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Thread: NWN2 - Game play / mechanics

  1. #1
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    NWN2 - Game play / mechanics

    I want this thread to be strictly about game play and mechanics issues. Please, do not talk about the main campaign in any detail, no spoilers please.

    Anyway, questions / observations after my first night playing:

    My friend and I are going to do the campaign together. Well we sign up and register (I can't believe the amount of bullshit you need to go through to enable multi-player play) and my friend hosts a game.

    I go to game-spy and try and join, and it keeps saying he is behind a firewall. He says he has all the ports open, and even puts himself in the DMZ. Still nothing works.

    I notice *most* games list in game-spy have no ping times listed. I try and join about a dozen and all of them give me the fire wall error. He tries and join them, and gets the same result.

    I then try and join the few games that do not have passwords and have ping times. Some of these I can join, others I can not.

    Anyhow, I tell him to host again, and Ill try the 'direct connect' option, bypassing game-spy. I try and it instantly connects to his game server and we start to play.

    Question 1 for developers: Why on God's green earth do you STILL use game spy? Can you name a SINGLE game ever made for game-spy that doesn't have hideous connection issues? I can't remember a single game that wasn't a huge pain in the ass for multi-player that uses game-spy. What do these people do to con you into using them? Do they offer you gold-plated Cadillacs or something? This service has seriously sucked from the beginning and IMHO will always suck.

    So I go through character creation (it would be nice if you could do this without starting a new game). My own complaint, which is one that nearly every RPGish game has, is that you can't really make a red-head. I know, a trivial complaint, but I would like to point this out. I have certain characters I make for every RPG with certain looks. I have a monk named Zin, with fair skin and red hair. Not off color orange or brown, but RED. You can do blue, green, or purple hair, but you can't do red. What is the deal with that? Also, where did the flat-tops go? They were in the original NWN. Zin has a flat-top.

    Anyway... I make my monk and I also make a sorcerer. I decide to use my sorcerer for multi-player.

    Familiar time, what will it be? A pixie or a panther? Oh wait... they are non-combat, non utility pets. Why does a pig give me resistance being bluffed? Umm, I guess Ill go with a cat since none of the skill buffs have any use to me. Maybe Ill train some hide and sneaking at some point. I named him Tepid after the cat that killed mice in the tavern in the original Baldurs Gate. To bad there is only one cat model. Oh well.

    I can see how the old pets were over-powered, I mean the pixie could unlock any door / chest and disarm traps. Who needed a thief if you had a pixie? The panther would pwn at low levels too and made a great distraction while you got a few spells off.

    Question: Does anyone know if your familiars ever gain abilities when you level? When my sorcerer leveled, my kitty despawned. I assumed that when I summoned him again he would be improved in some way, but I could not see any differences.

    Anyway, the tutorial starts and my frame-rate is horrible. I turn off shadows which improves things decently. However, once I go outside, it gets unplayable bad. I turned off water reflections and refractions which dramatically improved my framerate. However, adjusting or turning off the anisotropic filtering for textures made zero impact on my frame-rate. It is kind of amusing to see the world drawn with no texture filtering. It reminded me of what games looked like before there were 3D cards. I ended up having to lower my resolution down quite a bit to get a playable framerate.

    Ok, so I am in the world with Tepid my cat. My friend is running around in the tutorial area. I have no idea where he is. The camera control is sluggish and hard to manage. I do not remember having this much difficulty in NWN.

    I found that the middle mouse button allows me to rotate the camera. To bad it is wildly spastic when you use it. It is hard to rotate the camera a little bit. I would like the devs to work on this and see if they can make it less sensitive so it doesn't go nuts when you try and pan around a bit.

    Another annoying issue was that whenever you 'zoned' the camera angle was reset and the quick casting panel would go away. This is very annoying. When you zone into a building I have a nice view of the back wall of the room and I have to manually rotate the camera up every time so I can see into the room.

    I have some feature requests in this regard:
    1. Can you make interior walls that are between the camera and players become invisible?

    2. When you zone, keep the old camera angle or use a default that is appropriate for the area you zone in to.

    3. When you zone, please keep the UI panels that were open before zoning open after you zone.


    Ok, back the the game world. So my friend is running around and I can't find him easily. Clicking on the mini-map doesn't allow you to move the camera to that location. Can you make it so that clicking on the mini-map does do that and/or will tell your characters to walk to the location on the mini-map?

    Clicking on distant characters doesn't allow you to control them or jump to their location. Tepid got lost and I could not click on his icon to select him. I had to walk around until I could select him. I also could not click on an NPC following my friend to locate him.

    Finally, there is a big feature missing from NWN2. What happened to the context menus? You know, when you could right click on a person / item and then choose a bunch of actions like pick-pocket, follow, attack, cast a spell, etc... Please bring these back. Currently I do not know how to attack anything unless the default action is attack.

    For example, I see Tepid has an attack. I decided to see if he could attack a chicken. I could only get info chickens and saw no way to initiate hostilities. I then tried it with my main character and once again could not see a way to attack chickens. I tried this wither other objects / animals and found no way to initiate hostilities.

    Anyway, those are my comments / impressions from my first night of NWN2.

  2. #2
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    Question: Does anyone know if your familiars ever gain abilities when you level? When my sorcerer leveled, my kitty despawned. I assumed that when I summoned him again he would be improved in some way, but I could not see any differences.
    If it follows normal D20 rules, it's every few levels that your pet improves, not every level.

  3. #3
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    Finally, there is a big feature missing from NWN2. What happened to the context menus? You know, when you could right click on a person / item and then choose a bunch of actions like pick-pocket, follow, attack, cast a spell, etc... Please bring these back. Currently I do not know how to attack anything unless the default action is attack.
    They are still there. Just hold right click over the person / thing.

  4. #4
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    I thought it was Xfire not Gamespy. No matter, if it bugs you enough and you just want to play with your one friend located somehwere else, look into Hamachi or something similar (Dwango too if it's still around.)

    It'll let you create a VPN between you and he that ANY game will work over.

  5. #5
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    I think a VPN is overkill. Anyway we could play with direct connect methods, just not going through gamespy.

    Anyway, those context menus are there? I did try and right-click and never got any, although I may not have done a right click and hold.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Perkins
    If it follows normal D20 rules, it's every few levels that your pet improves, not every level.
    So what kind of improvements can I expect? I mean I can't think of any useful improvements for Mr. Kitty unless he gains skills like lock-picking and trap disarming, which is not something I envision a house-cat learning to do even in a fantasy game.

    Right now he is like one of those WoW pets that are just an asthetic and do not actually do anything in game.

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    They buff you, man. Bat gives +3 to your Listen, that kind of thing. Beetle gives +1 HP per level, my sorcerer LOVES his beetle, very David Cronenberg. Also they can deliver touch spells. (Apparently.)

    Also, last night the second time I ran it (after quitting out briefly), it was having terrible lag problems -- it would run fine for a few seconds, then FREEZE for a few seconds, then run a few more, etc., freezing literally once a minute or so. W. T. F?????? (I stopped playing after that... hope it's better tonight for my first real serious sit-down with it....)

    Double edit: If you have an item that boosts one of your stats, and you level up, do you get skill points / hit points / etc. based on your boosted stat or on your non-boosted stat? I can only assume the latter... true?
    Last edited by RepoMan; 11-02-2006 at 12:53 PM.

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    Base stats, so non-boosted.

    So if there is a feat that requires 13 intelligence and your character has 10 intelligence but is boosted to 13 via items/spell, the feat won't be available on level up.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus
    They are still there. Just hold right click over the person / thing.
    Are you sure? I wasn't getting any context menus either and kind of wondered what happened to them.

  10. #10
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    Hmm, anyone else getting a 2D graphic not found kinda thing?

    Game still runs, but during load screens i get a 4 color screen saying the 2D grapic isnt found.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmtrap
    Are you sure? I wasn't getting any context menus either and kind of wondered what happened to them.
    You have to hold the right button down for a bit to get it to show up. That, or shift-right-click to get it instantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepT
    So what kind of improvements can I expect? I mean I can't think of any useful improvements for Mr. Kitty unless he gains skills like lock-picking and trap disarming, which is not something I envision a house-cat learning to do even in a fantasy game.

    Right now he is like one of those WoW pets that are just an asthetic and do not actually do anything in game.
    He'll never be a power house like a Druid (or a Ranger pet to some extent), but he'll gain powers over time. Check out this page, if they are following the d20 rules, it will help you out. About half way down there is a table describing the familiar abilities.

    That's a great site in general for most D&D questions.

  13. #13
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    The big "ability" of mage familiars is the ability to deliver their masters' touch spells, without putting the masters within melee range. They can also be used as pretty decent scouts, and they grant ability bonuses to the master when summoned.

    You can also completely control them, unlike Druid/Ranger companions.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinj
    You have to hold the right button down for a bit to get it to show up. That, or shift-right-click to get it instantly.
    Also, the default delay for context menus is long. Change it in the options. I like mine around .20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desslock
    The big "ability" of mage familiars is the ability to deliver their masters' touch spells, without putting the masters within melee range. They can also be used as pretty decent scouts, and they grant ability bonuses to the master when summoned.

    You can also completely control them, unlike Druid/Ranger companions.
    Huh? Master's touch spells? Where is this in the NWN2 documentation? How do you coordinate that, so a touch spell is delivered via a famillair? Right now, my kitty has 12 hp, up from 4hp. He is a bit more stealthy now, but other then that his utility has not increased.

    Now if I could channel any spell through him, like a fireball, that could come in useful.


    Ahh, I was reading that the famillair can use skill's it master has. So if I trained remove traps, and open locks, my famillair could then do this for me? I wonder if I could take one level of rogue and buy up a bunch of disarm traps / pick locks skills.
    Last edited by DeepT; 11-03-2006 at 05:59 AM.

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    Okay, how do I choose a sub-race in character creation? The manual says:

    For example, if you select the Planetouched race you will be prompted to select between the aasimar and tiefling sub-races.
    Except, when I click Planetouched, nothing else happens, no prompting, no additional choices. It just chooses Aasimar as default. Same for all the other main races. If I choose Elf, it defaults to Moon Elf, etc.

    Am I doing something wrong? I have installed the 1.01 patch.

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    Really? It gave me a choice when I was browsing through those screens making my first character.

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    Okay, scratch that. You get to choose a sub-race after hitting "next". I'VE BEEN A BLOODY FOOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desslock
    The big "ability" of mage familiars is the ability to deliver their masters' touch spells, without putting the masters within melee range.
    OK, so *how* exactly do you do this? I couldn't work out from the interface how to get my sorcerer's beetle to shock the hell out of somebody with Shocking Grasp. Do you select the beetle, then right-click on the enemy you want the familiar to zap? Or what? The manual doesn't really say what to do.

    Edit: Looks like I'm not the only one confused, that's a relief :-) And DeepT, I'm basically going to do that with my Sorcerer, only it's going to be Diplomacy and Intimidate that I'm looking to buy up (since they're CHA-based and my sorcerer has max CHA). I got a human sorcerer with Able Learner, since that seems to be the only good way to swing it -- only humans let you have big sorcerer multi-class level mismatch without XP penalties....

    Double edit: Hmm, official D20 rules say this:
    Deliver Touch Spells (Su)

    If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the "toucher." The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
    Guess I'll try that next time. AAARGH SOOOO HARD TO CONCENTRATE ON WORK TODAY. MUST PLAY MORE. MUST GET HIGHER LEVEL. MUST FIND OUT WHETHER BEETLE HAS HIGHER DEX THAN MY CHARACTER....

  20. #20
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    Mage familiars are worthless unless they're demonic, supernatural, or another type of magically enhanced creature. Normal animals are so boring. I'll take an imp over a ferret anyday. :)
    Last edited by Kunikos; 11-03-2006 at 10:45 AM.

  21. #21
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    So, I picked up the strategy guide (why, I don't quite know) and in the back it has lists of all the "pre-sell" and limited edition extra items and I want. Anyone hear of a way to unlock these without buying another copy or going back in time and pre-ordering?

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    I pre-orderd mine. I am not sure how you are supposed to unlock anything. I am not sure the skills thing transfers over to NWN2, I do not recall seeing that in the documentation, but that doens't mean its not there.

    If I get a level as a rogue, does the 1st level of that class get the super 1st level bonuses of skillpoints or is that only for your overall level?

    Do the plane-touched have multi-class restrictions? I was not able to find any mention of it, I assume it would be the same as a human.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepT
    If I get a level as a rogue, does the 1st level of that class get the super 1st level bonuses of skillpoints or is that only for your overall level?
    You only get 4x skillpoints one the first level of a character. Someone who started off as a Rogue then took Fighter for the second level would have a lot more skillpoints than someone who took Fighter then Rogue for second level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Jones
    Okay, how do I choose a sub-race in character creation? The manual says:



    Except, when I click Planetouched, nothing else happens, no prompting, no additional choices. It just chooses Aasimar as default. Same for all the other main races. If I choose Elf, it defaults to Moon Elf, etc.

    Am I doing something wrong? I have installed the 1.01 patch.
    Ha. This got me too. The way it presents the stats of one sub race only on the initial race selection screen lead me to believe I could change the subrace, somehow, from that screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by charmtrap
    So, I picked up the strategy guide (why, I don't quite know) and in the back it has lists of all the "pre-sell" and limited edition extra items and I want. Anyone hear of a way to unlock these without buying another copy or going back in time and pre-ordering?
    The merchants friend thing, what you get from pre-ordering, is a 120K or so zip file that installs almost instantly and just gives a bonus feat to all of your main (player-created) characters. I pre-ordered (2 copies!) but I got screwed out of the code somehow but some dude on a message board emailed it to me. If you PM me with your email address I can send it to you later tonight when I get home. You also might be able to just google for it.

    I am wondering if there is a similarly easy way to get the CE content, whatever that is. Blessed of Waukeen I think.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepT
    Do the plane-touched have multi-class restrictions?
    Aasimar's favored class is paladin; Tiefling's is rogue.

    Pssst! It's in the manual!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah
    Aasimar's favored class is paladin; Tiefling's is rogue.

    Pssst! It's in the manual!

    What does favored class mean? I'm playing as an Aasimar Bard- have I somehow gimped myself?

  27. #27
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    Read the fine manual. It says favored classes do not incur experience penalties when multiclassed, neither do prestige classes. For example, you can be an Aasimar Paladin, and add a few levels of Cleric. As long as the other one is your favored class then you don't incur the penalty. You could add a level of a prestige class then and suffer no penalty either. However if you added a level of fighter then you would. My explanation kinda sucks, but the manual is pretty clear about it.

    In your case you could add levels of Paladin or any prestige class without any problems.

    I picked human as my race, they don't have to deal with it (and neither do Half-Elves).

  28. #28
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    Ah got it. I read the section of the manual on favored classes but I didn't get it at the time (multi-classing in general is confusing to me).

  29. #29
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    Are the favored class restrictions in on normal? I went thief/ranger with a moon elf last night without appearing to be slowed down in level gaining (leveled as fast as my compatriots).

  30. #30
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    The more I play the more the interface and especially the AI make me want to beat my head against the wall. It's as if they went out of their way to make it useless and unintuitive.

    I can see the design meeting gone awry.

    "Hey, we can have behaviors like follow, guard, and stand ground."

    "Great idea! And we can make it so seemingly at random the AI changes back to follow, and make sure there’s nothing on screen indicating which behavior mode they are in."

    "Oh, I know, we can have options in the AI like "use items" that even when turned off makes the AI use potions in the middle of combat giving the enemy attacks of opportunity".

    "Brilliant! Hey, how about instead of normal right click menus we put them on a delay, after all, interface standards just aren’t in the year. Got to keep the consumer on their toes, make them read the manual once in a while."

    "Cool! Maybe we can work some sort of inconsistent targeting interface in so that people will keep firing off spells on the wrong target."

    "Good ideas people, I also want the combat AI to have people decide at random to switch targets and run through a crowd of enemies to soak up some attacks of opportunity".

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