01-12-2006, 06:02 AM
Look Dammit, I've been getting shit for a while with my nanobot theory (not my own, but I've pretty much bought into it by this point) and now I say, what else could it be? It's either a cloud of 'bots, or it's Deus Ex MacGuffin fantasy.
Seriously, any compelling theories welcomed.
01-12-2006, 06:05 AM
At this point, a better fight might be Eko vs. Chuck Norris.
Originally Posted by Angrycoder
01-12-2006, 08:11 AM
Well nanobots are sort of an officially sanctioned theory, since one of those official websites said that some guy on the plane had some experimental nanobots with him.
As for the pictures inside the cloud, I did a frame-by-frame on it last night. Some (probably all) of them were shots from Eko's flashback indicating his past. Some people, I think one of the Virgin Mary statues, the church where his brother worked, etc. So it apparently read him and judged him acceptable, in its capacity as a security system.
01-12-2006, 02:58 PM
I'm with you guys on this one, that was a great episode and I'm just so glad the show is back. And I'm going to say it again, Eko is the new biggest badass on TV. Lets just see if Locke can outdo him by season's end.
As for the black cloud, who knows at this point, but its certainly something interesting.
01-12-2006, 05:57 PM
I'm just a little surprised that neither Charlie or Eko told the group about the whole giant black cloud of death thing.
01-12-2006, 08:07 PM
Ooh, good one. On one hand, Eko has his Jesus Stick. On the other, Adebisi has his little hat that defies physics. I'd say it's initially a toss up.
Originally Posted by Angrycoder
01-12-2006, 08:56 PM
So, I find it amazingly cool that the scenes inside the monster are so quick and faded that only someone with a DVR and the ability to lighten the picture can tell what's really going on.
It's like they're marketing that particular segment directly to us: The internet geeks. That's just so ....awesome.
01-12-2006, 09:08 PM
I'm sticking with "mind/psychic research" as my pseudo-science plausibility explanation for now. The bunker computer responding to Michael's emotions to start conversing with "Walt" again, and then clearing before Jack saw it? An emotionally driven response. In fact, for this reason I no longer believe this is really Walt; I think it is Michael's brain driving a manifestation of something he wants to believe.
The plane from Nigeria crashing in the South Pacific years before? A manifestation of Eko's latent mind powers, similar to Hurley "manifesting" the lottery win based on the numbers, not solely related to druggie band guy as I previously suggested. The cloudy thing reflecting faces in Eko's past? A memory read/recall.
I submit that part of the thing Locke "realized" during the first few episodes of season one, after he stood his ground against the defense system and didn't die or whatever, was along these lines. His encounter must have been similar to Eko's. He stood fearless, already having far less fear than the other peeps, and gazed into the smoke. No doubt he saw his own memories, followed by the black smoke leaving and him bagging a boar. Thus, I think Locke has been somehow enlightened not only by his miraculous healing, but also by the fact that he confronted his issues and "beat" the defense system back in like S1E03 or so. Then the smoke tried to take him away from the rest of the group (and he wanted to go) but they managed to fend it off with the dynamite. I predict that the defenses will try to remove Eko before the end of season 2, or possibly as part of the season 3 opener, as it did Locke.
Finally, updating my previous thesis, this time around (during the first hour) I picked up that the bunker guy before Desmond died; he didn't somehow get back to civilization as far as we know. So this wouldn't be the psycho guy from whom Hurley got the numbers, but the rest of that idea in my previous post stands.
Houngan: I believe the cloud is a real thing, possibly nanites or some type of synthetic chemical cloud, guided by mind control/psychic powers of some kind. Some guy in bunker two has a Ray Stantz cum Professor X helmet on and is guiding the "smoke" around as a kind of remote viewer/defense system. I believe the mechanical sounds it sometimes has are like gates on little trapdoors all around the island, which it uses to get places. Like they built an island-wide sprinkler system of small pipes that a gas could pass through, then put little sprinkler heads everywhere as exits. This also explains why there's a big "FWOOSH!" up whenever it comes to the surface; we previously thought that was like some invisible dinosaur pounding ground or whatever.
I'm really thinking along the lines of Michael Chrichton's book Sphere, where these types of psychic powers (physical stuff, not astrology and tarot and whatnot) can alter reality by mental manipulation, but where it's far more limited than in Sphere and you have groups that are competing with each other, in a sense.
edit: Holy shit that took forever to write. Then when I posted it said I was no longer logged in and I thought I had lost it. HA HA LOL HE SAID LOST HA HA. Not funny.
01-12-2006, 11:17 PM
I got on board with the nanotech angle last season, and ultimately I still think that's going to be the explanation. It almost seems like they're beating us over the head with it at this point, but that could just be my own interpretation of the scenes with the black smoke.
I agree with the point above, tho -- you'd think Charlie or Eko would bring that up to the group at some point.
Any plot holes aside, I loved this episode. One of my favorites of the year.
01-12-2006, 11:19 PM
I slow-mo'd when it panned through the cloud and several bright flashes were seen which leads me to believe it is either a very low rain cloud and everyone's feet will be wet OR that computers really play a part in this thing and they were electrical impulses. I'm going with the whole nanite thing.
Originally Posted by mystery
01-13-2006, 12:02 AM
The person on the other end of the computer is DEFINITELY NOT Walt.
Perfect punctuation, spelling, grammar and capitalization.
THIS was Walt:
"dad? r u alright?"
01-13-2006, 12:11 AM
It was my feeling the interaction was all in Michael's head rather than on the screen - he types in things, Jack comes, he doesn't want it there (or the other entity doesn't want to be detected) and poof, it's all gone when Jack looks... pretty much what's already been said.
01-13-2006, 06:01 AM
Slo-mo it again. Those aren't bright flashes -- they're single frames of what appears to be Eko's life.
Originally Posted by Simpilot
01-13-2006, 08:32 AM
I would suggest that they all are going a little crazy but the sticker is the "ghost" of Walt Shushing Shannon and saying that they're here, it's almost as if Walt or something else is trying to tell her (unsuccessfully) that if she keeps screaming that something bad will happen. It doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the group.
The thing that I keep coming back to is why the Others have a List, and why only children seem to be on it. Does this List factor in with the cloud monster? I mean, if the Others are so uber then why haven't they clashed with Locke when he's running around in the jungle all the time? Maybe they don't have a problem with anyone who has faced down the cloud monster?
01-13-2006, 09:33 AM
Well no they never said the Others' list was only children, only that a large number of people were taken, including children - and because they were "good people" which one would think would include children for all the Stephen King-y reasons.
So it's still postulated that the ones that kidnapped Walt weren't the angelic "Others" but other Others. Or just other survivors. Or the weirdo couple in the Dharma videos. Or Dharma & Greg.
01-13-2006, 01:46 PM
I love this show.
As for Eko or Charlie telling everyone what they saw, Eko doesnt say much anyway and they would just say Charlie was High again.
01-13-2006, 02:09 PM
Only a few people knew he's an addict though.
01-13-2006, 02:29 PM
True but I think everyone is about too find out. You know she is going to blab to everyone? Thats what women do isn't it?
01-18-2006, 08:30 PM
AHHHH! Crazy beard guy! Man, the tension was pretty insane this episode. Jack's flashbacks are always so intense, and man, you could cut the sexual tension with a knife in those scenes with that hot Italian lady.
And yeah, it definitely seems like Walt is very important, which is cool.
01-18-2006, 08:49 PM
Wow, what annoying and incredible incompetence. Chasing off after Michael without your only trained soldier, the cop, and the guy who killed two Others with his bare hands!! Instead of having a fit about Kate coming along, how about sending her back for some competent backup???
I hate when the plot is dependent on shear stupidity.
01-18-2006, 09:48 PM
It could be possible they aren't comfortable with her carrying around a gun.
01-18-2006, 09:54 PM
True, but as I mentioned, there are other options,taking none was just dumb.
BTW,did she give her's up? I don't remember.
Also, if you want to train an Army, don't you ask the soldier, not the cop??
01-18-2006, 11:07 PM
Ya, that was pretty stupid. And that was a sheer contest of wills, which of course Jack lost, as he is a little pussy.
The way I figured it, they could have armed about 8-10 people competent with guns and done some Others hunting..
Jack (apparently - not sure why)
So 8, not including the red shirts. I'd say 8 rifles would have intimidated those others a bit more than 3 goofs who didn't even notice that they got completely surrounded.
01-19-2006, 02:03 AM
If you mean they should've gone out looking for Michael in the first place with your army of eight, that's dumb. There was urgency to take off after Michael. They weren't planning on being surrounded by a dozen and a half silent torch wielding others. They weren't going looking for a fight, they were going to find Michael, and with polar bears and occasionally scary individuals and other random weird stuff on the island, guns seem like a good idea, but this was obviously more opposition than they had any reason to expect.
Originally Posted by Backov
If you mean they should've turned right around when they got back to camp and gone back hunting, your army of eight is hardly going to take the island by storm. Sawyer is ineffective at everything, Jin's got heart but he hasn't proven to be any kind of force to be reckoned with, and even Locke got caught tonight. Intimidating as Eko might be, Locke's probably the best tracker/hunter type, and if they can get the drop on him, they can get the drop on anyone.
Lloyd's absolutely right though, why would you ask the cop instead of the soldier?
01-19-2006, 05:42 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. All right, a caveat first, my DVR fucked up and I missed the last few minutes, but who says there were a dozen torch guys in the jungle? I saw one torch guy, and twelve torches that suspiciously lit at the exact same time. I'd say we need to look behind the curtain, and that there was only one or two other Others.
p.s. Can someone summarize what happened after the beard guy said how important Walt is and brought out Kate?
01-19-2006, 07:16 AM
Couple of possible reasons:
Originally Posted by Wholly Schmidt
1- Sayid was an interrogation/technical officer. He might not have the skills to train an army.
2- Jack may think he doesn't have the guts to do it.
3- Ana Lucia would make a better drill sargent type.
4- It allows Ana to enter people's good graces.
We haven't seen much of Sayid since Shannon's death. I wonder if his plot line has come and gone.
01-19-2006, 08:46 AM
It kind of irks me that Beardo says it's about time they had a little chat, but what's actually said after that? Almost nothing; Beardo talks in vague analogies and the hunting party doesn't really ask anything interesting. They have their little standoff, but we still learn next to nothing.
01-19-2006, 09:06 AM
Jack talks to Ana Lucia at the end because Kate broke his heart and let him down.
I think you're right about the Others, Houngan. The torch sequence was pure bullshitting. I think it's the Old man, Alex the child of crazy French lady, the two little kids from the tail section, and not many more than that. One of them is a wicked good shot, though, and has pegged Sawyer twice now before he could do squat.
01-19-2006, 09:26 AM
Don't forget the blond lady, "Zeke"'s research partner from the original black and white film (and the ship on which they took Walt).
Originally Posted by Odysseus
(I'm going to call him Zeke from now on, as Sawyer was right-on with that characterization).
01-19-2006, 09:40 AM
My gut reaction to Jack's last conversation with Sarah would have been like, "You're waiting till today to tell me you're leaving? I could have had sex with a hot Spanish chick tonight!"
The conversation with what IMDB labels as "Mr. Friendly" was very odd - you're right, it's very ambiguous and absolutely nothing is learned. They didn't even bother asking any of the questions you'd think one would ask (not that I recall). Zeke is basically saying, "You get to co-exist with us on the island under our whim." That was pretty much it.
And next week's... ugh. Looks like it's gonna be a very hateful episode with the hobbit.