Slim Devices Squeezebox

**Funkdrunk** · 06-07-2006, 08:01 AM

I currently have an HTPC hooked up to my NAS where I keep my MP3 collection. I use the HTPC plugged into my HT reciever to play music in the living room, but I find it awkward to have to turn on my TV, the computer, and the reciever - navigate to my media player software, then click a playlist to start playing music, then finally turn the TV back off.

I started looking into things like the Squeezebox, and the Roku Labs Soundbridge, but the downside for all of these devices is that I had to keep a computer running their software to stream the music to the device. I wanted something that could read from the NAS.

Well Slim devices has introduced a partnership with Infrant Technologies, where they're putting their server software into the firmware on the Infrant Technologies ReadyNAS network storage device. If you keep your media on the NAS, then you never have to turn on a computer to access your music.

All of this build up is for one question. Is it worth it? Has anyone used the Squeezebox, and is willing to offer up an opinion?

Thanks

Funk.

**Hans Lauring** · 06-07-2006, 08:16 AM

I haven't tried that particular setup, but I absolutely love my Squeezebox V3.
It's a brilliant piece of gear and when my pc isn't up and running (which it is 75% of the time) I still have access to Pandora.com and a couple of thousand netradio stations.

Just for reference I've tested a bunch of mediastreamers from Apple,Sony, Philips, Netgear, Sonos et al - the Sonos was the only one that impressed me as much as the Squeezebox, but that was more as a cool luxury product (5 times the price). Squeezebox is actually a much more versatile product.
I gave it 9 out of 10 in my review, if you're the type that like scores (and only the price in these parts kept it from a rare 10).

**Funkdrunk** · 06-07-2006, 08:38 AM

I didn't look into the Sonos before. It can read from a NAS, which is nice - but it is expensive. The Squeezebox with the ReadyNas is also very expensive (the only config they're selling it is with 1TB of storage).

Hanzii, could you point me to your review?

Thanks

Funk.

**Case** · 06-07-2006, 08:53 AM

I agree with Hanzii. The Squeezebox is a great little product, though the software UI is a little clunky. I just wrote it up for Extremetech, plus the Sonos and a weird little device called the Sirocco from Sondigo.

The Squeezebox plays just about any format. The Sonos plays most of them, but not WMA Lossless. Neither plays back protected content (i.e., songs bought from iTunes.) The Sirocco plays back protected content, but that's because is a sort of external, wirelessly attached sound card, not really a digital media adapter.

**Funkdrunk** · 06-07-2006, 09:24 AM

I hate to be a pest, but I just discovered that TwonkyVision makes a firmware upgrade for my NAS that lets it work as a UPnP server. Which I can then connect to my XBox 360 to stream music. So for the cost of some software I can sorta do what I'd like, just not as good (until a digital output comes out for the 360). It may be suboptimal, but it seems like it would work as an interim solution.

Thanks.

Funk.

**mouselock** · 06-07-2006, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Funkdrunk

I hate to be a pest, but I just discovered that TwonkyVision makes a firmware upgrade for my NAS that lets it work as a UPnP server. Which I can then connect to my XBox 360 to stream music. So for the cost of some software I can sorta do what I'd like, just not as good (until a digital output comes out for the 360). It may be suboptimal, but it seems like it would work as an interim solution.

Thanks.

Funk.

Err.. how does the 360 obviate the need to turn the TV on in order to select songs and the like?

**Funkdrunk** · 06-07-2006, 09:59 AM

It doesn't, but what it does do is allow me to not turn on the HTPC.... Um, ok so maybe it's not such a good solution. But once I turn the NAS into a UPnP server, then I can buy something that works with it in the future - like the Roku Soundbridge for example.

**Hans Lauring** · 06-07-2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Funkdrunk

I didn't look into the Sonos before. It can read from a NAS, which is nice - but it is expensive. The Squeezebox with the ReadyNas is also very expensive (the only config they're selling it is with 1TB of storage).

Hanzii, could you point me to your review?

I could. And I would have done so, if I wasn't sure, that the language would dissapoint you. Instead I'll link you to the one Loyd was to modest to link to himself. He's more thorough than me anyway... (but I'm the better writer ;)

Note that apart from needing the tv on, your Xbox is noisy as fuck, which isn't an audiophiles dream setup. The Squeezebox has a much better 24-bit converter and more options for connection to an amplifier (as well as just sending the digital signal to the amp and letting it do it's thing - nice if you have a good amp). A nice feature is the fact that the Squeezebox software is Open Source, so people keep making cool addons - there's Pandora, LastFM, worl clock, VU-meters, RSS-feed to the display and even a small horizontal Pac Man game...
... and you can remote control the Squeezebox with your PSP (or a mobile or PDA).

Ah well, here's the link to mine. Just so it doesn't look like I'm hiding something. Anyway, it can't be considered pimping when it's in a strange foreign language...

**LarryLard** · 06-07-2006, 01:34 PM

I got a Squeezebox. Two weeks later, I was enjoying it so much, I got another one. I have now run out of rooms I listen to music in, which is the only reason I stopped buying them. I absolutely adore these little things. My solution to the always-on-server requirement was simply to get a dead cheap Dell box and shove it in a corner. I've also moved to a Homeplug (Ethernet over power) networking solution which adds to the elegance of the setup: all these things are going to be near a power point anyway, after all.

The sound is really good too: won't satisfy elite audiophiles (what will!), but it beats an entry-level separates system easily. And my friend who is a part-time sound engineer makes contented beard-stroking noises while listening to it.

And the open source nature of the server is cool too - on finding out that BBC Radio doesn't expose their streams in a friendly way, I was briefly sad; but 30 seconds on Google found me the AlienBBC plug in for SlimServer, and I was happy again.

**Funkdrunk** · 06-07-2006, 02:07 PM

Case, in reading your article, I see you've used a Soundbridge in the past. How would you compare it against the Squeezebox? Favorably?

Funk.

**Case** · 06-07-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Funkdrunk

Case, in reading your article, I see you've used a Soundbridge in the past. How would you compare it against the Squeezebox? Favorably?

Funk.

My opinion: the Squeezebox is better.

The Squeezebox supports Apple Lossless, while the Roku doesn't. More importantly, the Roku uses Windows Media Connect, which is a nuisance requirement, though if you do have a NAS or similar device with uPnP streaming support, that's not that big a deal.

The downside of the Squeezebox is the lack of uPnP support. But the open source nature of SlimServer means that people are madly porting to tall kinds of configurations, such as the ReadyNAS support recently added.

As far as audio, the Squeezebox has Burr-Brown DACs, which are the gold standard for audiophile quality DACs. So if you don't have a great set of DACs at your destination, the Squeezebox does an excellent job on the D/A conversion.

**Aleck** · 06-07-2006, 04:44 PM

This actually brings up another question that I've had: does anyone have any suggestions for a good, cheap NAS? I'm looking for something quiet that I can just plug in down in the basement and let it run.

I know I could do this with a PC, but I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that a NAS would have much lower power requirements than most PCs. But maybe there's a "NAS OS" I'm not aware of that I could load on the PC.

Anyway, any and all suggestions would be extremely welcome.

**Funkdrunk** · 06-08-2006, 08:12 AM

One of the big name hardware guys can probably speak much better to your question, but what I'm using is the Buffalo Linkstation. It's fairly cheap, has a print server and is expandable via USB. I bought it a few years ago and the market has changed quite a bit. If I was on the market today, I would more than likely purchase a unit that would allow me to purchase my own choice of drives and could set up a raid array.

Funk.

**DennyA** · 06-08-2006, 12:51 PM

As far as not wanting to leave your computer on as a server, and wanting to instead use a NAS.... You do realize the NAS is a little computer, right? :)

I mean, sure, the computer uses more energy compared to a NAS, but how long would you have to leave it on before the energy cost difference was as much as the cost of the networked storage device?

**Case** · 06-08-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by DennyA

As far as not wanting to leave your computer on as a server, and wanting to instead use a NAS.... You do realize the NAS is a little computer, right? :)

I mean, sure, the computer uses more energy compared to a NAS, but how long would you have to leave it on before the energy cost difference was as much as the cost of the networked storage device?

Much less.

The Infrant ReadyNAS I'm using has four big drives, and a tiny power supply. The "computer" inside is basically a SoC with some RAM. No video, no optical drive.

If you're running a single drive NAS, or even one of the mainstream, two-drive RAID NAS units, they have power bricks that draw less around 30-40W peak.

**DennyA** · 06-08-2006, 02:27 PM

Still, how much does it cost to leave a PC idling 24/7 with the monitor and speakers turned off? It can't be much, because my electric bill didn't change noticeably when I added my Media Center PC...

Even if it's a few dollars a month, that's a lotta months before you pay for a NAS.

**stusser** · 06-08-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Case

The Infrant ReadyNAS I'm using

Did you pay for it yourself, or was it a freebie for review? Would you pay $650 of your own money for it?

**Aleck** · 06-08-2006, 03:22 PM

Well, I may have answered my own question, at least regarding the OS. Have anyone played around at all with FreeNAS at all? Appears to be an open source NAS project, which looks pretty sweet. Doesn't look like it's made it too far yet, though (although software RAID 5 looks enticing).

If I could figure out a VPN-like arrangement using this (and it may be there already -- I'm something of a moron when it comes to that kind of stuff), this would be ideal.

And, Denny, I agree (from a cost-benefit perspective) it's definitely cheaper to take my old monster Antec case, mount the Athlon 2400XP and Nforce2 motherboard that were the guts of my last gaming machine, drop in as many hard drives as I can find, and run that as a NAS. I just prefer the pretty (and sometimes even quiet!) little boxes for my storage needs, as opposed to my stainless steel monstrosity with its nonmatched CD/DVD drives and whatnot. After all, I'm trying to ditch the server (which is an old Dell PC) and I might be replacing it with something larger/louder if I go the home-built NAS route.

I was always somewhat disappointed that earlier generations of NAS weren't upgradable -- I had one of the early Linksys NAS boxes (20gb) and an Iomega NAS (120GB), but I was never able to find instructions on hacking them to put in a bigger hard drive, more memory, or anything like that. Maybe FreeNAS is the route to go from that perspective (but it means I don't get a pretty little box -- damnit!!!!)

**DennyA** · 06-10-2006, 05:02 PM

I was all over getting a Squeezebox for my birthday, but I just discovered they don't support PlaysForSure. Damn. Looks like a Roku for me.

We're probably going to sign up for Urge or Napster, in order to take advantage of the "all you can listen for $10" music. But need to be able to pipe those tunes downstairs.

**Jojo** · 06-10-2006, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Aleck

And, Denny, I agree (from a cost-benefit perspective) it's definitely cheaper to take my old monster Antec case, mount the Athlon 2400XP and Nforce2 motherboard that were the guts of my last gaming machine, drop in as many hard drives as I can find, and run that as a NAS. I just prefer the pretty (and sometimes even quiet!) little boxes for my storage needs, as opposed to my stainless steel monstrosity with its nonmatched CD/DVD drives and whatnot. After all, I'm trying to ditch the server (which is an old Dell PC) and I might be replacing it with something larger/louder if I go the home-built NAS route.

I was always somewhat disappointed that earlier generations of NAS weren't upgradable -- I had one of the early Linksys NAS boxes (20gb) and an Iomega NAS (120GB), but I was never able to find instructions on hacking them to put in a bigger hard drive, more memory, or anything like that. Maybe FreeNAS is the route to go from that perspective (but it means I don't get a pretty little box -- damnit!!!!)

I was idly looking at the Buffalo Terastation the other day, thinking it might be a good solution for storing my CD collection, when I get around to ripping it again (lost it in a hard drive crash last time, won't be an idiot next time, will make backups). I was wondering if they can be upgraded, but couldn't find any mention of that, other than adding external hard drives which seems pretty clunky. If not, then it seems like its just a pretty box, and I might as well use one of my old PCs with a few new hard drives. What's the advantage of a NAS?

**Aleck** · 06-10-2006, 07:06 PM

I think the main benefit of a NAS is not having to set up the server, drives, OS, etc. -- instead, you just have a box you plug in, a few settings you modify through a web browser, and wham-o -- it works.

Sometimes they also come in pretty little boxes, which is also neat (yeah, I'm a sucker for a network appliance).

**steve** · 06-10-2006, 08:27 PM

Do these kinds of network drive devices require drivers on your PCs, or do they use NTFS or FAT32 filesystems?

**Case** · 06-10-2006, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by steve

Do these kinds of network drive devices require drivers on your PCs, or do they use NTFS or FAT32 filesystems?

They typically use embedded Linux, and run some type of Samba file sharing software. That means it looks just like a Windows network share to your PC. No drivers are required.

**MikeSofaer** · 06-10-2006, 11:24 PM

Since we've moved to NASs in general, any recommendations? Are there a lot of intricate issues with seek times and concurrent users and stuff like that?

I've gotten tired of trying to figure out which machine a given photo or document is on, and I want to set up a NAS to consolidate it all. Unified desktop, should be fun.

**Joel** · 06-11-2006, 06:25 AM

MikeSofaer: Please don't take this as a sure-fire recommendation, because I've not used it personally, but I've been giving lusty glances at the Infrant ReadyNAS R600. Especially that one I just linked, because it comes with 1TB worth of drives and is only $850. The buzz on the street is that Infrant is the consumer NAS to beat, although anecdotally the only guy I know with one had to RMA it, so... (He said the customer service was dreamy, though, which is worth a lot to me.)

Anyway, I'll probably pull the trigger on that soon and let you know. There's a newer Infrant that even has a built-in iTunes server, but I don't think I want to pay the 30-40% premium for what is essentially the same hardware in a 'Mac-ier' housing.

**Funkdrunk** · 06-12-2006, 07:10 AM

There is also a download for the ReadyNas that puts the slimserver software on it, so it can serve a Squeezebox directly.

I lust for one of those units. I don't have the money, nor the need for that much capacity right now.

Funk.

**MikeSofaer** · 06-12-2006, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Funkdrunk

There is also a download for the ReadyNas that puts the slimserver software on it, so it can serve a Squeezebox directly.

I lust for one of those units. I don't have the money, nor the need for that much capacity right now.

Funk.

It does look sweet, but, yeah, my 300 gig external is only half full. I'll probably lurk Slickdeals for a week in the pointless hope of getting it cheaper, and then give in.

**Jojo** · 06-12-2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Funkdrunk

There is also a download for the ReadyNas that puts the slimserver software on it, so it can serve a Squeezebox directly.

I lust for one of those units. I don't have the money, nor the need for that much capacity right now.

Funk.

I just went to the squeezebox site, and it looks like they are offering a bundle now, buy one 1Tb ReadyNAS with 2 squeezeboxes for $1500, and the NAS has the slimserver software pre-installed. Very tempting package, if a bit pricey.

**Funkdrunk** · 06-12-2006, 12:41 PM

I saw that bundle as well. Droolworthy.

I ordered a Squeezebox based on the recomendations of the crew here. I have a Linux box I was planning on using for a variety of things, so I guess I'll leave it on and put the slimserver on there. I have to research the plugins, however, because if they're platform dependant, I may have to abandon the linux idea.

Funk.

**Funkdrunk** · 06-12-2006, 12:54 PM

I should have done my research first. Lo and behold, on the mods page of the plugins section is a link on how to install the slimserver on a Buffalo Linkstation. All problems solved.

Funk.

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