just means his performance is that much better.

[Brian Rubin]

Yeah he did come off a little nutty - but he did retreat to a life of academia. Of course if he was always like that it just means his performance is that much better.

I saw him at a few cons back in the day. He was always pleasant and awesome to listen to, but he seemed to more often than not talk about social issues in star trek -- and here on earth today -- rather than trek stuff itself, and when folks asked him about episode specific stuff though, he seemed kinda annoyed. He was quite pleasant on a one-on-one basis the one time I met him in an autograph line though.

[merryprankster]

Season 1 was mostly horribly. Season 2 is where the show began to find its footing, and season 3 is when it took off. I suggest keeping going. It's amazing what that show does.

So I have made it about half way through season 3 of DS9 and I still find it pretty lame-o. Is it time to throw in the towel or am I on the verge of this show "taking off".

[Brian Rubin]

Dude, you've not even gotten to the war yet. Keep goong!!

[Andy Bates]

Cut your losses and switch to Babylon 5. DS9 ripped off the war from them anyways.

[Sander 001]

How far along are you?
Shakaar, Defiant and the 2 parter Improbable Cause+The Die is Cast are excellent. Also watch the finale and skip the rest.

[anymunym]

I'd say keep watching at least until Improbable Cause (3x20) - or, if you want to be extra sure, until The Visitor (4x02) - and then decide. It still keeps getting better after that, but if you don't care for it by then, you probably won't become a fan later on either.

[RichVR]

Every time I watched DS9 it seemed to be about Quark's dumb (dumber) cousin or the kids. It got old fast.

[DKDArtagnan]

DS9 has a higher quality constant, but it never peaks as high as TNG.

Also, I was quite underwhelmed by the ending.

[merryprankster]

I think I have figured out why I like Voyager so much more than DS9 (I'm on S3E9). DS9 seems to be trying to be quality sci-fi, but comes up short and ends up in that area between good fun and serious/believable sci-fi*. This is a space that I find groan worthy (obviously this line varies by viewer). It wants me to suspend my disbelief, but it's just a bit to cheesy for me to be able to. (That being said I will keep watching until S4E2, giving more than a fair shake)

Voyager on the other hand seems better at embracing it's schlock and, while a bit cheesier than DS9, it ends up being a fun watch. It doesn't ask me suspend my disbelief at all, it just gives me a fun ride.

*Examples of Sci-Fi I consider successful at suspending disbelief: Alien/Aliens, Blade Runner, Firefly, BSG (Which I grudgingly admit because I hate that show).

[Rock8man]

Season 4 is where I personally fell in love with the show. And then Seasons 5, 6, and 7 just got better. It was only then, years later, when I went back and watched Seasons 2 and 3 again that I liked them a lot more. I wish I could watch the show again for the first time. You're just starting to get into the area where it's about to get so good.

[russellmz00]

Voyager on the other hand seems better at embracing it's schlock and, while a bit cheesier than DS9, it ends up being a fun watch. It doesn't ask me suspend my disbelief at all, it just gives me a fun ride.

voyager annoyed me since it seemed like every other problem was solved by replacing someone's dna with the teleporter. someone split into two people? off screen teleporter dna. turned into a lizard? off screen dna teleporter.

[merryprankster]

Hmmm..I don't remember them using the teleporter as a fix all, and I am currently watching the series.

I do love the Holographic Operatic Doctor. That guy is pure gold. :)

[ydejin]

Hmmm..I don't remember them using the teleporter as a fix all, and I am currently watching the series.

I do love the Holographic Operatic Doctor. That guy is pure gold. :)

I don't remember the teleporter fix occurring regularly either, but I'm only up somewhere in the 2nd season.

Love the doctor, definitely one of my favorite Star Trek characters, he's very well played.

[Warning]

I just finished cherry-picking episodes throughout all 7 seasons and I don't remember the teleporter thing either.