Hands-on Xbox 360

[Dave Long]

So I played Call of Duty 2 today on the 360 at the local EB. The first thing I noticed was the controller being very close to the S-Controller for the original system. It's pretty nice. I hit that big silver button in the center when I was done playing and sure enough, the new menus for the integrated Live stuff poppped up right overtop of the game and paused what I was playing. It seems a little like overkill since my usage of it will amount to checking if friends are online or talking with them to set up a game, but it's ok.

The game itself was unimpressive. There is LOTS of shouting in the level they allow you to play and it's got piles of jaggies. Hopefully there will be antialiasing in the final shipping game because this demo was completely underwhelming. The AI was exactly the same as every other WWII first person shooter I've ever played so no real improvements of any kind there. It was all the usual scripting stuff where you run through like a rat in a maze. The "YOU ARE THERE" stuff was ok, but nothing more than what's been seen in Battlefield 2 on the PC and other similar games.

Worst of all, it was making me nauseous, just like many console first person shooters seem to do. There's just something about the movement in these games that is sometimes not quite right and sends my brain into convulsions that result in a rolling boat effect on my guts. It might've been all the jaggies... I've felt that caused problems before. It also might be the need to constantly go from a down-the-barrel view to a regularly hip-fired view? So many FPS games want you to be sniping all the time anymore and I think that helps aggravate my stomach because to perform well, you've got to constantly be switching.

I honestly hate to be so negative, but I walked away from the game thinking I'd just play it on PC where it will look and run better (on my rig) than it does on the 360. Plus I never have problems with FPS games on the PC. Like...none. Never get sick at all. It really isn't very impressive graphically compared to current Xbox games and especially compared to current PC titles. It's just one game though, and probably not one people here care about, but that's my take anyway.

On a side note, they have so many pre-orders for the system that there are people who will not get it on day one. Like, they claim to have so many they don't even know if all of them will get it before Christmas. I wonder if they're all paid in full? How many of them are planning to turn around and sell it on eBay? Is everyone rich but me? Does everyone trade in their old systems and move on when a new one comes out? I guess we'll see how well it does when it ships, but it looks like Microsoft will be rolling in money from the launch soon.

--Dave

[Mark Asher]

I honestly hate to be so negative, but I walked away from the game thinking I'd just play it on PC where it will look and run better (on my rig) than it does on the 360. Plus I never have problems with FPS games on the PC. Like...none. Never get sick at all. It really isn't very impressive graphically compared to current Xbox games and especially compared to current PC titles. It's just one game though, and probably not one people here care about, but that's my take anyway.

Has there ever been anything promised for the 360 games that's anything new? It's just a more powerful graphics engine, isn't it? Aren't we still playing the kind of 3D games we could have played on the original PSX, just ones that look nicer?

The only thing that interests me about the 360 is that Microsoft as a console publisher is a bit closer to PC-style console games than the other publishers.

[Qenan]

Has there ever been anything promised for the 360 games that's anything new? It's just a more powerful graphics engine, isn't it? Aren't we still playing the kind of 3D games we could have played on the original PSX, just ones that look nicer?

Isn't the beef this time around that the engine isn't even that much more powerful?

Anyhow, I'm sure others will disagree, but I think there is a lot of truth in your comment.

[steve]

According to people I've spoken with (um, okay, it was Mark Rein), both the 360 and PS3 graphics chips are truly next-generation. However, like almost every console launch, few of the launch games will take advatange of all of the new doo-dads due to the crunch of getting the game done on time. (And a Microsoft dude let it slip last week that few of the launch games are multithreaded, which means they're looking at Xbox-level power.)

Call of Duty 2 looks exactly like it does on the PC, at least based on the demo (and actually, less impressive than on a videocard that costs less than a 360, for those keeping track of these things). But when I was in Gamestop watching people, they were all "ooh, ahh" over the graphics. I suspect it had as much to do with the monitor as the game, though.

[Simpilot]

I have a 360 preordered at EB, but I think I'm gonna change my mind. There really isn't anything that floats my boat at launch, so I'll just wait a couple of months and let things settle down. Somehow I think things like Xbox Live will crumble the first week or so. I'll just spend my time playing The Movies and Age of Empires 3.

[Dave Long]

Did you pay for it in full? Can you just back out like that?

--Dave

[bago]

Live survived the Halo 2 launch. Why would it crumble for the 360?

[Marcus]

Yeah Dave if you have a preorder that you don't want you can get your money back at anytime. They can't legally lock you in like that.

As for the 360 I played with one at bestbuy last week and I was kinda impressed but I am still kinda undecided if I will buy one. I sold my second xbox last week as well so I am 1/2 towards the price but I dunno. I prolly will end up getting it because I am a big consumer whore.

I do wanna see the full list of games that will be out first day though.

[DennyA]

Given the screaming about Xbox 360 shortages (EB not having enough to fill all preorders, etc.) you'd be crazy to canel a preorder.

What you do is list it on eBay with a promise to overnight it on 11/22...

[Jason Becker]

Never understand why people who have been gaming for so long complain about being underwhelmed by the graphics and such everytime a new generation launches. For instance, can someone point me to games that looked as good as God of War on the PS2 when it launched or how about RE4 on the Gamecube? I believed people complained at how poorly the games looked at first. Nobody is going to make 100% use of the system in the first games(especially being mulit-core CPU systems). All you have to do is look at Gears to see the 360 is more than capable of "nest gen" graphics.

I also love the side shot of complaing about nausea in the one game you played even though its just your own bodoes problem and has nothing to do with the 360 itself.

[Wholly Schmidt]

So this thread should actually be titled "Call of Duty 2 hands on, oh and here's two things about the Xbox 360 that you already knew."

[Jason Cross]

Has there ever been anything promised for the 360 games that's anything new? It's just a more powerful graphics engine, isn't it? Aren't we still playing the kind of 3D games we could have played on the original PSX, just ones that look nicer?

In short, no. Take Halo, a launch Xbox game. It wasn't just a PSX game, only prettier. The PSX could never have handled levels that large - you would have sat at a loading screen every five minutes. It could also not have handled the AI and physics that make Halo so dynamic, and make every firefight different from the last.

Of course, the same is true of the PS2. GTA 3 could have been a very VERY ugly PS1 game, if they didn't want to have any physics to speak of, and wanted the whole living-city traffic and pedestrian AI to be a lot worse.

In concept every game could have been done to some degree ever since we moved to 3D. But as CPU and graphics horsepower expands, and as developers get more memory to play with, many of the concepts that could never have been done to a satisfactory level become possible. And of course, the immersion increases.

As for Dave's comments: well, it seems like his COD2 experience is just like mine has been on the PC... It's not really any better than COD1, just louder, prettier, noisier. Everything is turned up to 11. But there's no great AI breakthrough or anything. It all seems like more of a knock on the game than on the 360.

I'm curious about the piles of jaggies bit. I've heard this comment from some others who have played kiosks, accompanied with "unimpressed by the graphics," only for them to find out the kiosk was not set up correctly. The monitor part was never set to the 720p mode, so it was effectively displaying 480p widescreen, and everything looked like ass. Some have gone back to find the kiosks readjusted, and have come away more impressed.

At the same time, I wonder if using a nice crisp LCD that you're only like two feet away from is going to be a problem. Even at 1280x720, a game will look jagged on a 23" LCD if you're right up on it.

Simpilot: what Denny said. Pick up your preorder and turn it around for a nice profit on ebay, if you don't want it.

As a side note...

How many of us here have ever really enjoyed a game when playing it at a kiosk (either at E3 or in a store)? I, for one, never really do. You don't get enough time with it, it's uncomfortable, it's wierd to hold the controller with the rigid attachment to the kiosk, the sound is either too low or it's too noisy in the store, you name it. The most I can ever get from a kiosk experience is to get an idea if a game has interesting features or seems promising. But I never actually have any fun. This goes for all consoles. Am I alone in this?

[Wholly Schmidt]

As a side note...

How many of us here have ever really enjoyed a game when playing it at a kiosk (either at E3 or in a store)? I, for one, never really do. You don't get enough time with it, it's uncomfortable, it's wierd to hold the controller with the rigid attachment to the kiosk, the sound is either too low or it's too noisy in the store, you name it. The most I can ever get from a kiosk experience is to get an idea if a game has interesting features or seems promising. But I never actually have any fun. This goes for all consoles. Am I alone in this?

No, you're not alone, not as far as the situation you described at least. I mean, I'm young enough that I can remember going with my parents to Target just because I wanted to play the Genesis or SNES on display, but I was a kid and that was an entirely different set of circumstances.

[Guido Jones]

FWIW, I didn't notice any major differences between COD2 on a Xbox 360 vs my home PC - it might just be monitor problems as someone else suggested.

And Xbox Live will not crumble at launch as was earlier suggested in this thread.

[Flowers]

As a side note...

How many of us here have ever really enjoyed a game when playing it at a kiosk (either at E3 or in a store)? I, for one, never really do. You don't get enough time with it, it's uncomfortable, it's wierd to hold the controller with the rigid attachment to the kiosk, the sound is either too low or it's too noisy in the store, you name it. The most I can ever get from a kiosk experience is to get an idea if a game has interesting features or seems promising. But I never actually have any fun. This goes for all consoles. Am I alone in this?

No, you're not alone, not as far as the situation you described at least. I mean, I'm young enough that I can remember going with my parents to Target just because I wanted to play the Genesis or SNES on display, but I was a kid and that was an entirely different set of circumstances.

They had a Sega Master System Demo set at the Walmart in my town. You could play 30 or so seconds and it would go back to the main menu, but it had about 15 games on it. My goal? A perfect play of Alex Kidd level 1 in under 30 seconds, achieved. Took months.

[RickH]

As a side note...

How many of us here have ever really enjoyed a game when playing it at a kiosk (either at E3 or in a store)? I, for one, never really do. You don't get enough time with it, it's uncomfortable, it's wierd to hold the controller with the rigid attachment to the kiosk, the sound is either too low or it's too noisy in the store, you name it. The most I can ever get from a kiosk experience is to get an idea if a game has interesting features or seems promising. But I never actually have any fun. This goes for all consoles. Am I alone in this?

I had zero desire for a PS2 until I played Ratchet & Clank at an in-store kiosk. I bought both about 6 months later.

[Charles]

Has there ever been anything promised for the 360 games that's anything new? It's just a more powerful graphics engine, isn't it? Aren't we still playing the kind of 3D games we could have played on the original PSX, just ones that look nicer?

In short, no. Take Halo, a launch Xbox game. It wasn't just a PSX game, only prettier. The PSX could never have handled levels that large - you would have sat at a loading screen every five minutes. It could also not have handled the AI and physics that make Halo so dynamic, and make every firefight different from the last.

Yeah but Halo was an extremely unlikely occurence. With the exception of perhaps Super Mario World on the SNES, no console has ever launched with as good a title.

Most of the time, launch titles suck. Plain and simple. Developers have to rush, they have to work with beta hardware for most of their development time, and often don't even get proper documentation.

Now, I realize this won't really apply to the 360, but short dev cycles and little time with the hardware is still an issue.

Like all consoles, there's little reason to buy one until the first run of good games start coming out... which is often 4-6 months after launch.

[Podunk]

I've heard this comment from some others who have played kiosks, accompanied with "unimpressed by the graphics," only for them to find out the kiosk was not set up correctly. The monitor part was never set to the 720p mode, so it was effectively displaying 480p widescreen, and everything looked like ass.

That's how it was set up at my local Wal Mart. CoD2 at that kiosk looked far shittier than the game running at 800x600 and medium detail on my aging PC. It also took them an extra two weeks to install the fix from MS to repair the interference with their hand scanners. But then my local Wal Mart's electronics department is run by a bunch of stupid old women, so I don't know what else I expected.

[Angrycoder]

Has there ever been anything promised for the 360 games that's anything new? It's just a more powerful graphics engine, isn't it? Aren't we still playing the kind of 3D games we could have played on the original PSX, just ones that look nicer?

In short, no. Take Halo, a launch Xbox game. It wasn't just a PSX game, only prettier. The PSX could never have handled levels that large - you would have sat at a loading screen every five minutes. It could also not have handled the AI and physics that make Halo so dynamic, and make every firefight different from the last.

Yeah but Halo was an extremely unlikely occurence. With the exception of perhaps Super Mario World on the SNES, no console has ever launched with as good a title.

You forgot about Mario 64, possibly the most innovative launch title ever.

[Mattc0m]

Dave Long preaching about the impending doom of the Xbox 360.

What else is new?

[Jason McMaster]

To be fair to Dave, I don't think he was proclaiming the death of the 360. I believe he was making more of a statement about CoD 2.

[Moore]

As a side note...

How many of us here have ever really enjoyed a game when playing it at a kiosk (either at E3 or in a store)? I, for one, never really do. You don't get enough time with it, it's uncomfortable, it's wierd to hold the controller with the rigid attachment to the kiosk, the sound is either too low or it's too noisy in the store, you name it. The most I can ever get from a kiosk experience is to get an idea if a game has interesting features or seems promising. But I never actually have any fun. This goes for all consoles. Am I alone in this?

Actually I totally do that. e3 decides like 90% of my game purchases. And yes I know they arent done etc... but if they are fun in THAT environment, it will be money well spent, if it sucks, runs poorly or is buggy, I know to wait and get some opinions or for a price drop..

[RobotPants]

Even if the first run of games look "as good as on PC", I think that's fantastic. Current-gen PC games look great and I don't play my Xbox or PS2 as much as I used to because of it. But judging by footage of games set to come out later for the 360, I'm not going to get anywhere near that on my PC until I spend lots more money on upgrades. Plus, the console experience is much different.

[Charles]

You forgot about Mario 64, possibly the most innovative launch title ever.

I didn't like it at all, thus I leave it out.

[Matthew Gallant]

Did anybody see the Call of Duty 2 TV commercial, and how it is exactly the same as the Brothers in Arms 2 commercial? It's pathetic.

[TriggerHappy]

Dave Long preaching about the impending doom of the Xbox 360.

What else is new?

Wrong thread?

I guess we'll see how well it does when it ships, but it looks like Microsoft will be rolling in money from the launch soon.

[Jason Cross]

Yeah but Halo was an extremely unlikely occurence. With the exception of perhaps Super Mario World on the SNES, no console has ever launched with as good a title.

Well, Mark wasn't really complaining about launch titles. His post was about whether or not any of these consoles ever really offer anything new, beyond PSX games with better graphics. My answer is yes, yes they definitely do.

Forza Motorsport is a great example. The physics and AI in that game simply could not be done on a lesser CPU, and they directly contribute (some would say define) the gameplay.

Having said that, let's not discount better graphics as though they don't contribute to our enjoyment of the game. We've had the "graphics vs. gameplay" discussion here several times before - they're linked at the hip, and can not be so easily removed from one another. More to the point: the exact same game, with far better graphics, will be more enjoyable to play.

Like all consoles, there's little reason to buy one until the first run of good games start coming out... which is often 4-6 months after launch.

Well that's a matter of opinion, and in the case of both the PS2 and Xbox, a few million people disagree with you. Right off the bat I think the 360 has at least three or four games that look promising enough to be worth grabbing the console, but that's just me and my tastes.

[Jason Cross]

To be fair to Dave, I don't think he was proclaiming the death of the 360. I believe he was making more of a statement about CoD 2.

Agreed.

I mean he's already made it clear that he's unimpressed by everything he's seen of all the launch titles. That's not news. But he's certainly not making a claim about the system's overall popularity, success, or even quality. It was a judgement of a single game, and a PC port at that.

I'm still curious if the display was set up correctly, though.

[skyride]

I'm curious about the piles of jaggies bit. I've heard this comment from some others who have played kiosks, accompanied with "unimpressed by the graphics," only for them to find out the kiosk was not set up correctly. The monitor part was never set to the 720p mode, so it was effectively displaying 480p widescreen, and everything looked like ass. Some have gone back to find the kiosks readjusted, and have come away more impressed.

Good point. I've seen things like this happen. For example, I saw GT3 looking like crap running at a store and had to set it myself to 1080i.

It could still be the game though. A friend of mine played King Kong on 360 and said it looked better than any PC game (and he has a pretty powerful rig).

[Kevin Grey]

It could still be the game though. A friend of mine played King Kong on 360 and said it looked better than any PC game (and he has a pretty powerful rig).

Eh, King Kong on the 360 looks exactly like the PC version except it features lots and lots of shiny specular highlighting. Nice looking to be sure but not spectacular. Then again, the guy watching me play over my shoulder couldn't stop ooh and aahing so I'm guessing that most people haven't seen modern PC games on top of the line hardware.