anyone else dumb enough to buy dungeon lords?

[Moore]

It's strangely addicative, but it's missing some features and dreamcatcher is claiming the features are supposed to be missing?

Example: automap? doesnt exist, despite what the manual says, despite screenshots of the official site.

Character customization (hair/skin/heads/handedness) ? The buttons are ingame, but DO NOTHING....

lots of other lil problems, but unfortunately I'm finding it fun and hoping the patch fixes the missing features. It seems focused on bugs, which I dont have, so that kinda sucks. Havent tried multi yet but if it actually works the game would be more fun co-op I'm sure.


Here's their 'faq'
1. Is Dungeon Lords available only on PC?
Currently, Dungeon Lords is available only for the PC. However, an Xbox version may be available in the future.

2. What is Dungeon Lords?
Dungeon Lords is an action-driven RPG (Role-Playing Game) set in a fantasy realm. The great wizard, Galdryn of the Meadows, has been slain by a deadly conspiracy within the Circle of Mages. His chief ally, Lord Davenmor, now struggles to save his kingdom from the dark forces of the conspiracy and the onslaught of Lord Barrowgrim’s army of marauders. Lord Davenmor has promised his daughter’s hand in marriage to lord Barrowgrim to quell the invasion, but her heart belongs to another and after learning of her father’s pledge, she has vanished. Sensing treachery, Lord Barrowgrim has sent his army once more to destroy Lord Davenmor and raze the kingdom. It is into this web that you arrive; as a hero undertaking to save the kingdom.

3. Does Dungeon Lords support task switching (Alt-Tab)?
Dungeon Lords does not support task switching when running in full screen mode. If you wish to run in windowed mode, you may start the game with the parameter “-gdi” and you will be able to switch between applications. Be aware that mouselook will not function in windowed mode though, and you will need to re-map the view rotation to the keyboard.

4. What are the system requirements for Dungeon Lords?
Your system must meet the following system requirements:

Minimum
Operating System: Windows 98/Me/2000/XP
Processor: 1.0 GHz CPU
Memory: 384 MB RAM
Hard Disk Space: 1.2 GB Available
CD or DVD-ROM Drive: 4X or Higher
Video: 64 MB DirectX 7 Video Card with Hardware Transform and Lighting Support (NVIDIA GeForce 2 GTS or Better)
Sound: DirectX 8.1b or Better Compatible Sound Card
Input: Keyboard and Mouse

Recommended
Operating System: Windows XP
Processor: 2.4 GHz CPU
Memory: 512 MB RAM
Hard Disk Space: 1.2 GB Available
CD or DVD-ROM Drive: 4X or Higher
Video: 128 MB DirectX 9 Video Card (NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 or Better)
Sound: DirectX 8.1b or Better Compatible Sound Card
Internet: Broadband Connection
Input: Keyboard and Mouse

Required for Multiplayer: 1 disc per player per computer Internet (2-8 players): 56 Kbps or faster Internet connection (high speed recommended)

Local Network (2-8 players): TCP/IP compliant LAN

5. If I wish to have a LAN party, does my Dungeon Lords CD need to be in my CD/DVD-ROM drive during the entire game?
The CD does not need to be in the drive to play the game. However, you must have a valid CD key to play over GameSpy.

6. There are options in the manual that don’t work in the game. What’s wrong? Is my game broken?
Certain cosmetic options from the original design, that do not affect gameplay significantly, were listed in the manual, but did not make it into the release of the game. These are now being evaluated and may be re-activated at a later update. We are also working on additional content and features to enhance your Dungeon Lords experience. Please keep checking www.DungeonLords.com for updates.

7. I’m lost! Where do I go now? How do I find XYZ?
The Dungeon Lords world is quite large – fortunately, we’ve provided you with a map of the world to get you started. Make sure you talk to everyone, and pay attention to what they say; they’ll tell you where you need to go. From there, pay attention to signs both in towns and on the roads and use the in-game compass.

8. I heard there was an auto-map feature in Dungeon Lords but when playing it, I can’t seem to get it to work?
No auto-map feature has been included in the game. Exploration of the game world was intended as provided and is part of the game play experience. However, based on user feedback an auto-mapping feature may be included for a future update.

9. Which video cards will work with Dungeon Lords?
Dungeon Lords requires DirectX 9 compliant video cards with at least 64 MB of video RAM (VRAM). All major series of graphics boards (ATI, NVIDIA, etc.) have been tested to work with the game. Please note that the Intel Extreme Graphics chipsets are NOT currently supported as they are not DirectX 9 compliant.

10. How do I achieve optimal performance of Dungeon Lords on my computer?
Dungeon Lords requires primarily CPU processing power for an optimum playing experience. If you find your frame-rate to be too low, please adjust your video settings under the Options Menu. Dropping texture quality levels for the game architecture, sky, characters and weapons to lower levels, as well as the overall graphics resolution will help achieve improved game performance.

11. Can I use my Single Player character in Multiplayer games?
Yes. The multiplayer component of Dungeon Lords is very flexible and allows you to jump in-and-out of save games in either Single or Multiplayer. If you come up against a particularly tough battle that you can’t seem to get past on your own, invite a friend or two to help you out!

12. Where can I get updates for Dungeon Lords?
Please read our Technical FAQ and visit www.DungeonLords.com for more information.

[Matt Perkins]

8. I heard there was an auto-map feature in Dungeon Lords but when playing it, I can’t seem to get it to work?
No auto-map feature has been included in the game. Exploration of the game world was intended as provided and is part of the game play experience. However, based on user feedback an auto-mapping feature may be included for a future update.

I love it when developers claim I should suffer because it's a part of the game. A part of the game my ass. That was a part of the game back in the day when in game mappings systems weren't easy to do. Now, without it, you're creating a pain, not a feature.

I am so not buying this one.

[Chris Woods]

Character customization (hair/skin/heads/handedness) ? The buttons are ingame, but DO NOTHING....

This is a joke, right? They literally left the buttons in game but just didn't bind them to anything?

I mean, there's sloppy and then there is just plain stupid. How hard could it have possibly been to remark out the code that adds those buttons to the UI?

Chris Woods

[Bill Dungsroman]

11. Can I use my Single Player character in Multiplayer games?
Yes. The multiplayer component of Dungeon Lords is very flexible and allows you to jump in-and-out of save games in either Single or Multiplayer. If you come up against a particularly tough battle that you can’t seem to get past on your own, invite a friend or two to help you out!

Soul-crushing gales of derisive laughter from your friends not included.

[mouselock]

3. Does Dungeon Lords support task switching (Alt-Tab)?
Dungeon Lords does not support task switching when running in full screen mode. If you wish to run in windowed mode, you may start the game with the parameter “-gdi” and you will be able to switch between applications. Be aware that mouselook will not function in windowed mode though, and you will need to re-map the view rotation to the keyboard.

Heh.

[Jasper Phillips]

I can live without the appearance customization and the automap. Moore, what makes the game fun to play? How is the melee action handled? (What other game(s) is it most like?)

[Moore]

dunno, they were there in the demo and everyone thoughht they were just locked, due to the demo. Early theorieson the retail was that they forgot to 'unlock' the buttons or something, but while there are a few (like 2, for one race) extra head textures in the game data, there arent really any options for most of the races, theres no code issue, there just arent any art files for the races to have any other faces or whatever, and the files dont seem to be skin-tonew slider friendly, so I'm not sure how they were planning on adding it. I guess just putting a button for the feature in the game lets them imply to prospective buyers that they have such a feature and then when you ask them about it they act like you are insane for thinking the button should do anything.

This is my las DW B game and my last Dreamcatcher game, for sure. And I never say that shit because I'm a sucker for games. I even kind of like this one warts and all but the attitude is just sooo disrepectful and beyond 'devs owe you nothing'.

You also cannot repair armor or carry more than one type of an item. no weight restrictions carrying things, just 'oh you have a rusty dagger? I'll throw away this other one you just picked up' so 1 of each non-stackable is the max, but you can carry ONE of every item in the game no problem. Makes selling loot a pain, except if you sell stackables like lockpicks (which are useless) you can say, I'll sell 400! and it doesnt even deduct one, but pays you for the 400.

It's really confusing and the paper map is useless. Interface and text are TINY in nicer resolutions, your stuck with 800x600 or you're reading bible print. The fucking main menu doesnt even work right, it's like 2 inches by 3 inches across in the top left corner of the screen because it's done in like 320x240 res or something. (ok, 800x600 but it looks shit)

[Moore]

Jasper: the combat IS fun, but I couldnt say why. It's like die by the sword done badly or something. Very badly. But it's still fun. The dodging and stuff adds a bit to it, and the hits on enemies 'feel' solid. You'll be fighting every 20 seconds or so, and it rapidly goes from 2-3 enemies at a time to 10-15 enemies at a time, sometimes 2-3 groups of 10. That will kill you. It's more entertianing than it has any right to be, but the whole game feels like an empty MMO, so maybe its just that the combat is better than most MMO's that makes it feel kinda nice.

There is a cool troll, and most enemies look nice enough.

[Midnight Son]

Right, nothing to see here. PC games are DOMED! This is just another example why.

[Reed]

That is just crazy. And to think that the game was delayed a few times.

Indeed PC games are digging their own grave.

[Moore]

see? the automap looks nice. Would have been nice to have whatever build this is, before they decided "Exploration of the game world was intended as provided and is part of the game play experience."

They even have the map listed in the key bindings.....

'course if you dig through the directories, the art for maps is there. For one town...... The one in the screenshot above, used to advertise and preview the game.

[Robert Sharp]

I think buying any Bradley games before reviews is a huge mistake. How many times does this have to happen before you guys will stop doing it?

[Naked]

Ouch! I've spent enough time in the development trenches to know that features often DO have to be cut, even if you've already big upped 'em to the press. Sometimes stuff just doesn't work out right, or it isn't fun, or you underestimated the amount of required assets or somesuch, and you consequently have to remove it from the game. In this case, it sounds like they suffered from depleted art resources and had to cut features that were dependent upon them (custom character profiles, automaps etc).

[rant]

That said, attempting to write off cut features with some sort of half-assed "it's the way we intended it, honest guv" bullshit is just weak - especially when it's pretty easy to infer that this isn't really the case (as Moores various posts seem to show). Why not simply state "hey, for various reasons, we had to cut feature X" and then indicate whether it might be added in some future patch, if the game sells well enough. If you don't think it will ever be available, say that, but don't bold-facedly lie to the people who actually bought your freaking game.

[/rant]

...ahem, anyways, is this any better than the demo, polish-wise? The demo felt like a pre-Alpha proof of concept, and while I'd like to see a deep PC dungeon crawler from Bradley, I ain't going to buy until it gets the thumbs up from one of you good folks.

[Moore]

Ouch! I've spent enough time in the development trenches to know that features often DO have to be cut, even if you've already big upped 'em to the press. Sometimes stuff just doesn't work out right, or it isn't fun, or you underestimated the amount of required assets or somesuch, and you consequently have to remove it from the game. In this case, it sounds like they suffered from depleted art resources and had to cut features that were dependent upon them (custom character profiles, automaps etc).

[rant]

That said, attempting to write off cut features with some sort of half-assed "it's the way we intended it, honest guv" bullshit is just weak - especially when it's pretty easy to infer that this isn't really the case (as Moores various posts seem to show). Why not simply state "hey, for various reasons, we had to cut feature X" and then indicate whether it might be added in some future patch, if the game sells well enough. If you don't think it will ever be available, say that, but don't bold-facedly lie to the people who actually bought your freaking game.

[/rant]

...ahem, anyways, is this any better than the demo, polish-wise? The demo felt like a pre-Alpha proof of concept, and while I'd like to see a deep PC dungeon crawler from Bradley, I ain't going to buy until it gets the thumbs up from one of you good folks.

It's worse than the demo, seems like an older build honestly. Things like the quick menu dont work at all and they did in the demo(not broken, it's just NOT in the game anymore, you hit F and there is no menu, again despite what the manual and ingame bindings say)

So to drink a potion or cast a scroll, you have to go through your inventory screen, find it and click on it. Yeah, in the middle of twitch combat. Yeah, as often or more often than in Diablo games, you need to drink potions during combat. Yeah, it's a pain.

Hey look, the assholes changed the faq.

"8. I heard there was an auto-map feature in Dungeon Lords but when playing it, I can’t seem to get it to work?
No auto-map feature has been included in the game. Although mentioned in the manual, the manuals were printed significantly before the final cut of Dungeon Lords was delivered from the developer. Between the time of the manual printing and the final version of Dungeon Lords being delivered and after significant discussion and evaluation, it was determined that the current system was more fun, providing increasing character growth and classic RPG exploring. However, based on user-feedback an auto-mapping feature may be included for a future update."

"we didnt finish it but it's more fun unfinished!"

Making mods is fun too, maybe for the sequel they can just forget to make all the levels!

Oh and this may be a legitimate design choice (I guess..) but I just noticed there is ZERO music in the game. There is in menus, but walking around the world, there is no music at all, ever.


It gets better, a dev, 'chuk' posted this
"In response to some inquiries on the automap on the Typhoon Board, Chuk22 posted the following:

Unfortunately, maps are not currently available. Maps have never been active in any publicly released form. It is a feature that was cut due to time.

Notwithstanding, it is an addition we are heavily considering, once other more relevant issues have been patched.

In the meantime, if you bought the game, you get a map in the box. Between the map, the roadsigns, and the compass, the world is quite navigable.

-CHUK"

Cut due to time sound more honest than 'we tested it and found that it's SOO MUCH FUN WITH NO MAP that we cut the feature!'

I know they have to market the game, but doesnt it bother them at all just to blatantly lie? I mean, that is as blatant as can be.

Another thing about the automap is that it's tied to a scout skill one class can get. Er, but you can't really, since theres isnt a map. whatever.

[Naked]

...and that's a skip for me, folks. Thanks Moore!

[stusser]

The last game bradley was responsible for that wasn't dogshit was wizardry7, in 1992. Granted, wiz7 was one of the best games of all time, but that was thirteen frickin years ago.

Not to digress, but what's with the american mcgeeization of his name? Nobody knows who this fucker is.

[Moore]

The last game bradley was responsible for that wasn't dogshit was wizardry7, in 1992. Granted, wiz7 was one of the best games of all time, but that was thirteen frickin years ago.

Not to digress, but what's with the american mcgeeization of his name? Nobody knows who this fucker is.

I dunno whats with it, but I'll bet this is the last time it's tried. The name (now for me, I guess earlier for others) is a gold seal stamp of dogshit quality.

[Shadari]

Argh, I'm really torn on this one. I'd like to support PC RPGs as much as possible. But man, this release just seems sloppy as hell. OTOH, many hard-core RPG'ers are saying that the core gameplay is pretty fun. I guess I'll wait a few months and see....

[Moore]

Wait a month, it's worth $10 for sure and it WILL be that or less in a few weeks, it CANNOT sell well, reality would shatter, up would become down, etc...

[Equisilus]

I just bought DL and started playing it and haven't found anything terribly wrong with it, overall, especially for the low price ($39.99 Can). Yes, I agree that character customization buttons should have been removed, automaps should have been in, and a game with no music is odd (although I find music distracts from the gameplay), but I haven't encountered anything that has made me wish I hadn't bought the game. Now, I don't usually like action RPGs of the sort that require key-combos in combat to initiate particular moves, so I'm not too pleased by the combat system so far, but I knew what it was like going in and will deal with it. It just takes some getting used to, is all. The big thing with this game is that it came out exactly when there were very few single player cRPGs out there to play. Having just played through Heretic Kingdoms: The Inquisition, DL is definitely a step up in looks and style, although I haven't played enough to comment on story and character depth.

I understand that people want a decently enjoyable, playable game and I haven't seen anything yet in DL that would dissuade me from suggesting someone pick this game up. Wait for a patch or two, sure, or don't buy it on principle (getting tired of buggy PC releases, for instance) but DL seems to provide enough value for its cost to make it worthwhile. Hey, if you have something better to do, do it. Me, I just wanted a new game to play.

:wink:

[Myth]

I just bought DL and started playing it and haven't found anything terribly wrong with it, overall, especially for the low price ($39.99 Can). Yes, I agree that character customization buttons should have been removed, automaps should have been in, and a game with no music is odd (although I find music distracts from the gameplay), but I haven't encountered anything that has made me wish I hadn't bought the game. Now, I don't usually like action RPGs of the sort that require key-combos in combat to initiate particular moves, so I'm not too pleased by the combat system so far, but I knew what it was like going in and will deal with it. It just takes some getting used to, is all. The big thing with this game is that it came out exactly when there were very few single player cRPGs out there to play. Having just played through Heretic Kingdoms: The Inquisition, DL is definitely a step up in looks and style, although I haven't played enough to comment on story and character depth.

I understand that people want a decently enjoyable, playable game and I haven't seen anything yet in DL that would dissuade me from suggesting someone pick this game up. Wait for a patch or two, sure, or don't buy it on principle (getting tired of buggy PC releases, for instance) but DL seems to provide enough value for its cost to make it worthwhile. Hey, if you have something better to do, do it. Me, I just wanted a new game to play.

:wink:

Picked this up today as well. No suprises, as I played the demo. But the thing is that I thought the demo was fun even though it was rough around the edges . People complained that it was too hard, too dark, that the interface was too convoluted, that the combat was too wonky, etc. Nothing that a little read me or manual reading, or gamma adjusting didn't fix though.

I find Dungeon Lords to be a unique blend of classic and new rpg gameplay elements. It begins with an intriguing story to draw you in, and off you go. The combat is immersive, and while it takes you a while to get used to it (kind of like Mount and Blade), it starts to become second nature. It's not just click click click...., it's circle.. block, dodge feint thrust. Some of my battles have become quite protracted. Getting down to almost zero hit points, but winning in the end is quite satisfying. As you invest more points into your skills your blows become more predictable and controllable. Great system really...very slick and well designed. This is one of the first RPG's (well the second if you consider Mount and Blade) that I have played that I actually felt involved and drawn in to the combat in a personal way.

Yeah, shame on me for buying a buggy game (which the developers seem intent on fixing) , but you know, it's just so refreshing to play something that dares to be a little different and not the same derivative stuff that has been shoveled out over the past few years. I am completely happy with my purchase and am enjoying the game immensly.

[krayzkrok]

After the first few posts in this thread, I'm thinking "Fuck the missing automap, what is the rest of the game like?" Thanks to the last two posters for finally providing a broader opinion. Sure, the bugs and missing undocumented features might be a little jarring, but do they really overwhelm the game... nobody has indicated that. No wonder these genres die - none of them live up to our stratospherically high expectations anymore. You know, back when there was a bit of variety in gaming, most games were like this! And we loved them for their little flaws. ;)

The devs could be more upfront about the missing features though. As in "well we thought about it, mocked up a few screenshots even, but just didn't have time to put it in... and anyway, it works ok without it". At least they're reconsidering their opinion and will include it in a future patch. Better than some devs I could mention.

[Kevin Grey]

No wonder these genres die - none of them live up to our stratospherically high expectations anymore.

Clearly things like a working automap and character customization buttons that actually let you customize your character are way in the stratosphere. Afterall these have only been in RPGs since, what, late 80s?

[Mano]

I've enjoyed the game so far. I was actually rather surprised how well it ran on high settings on my crappy pc considering most games I've tried, even at low on everything, the fps can still hit like 1 lol.

As has been said, the combat is pretty fun. It took me awhile to get the hang of it, but it's more fun than just point and click, wait till mob dies, repeat. And when you get over 5 points in a weapon type, you can do more combat moves(although since I've only made it to 5, my guy currently does one new move which he seems to do automatically after x number of swings).

There's not much downtime since in the first dungeon I was usually fighting my way through the whole thing, with the longest break between fights probably 1 minutes or so(on normal). Also, healing your character isn't a problem as potions drop aplenty, which on a few fights had me quaffing numerous of them when I'd get attacked by groups of like 10-15, but that just adds to the fun ;P

Now I know why the map doesn't work, bastards!!! Not really a big deal to me though, at least I haven't needed it yet.

The only thing I'd like added is a way to get rid of skills you took so you can put them on something else and change your class. I.e. my mage has a few too many fighter related skills etc...and his magic does shit now lol. That said, I'm not sure if mages suck in this game or if it's just that I *might* have gimped mine. At the beginning, he had 2 spells, 1 which did negligible damage, and he could only cast twice before it needed to regn, and another which I think he could use once or twice and just stunned/froze the enemy for a few moments. Now, when you run into a group with say 3 goblins, and you have 1 spell you can cast twice that does dmg....

The skill/stat system seems decent so far. Basically, as far as stats go you have your usual str, dex, etc...but depending on the race, some stats cost more xp than others. I.e. the minotaur looking race can get str and vitality for 500 xp at 20, while dex, which starts at 8 or 9 I think costs like 2000 or so. Now elves, their dex and evasion(attacking and dodging) starts at I think 15ish and costs like 750 whereas my elf mage, at 20 str, costs I think 3000ish for to get to 21 str. So while they don't *lock* you into any specific template, obviously it's easier to build on what you're given to max your points(or pick a different race) for whatever type of character you make. That said, every kill you make you get xp, which can be used to getting new ranks in the various skills or increasing your stats.

The skills so far seem to be mainly passive, hopefully you get active ones once you get a little further in the game. Although for trasure chests in the dungeons, it's a little mini-game to try to open them, there's a progress bar with like 8 different pictures, and depending on the level of your inspect and disarm skill, you can either make them out, or not at all to you try to disarm it. And the level of the trap mean there's more icons you have to *match up* to open it. After 3 seconds of the icons appearing(assuming your skill was to low to see them before you hit disarm)a progress bar starts on the left of the pics(moving either slow or fast depending on your skill)and you have to press the icons as the bar hits them or the trap damages you(and it resets so it can be quite hard to get the higher level chests open with no skill i.e. I've just left numerous of them unopened).

Overall, I'm having fun so far. A few minor bugs i.e. inventory, map, and selling multiple items(woohoo unlimited cash lol), but nothing that has affected my gameplay to any noticable extent.

[Sarkus]

So to drink a potion or cast a scroll, you have to go through your inventory screen, find it and click on it. Yeah, in the middle of twitch combat. Yeah, as often or more often than in Diablo games, you need to drink potions during combat. Yeah, it's a pain.

Your credibility just took a hit because that isn't true at all. You can bind potions or scrolls to a quick key. I'll admit it took me reading the manual to figure out how to do it, but it's in there.

As with the last posters I'd say this isn't the steaming pile that some are making it out to be.

[Murph]

Okay, this is like, the Qt3 anti-thread.

I've figured it out. If you want the vast majority of Qt3 to actually like a game, all you've got to do is post a really scathing post about it. 'Cause obviously, the first poster to deem a game good or bad is wrong. :-)

[Moore]

oh noes credibility shattered! The menu is still supposed to be there, but yeah, you can put at item to a key, I'd prefer the demo-way of showing that menu.

I said it's fun, I just think they screwed the pooch, and I cant tell WHY its fun.

BTW-
let me know how you like the total ghost town cities. Not even a bed in the inn (seriously, the inn in the 2nd city is just empty rooms)

it's unfinished.

[Midnight Son]

No sale for you! Back to Stella Deus.

[Chris Nahr]

Not exactly unexpected. Let's get back to looking forward to Grimoire, then.

[Gaming-Module]

I remember warning you guys and the people at Arstechnica about this game. DW Bradley is a name that sends up red flags in my mind, after the completely buggy Wizards & Warriors. They never released more than a beta patch for that one, despite a sizeable community of fans at RPGDot and various other forums.

Sadly, W&W was a fun game. Damn fun, in fact. But you had to run DX7 to get it running half of the time, which was unacceptable since DX8 became a requirement for new games shortly after they finally put W&W out the door.

Problems ranged from artifacting, garbled text, bugged icons and dissapearing polygons.

Looks like someone didn't learn his lesson for Dungeon Lords.