Reply With QuoteI'm not done but I'm almost there. I don't think it matters that much. I've never been in a fight where I wish I had different stats and I've been spreading my points rather evenly.
For people who've finished the SP game - how careful do you need to be in spending your skill points? Are there a generous amount (so, for example, could you build an effective "dual class" character, like fighter-mage, or mage-thief)?
I'm not done but I'm almost there. I don't think it matters that much. I've never been in a fight where I wish I had different stats and I've been spreading my points rather evenly.
I finished it with a Fighter-Thief, pretty much every skills related to those classes was maxep up by the end. I was a little too powefull imo, the game was too easy after chapter 7 (fire sword.)
The only optional quest I didn't complete was on the last level (so, where's this guy's corpse supposed to be ? i couldn't find it)
I want to play it again with a Thief-Mage evil character :)
That quest at the end is only worth two points.
Yes there is a fairly generous amount of skill points. When I finished I had stealth maxed and burglar plus combat through (adrenalin full melee, archery and critical hit, plus the first level of strength). I also got the healing spell early on so I'd have something to do with my mana.Originally Posted by Sam Jones
Heh. I meant 1 GB, not 1MB, of course.
Don't worry about hoarding potions and scrolls either. I finished on normal as my assassin character, and I had some 60 mana potions, at least 20 health, and tons of scrolls.
One more tip. Spider poison got you down. If you didn't notice already, you will not die from poison. It will take you down to 4 health and then it wears off. I often managed to get through a spider encounter without getting hit much other than the initial poisoning.
He's actually a zombie-looking corpse hanging from a chain. There are two pins you have to pull from locks on opposing sides of the chasm. You don't get skill points for completion, but it does alter a certain encounter further on.
Are there multiple endings to this thing? I'm on the epilogue right now and a few optional quests so far would logically seem to have an effect on the outcome. That'd give me even more incentive to replay it, even though I'd already planned to.
I've seen two endings. Looking back at the choice i've made, I think you can have as much as 8 endings:
Girl1/Girl2/No Girl(gay)/Girl1+2(macho)
with
Good/Evil
That'd be great if there were that many different endings. The only question at this point would be are they interesting/different enough for me to attempt to see them all?
More games need a gay ending.
Cheers. I beelined to Heal from the getgo, I was just curious as to how much specialisation was needed to make best use of the points. I think I'm gonna do Thief-mage for my first runthrough.
No. Girl2 won't let you keep Girl1, and you lose if you kill Girl2 after choosing her, for no better reason than that the game needs her to show up for the final cutscene. So four endings, which you can confirm by looking at the game's media directory.
Looks like Tom freakin' hated it:
http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3154749
I don't know about 'freakin' hated it'. But I was pretty disappointed.
-Tom
Wonder why he hated it so much?
"Deus Ex-style character development"
Oooh... now it makes sense. ;)
That part was actually a compliment! At least, it was supposed to be.
-Tom
Lack of a gay ending turned Tom off?
I keed, I keed.
That was a really poor review. "Your stealth won't help you fend off the swarms of giant spiders you'll perennially face, not to mention all those times you misjudge whether you can be seen." Who misjudges when they can be seen with an indicator right on the reticule telling you how easy you are to see? Who sticks around to fight swarms of spiders, they don't give XP and you can't loot their bodies for spider legs to make grandma's famous spider leg soup. You only have to fight one swarm of spiders in the game.
"Do you enjoy carefully hoarding arrows? If so, archery is for you." What? There's an endless quiver you can get as early as chapter 2 I think. And if you miss that one there's 2 more along the way.
"The visceral thrill of this clang and slash is pretty much the only thing that keeps Dark Messiah moving forward. Because it's certainly not the leveling, and it sure as hell isn't the storyline, in which you're lead by the nose through a rigidly linear world that quite literally is about going there and back again." That's absurdly hyperbolic, the levelling and storyline are both big draws. Yet somehow the combat that's acted as the centerpiece of every FPS ever made doesn't suffice here despite how good it is?
The first two paragraphs were good but the rest just spiralled downward into disappointment.
I presume by poor, you mean 'one that I didn't agree with'? Because otherwise, we've got...
The reticule doesn't tell you whether you can be seen. It tells you how good of a hiding spot you're in and how quiet you're being.
I count at least two boss battles with mandatory spider fighting, and at least two other places where I got dumped into close quarters with a bunch of spiders and no apparent way to avoid them with stealth.
Not that I found. So you're saying that in order for a class to be viable, you have to find a particular magic item?
That's absurdly subjective. And needless to say, I disagree.
-Tom
One leads directly to the other.The reticule doesn't tell you whether you can be seen. It tells you how good of a hiding spot you're in and how quiet you're being.
Nope. There's one fight near a big statue where you have to kill some spiders to progress. There's another fight near some spiders but there's no reason to fight them. There's also a few spots with spiders where it's in your best interest to just evade with those incredible boots of yours.I count at least two boss battles with mandatory spider fighting, and at least two other places where I got dumped into close quarters with a bunch of spiders and no apparent way to avoid them with stealth.
I never had any trouble with running out of arrows before I found an endless quiver. The fact that you managed to miss all three, especially when 2 are in rather obvious locations, adds further weight to the shoddy quality of this review. The first one is well hidden, the second is poorly hidden and I think you'd have to actually be blind to miss the third.Not that I found. So you're saying that in order for a class to be viable, you have to find a particular magic item?
I'm aware of your feelings. However, I'm trying to show you some points where you're wrong about, let's say, any supposed "futility of levelling". If you run around popping the heads of zombies with your bow or backstabbing necromancers using stealth then getting skill points is a much bigger draw. I'd say that can be considered objectively.That's absurdly subjective. And needless to say, I disagree.
The story I don't really care about arguing over, but you ignored the hyperbole of your statement. If only this fantasy action/adventure didn't have such visceral combat it be even unfunner!
I'm really suprised at the number of negative reviews (although Game Informer apparently gave it a 9.25). Legitimate technical complaints aside, I'm finding it to be quite fun. I suppose if you came at it from an RPG angle you could complain, but I'm putting it up against other FPS/Shooter type games. In that regard I'd say it's better than most, since most have no character skill development at all and most don't reward different types of gameplay. All three approaches (might, steath, and magic) as well as a mix of them are legitimate ways to play this game.
Let me put it this way, his Deus Ex (I, of course, strongly disagree with his conclusions) review was a classic because everything in it was true (and hilariously written). This is just bad.
If nothing else, Tom's review helped me to decide to wait until the price comes down a bit. I'll probably buy HL2:Ep1 + Sin instead (for less $ even!)
Thanks Tom!
I'm pretty sure there's a demo, Jim, if you're curious to see it for yourself. As others have said, the melee combat is "fun". Plus, as Mehrunes so amply demonstrated, my review is shoddy, so don't put too much stock in it.
Mehrunes, you're wrong about the spiders (boss fight at Skull of Shadows shrine and later to rescue the good chick); having to find a magic item to make an entire 'class' worthwhile is a bad design choice; and the fact that you think "storyline and leveling are big draws" is some objective truth is pretty dang silly.
Sorry you didn't like the review. You once again bring to light the problem with videogame journalism readers: their definition of a good review is simply one they agree with...
-Tom
Nobody cares, but here's my shot at this whole pointless debate:
I thought Tom's review was fair for the most part (I haven't finished the game yet), but the 4/10 score was not. A 4/10 generally indicates that the game is a festering pile of dogshit. This game is certainly not that. I think a 6/10 would have been both a more reasonable score and a better accompaniment for a review that wasn't wholly negative.
Let's be reasonable here. I've played Lionheart, for fuck's sake. I know what a bad game is. This is not a bad game.
That said, Deus Ex still fucking sucks.
Maybe one of the ZD folks will weigh in here, but they're trying to break out of the whole 7-9 ratings system. The idea is that a 5 is a middling game. By giving Dark Messiah a 4, my point is that it's a notch below middling.
If I were rating it for a site that uses 7-9, I'd have given it a 6.
Stupid numbers...
-Tom
A. You don't have to fight spiders (besides the boss) to rescue the chick, they don't even approach you if your on the ledge where you find her.
B. As I said (it was in English, I'm almost positive) not only did I not have ammo problems, but the idea of missing all of the endless quivers is ridiculous. Next you'll tell me you missed all of the swords and thus the swordfighting is terrible. (I deserve one use of hyperbole, so here it is.)
C. I said levelling is a big draw if it actually helps your character and gives you cool new abilities to use, trying to show you some of what you seemed to have missed in that aspect in the process. It objectively makes the game better in the same way building up force abilities in Jedi Knight makes that game better too. You'd have to live in some subjectivist fantasyland to say that such-and-such adds significantly to the enjoyment of the game, but doesn't actually make the game better.
D. I gave an example of a good review that I didn't agree with just to head off your kneejerk reaction to criticism. The fact that you're knee is still recoiling tells me that this discussion has run it's course.
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