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Thread: Samsung DLP woes

  1. #1
    Neo Acoustic
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    Samsung DLP woes

    After the abrupt death of my 13 year-old RCA TV, I decided to spring for one of them fancy-pants HDTVs. After hearing all the great things about DLPs I decided to go with a Samsung 42'' rear projection DLP.

    Very nice TV. Great picture. Plenty bright.

    But I can't play Guitar Hero anymore. There's lag, even with "Game Mode" enabled. Everything else appears to play fine. I swear I can notice it with other games, but my mind might be playing tricks on me.

    With Guitar Hero it's obvious. Normally, I can blow through Cowboys From Hell on Medium with no problems, but I can't even get through the song now.

    I know this issue has been mentioned before, but I just wanted to know if anyone else is experiencing this and/or has any solutions. I poked around the Service Menu but I don't what to mess with it unless I know what I'm doing. If I can't make it work, I'll be taking it back this weekend.

    And Bob Mayer? I know I was just bragging about my cool new TV to you today, but that was before I tried playing Guitar Hero) :(

  2. #2
    New Romantic
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    At work we had the same problem, with the exact same game, and the company sprang for some sort of expensive encoder box that could convert the signal fast enough to not cause display lag. As far as I know there is no other fix.

  3. #3
    Account closed New Romantic
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    Yeah, my parents have a Samsung DLP, and the lag is very noticeable even with Game Mode on. It wreaked havoc on our Monkey Bowling skills over Thanksgiving.

  4. #4
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    A buddy of mine has the same problem with his 61" Samsung DLP and Guitar Hero. An FAE from samsung showed up at his house today, who explained that any interlaced signal going into the Samsung DLP was going to be lagged.

  5. #5
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    Question for those in the know: Will a line double box upconvert the interlaced signal fast enough to get around the problem?

  6. #6
    New Romantic
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    If it's truely the interlacing causing the issue then I'd guess it would?

    Try a 480p ps2 game and see if it also lags to check and see if it only happens with interlaced signals.
    http://www.hdtvarcade.com/ps2list.htm

  7. #7
    Social Worker ARogan's Avatar
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    Maybe try turning DNIe off and see if that helps:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...EA#post6628276

  8. #8
    New Romantic
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    I posted about this in the Guitar Hero thread. I have a Samsung DLP hooked up to a Yamaha receiver, and if you turn up the sound on both, there's an audible delay bewteen the two. It was screwing with playing Guitar Hero big-time.

    Workaround: mute the TV, use the receiver sound only. It sounds better anyway. :)

  9. #9
    Neo Acoustic
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    Yeah, I tried a 480p game and if there's lag, it's really hard to tell. The trouble is, Guitar Hero requires such exact timing that any lag will throw you off.

    Sigh... anyone got any TV recommendations?

  10. #10
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    Woah. Apparently the Samsung has 500ms video lag with Guitar Hero. So that's how unplayable it is.

    Sluggo, how does that help you play guitar hero? It's not the audio that's lagged, but the video.

  11. #11
    Account closed World's End Supernova
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    I'd guess that it is the interlaced input thing, because I play DDR Ultramix on my Samsung DLP, and it works fine (and DDR is definitely the type of game, like Guitar Hero, where you'd notice even the tiniest bit of lag).

    That kind of blows WRT Guitar Hero, though. I wonder why that game isn't 480p? It's not like it has system-crunching graphics or anything.

  12. #12
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    It's funny, Guitar Hero's predecessor, Amplitude, was the reason why I had to return my Samsung DLP :(
    When I was researching the problem on the AVS Forums, someone mentioned that they had some success with an upconvertor, but the things cost $300

  13. #13
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sones
    I'd guess that it is the interlaced input thing, because I play DDR Ultramix on my Samsung DLP, and it works fine (and DDR is definitely the type of game, like Guitar Hero, where you'd notice even the tiniest bit of lag).

    That kind of blows WRT Guitar Hero, though. I wonder why that game isn't 480p? It's not like it has system-crunching graphics or anything.
    it is a ps2 game, and the ps2 has the worst progressive scan support of any console (of the ones that *can* support it, obviously)

    Dreamcast has more progressive scan support (almost 100% of the games) and it doesnt even have a cable that easily allows it.

  14. #14
    Neo Acoustic
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    Maybe try turning DNIe off and see if that helps:

    Unfortunately, the service menu on my HL-R4266W doesn't have those setting to adjust.

  15. #15
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    Greg,

    Are you going in the component inputs on the Samsung?

  16. #16
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    Ouch, that hurts, GregB. I've got a Samsung DLP and have zero problems with Guitar Hero. FWIW.

    I'm definitely using component cables and not running sound through the speakers, so I don't know if Denny's and sluggo's suggestions would work, but they're worth a try.

    -Tom

  17. #17
    Neo Acoustic
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    I'm using component, Denny. Wait, that's the green, blue, and red video cables, right? That's what I'm using.

    Tom, you and your TV suck. What Model TV do you have again?

  18. #18
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    Ah, yep, that's component.

    I haven't tried Guitar Hero yet, but my Samsung HLP is fine with other PS2 games so far. I'll be bummed if I do have problems, as I'm looking forward to GH.

  19. #19
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    My buddy just hooked up his laptop's VGA output to the Samsung DLP's VGA port, and he said the lag there was very slight. So, he's going to try to find a less expensive composite/S-Video to VGA converter and see if Guitar Hero is playable that way.

  20. #20
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    Greg, I have a 50" DLP called the "HL-R5067W". As far as I know, shouldn't that be the same version as yours? I got it a month or so ago based on a few recommendations, including a thread on this forum (I think me and Ben Sones have the same TV). But the weird thing is that maybe there is and I've just adjusted?

    I've been able to do DDR -- umm, I mean, well, I don't actually play that stuff, but, you know, it runs and all, as I've verified for, umm testing purposes -- and Guitar Hero on it.

    But now you've got me wondering. I recently got back from a trip where I played Guitar Hero on someone else's TV, and I seem to recall thinking that I needed to adjust my timing. So maybe I do have a lag issue and I've just adapted?

    At any rate, Guitar Hero is perfectly playable, as are various DDRs, so if I have a problem, I'm so rhtmymically impaired that I haven't noticed. We play Guitar Hero at Shoot Club and the guys don't have much problem picking up the timing, so if I have lag, it's at least consistent. Rats, how would I know?

    -Tom, suddenly eyeing his TV with suspicion

  21. #21
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    Yeah. Tom has the only model of Samsung DLP that doesn't exhibit the lag. In theory, Samsung is supposed to make use of that newer design to produce the remainder of their line-up, but it hasn't happened yet.

    Tom, there's no way you could overlook 0.6 seconds of lag. Although, a few generation of children forced to play Guitar Hero on a laggy DLP might give rise to a master race of ESP-enhanced humanoids, and that might be kind of cool for a while.
    Last edited by Lunch of Kong; 01-19-2006 at 12:57 AM.

  22. #22
    Battle Dancer How To Go
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wong
    Yeah. Tom has the only model of Samsung DLP that doesn't exhibit the lag.
    Seriously? Has this been verified somewhere? I started this thread thinking "Crap, my roommate's got a Samsung DLP, and I was this close to getting Guitar Hero, but now I guess that's out" but it turns out we've got the exact same TV as Tom. Is there really hope?

  23. #23
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    The HLP5067 is the only HLP-series Samsung DLP that doesn't have lag.

    How to verify it? Well, if you have a Playstation2 hooked up to the thing now, and it doesn't take a half-second for your button push to register an on-screen Hulk smash, Katamari Roll, or a menu item selection, you've verified it.

    Certain models in the newer HLR series are not supposed to have lag either, but I don't know anyone who has one that I can ask.

  24. #24
    Neo Acoustic
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    The newer Smasung DLPs have a "Game Mode" which is supposed to reduce lag. Mine has this feature. I haven't done extensive testing, but that does appear to help. But it doesn't eliminate it. Everything I've tried works fine, except Guitar Hero and that's a dealbreaker for me. I love this game.

  25. #25
    New Romantic
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    Greg, on two Samsung TVs that we've tested on -- mine at home, and one in the office -- the problem we've had is audio lag. With a receiver plugged in and the sound on both the TV and receiver going, the TV audio has been a tiny beat behind the receiver in both cases. This was also a problem with Amplitude.

    The workaround in both cases was to just mute the TV and use the sound from the receiver (I'm using optical cables for both). Sound and video seem totally in sync now.

  26. #26
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    Greg: According to Samsung, "game mode" reduces the lag by 30%. So instead of 500ms lag, it's 350ms lag, or whatever.

    Sluggo: The sound is behind the receiver because the TV automatically delays the audio signal to match it's inherent image lag. So, when you use the receiver, the sound you hear will be ahead of the image. What model Samsung is this?

  27. #27
    New Romantic
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    I have the HLN-5065 at home. I'd have to check the office model number -- I think it's the 5067.

    Whatever the case, the out-of-sync problem was noticed by several people playing Guitar Hero, and using the receiver's sound over the TV's produced a unanimous improvement.

    (presumably because you're playing in rhythm with the direct audio signal from the PS2, and not being routed through the TV)

  28. #28
    Neo Acoustic
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    Sluggo: It's my understanding that the HLN series had an audio/video sync problem on occasion. The HLR series have well synched A/V but everything (both Audio and Video) suffer a delay because they are both being buffered while the chip grabs both passes of video and upscales it to 720. What you're seeing and hearing is a split second behind what the PS2 thinks it's displaying.


    Update: I brought my PS2 and Guitar Hero over to Circuit City. I tested the Samsung 50'' (HL-R5067W) making sure I set the component input to "game mode." I played a little better but was still missing a lot of notes. Not nearly as much as on the 42'' but still enough to make be unhappy with the results. I can see how a total Guitar Hero poser like Tom Chick wouldn't be able to notice, but Rock Gods like myself expect more :)

    Then I plugged everything into a Sony 42'' LCD RP (KDF-E42A10) I'm pretty sure this is the one Bob Cherub owns and raves about. This one had zero lag. In fact, I managed to get 5 Stars on "Cowboys From Hell" on medium, with a crowd of people watching. I thought the picture looked great, too. From a normal viewing distance there was no noticable "screendoor" effect. Of couse, if you're 2 feet away you can see it.

    Before I pull the trigger on this, does anyone else have anything good or bad to say about the KDF-E42A10? Bob Cherub, feel free to chime in.

  29. #29
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    My buddy says that if you get the Sony, you will be piissed in a couple of years when the colors start to wash out from the dyes breaking down. "that is exactly why I didn't pick up the sony. That, and it sucks at making true blacks.."

  30. #30
    Social Worker ARogan's Avatar
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    That sounds more like people just adjusting and using audio cues to hit the notes in Guitar Hero rather than visual cues. The best place to test for lag is in menu selection. Just sit there and move your controller up and down selecting different menu items. Have the sound on too. If you can see and hear the menu change AFTER you press the directon on the control pad, you have lag.

    Try the 40-42" LCD's or plasma's. I haven't heard of any lag issues on those sets.

    I've been pretty happy with my samsung lnr-409d 40" lCD and we have been playing lots of guitar hero (stuck on the last 5 songs on hard. Damn that I can't master hammer downs or pull offs. My fingers are always rushing).

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