Anyone played this yet and have any comments on the comparison with the PC? I like almost all the changes they've made, including removing the overland travel completely, adding a pre-boarding mini-game to equalise the crews and redoing the stealth mini-game, but I'm skeptical of the reduction in map-size.
I read the IGN review, and it doesn't really make it clear how they've done it - either by literally cutting the map down, or by squashing everything closer together onto a smaller space. The net result is that you travel faster, which I suppose is a good thing, having played nearly all versions of the game before now. I'm just a bit worried that the gameworld is going to feel really cramped, and I know I won't like that at all. It makes me wonder why they didn't just up the travel speed for all ships across the board, rather than perform a more radical rationalisation of the map.
Removing overland travel? That just may be the best improvement by cutting ever. That was the most frustrating part of the game for me. Not so sure if map compression is that good of an idea, though. I've played versions back to the C64 and while I've sometimes thought it takes too long for me to get from one end of the Caribbean to the other, I think those distances, besides, of course, being realistic, add to the strategic depth of the game. Just my thoughts, though.
Carl
Yeah, apparently, you now just land the ship in the appropriate place, and you're told whether you found the treasure or not.Originally Posted by copeknight
It'll certainly have an impact on how the player chooses to plan their journeys. With a smaller map and faster travel times, I would expect players to be making less realistic journeys (based on the wind direction and speed) and more zooming all over the place.Not so sure if map compression is that good of an idea, though. I've played versions back to the C64 and while I've sometimes thought it takes too long for me to get from one end of the Caribbean to the other, I think those distances, besides, of course, being realistic, add to the strategic depth of the game. Just my thoughts, though.
I'm in two minds as to whether to pick it up based on the map thing. I think there's supposed to be another (generous) patch coming for the PC version this summer, so I might just wait for that instead.
I wish they could have found a happy medium. Overland travel was often one of the more frustrating aspects of the game, but it added lots of ambience and was fun when you didn't get completely lost.Yeah, apparently, you now just land the ship in the appropriate place, and you're told whether you found the treasure or not.
I for one am glad they removed it, I was tired of seeing the same landmarks and thinking I *finally* found my treasure :). Now if they kept going with the improvements like allowing us to control more than one ship.. :wink:
I did end up getting Pirates! for Xbox, so I thought I'd quickly post some impressions, limited to comments on the port, and the differences with the PC version. I've played for about 10hrs so far.
First off, despite any negative comments below, it *is* still Pirates! and is therefore still a great game at heart. However, the port to Xbox has not been without its negatives, and chief amongst them is the framerate - it's absolutely appalling. The game stutters all the time, whether it's within in-engine cutscenes, minigames or sailing, it's very choppy. The stuttering is most noticeable during the dancing and fencing games, but also affects the sailing when the screen gets busy. The framerate gets very low in this situation, and affects control, which isn't good. Thankfully, the ship battles seem unaffected and remain smooth. The graphics are generally passable, though not as pretty as on PC, and the sound and music is identical There are now also annoying loading times associated with navigating through the menu screens, and even between screens within the status menu.
The biggest change is the size of the map, speculated upon further up in this thread. It's definitely much smaller, not geographically, but in terms of overall size. It's very squashed together, and it makes the Caribbean feel much more claustrophobic than in other versions of the game. You can sail down from Port Royale to the Spanish Main in seconds. This also has the effect of making the game a lot faster moving than on PC - so fast in fact, that I often feel like I don't have time to kick back and enjoy exploring, sailing or watching the other boats. They zip about and reach their destinations so quickly, you have to be really fast on the draw if you want to interact with them. I can't see any value in taking the navigation skill, since travel is now relatively trivial. The other effect the map change has had is that all the islands are much less distinct in shape than before, and so the gameworld has lost a lot of its character. You can see how much less defined the world is by comparing the island shapes with those seen in the treasure maps - there's often little relation between the two in terms of features.
Speaking of boats, the map changes mean you seem to see a lot less traffic, and most of it doesn't communicate with you (the little 'Ahoy, we're x days out of port and heading to Trinidad' barks the other ships would give you) nearly as much as on the PC. In fact, I only seem to see the barks from certain types of ships - those that are on their way to raid or attack another settlement, and never from general traffic. The game has also retained some of the more annoying instances of broken randomness or tedious design seen in the PC version, such as pirate treasure being buried in the same location four times in a row, and having to keep chasing Baron Raymondo to locate your lost relatives. They *really* could and should have spent time tightening all this up. There are even still some bugs left over from the PC, such as named pirates suddenly disappearing from the gameworld without your knowing or receiving credit for it.
Pirates! Xbox now has a 'campaign' of sorts - started by the Mysterious Stranger in the tavern, where you get a map with 15 X's on it, each representing a task on your quest for revenge on Montalban. The quests at every step of the way are randomised each game, and may include tasks like 'Meet the barmaid in Maracaibo', 'Capture a Sloop' or 'Find a pirate's treasure'. This is possibly the only feature from Xbox I'd like to see implemented in the PC version, perhaps via the rumoured features patch to be released this summer.
Some of the minigames have changed a little - the sneaking is now in over the shoulder 3rd person, the dancing now only involves the cardinal directions via the coloured buttons on the Xbox pad, with the diagonal moves now handled automatically by the game. Dancing is much easier as a result. The land battles are the same, as is fencing. I think they may have removed the fights with the amorous local captains in the taverns, or at least I haven't seen any yet. Treasure/Family hunting is now automatic, and more like the classic Pirates - go to the location, and you're told whether you find anything. There's no overland travel at all now.
One thing I can't remember about PC Pirates! is whether there was any cannon management at all - even configuring the number of guns on each ship. This is definitely removed from Xbox, with the player having no control at all over the cannons mounted on their ships. All ships now go into battle with their full cannon complement.
I can't really recommend Pirates! Xbox for Pirates! PC veterans, not even for the curiosity value. But, for those who have no intention of playing the PC version, but want to know what all the fuss is about, it's still the same classic game and is worth trying out, despite the host of negatives brought by this port.
If anyone has any questions, I'll be glad to try and answer.
There's no cannon management in either game; the only thing you really controlled was the number of cannon, and that was predicated on ship type and how many you had in cargo.
--- Alan
Fair enough. I thought I remembered it had changed between classic Pirates and the remake. Now it's changed again, slightly.
There was never much cannon management in the original I don't think - didn't you move them between ships or something? Jeez it's been awhile.
--- Alan
Not entirely true, Alan. Most ships didn't come with their full cannon capacity. Since you can't buy cannons in most (any?) ports, and since they were easily destroyed in battles, I'd say there was indeed cannon management in the PC version. Anyone's who's tried to fill a sweet warship to its maximum cannon capacity can tell you that!
There is, however, no cannon management of any sort in the Xbox version. Each ship type is automatically assumed to have a certain number of cannons at the start of battle. The little multiplayer ship battles actually have separate batteries of cannons on the left and right sides, each with their own reload gauge, which is cool in theory.
Also, I ran some tests on sailing times. On the PC, it took twenty nine days to cross the Caribbean from Petit Goave to Santa Marta in a sloop with consistently perpendicular wind. On the Xbox, the same trip took fourteen days.
-Tom
Eh, it doesn't take me very long to get maxed out so I never consider it to be any real form of management. You're never managing how many cannon you choose to have on a ship - that's chosen for you: it's either the maximum number your ship can mount or it's the maximum number you have currently as cargo. The only real management is how many spare cannon you decide to carry.
Lack of cannon was never a problem for me in Pirates!
--- Alan
I'm just pointing out that there is indeed cannon management in the PC version and that it's something else cut from the Xbox version.
Also, you obviously weren't playing on Swashbuckler difficulty (i.e. The One True Pirates). I remember many games where I needed to raid other ships to get cannons, only to lose some of my cannons in the battle to get cannons.
Like many things at Swashbuckler, it was a part of the gameplay that girlie-men who played at Rogue or below never had to deal with. :)
-Tom
I usually start in the middle and then rapidly move up to the hardest after I retire twice, so yeah I guess that's true relatively.
--- Alan
Overland travel was the mechanic used to attack friendly cities. How do you manage it now?
You don't.Overland travel was the mechanic used to attack friendly cities. How do you manage it now?
Obviously, console gamers would never think of attacking a friendly city. That's the sort of dastardly thing that only a PC gamer would do.
-Tom
What about Panama? Some of the cities were only accessible via the overland map. There was no way to get your ship there.....and some quests had you required to.
I think you'll find they neatly solved that problem by removing Panama.
:wink:
The main thing the XBox version for me is the MP ship battles. That would be well-worth the admission price. But I'd hold off and pray the upcoming patch would introduce this to the PC version, but somehow I don't see that happening.
What really beggars belief is that somewhere in the porting process, an executive decision was made that amounted to "Pirates! is too complicated. If we don't change things, it will be too boring and slow for console players."
And that this was more important than bug fixing. I'm looking at you, Baron Raymundo.
I wish they'd never Sims-ified the game in the first place. The cartoon Caribbean is even worse with the tiny map and bubble islands on the Xbox. I preferred the art in Pirates! Gold.
It's the perfect console game really, because it's so fun and relaxing, and it works really well with a gamepad, it's just a shame it couldn't be ported more cleanly. Perhaps the Xbox hardware couldn't cope with the map size and ship activity that the PC can. There isn't even any kind of camera controls - all you've got is a really jerky and awkward zoom-in and out, that takes you from 'can't see very far' to 'really close'.
I think this is definitely my least favourite version of P!, ever, but it still has me hooked.
The cannons thing seems to have been for a reason, according to Firaxis:
http://www.hookedonpirates.com/forum...pic.php?t=3408
I hadn't actually noticed that ships had random cannon numbers up to their maximum, although I had noticed that most ships didn't have their maximum, with no way to change it. I'll have to play some more with this in mind, but it does seem to be an interesting solution to a gameplay balance problem with the PC version - namely, getting a Royal Sloop ASAP, then sitting in it for the rest of the game.Ships always have however many cannons they have, and you can't add to their cannon number anymore. However, all ship classes don't necessarily spawn with the same number of cannons. So even though your beginner sloop is an 8 gun sloop, you may run into a 20 gun sloop on the high seas. And that's kind of a decision you need to make -- do I keep the 8 gun ship that has all the upgrades I've put into it, or capture this ship with more guns but without all my upgrades, and put the money into upgrading the new ship.
Besides, everyone knows Brigantines rule.
I still play the origonal PC version of Pirates - for its depth of gameplay and general all around goodness.
And from the sounds of the Xbox version, i'll be sticking with my 'Pirates of the Caribbean' for my console Pirate fix(the sailing in first person mode is very nice, as is ship combat). I've seen it around very cheap in stores recently.
Shame really i've been looking at the new Pirates! and hoping it would be as good as the origonal.
They did the same thing with Civ III, and I didn't like it there either. An insincere, lightly-amusing Maxis-esque sense of humor.
"Look at this famous world leader who was my enemy! He's all beaten up with a silly grin and a bent dart stuck in his cartoon head! HAHA! I've just killed millions of people and ethnically cleansed a few million more. HAH HAH HAHAHAHAAA!"
Interest in Pirates x 0 = meh
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