Bin Laden Tries Divide and Conquer

[Woolen Horde]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4743768/

Now, the only question left is if the Europeans are cowardly enough to take him up on it

[Anders Hallin]

Hah!
Watch the ensuing accusations of following the word of bin Laden for every criticism directed againt Israel or the US.

(in other words, the question should be "will the 'Americans' be stupid enough to use it to increasing the divide?")

[Woolen Horde]

You think this is just about Israel? Al Queda has a video that showed the green of an Islamic superstate spreading all over the world. That included Europe. Sure, it's a pipe dream, but do you really think this is just about Israel?

[Anders Hallin]

You think this is just about Israel? Al Queda has a video that showed the green of an Islamic superstate spreading all over the world. That included Europe. Sure, it's a pipe dream, but do you really think this is just about Israel?
I never said it was, I said certain Americans and Per Ahlmark will use this to deflect criticism towards Israel and just about any action they construe as being part of the "war on terror" by saying that the critics run the errands of bin Laden and al-Qaeda.

[Jason McCullough]

You think this is just about Israel? Al Queda has a video that showed the green of an Islamic superstate spreading all over the world. That included Europe. Sure, it's a pipe dream, but do you really think this is just about Israel?

Yes.

(This has been easy answers to complicated questions).

More seriously - no Israeli problem, no Al Qaeda recruiting pool.

[asspennies]

More seriously - no Israeli problem, no Al Qaeda recruiting pool.

There is no "Israeli problem" as far as bin Laden is concerned, except for the fact that it exists at all. Are you advocating that we get rid of Israel?

[Jason McCullough]

More seriously - no Israeli problem, no Al Qaeda recruiting pool.

There is no "Israeli problem" as far as bin Laden is concerned, except for the fact that it exists at all. Are you advocating that we get rid of Israel?

Oh please. The Palestinians need some sort of state, they need to enforce an end to the bombings, and Isreal needs to stop shooting them. Even Bush (tm) agrees.

[Midnight Son]

I'm advocating getting rid of the Middle East completely. Oh sure, energy prices would spike for a while but in the end the world would be a much better place.

[Ben]

McCullough- I think you misunderstand. Unless you want to just give Israel to the Palestinians and steal some other chunk of land for the Jews, there will always be an Israel problem.

[Jason McCullough]

McCullough- I think you misunderstand. Unless you want to just give Israel to the Palestinians and steal some other chunk of land for the Jews, there will always be an Israel problem.

So you think the Palestianian people won't accept anything short of kicking Israel out? That's Hamas, not the public.

[Rotor]

If the Palestianian state is such a huge issue with the Middle Eastern people (Arabs) then why haven't they banded together as one and approached the UN to get a Palestianian state established? They are not stupid people and can see that Israel isn't "going away". So why not collectively address them to establish a Palestianian state peacefully?

I seriously doubt that the Palestianian state gets any play on Arab mental tasks...the Palestianians have been kicked out of most of the Arab countries already...Jordan doesn't want them, Syria doesn't want them and Lebanon doesn't want them....

Darwinism at its most obvious

[Linoleum]

So you think the Palestianian people won't accept anything short of kicking Israel out? That's Hamas, not the public.

And I finally understand why on so many issues I look at your statements regarding the middle east, scratch my head and think 'where is he coming from?'.

You actually believe the majority of the Palestinians have ever accepted the right of Israel to exist.

[Kalle]

The majority of Palestinians want the conflict to end peacefully, and are willing to make concessions towards Israel to ensure that. If accepting Israel as a state means that people can get back to work, visit relatives two towns over without spending half a day in roadblock and the end of curfews, then yes, I believe that the majority of Palestinians would be willing to do that.

[asspennies]

So you think the Palestianian people won't accept anything short of kicking Israel out? That's Hamas, not the public.

You know, it's this kind of thinking that inspired Bush to think that the Iraqis wouldn't fight back, or that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Same kind of deluding yourself based on ideals in front of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Jason McCullough]

What Kalle said. Right now Israel's shooting them up left and right, and still something like half the Palestianians in polls are willing to make reasonable compromises, blah blah. I truly don't get the conservative apocalyptic rhetoric about them.

What's this "overwhelming evidence" they're unmovable bastards? And if that's the case, what's your solution?

Darwinism at its most obvious

Do crawl back in your hole, will you?

[Rotor]

Hole or no hole, it's really too bad that the other Arab states refuse to form a "Coalition of Peace" and sponsor a peaceful solution. They're just too happy to sit back and criticize US for not "allowing" and "providing" the Palestinians to have a home of thier own....

Yup, it's all OUR fault.

[Jason McCullough]

Maybe, but trotting out neo-Darwinism to justify everything you to do a group of people is a bit much, don't you think?

[bago]

Like any Arab country has ever done anything for the Palestinians other than expel them and use them as a scapegoat. Syria killed more palestinians in a month than Israel ever has.

[Jason McCullough]

Like any Arab country has ever done anything for the Palestinians other than expel them and use them as a scapegoat. Syria killed more palestinians in a month than Israel ever has.

Last time I checked, there weren't any arab governments resembling a democracy, so I'm not sure of the relevance.

[Bullhajj]

Like any Arab country has ever done anything for the Palestinians other than expel them and use them as a scapegoat. Syria killed more palestinians in a month than Israel ever has.

Last time I checked, there weren't any arab governments resembling a democracy, so I'm not sure of the relevance.

Yeah, it's kind of like saying, "At least we're not as bad as the Nazi party!"

[Ben]

Damning with faint praise is still praise. Being not as bad as the Nazis is a hell of a lot better than the alternative, and it's fundamentally unfair the way certain nations(cough, US, cough, Israel) get held to such higher standards.

[Kalle]

Damning with faint praise is still praise. Being not as bad as the Nazis is a hell of a lot better than the alternative, and it's fundamentally unfair the way certain nations(cough, US, cough, Israel) get held to such higher standards.

Oh, it's unfair to expect democratic nations to conform to a higher standard of behavior than terrorists, rebels and dictatorships. I see. So does that mean that the US should set up a secret police to promote order and squash dissidents? Shoot leaders of opposing parties? I mean it would be unfair if only the bad guys could do it.

[Bullhajj]

With great power comes great responsibiliy, Peter... er, I mean, Ben. :)

[Midnight Son]

Damning with faint praise is still praise. Being not as bad as the Nazis is a hell of a lot better than the alternative, and it's fundamentally unfair the way certain nations(cough, US, cough, Israel) get held to such higher standards.

Oh, it's unfair to expect democratic nations to conform to a higher standard of behavior than terrorists, rebels and dictatorships. I see. So does that mean that the US should set up a secret police to promote order and squash dissidents? Shoot leaders of opposing parties? I mean it would be unfair if only the bad guys could do it.

Ha ha ha! See Patriot Act and various top secret tribunal rulings.

[Ben]

Kalle- No, it's unfair to give non-democracies a pass for that bullshit. Everyone should do better. Christ, what the fuck kind of answer was that? Are you trying to be dense?

[Anders Hallin]

Kalle- No, it's unfair to give non-democracies a pass for that bullshit. Everyone should do better. Christ, what the fuck kind of answer was that? Are you trying to be dense?
If you think it's unfair to hold totalitarian states to lower standards, then you should write that.

[bago]

Right now Israel's shooting them up left and right,


Just comparing the rates of "shooting them up".

In absolute terms, Israel treats its palestinians better than most any other arab country, and yet they are still the main focus of the onus.

If oppression/slaughter was the true reason for suicide bombings, then Syria would be the target, as they have killed FAR more Palestinians.

[Bullhajj]

In absolute terms, Israel treats its palestinians better than most any other arab country, and yet they are still the main focus of the onus.

One reason for that is that the Israelis have occupied the Palestinian's home land, but no other Arab country has. You probably knew that on some level, but just really wanted some way to defend Israel.

[Bub, Andrew]

How can Bin Ladin possibly succeed with a "divide and conquer"? GWBush is a "Uniter"... remember?

[Jason McCullough]

In absolute terms, Israel treats its palestinians better than most any other arab country, and yet they are still the main focus of the onus.

If oppression/slaughter was the true reason for suicide bombings, then Syria would be the target, as they have killed FAR more Palestinians.

It's really amazing the rationalizations some people will come up with. Based on what's been said so far, there's apparently a bunch of people who think the Arab world is faking its outrage over the Palestinian question.

[Anders Hallin]

It's perfectly possible that leaders in Arabian nations are faking it, but certainly not individual Arabs.

And of course, that they're treating "their Palestinians better" isn't saying anything at all, and certainly not when "better" still means their economy have been halved in the last couple of years.

[Brad Grenz]

They may not be faking it, but those Arab states would appear to have zero interest in the problem actually being solved. It distracts their populations from their own atrocities. I would say have have a vested interest in the madness continuing indefinitely.

[Jason McCullough]

They may not be faking it, but those Arab states would appear to have zero interest in the problem actually being solved. It distracts their populations from their own atrocities. I would say have have a vested interest in the madness continuing indefinitely.

Maybe I'm not clear enough: I really don't give much a shit about the governments of Arab countries; they're all dictatorships constrained only by the possibility of revolt.

I am interested in what the actual people living in the region think, movitations, and so on. And it seems pretty obvious they're really concerned with the Palestinians.

[bago]

I'm just putting forth a simple test of motives.

Everything Israel has done to the Palestinians (forecefully remove from ancestral homes, kill, main, card, etc) Syria has done much worse.

Logically, the Palestinians should be bombing the Syrians.

[Jason McCullough]

Ah. Well, that was back before they really developed a national identity, and people don't get as angry when it's your same cultural group doing it, they aren't doing it right now, etc., etc.

[bago]

It's not exactly logic driving the process, now is it?

[Jason McCullough]

I agree, logic isn't driving the process. On either side.