Ashcroft: bringing the first obscenity charges in ten years

[Jason McCullough]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.obscenity06apr06,0,3004361.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

Unbelievable.

In this field office in Washington, 32 prosecutors, investigators and a handful of FBI agents are spending millions of dollars to bring anti-obscenity cases to courthouses across the country for the first time in 10 years. Nothing is off limits, they warn, even soft-core cable programs such as HBO's long-running Real Sex or the adult movies widely offered in guestrooms of major hotel chains.

Either way, Nguyen, father of a 2-year-old girl, and his co-workers spend their days scouring the Internet for the most obscene material, following leads sent in by citizens and tracking pornographers operating under different names. The job wears on them all, day after day, so much so that the obscenity division has recently set up in-house counseling for them to talk about what they're seeing and how it is affecting them.

"This stuff isn't the easiest to deal with," Nguyen said recently while at his computer. "But I think we're going after the bad guys and we're making a difference, and that's what makes it worthwhile."

Can reporters transcribe this with a straight face?

[Rywill]

What a fucking lunatic. I can't remember ever having a more evangelical, insane AG.

[Toddy]

Er, Ed Meese? If somebody'd plowed planes into the WTC in 1983, Ed would be right up there with Ashcroft. According to an article I just found via Google, Ed's recently attacked librarians over the Patriot Act, too, saying that they'd rather deal pornography than fight terrorism. Sheesh. Will this guy just fucking die already?

But wow--softcore? And isn't the right to hotel room porn set forth in the Constitution? I've already got a bit of a problem with the online sting operations--I'm against child porn as much as the next guy, but man it seems like a waste of time to have FBI agents hanging out in chat rooms with 13-year-old girls to entrap pervs (why not use this money to increase police patrols around schools and parks? wouldn't that be more likely to protect kids from nuts?)--but this is insane.

[bago]

Perhaps somebody forgot there are more important things going on.


You want a distraction for homeland security? Howabout looking for porn?

Yeah, lets get the FBI looking for porn instead of bombs! Cause, like, those bombs are just SO hard to find!

[Doug Erickson]

Well, nothing'll get Bush out of office faster than a direct attack on every American's God-given right to spank material.

[noun]

Can the segment of hardcore fundamentalist conservative voter base really be that large to risk alienating the rest of the country? Has this country ever swung this far to the right in our history?

[Mark Asher]

It's going to be as difficult for politicians to criticize Ashcroft for going after porn as it is for them to go on record as being in favor of gay marriages.

[Woolen Horde]

Can the segment of hardcore fundamentalist conservative voter base really be that large to risk alienating the rest of the country? Has this country ever swung this far to the right in our history?

And the crazy thing is, it's not as if Bush has a mandate for this. He actually got half a million less votes than the other guy!

[Squirrel Killer]

And the crazy thing is, it's not as if Bush has a mandate for this. He actually got half a million less votes than the other guy!

:roll:

[extarbags]

Oh here we go.

1) Bush did win the electoral college.

2) The electoral college is stupid.

There, debate over.

[Midnight Son]

Ok here we go.

1) If the recount hadn't been stopped by the Supreme Court, he would have lost Florida's electoral votes.

2) He wouldn't be prez today.

3) The world would be a better place.

[extarbags]

Ok here we go.

1) If the recount hadn't been stopped by the Supreme Court, he would have lost Florida's electoral votes.

2) He wouldn't be prez today.

3) The world would be a better place.

1) I thought it worked out that Bush would have kept the electoral votes after all.

2) ...

3) Profit!

[John Reynolds]

Well, if some of those minorities in FL hadn't committed felonies in 2007 they would've been able to vote in 2000.

[extarbags]

I don't know what that means.

[Squirrel Killer]

I thought it worked out that Bush would have kept the electoral votes after all.

IIRC, there was one convoluted combination of counting standards (that no one, especially Gore, had argued for) that led to Gore win with a smaller margin than the Bush win.

[extarbags]

I thought it worked out that Bush would have kept the electoral votes after all.

IIRC, there was one convoluted combination of counting standards (that no one, especially Gore, had argued for) that led to Gore win with a smaller margin than the Bush win.

Ok then. I stand by my original assertion that Gore won the actual vote, Bush won the electoral vote, and the electoral college is stupid.

[noun]

Bush was elected by the Supreme Court when they issued their ruling regarding the recount, bottom line. That's irrefutable.

As for the votes themselves...here's the thing. The margin of error was larger than the number of votes separating the winner from the loser. And considering what a clusterfuck the whole Florida recount was, I'm inclined to believe the margin of error across the country was much higher than reported. So the answer to that question lies forever within some quantum vortex that will never be determined.

[XPav]

So the answer to that question lies forever within some quantum vortex that will never be determined.
Perhaps we should just put the candidates in a Schroedinger box.

[Jason McCullough]

Should politicians who lost the popular vote and were installed through a lawsuit act as if they won by a two-thirds majority?

[Midnight Son]

And should Ralph Nader be made to drive a Corvair off a cliff? Why, jez!

[Slothrop]

Can the segment of hardcore fundamentalist conservative voter base really be that large to risk alienating the rest of the country? Has this country ever swung this far to the right in our history?
I heard a startling statistic on NPR today; 60% of the American population believes the Bible to be historically true. I think that answers your question.

The ensuing years saw an explosion of porn, so much so that critics say that Americans' tolerance for sexually explicit material rivals that of Europeans.
Jesus, we Americans are becoming some sick fucks. :D

[Kyle Wilson]

The ensuing years saw an explosion of porn, so much so that critics say that Americans' tolerance for sexually explicit material rivals that of Europeans.
Jesus, we Americans are becoming some sick fucks. :D

I'm sure they meant the British, not the Swedes or the Germans or something similarly extreme.

[Anders Hallin]

Would this apply?
http://www.eccehomo.nu/eng/gallery.html
(may not work in Firefox)

[Ergo]

Would this apply?
http://www.eccehomo.nu/eng/gallery.html
(may not work in Firefox)
Well, according to the Bible, Jesus did spend all of his time alone with a group of young men. Who's to say?

[antlers]

The recount the Florida Supreme Court (which should have had final jurisdiction, since it was a matter of interpreting Flordia election law) ordered, which would have recounted every county, woulsd have had Gore won.

If people's votes in Palm Beach county had counted the way the people who voted thought they would be counted, Gore would have won (the exit polls weren't wrong; the ballots were so screwed up that what people thought they had voted didn't match what was counted).

If the electoral college had given up on Florida as being undecidable and not counted their electoral votes (which is what I thought the solution should be, and if the electoral college doesn't have that much discretion what good is it?) Gore would have won.

[Tom McNamara]

Perhaps somebody forgot there are more important things going on.

Unless you're busy currying the fundamentalist vote.

[Chris Nahr]

Why is everyone so surprised? That's the same country that tried to ban alcohol, tries to ban tobacco, continues to wage a war on pot, does not allow boobies on TV or films below NC-17 (I think?), bleeps out coarse language on radio and TV, arrests people who have sex with 16 year olds as "child abusers", and has a very populous state that goes after people selling dildos.

Looks more like an issue with the common Puritan heritage to me than a left/right thing. Let's ban everything that's fun! (Except graphic depictions of extreme violence, that's good for the children.)

[extarbags]

Why is everyone so surprised? That's the same country that tried to ban alcohol, tries to ban tobacco, continues to wage a war on pot, does not allow boobies on TV or films below NC-17 (I think?), bleeps out coarse language on radio and TV, arrests people who have sex with 16 year olds as "child abusers", and has a very populous state that goes after people selling dildos.

Looks more like an issue with the common Puritan heritage to me than a left/right thing. Let's ban everything that's fun! (Except graphic depictions of extreme violence, that's good for the children.)

The really disturbing thing is that you're only wrong about one of those. You can have boobs in as low as PG-13, if it's brief.

[Guido Jones]

You can have a NC-17 (or higher) movie - you just won't get into theaters because the theather owners won't carry it. It's why Evil Dead 1 is still unrated in fact :P

[extarbags]

You can have a NC-17 (or higher) movie - you just won't get into theaters because the theather owners won't carry it. It's why Evil Dead 1 is still unrated in fact :P

I think you're confused.

[Guido Jones]

And why do you think that?

[extarbags]

And why do you think that?

He didn't say anything about not being allowed to have an NC-17 movie, he said (incorrectly, as I pointed out) that you couldn't have boobs in anything less.

[Guido Jones]

Oh, I just read the or as a new statement. NM then

[Squirrel Killer]

The recount the Florida Supreme Court (which should have had final jurisdiction, since it was a matter of interpreting Flordia election law) ordered, which would have recounted every county, woulsd have had Gore won.

Re: FLSC Final Jurisdiction

Your statement that the Florida Supreme Court should have had final jurisdiction is factually incorrect. State supreme court decisions get appealed all the time. (I don't know the actual stats, and concede state supreme court appeals may make up a very small proportion of USSC cases, but it does happen with some regularity.) I realize the Wikipedia isn't the most authorative source, but it's all I'm finding in short order:

As with all federal courts, the jurisdiction of the court is limited. While the Supreme Court has original jurisdiction in a few cases such as suits between states, most of its work consists of appellate review of cases from state supreme courts or from lower federal courts.

Cohens v. Virginia (19 U.S. 264) was the case that set the precedent for USSC's jurisdiction over state supreme courts.

[Anti-Bunny]

Judge refuses to dismiss Stagliano's Obscenity charge (http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/12/federal-judge-declines-to-dismiss-obscenity-case.html?cid=6a00d83451d94869e20120a774ebe6970b)

"Contemporary community standards" apparently means something different to the court then it does to anyone with an internet connection.

[Flowers]

Community standards for obscenity. Must we all masturbate to the same thing? If there's one argument for allowing pornographers freedom to dream up new sex acts, it's that I don't think any of us could handle the possibility that we might be masturbating to the same girl as our fathers, at the same time as our fathers. I don't even like to vote for the same county comptroller as my father, let alone imaginate the same sweaty hairpulling session with the same portly redhead. The horror of that mental conjuction is such that you'd expect at that point a wizard to appear and force you to space dock penises with your old little league coach.

The more porn there is, the better your odds. I look forward to five years from now, when pornography is as endless and incomprehensible as The Book of Sand.

[bago]

The more porn there is, the better your odds. I look forward to five years from now, when pornography is as endless and incomprehensible as The Book of Sand.

And you wonder how they got a sandy vagina in the first place.

[Munky]

If the internet is the community, the community has no standards. I mean, goatse.cx, Tubgirl, Lemon Party, 2 Girls 1 Cup, etc. And that way lies madness. And Whittalinks.

[Anti-Bunny]

If the internet is the community, the community has no standards. I mean, goatse.cx, Tubgirl, Lemon Party, 2 Girls 1 Cup, etc. And that way lies madness. And Whittalinks.

So the answer is to lock those web providers in federal prison? Really? Because that is exactly what happened here.

[Talisker]

I wouldn't complain if any jackhole who tricked me into clicking tubgirl or whatever were to spend a night in County.

(not seriously, but you know what I mean)

[Munky]

So the answer is to lock those web providers in federal prison? Really? Because that is exactly what happened here.
How you got that from my off-the-cuff quip is a bit of a puzzler. It would have been less torturous to take away "I wish the internet had some standards. Any standards. I want better pr0n." I will now give in (again) to my irrational fear of posting in P&R.

[Adam B]

How you got that from my off-the-cuff quip is a bit of a puzzler. It would have been less torturous to take away "I wish the internet had some standards. Any standards. I want better pr0n." I will now give in (again) to my irrational fear of posting in P&R.

Don't let A-B troll you out of P&R. That just means he wins.