GURPS shot itself in the foot?

**RepoMan** · 10-23-2006, 09:46 AM

Yesterday I was at a random game shop in my neighborhood (non-computer game shop) and I noticed the shelves were practically bare of GURPS stuff. I asked the dude about it and he said that Steve Jackson released a "totally disastrous" new GURPS edition that basically destroyed the GURPS community. "He didn't change much, but every change he did make made no sense. He got greedy."

True? What the fuck happened? I miss all the huge variety of GURPS books -- the WoTC stuff is basically Monte Cook's Endless Parade Of Generic Fantasy, but GURPS always took on actually pre-existing fantasy genres (Lensman, Traveller, etc., etc.), which was more interesting in many ways. It'd be sad for the d20 ruleset's main competitor to take a total nosedive....

**Hawkeye Fierce** · 10-23-2006, 09:56 AM

I haven't seen the new 4th edition, but I hadn't heard anything about it destroying the community or whatnot. The guy might have just been a disgruntled fanboy.

From what I've heard, the changes made the game more streamlined, which I can see pissing off some people who thrive on uber-detail. I never though GURPS was very playable unless you stripped out a lot of the detail, so it wouldn't bother me, but other folks, who knows.

**Slainte Mhath** · 10-23-2006, 12:18 PM

Seemed like there was still plenty of GURPS stuff floating around GenCon Indy when I was there in August, and not just in the bargain bins at the retailer booths.

I always leave that convention wishing I still played PnP RPGs because the sheer volume of stuff available for D&D, GURPS and D20 could take you a lifetime to play. Hell the amount of stuff in the $5 or less bargain bins alone could last someone an entire year, though I'd imagine the quality would be somewhat lower than the top of the line stuff. Still, that's nothing a creative DM can't fix.

**Robert Sharp** · 10-23-2006, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Fierce

From what I've heard, the changes made the game more streamlined, which I can see pissing off some people who thrive on uber-detail. I never though GURPS was very playable unless you stripped out a lot of the detail, so it wouldn't bother me, but other folks, who knows.

You are really confusing me here. How could GURPS be MORE streamlined? How can anyone say it's so complex it's unplayable. It's one of the simplest systems out there.

**Hawkeye Fierce** · 10-23-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Sharp

You are really confusing me here. How could GURPS be MORE streamlined? How can anyone say it's so complex it's unplayable. It's one of the simplest systems out there.

Streamlined in terms of the extra rules options available, is what I meant. I don't think the core mechanics have changed much.

**scharmers** · 10-23-2006, 01:53 PM

GURPS is all about the chrome, and lots of it. Fortunately for Evil Stevie, GURPS managed to bear the weight of endless chrome for many years; unlike, say, Car Wars, which finally collapsed under the load.

**Jasper Phillips** · 10-23-2006, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Sharp

You are really confusing me here. How could GURPS be MORE streamlined? How can anyone say it's so complex it's unplayable. It's one of the simplest systems out there.

In my view GURPS has accreted a confusing mess of "optional" rules. I haven't seen the new edition, but the last version could definitely do with some house cleaning.

**Bill Dungsroman** · 10-23-2006, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by RepoMan

"He didn't change much, but every change he did make made no sense. He got greedy."

I'd say he, upon reflection, changed much.

**Brian Rucker** · 10-23-2006, 02:11 PM

The reviews I've seen on Amazon were mostly positive. I'm one of those guys who picks up individual GURPs supplements that look interesting but who's never gotten around to picking up the actual core rules. I was considering getting the new core books this time around though.

**Aeon221** · 10-23-2006, 08:29 PM

Really, it would help me. Google is so hard =/

**Warren** · 10-23-2006, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Aeon221

Really, it would help me. Google is so hard =/

GURPS = Generic Universal Role Playing System

I assume that's the acronym you mean?

**Jasper Phillips** · 10-23-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Aeon221

Really, it would help me. Google is so hard =/

Oh, come on. Just put Gurps into google and/or wikipedia, and check the first hit that comes up.

**Dave Weinstein** · 10-24-2006, 12:12 AM

I have no idea about your local game shop, nor do I have any notion of the relative sales of the latest version of GURPS, but I will make the following observations:

In general game shops have been undercapitalized, and are often populated by owners and employees (and fans) who have all the business sense of a concussed wombat. I have personally observed shops claim that companies are out of business (or products haven't been released) to cover up the fact that they don't have the capital to actually buy the new releases. On the flip side, I have also seen store employees insult the products that people are walking to the counter to buy, because the employee doesn't like that product line.

Additionally, the received wisdom on "what is a good game"/"is the new version worth it" varies wildly with region. What sells like hotcakes in one city may never move a copy in another.

Finally, many of the stores have lacked any kind of POS or even manual sales tracking, so the owners don't even know what sells in their shop (and I've heard of distributors who did track client store sales, and what the distributors tracked and what the store owners thought sold were wildly divergent).

**RepoMan** · 10-24-2006, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Weinstein

In general game shops have been undercapitalized, and are often populated by owners and employees (and fans) who have all the business sense of a concussed wombat.

You know, this guy did look a bit like a concussed wombat. A FAT concussed wombat.

I wanted to pre-order BattleLore from them (I had a 20% off coupon). They refused to pre-order it because "you can't trust when Days of Wonder will ship something. It could be November in a whole different year." To my mind, the question is, SO WHAT? Don't you WANT my money? Do you REALLY care how long you're going to sit on my money? Apparently so. Go figure.

So I spent the 20% coupon on a totally gratuitous d20 book. (Yes, no willpower = me.)

**Warren** · 10-24-2006, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by RepoMan

You know, this guy did look a bit like a concussed wombat. A FAT concussed wombat.

The Comic Book Store guy on The Simpsons works as a caricature precisely because of the germ of truth it exaggerates.

**Jay Adan** · 10-24-2006, 08:45 AM

Well, as a store owner who understands business enough to know to bring in a partner who understands business AND has a POS system...

I was disappointed with GURPS because it didn't really change too much. I was hoping for a D&D 3rd Ed. style rewrite. What we got was a nip and a tuck.

On the good side, the new books are all very nice. I like the hardbacks, I like the greater emphasis on quality. Essentially, if you liked the old rules there should be little reason to dislike the new rules - aside from a general fear of change or a feeling that your old supplements don't work with the new version.

Of course, the new set doesn't really sell any better than the old set. Our customers have very specific tastes and generally don't run to the GURPS side of the table. I continue to be a fan of the game for a specific type of RPing.

**Balasarius** · 10-24-2006, 10:30 AM

One word -

Fallout.

Steve Jackson greedy? No WAI!

Thread: GURPS shot itself in the foot?

Thread Tools

GURPS shot itself in the foot?

You could spell that acronym out once

Posting Permissions