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Thread: Space sims where you can design your own ship?

  1. #1
    New Romantic
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    Space sims where you can design your own ship?

    What space sims allow you to have a heavy degree of customization beyond just 'swap engines'? Starflight, EV:Nova, etc. are just either upgrade oriented or use a generic 'mass' metric, but I'm thinking of something where you actually design the configuration, etc. of your ship. Anything like this in the past 10 years?

  2. #2
    New Romantic
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    My two recommendations would be ApeZone's Starship's Unlimited or wait for Galciv II which probably has the most amazing customization thus far.

    You could customize your ships to a limited degree in Positech's Starlines Inc which is now Starship Tycoon.

    I've really hoped that at some point somebody would come out with a game that merged The Sims with space trading. You would start out with a small ship with only the basic amenities and as you made money on trading you would be able to manually construct a new design for your ship and add new cargo pods, better living quarters, passenger compartments, better weapons, etc. Part of the gameplay would involve spaceship construction, part would be the trading, and part would be living on your ship and interacting in space ports.

    But this idea is probably lamer than a bag of two-legged horses and wouldn't work so I'm not holding my breath.

  3. #3
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    I can't really think of any that let you custom-build a ship in the same way you could build a Mech in Mecharrior 2 et al. You're either talking about linear space-sims like Wing Commander, Freespace, I-War 1 and Starlancer, or freeform stuff like I-War 2, Elite, X2 or X3, or even Space Rangers 2. With the former you can usually choose your ship, and missile/gun loadouts, and in the latter, your ship is like an RPG paperdoll, but it's nearly always a combination of mass and upgrade based parts for your ship. If you just want a really heavily customisable ship and a sandbox to run it about in, then you could always talk to Derek Smart.

  4. #4
    6th Grade Spelling Bee Loser World's End Supernova
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    Couldn't you do something like this in MOO?

  5. #5
    6th Grade Spelling Bee Loser World's End Supernova
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    Hmmm, and the main ship in Star Control 2 was somewhat customizable within limits, although if you wanted a good fighter vs. a good ore-hauler you pretty much end up with the same config either way.

  6. #6
    Mad Chester
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    This? I have a feeling I've tried the demo and it sucked, mind, so not sure if it's worth the download.

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    It's a 4x/RTS hybrid but so are some of the other games mentioned, so you may want to check out the upcoming Sword of the Stars.

    Each ship is designed by the player using three sections of command, mission, and engines. So if you want a EW ship you put a Deep Scan command on a Jammer mission section, if you want battle you can put a Hammerhead command on an Armored mission. Scouts would have a lang range engine section fitted to an Extended Range mission section and probably a Deep Scan command section. On top of that weapon mounts are configurable based on mount size and what weapons you have researched. Each section and weapons loadout are recognizable by the artwork for enemy ship recognition in the heat of combat.

    Each of the 4 individual races has over 70 sections broken down into three classes so that's at least a 1,000 ship configurations right there.

  8. #8
    New Romantic
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    The only games that come to my mind are the ancient DOS "Universe" game. They were sort of Space Rogue-like rpg/space sim hybrids. Those let you design your ship from the hull up, and you had to match power systems with engines and all sorts of overly detailed garbage. The game was pretty incomprehensible, as I recall, but I can't think of anything that went into quite as much detail as that one did.

    So yeah, other than a 20 year old game series, I got nothing.

  9. #9
    Account closed New Romantic
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    Is Starship Tycoon a good game? What kind of DRM restrictions does it have?

  10. #10
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadarr
    Is Starship Tycoon a good game? What kind of DRM restrictions does it have?
    I don't know and that's a strange question.

    I really liked the original but I don't really know what has changed.

    There's a demo though so check it out. The developer sometimes appears here under the name Cliffski if you want to try to PM him.

  11. #11
    New Romantic
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    I tried to play the demo of Starship's Unlimited, and Holy God was it just not approachable. I load it up, and I'm staring at some incomprehensible system map with a bunch of buttons on the bottom row and no other help. Felt more like a 4X came (research trees, etc.).

  12. #12
    Account closed New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoofyChop
    I don't know and that's a strange question.
    It's not that strange a question when you consider that you have to pay an extra $10 for them to mail you a CD. If I don't buy said CD, will I be able to burn myself a backup? I got screwed by that with Front Office Football.

  13. #13
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    The 80s starship combat game Cosmic Balance offered a very high degree of customization --- including options you could fit to your piloting style, like selectable firing arcs for most weapons --- but it was strictly 2D and much more of a tactical/arena TB wargame than today's space games. Ship design was >50% of the game, really.

    Little choirs of Qt3ers have called for a Cosmic Balance remake in the past. When will the cold, empty universe listen?

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    Terminus had a lot of customization. Admittedly the base hulls were constant, but there was a lot of different stuff you could do within any given framework - stealth ships, missile boats, recon, fast and light and maneuverable, heavily armored, etc. All depends on what you need to do on any given trip.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaconTastesGood
    I tried to play the demo of Starship's Unlimited, and Holy God was it just not approachable. I load it up, and I'm staring at some incomprehensible system map with a bunch of buttons on the bottom row and no other help. Felt more like a 4X came (research trees, etc.).
    It's worth the minimal effort it takes to figure it out. It IS a 4X game though, which is probably not what you're looking for. Starships Unlimited is a superb game.

  16. #16
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    I haven't played it, but what about Space Rangers 2? Alot of the discussion about it seemed to have been about ship design.

    Another thought is Nexus: the Jupiter Incident. The ship design aspect was pretty light, but it was an excellent tactical spaceship game overall. They did shoot themselves in the foot with the mission chosen for the demo though; the actual game is much better.

    And there's always Starships unlimited, which if you're after ship design seems like an odd game to pass over.

  17. #17
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    SSI's "Cosmic Balance."

    Awesome game. Design your own ships, then take them into turn-based, animated combat.

    Came with the Enterprise vs. Reliant as a sample encounter.

  18. #18
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    Can't find Cosmic Balance anywhere, not even on Moby Games -- is there a Web site dedicated to it? No listings on eBay either.

  19. #19
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    Yeah it seems very interesting.

    Found this though...

    Back in like 1982 or 1983, when I was a geeky high school freshman, my dad
    (a fellow early PC pioneer), sent me my first space game for my Apple II+, a
    humble SSI creation called "Cosmic Balance".

    This no-frills game started off by allowing you to design a spaceship (or a
    handful of them, IIRC) an engrossing process involving managing things like
    several differen types of guns (with different FIRE ARCS!!! a narrower arc
    took up less structure points but might not be brought to bear enough),
    armor and force shields (you could also concentrate these on one part or
    another of your ship... depending on how you tended to fight), power
    sources, engines for speed and maneuvering (do you put all the engines in
    the back for acceleration or more up front where you can turn and maneuver),
    ECM and ECCM systems, missiles and mines, fighter drones, security systems,
    marines and etc.

    The action was turn based, you gave your orders to move, maneuver and / or
    fire over the course of a turn, which was broken into something like 16
    segments IIRC, then your ships and the enemy ships would move and fight.

    At the time I thought it was a pretty cool game, it was quite engrossing and
    you could enjoy it for hours on end, the AI was fairly good. It was limited
    and kind of hokey in that the ships looped from one side of the screen to
    another (no more hokey than a screen with boundaries though) and you were
    very limited in the number of ships you could use... and the graphics were
    of course quite limited. Eventually as with all my old Apple PC games, the
    fragile Disk got too ragged and the game simply wouldn't load any more. All
    in all impressive, but i thought of it as a taste of the much greater games
    would exist in the future. Little did I know this would remain the best
    space game I'd ever played a full 23 years later!!!

    Fast forward a bit to Masters of Orion. Here were a couple of pretty good
    4X space games, WITH ship design, but the ship design and ship-combat
    frankly paled in comparison to what Cosmic Balance did a decade earlier.
    It seemed like a step in the right direction, but it was corny and lacked
    that realistic detail and added levels of design other than just sitcking
    different modular components in. Ultimately it was a lot more about how
    high your tech was really than anything you did to manage how your ship was
    designed. I hoped this was just the begining.

    But rather than getting better in my book, most of the 4X space games that I
    tried in the next several years were mediocre, and instead of improving the
    ship combat and ship design aspect of their game, always my personal
    favorite, (the part that made the rest of the exploration and economy and
    warfare really come to life) they either eliminated ship design altogether
    or vastly simplified it, and forced you into restrictions of various silly
    storyline fantasy races. I dont want to control a fleet of crystaline Heavy
    Zyrconian Dreadnaughts, or fuzzy Antaroid Warp Pustules.. I want to make up
    my own vessels which are far better than either, something I could recognize
    from a space opera..



    Bottom line, are there any good 4X space games, or simple tactical games,
    either currently available or in development, which do allow you to design
    your own ships and fight them against those of your opponent, and have good
    space combat that you can actually control?


    DB
    Edit and someone suggested...
    Space Empire IV and V (maybe, I know V will be 3D, I dunno if they are going
    automated combat or not, but it wouldn't surprise me)
    http://www.malfador.com/se4.html


    Nm didnt work.
    Last edited by Marcus; 02-07-2006 at 04:07 PM.

  20. #20
    New Romantic
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    I'm not sure there was ever a DOS version of Cosmic Balance. You could always play the Apple II version via emulation.

  21. #21
    Mad Chester
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    Starship Tycoon is a good game.

    Also the old Sundog game is worth checking out for ideas.

  22. #22
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    What was the recent-ish game that was trying to be basically Star Fleet Battles all over again?

    Oh yeah, Starfleet Command. Never played it, but sure seems pertinent...?

  23. #23
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    I have nothing to add except that every time you post more questions asking about our space sim preferences, I get really excited.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RepoMan
    What was the recent-ish game that was trying to be basically Star Fleet Battles all over again?

    Oh yeah, Starfleet Command. Never played it, but sure seems pertinent...?
    Except that you couldn't design your ship...

  25. #25
    Mad Chester
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    What I really want to see is a space sim where you can write code, e.g., modding your ship's firmware to improve the UI or to tailor it for a specific situation. The idea is in the spirit of macros in MMORPGs, except it would actually be a sensible part of the game world.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper
    Except that you couldn't design your ship...
    Hmm. Guess I misremembered that then. Couldn't you design your ship in SFB?

  27. #27
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel
    I have nothing to add except that every time you post more questions asking about our space sim preferences, I get really excited.
    don't. I'm working on something horribly low tech that would fit right in with Starflight II and SC2 technology =)

  28. #28
    New Romantic
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    There was also an Atari 8-bit version of Cosmic Balance, and there was also a Cosmic Balance II. I'm pretty sure the Atari version didn't recurse ships to the other side of the screen as described above for the Apple II.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaconTastesGood
    don't. I'm working on something horribly low tech that would fit right in with Starflight II and SC2 technology =)
    That is far from being a bad thing.

  30. #30
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    Best version of Cosmic Balance was the C64 version.

    Notable as being the only game I ever cracked. The game's loader was written in BASIC, and the copy protection (a check for a bad disk sector) could be defeated with a REM statement. :)

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