Haibane Renmei is the best damned character-driven anime I've seen in the past year or so (I probably have a post buried somewhere in a year-ago page of this thread about it, but am lazy, so). I don't recall any wacky wacky faces and such. It's a deliberately-paced beautiful study of redemption and damnation both, only nowhere near as lame as that sounds, and with a perfect salting of the surreal for spice.
Yup. When you compare them to the GM production models, which seemed useful mostly for exploding, the 8thMS suits could have easily held their own against the RX-78.Originally Posted by Ex-S Woo
Still, I love the Kämpfer design so much that I can forgive all sins in continuity.
Yeah, the V is a very tight little model. But I don't really see how compactness equates to lowered visibility -- with a 360 degree camera system, you have no blind spots. It's a superior tactical advantage. Basically, the only reason I see for them making the V a canopy model is that it's essentially just a core fighter on top of a suit -- but even then that's pretty hard to swallow because the ZZ used a core fighter as the head and still had a 360 degree cockpit if I recall correctly. Overall, the tech in V seems to be much lower than that in CCA, which to me is the UC series' technological pinnacle. I mean, Funnels? The Psyco Frame? The Alpha? That stuff was specifically used by newtypes, yes, but you'd think they'd somehow have an effect on mobile suit design so many years down the line. I suppose you could attribute this to the fact that the V seems to be designed on earth for earth pilots, but since Uso is an earthnoid, it sorta defeats the idea that newtypes can only be created in space. Unless of course he is Char's grandson, in which case that would indicate that newtypiness can be passed on through genetics. At any rate it's all very confusing :).
Something that always bothered me in Gundam/other series is docking suit models. It's such a huge tactical nightmare. You have your suit in 3 pieces that all need to be assembled in midair... yeah, what? The first episode of Victory shows exactly why this is soooo not viable -- Asher destroys the bottom fighter before Uso is able to dock. So, not only are you basically a sitting duck while docking, but if one of the pieces is hit you're completely unable to finish the transformation and you're basically stuck with a very heavy core fighter that has none of the abilities of a mobile suit. Hurry, launch another bottom fighter! Bleh.
One of the big things you see in the Post CCA era is the Feds basically focusing on cost-effective tech and not neccessarily the best technology. Things like transforming mobile suits, Incoms, and even the 360 canopy seems to have fallen by the wayside as a result.
Another reason that Newtype based technology never really took off was...simply, Newtypes are still uncommon 60 years down the line...certainly not enough to make Newtype-only weaponry cost-effective. You do see the concept taken a bit further with the Post-CCA Novel only sequel Hathaway's Flash (guess who it stars?) with the Xi Gundam having Funnel Missiles, but you see that all the tech advances post CCA came in advances in basic weaponry/defense (Beam Shields, VSBRs and the like) and Non-NT specific systems like the Bio Computer in the F-91.
There are also two serperate terms for Newtype that are in play. The original terminology came from Zeon Zum Deikun(Char's father) which was more of a philosophical POV which stated that it was in space that man could reach his true potential and would eventually evolve to something greater.
The latter definition refers to people like Amuro and Camille who have somehow manifested physic powers..and the Newtype moniker was attached to them because of the strong 'Newtype' philosophy at the time.
You WILL see some NT specific things later in Victory though :)
It's explained more as an insurance on the pilot's life + ease of production w/o letting on exactly what they're planning. Since the League Militaire is a civilian organization it lacks both manpower and a centralized manufacturing plant so it's not too far fetched (come on, work with me here! :P).
I'm not sure it's two different terminologies. I think the "newtype" term as applied to people like Camille/Amuro/Char is more or less just a physical representation of the philosophy. I believe it was Amuro at the end of CCA that described why he thinks newtypes became what they were -- being so far from earth, a way was needed to keep people in contact with each other, and so they evolved to make use of the unused parts of their brains to gain access to higher cognitive functions. I actually think that most spacenoids are newtypes, just not quite as developed as people like Camille and Amuro. For example, you see many people in the series that are able to sense each other psychically, but only very few display the genius that Camille and Amuro do while piloting. In that sense you could consider other spacenoids to be just regular newtypes, while those two are prodigies. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "newtype" philosophy is an adjective, whereas the actual newtypes themselves are nouns.
Haha, fair enough. I did think of a couple of advantages to such a system after writing that post actually: it would be much easier to replace pieces of the suit in mid-combat with a 3-part system, and like you said, having the core fighter in the event of damage to the lower suit gives the pilot some extra life insurance over the standard escape pod. Not to mention that transporting it would be a lot easier to do without attracting as much attention as a fully-assembled mobile suit would. But could you imagine having to be the guys that take the thing apart after every battle?
Oh well. I guess if it weren't for inconsistency, fans would have a lot less to discuss. :P
There is definitely a Newtype 'catalyst' effect that takes place during the all the major UC Gundam series. Char's NT capabilities didn't really manifest itself until prolonged contact with Amuro, and near the end of the series the entire White Base crew has at least some hint of low level NT abilities...which would suggest that the Earthnoid/Spacenoid difference isn't really a deciding factor to NT powers but rather proximitiy with people who already exhibit NT powers.
That's basically the crux of the problem with arguing that those with NT powers actually correlate to the ideals that they're based on. If Spacenoids are naturally inclined to become NTs, why aren't they a noticeable population in any Gundam series? In fact, the term Newtype is used more as a legendary term even in Victory. Even if we reach all the way down to UC 200+ with Gaia Gear or G-Savior you see the 'NT Revolution' never came.
Then there's also the problem with the logic behind how NTs like Amuro and Camille even came to existence. If a person going into space byself isn't really a contributing factor, I can sort of buy into the idea that the 'universe itself willed them into existence' to fill a certain role. It's certainly consistent with some of the themes that are presented in Ideon and Dunbine.
...or most likely, Tomino wanted to use NTs as a philosophy behind the Gundam series and was forced into making it more palatable to the kids and toy makers so that it could be incorporated into things to sell more models. :)
I haven't seen Victory, and I didn't even remember that it was part of the UC timeline. I think F91 scarred me...
Meanwhile, for those who know how to appropriate such things... The Fullmetal Alchemist movie has hit the nets. In fact a buddy of mine at work got a copy from Hong Kong. They released it with English subtitles, so the time to conversion was 0.
Let me try...
Witch Hunter Robin: Mysterious UN witch hunting outfit, in current days settings. Characters have normal eyes, acts totally cool, walks super slowly, and never ever smile.
Noir: 2 girls who are assassins with superhuman aim. Absolutely great soundtrack. 1st 7 episodes are standalone, one mission per eps kind of thing, but the real story kicks in for the rest of the 26 episodes.
Rouroni Kenshin: I've never watched it, but since you should like it based on the other stuff that you like. Samaurai show.
Full Metal Panic (1st and 3rd season; 2nd season was comedy only, but you might like it anyways). Uh, I don't want to call it a mecha show, but it has a mecha in it. Please use google for help describing this one.
gotta go for lunch, I'll stop here.
Hmm, I guess I'll rattle off my top favorites then. Oh, and don't watch dubs, ever.
s-CRY-ed: The subbed version is excellent. This is my favorite anime. Some of the most over-the-top fights you will ever see, and the most emotional anime death scene of all time. Awesome jazz soundtrack.
Twelve Kingdoms: My second favorite anime of all time. Fantasy/mythology-themed. This series really is perfect in every way.
Wolf's Rain: Pretty pop-culture at the time of release, but still one of the best. The episode in the lost forest is a masterpiece. Great writing, animation and memorable characters.
Hunter X Hunter: Great adventure-type anime. Hisoka rules. Some might disagree with me here, but damn if I'm not looking forward to the new HxH season they're filming right now. Stopping it after Greed Island would have sucked!
There are a couple other series I enjoyed, but I don't think it's right placing them in the same category as the above. Those are definitely my favorites.
Twelve Kingdoms is still my all time favorite by a large margin. If only the rest of the anime out there was even half this good. Note don't bother unless you are willing to watch at least 12+ episodes, otherwise you will probably dislike it.
Just finished up Berserk, and I rather liked it. It started off with what I thought was going to be a generic fantasy story with evil demons and a super bad ass, and it instead turned into a decent story about a band of mercenaries. It is hyper violent, dark (as in rape), and the artwork isn't my favorite but the story dragged me in nicely. To say it ends on a cliffhanger is an absolute understatement. It would be absurd if the story stopped there, but luckily the manga continues the tale.
Ghost in the Shell 1st and 2nd gig are pretty good too. It's a lot more indepth than most anime's, you really have to pay attention to follow the different interests and organizations. A bad fansub can make it quite inexplicable, it's worth it to buy the dvd's which are generally nicely done with the closed captioning.
The Laughing Man Fansubs are pretty damn awesome. But the 2nd series of GITS:SAC is not boat floating for me.
I thought the 2nd gig was better. Loved the Tachikoma even more this time around! I also thought the Individualist Eleven/Gouda stuff was more interesting than the Laughing Man.
For my own reccomendation, gotta go with Full Metal Alchemist. Really solid character driven show. Plus you can try for free during Adult Swim.
I will add to the Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex recommendation. Very dramatic, cyberpunk stealth police squad action. Takes its tech seriously. I've only watched 1st GIG, though. I'll watch 2nd GIG soon!
One more for today: Inu Yasha. But I have a disclaimer: you will see that this series has >170 episodes. Just watch the first, oh, 40-60..I can't remember. You will know where to stop when you watch it. I will spoil you by telling you that even though the tv series has ended, the story hasn't. The story is gripping in the beginning, and moves at a very fast pace with no breaks. Once past eps 40-60, the show becomes inconsistent, with periods of obvious filler episodes. And since the story never ends, it's only a waste of time to watch the rest.
Inu Yasha? Ugh. Dragon Ball Z with romance tacked on. Awful.
Well I always push GITS but I figure people get sick and tired of me saying it :)
I could never figure out why the LMF group stuck with the phrase "Particularist Eleven" when it was very obvious it was "Individual Eleven" from the start. I figure it was maybe just a translational issue at the beginning and when they switched guys they just stuck with the phrase.
Still, it's an awesome show, one I can't recommend enough. Production values way over the top for a series, and generally the animation quality (not always) is miles better than nearly everything the Cartoon Network, let alone most cookie-cutter anime. And the music is awesome.
Thank God there appears to be a third season in the works (well, that's the whispering anyway).
--- Alan
Last Exile was good.
Heat Guy J was enjoyable.
Kaze No Yojimbo was different and that was good.
Read or Die was great.
Since you're hyping a show everyone else is hyping as well, I think the fact that you specifically are doing it gets lost.
Now, if you hyped a show that no one else hypes, like Revolutionary Girl Utena (entire series now available for low price of $99.95!), it'd get noticed more.
Oh yah, and Twelve Kingdoms and ROD are great.
I also liked Princess Nine and Gatekeepers 21, for two other seldom-recommended series (G21 is an OAV).
Oh, and Gunbuster, if you can find it.
I've read a lot about Utena, it doesn't seem like somthing I'd like much.
Lately I've been finishing off Texholyze, and I just got the last volume of Scrapped Princess, which is great. I also started Now and Then, Here and There, but didn't finish it before GITS 2nd Gig Vol 3 came, so that's on the backburner, along with Noir and Infinite Ryvius.
I always hear this about Twelve Kingdoms, which makes me wonder why it's so highly praised. If half of something sucks, doesn't that make it mediocre at best overall?
I guess I'll find out, since I found the whole series at Record Surplus for $6 per volume, which I figured was going to be the best price I'd find, so I bought them.
You don't like it when the characters make weird comedy faces but you liked Trigun? Interesting.
You might try Blue Submarine No. 6. It's a bit slow, but I liked it. Paranoia Agent was another of my favorites from last year. Very weird, occasionally creepy. Good stuff.
Oh, and don't bother with Revolutionary Girl Utena unless you can tolerate something truly gayer than gay. Utena has a gayocity that exceeds normal gayness and warps into some new dimension. Also it repeats the same stair-climbing scene a lot to fill time. And the movie makes no fucking sense. And there isn't a likeable character in it, especially the idiot girl everyone seems to want for some reason.
Yes, I say this partly because I like to annoy Anders, but also partly because I was forced to watch this (and the movie...brrr) by my girlfriend, and it is honestly one of the worst things I have ever seen animated. Deadly dull and uninteresting.
I actually liked the first part of Twelve Kingdoms, it's just that for some people the whining of the main character seems like it's going to never stop. It does, an to great effect, but flashbacks to Escaflowne turn off a lot of people who think they are just going to be watching a rehash. Nothing is further from the truth.
I don't think any of the series was bad. And oddly enough, I've never heard anyone complain about the first 12 episodes. The last few perhaps, the ones after the main story arc, but the beginning? There's some great character development there, and the "whining" is just the result of thrusting someone into a destiny they don't understand. She reacts fairly admirably in my opinion, all things considered.
Bottom line, if you have not watched Twelve Kingdoms, watch it now. Right now. This series had me pulling an all nighter where I watched the last 16 or so in the main arc all in a row. At the end I was rocking back and forth in my chair in absolute despair that it was over. It's that fucking good.
It's just the first five episodes at most that can be annoying, if you're easily annoyed by whining that never seems to stop. Don't worry, it will. My problem was the episodes right after the first 12, where they use a storytelling technique that just doesn't work, in my opinion. Luckily, that's only for one story arc. Then it's great again.
It certainly helped that I was predisposed to liking Utena, since I suppose it might be seen as dragging at times, the first time you watch it. But it's the most intriguing and fascinating series I've seen, with one of the best endings ever. EVER!
Also, they get an elevator about 25 episodes in ;)
The thing about Twelve Kingdoms is: for some reason the author feels the need to make every character annoying when you first meet them. Then, they either develop as a person or you get to know them better. It works okay for the show but some of the chapters start out a bit rough.
Basically, once the main character stops crying all the time, you should be good to go.
Re: all of the Gundam talk- it sounds like something I might like to get into but the sheer enormity of content is overwhelming. What is the best place for a Gundam newbie to get started?
The original series is probably your best bet.
Ergo Proxy #1 is out. I can't vouch for the quality of the sub, because it's by "Jelly Caption Team," known speedsubbers, but if you want an early look and can't understand japanese it's all you've got right now.
Last edited by MatthewF; 02-11-2006 at 10:32 PM.
Oh god, don't bother. It's unintelligible. Too bad though, the video quality is good.
If you can stand watching early 80s animation then yeah, the first series (0079 as some call it) would be the best bet.
I essentially got started with Char's Counterattack and basically worked my way backwards.
Of course the advantage of the newer alternate universe series is that it's a lot easier to start all over as they haven't propagated that much - Gundam Wing, which started the big commercial youth movement, begins and essentially ends after one series and the OVA, and Gundam Seed has spawned a secondary series thats airing now.
--- Alan
Actually, he might want to start with the 0079 movies. They've been remastered and have some additional modernizations added. They're pretty enjoyable. It's not nearly as hard to go back to as pure 0079. That's where I got my start.
My favorite part is when they send Amuro out after he's been awake for 3 days straight. I'll never forget the expression on his face when they launch the suit :P.
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