Reply With QuoteWe already covered this in an earlier thread:4. Someone please explain to me the burning puppets at the beginning. Huh?
The most curious thing about Tim Burton's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is how many young people like it when you consider:
PLOT/CHARACTER/STYLE INCONSISTENCIES:
1. Wonka and the Oompa Loompas seem to know who is going to be eliminated at each turn. (There are several explicit mentions of this fact in the film) So, he either does not know who is to be eliminated and this is a needless red herring. Or he does know who is to be eliminated and therefore why send out the golden tickets in the first place? In either case the "testing" aspect of the first film is completely lost here.
2. Wonka is painted as a family hater. He hates little children. He hates parents. This is no wonder given his upbringing with Christopher Lee's dentist dad. But then after the extremely anticlimactic emotional ending with pops, why oh why does he have a change of heart and decide to live with Charlie and his family?? Wouldn't he want to live with his father who he has had an emotional breakthrough with. And why is he continuing to live in the factory? I thought he was going to bail after seeing the grey in his hair. Wasn't this the point of the entire movie?
3. Wonka is a dandy. He wears gloves just like his father before him. He hates touching others and seems to be afraid of germs and kid cooties. He seals himself up in the factory like a confectionary Howard Hughes. Then why oh why the foray into Loompa land where he abandons these safeguards and even licks bug blood off a machete. Huh?
4. Someone please explain to me the burning puppets at the beginning. Huh?
5. I like movie references just as much as the next guy. I like them fine in THE SIMPSONS or any given Mel Brooks spoof.... but in a fairy tale - a movie which takes place in another place at another time which doesn't have spoofing at its heart (unlike Shrek), little gags like the 2001 WonkaVision and the Edward Scissorhands ribbon cut just take you out of the whole experience (however, I was quite pleased to be ripped out of this movie - I just wish it had come sooner).
6. And how bout that 2001 Wonka Vision? Are we to believe that it only works when there are rectangles on the screen? So this would only work with say the monolith in 2001 or assorted episodes of Sesame street.
7. The Mike TV Videogame stuff was great.....and then, where did it go? Where's the payoff? It's fine to have Mike TV stomping on candy in the candy room. And then that's it?
8. The flag montage where Charlie seems to be travelling the capitals of the world and then we find out he's in a flag museum. Soooo out of place. Great in Blazing Saddles. Not so great here.
9. Someone explain to me why the dentist's house in the present day has lost all of its surrounding buildings. Anybody?
10. Why would Grandpa Joe be so excited to go see the factory after he's already worked there? Dude, you've seen it already. Give somebody else a chance.
11. The Oompa Loompa songs while melodically interesting are completely unintelligible. I miss "Oompa Loompa Doopity Doo."
To sum up before the barrage of angry responses come flooding in, this movie represents a dividing line of sorts between people. There are people who like the 1971 version and there are people who like this one. And most of those who like this one (particularly those in their teens and under) have been raised on videogames and quick MTV cuts and are part of the generation with the highest incidents of ADD in the history of the United States. Pity.
We already covered this in an earlier thread:4. Someone please explain to me the burning puppets at the beginning. Huh?
Nice list. I'm always one for nits and the picking thereof. But, let's back up to what you wrote just prior to it:Originally Posted by bobglob
Really? What's so curious about kids liking a film in spite of a (relative) slew of nattering incongrueties? That's for bitter old internet cranks, like you and me. I'm guessing you didn't quite mean that, unless you really do want everyone - even kids - to dislike something you dislike.
Whatever, dude. You totally watched Bugs Bunny as a kid. Those were only 7 minutes long at a stretch. And you totally loved stupid films like Megaforce, Invasion USA and Krull. I hate to break it on you like this Chumly, but you were raised on videogames and MTV, too.
You forgot The Ice Pirates. But Krull kicked the ass of all the other wanna-bes you mentioned.
Thanks for proving my point, Sidd: there is discrimination and dissention, even amongst shitty films.You forgot The Ice Pirates. But Krull kicked the ass of all the other wanna-bes you mentioned.
I could probably explain some of the other ones, too, but I'm choosing this one. When Willy says he's going to run away, Dad says "Fine, but I won't be here when you get back."
Sure enough, after Willy's trip through the flags of the world exhibit, he comes back and the flat is gone. Dad moved the entire house out to the middle of nowhere. He said he would.
Side point. The lead actor in Krull is the general manager of my ex-gym in Culver City (Spectrum in Howard Hughes). Or at least was as of six months ago when I quit.
No kidding. I was a kid in the seventies and a teenager in the eighties, and the vast majority of what was produced for kids in those decades was pure, unadulterated crap. Kids have it much better today, what with your Powerpuff Girls and Spongebob Squarepantses and so forth. Hell, Spy Kids is a better movie than everything I watched as a child put together, to say nothing of an out-and-out masterpiece like The Incredibles.Whatever, dude. You totally watched Bugs Bunny as a kid. Those were only 7 minutes long at a stretch. And you totally loved stupid films like Megaforce, Invasion USA and Krull. I hate to break it on you like this Chumly, but you were raised on videogames and MTV, too.
Let me put it this way. Now: Justice League Unlimited. Then: The Super-Friends. I rest my case.
But then Batman: TAS, now, The Batman. :lol:
Anyway, I really don't think Charlie and the chocolate factory was suppose to make sense the way you're nit-picking about. Think about as some sort of morality fantasy parable. That work for you? Cool.
Candy isn't supposed to make sense. That's why it's candy.
So he moved the whole house. Now I dislike the movie even more.
See, I think there's just this generation of people who were raised on crap, defended it to death, and when a silly and funny movie with a touch of modern comedy sensibilities (ironic references and non-sequitors) comes out, they feel compelled to defend their crap by nitpick a funny and silly movie for being funny and silly.
People should be happy that kids are getting irony before they're sullen teenagers. When some ten year old is writing a faq for his favorite game, he analyzing an arbitrary ruleset, finding its limits, and writing a structured document detailing said abstractions. Ten year old technical writers. Teachers in our day were struggling to work that out of a book report from high school graduates. Such a wealth of complex data to absorb. How many kids in the 70's knew other kids outside of their county? How many kids today play xbox live with kids outside of their county? This is how you make the next generation smarter than the last.
Spoken like a man who's never actually been to gamefaqs.com. We've got some messed up kids.
He was also one of the de facto leaders of the Maquis and former Starfleet security officer on DS9.Side point. The lead actor in Krull is the general manager of my ex-gym in Culver City (Spectrum in Howard Hughes). Or at least was as of six months ago when I quit.
--- Alan
Wow, did this post crack me up. Dude, have you ever even met a modern kid? Been subjected to modern children's entertainment phenomena such as Dragonball Z, Yu-Gi-Oh, and other such tripe? Today's kids are almost universally idiots, if you go by the examples present on GameFAQs and its ilk. The vast majority of the FAQs are written by older teens or people in their twenties. The kids just post barely decipherable garbage that supposedly passes for communication.
I've interacted with kids fairly often in my various jobs and by simply being an avid gamer, and I honestly believe kids today are, if anything, more ignorant than they were in my day. I know that's a massive cliché, and maybe I sound like I'm two steps away from telling them to get off my damn lawn, but I simply don't remember my 10 year old peers being unable to even type coherent English or grasp basic logic.
I agree with ignorant, but they're also a lot more aware than they were 15-20 years ago, for better or worse.
I'm not saying they're not ten year olds. It's just that we were retarded by playing gi-goe, mario, or power rangers for some of the younger kids.
They're retarded by coming up with deck strategies for yu-gi-oh, figuring out how to grief in halo2, or watching justice league.
It's a degree more complex.
A wizard did it.
Kids nowadays are substantively different than they were growing up in the 70's and here's why. There's this book called "Endangered Minds" by Jane Healey. It came out in 1990 and was a radical theory back then and now it's established fact and now often criticized for not going far enough. The basic point is this. Television and movies post MTV have changed. Substantively, Speed Racer is no better than Pokemon. But here's what different. Sesame Street now is not the same as Sesame Street back in 1970. It's not the same show. You've got rapid fire MTV cuts. Look at "Elmo's World" as an example. Remember Mr. Rogers? One continuous shot of Mr. Rogers for sometimes minutes at a time with no special effects or cutaways. This would be unheard of today. What all these rapid fire cutaways do is inhibit brain growth causing the greatest spike in ADD in the history of the world. Children growing up today raised on this type of television don't have a chance. They can't make connections. That's why SAT verbals continue to drop and movies like this damned "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" don't make any sense compared to the original and yet are preferred. More eye candy. More distraction. More rapid cutaways. But none of it makes any cohesive sense. Now if you'll excuse me....KIDS, GET OFF MY DAMN LAWN!!!!
Cheer up charlie.
I liked the movie. I like the first movie. I love them both and neither affects my way of viewing the other. When I am an old lady I'll still watch both and enjoy them.
And my attention span is just fine. So you jerks get offa my lawn. :(
Children growing up today raised on this type of television don't have a chance. They can't make connections. That's why SAT verbals continue to drop
I hate to break up your facts with actual facts, but national SAT verbal scores have remained statistically flat since the mid 70s. (Hovering around 505)
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883611.html
Eh, is there any studies that shows that rapid cutaways 'inhibits brain growth', I kind of doubt that. Isn't ADD/ADHD a relatively new diagnosis, if so it is hardly suprising that more kids gets diagnosed with it as the diagnosis gains in popularity. Using wiki I get the impression that the MBD/ADD/ADHD diagnosis started to rear it's head in earnest sometimes during the sixties, and I imagine it has become more and more popular a diagnosis as it enters public awareness.
April 2004 study appearing in the Vol. 113 of American Journal of Pediatrics.
I'm telling you this stuff is real. Google neuralplasticity if you don't believe me.
*shrug*
I don't know where you live, but here in Northern California, the kids my two daughters hang out with are nothing like this. They're smart, savvy, and literate. Sure, they go for the fads of the day, but that's no different than previous post World War 2 generations.
Also...
verbocity.com/satscores.htm
Hardly a flatline.
But can they state the nine rules for the use of capital letters?
You're kidding, right? There's no source for that data.verbocity.com/satscores.htm
I googled "neuralplasticity" and "ADHD" and this was the first hit I got. I can't think of anything more quick-cut than a modern video game.Google neuralplasticity if you don't believe me.
http://www.playattention.com/attenti...ren-with-adhd/
Sure the site has an agenda, but no more so than verbosity.com.
But Angie, Christopher Lee moves a house. He's a dentist, dammit, how can he move the house to the middle of nowhere and everything still works? He couldn't possibly get electricity and water out there, not to mention the difficulty involved in moving a structure as big as a house. I mean I was OK with MikeTV being teleported into a television, flying elevators or magic candy bird hatching chocolate eggs but a house gets moved! THIS MOVIE MAKES NO SENSE! I'M BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE IT! KIDS ARE STUPID!
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