View Full Version : Salon's "Why We Fight"
wumpus
10-04-2002, 06:34 PM
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/10/04/why_we_fight/index.html
If I didn't know better, I'd swear this Wagner James Au guy is improving. Of course it's all uphill from that Black and White review.
Met_K
10-04-2002, 06:54 PM
Au's a schmuck.
In related news, Salon is now trading at 1 penny a share.
https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/quotesresearch?qmenu=2&prod=SALNC:NSDQ:EQ
JFeil
10-05-2002, 11:29 AM
Is there a single, coherent thought in this? How can a guy go from talking about tactical shooters to bashing leftists to quoting Henry Jenkins to spouting heavily pro-american "war is inevitable, and all al-quaeda must die because they are fascist hate-mongers" to Novalogic is putting out a new Delta Force game to etc. etc.
4 pages of this stuff is too long.
Desslock
10-05-2002, 01:19 PM
>Salon is now trading at 1 penny a share
Ha ha! Au's article caused the company to lose 75% of its value in one day. The boy is poison.
Jason McCullough
10-05-2002, 01:34 PM
I think Wagner Au or Au Wagner or whatever the #)($*#$ is really a doctoral thesis CS project attempting to simulate a litcrit graduate student.
Brian Koontz
10-06-2002, 12:12 AM
You guys are being a bit hard on the guy. *That* article at least had some merits... I very much valued the soldier talking about the relationship between his FPS experience and his military war experience. An interesting read.
The heavy Pro-America slant made me fairly sick, however.
Despite being pretentious (with Au fitting in well), Salon manages to provide good material on a semi-regular basis.
Jason McCullough
10-06-2002, 03:56 AM
Finding a good source in the soldier and letting him talk in no way makes up for the atrocious article itself. :(
Edit: Not that this sentence is any better. Ow.
Union Carbide
10-06-2002, 12:12 PM
His Au-ness said:
There's nothing generic about the opponents in NovaLogic's Delta Force: Black Hawk Down, who fire at you from turret-mounted jeeps
Errr. . .
It'd probably be easier for them to drive and shoot from Jeep mounted turrets, but maybe that's just me.
Dr Fear
10-06-2002, 04:05 PM
Despite being pretentious...
shouldn't you be the last guy on earth to complain about something being pretentious?
Brian Koontz
10-06-2002, 11:16 PM
Despite being pretentious...
shouldn't you be the last guy on earth to complain about something being pretentious?
Don't confuse ambition with pretension.
Met_K
10-07-2002, 12:22 AM
Don't confuse ambition with pretension.
Go away. Now.
Anonymous
10-07-2002, 12:40 AM
Don't confuse ambition with pretension.
Go away. Now.
Yawn.
Alan Au
10-07-2002, 01:50 AM
Obligatory disclaimer for the more recently joined Qt3ers: I am not related to that Wagner James guy.
- Alan "not related to Wagner James" Au
* this announcement brought to you by the Qt3 Department of Redundancy Department
Met_K
10-07-2002, 06:39 AM
There should be therapy groups for those who have the misfortune of being related to Au (Wagner James, not Alan).
Anonymous
10-07-2002, 11:39 AM
After reading one of Au's Salon essays a year or so ago, I looked up his phone number in the White Pages and called him up, introducing myself and imploring him never to write again.
When he published his next Salon essay, I got hold of his editor at Salon and implored him to stop buying Au's hysterical pitches.
Both of them blew me off. At least I can say I've done all I can, short of physical interdiction, to put a halt to him.
JFeil
10-07-2002, 04:30 PM
Probably, it is the reaction that WJAu gets from his readers that makes him valuable as a "writer you love to hate." Only there is no hate, and no love.
Guys, I might not be in the loop of things, but I thought Wagner James Au was a pretty good gaming journalist.
He wrote that lovely article about the fall of Looking Glass Studios a few years back (ok maybe I am a bit biased about that article since I was mentioned in it!), and other pieces of his I was impressed of.
Can someone give me the low-down on perhaps why all this discussion on his ability (or lack thereof) to write articles relating to the gaming community?
Chris Floyd
10-09-2002, 12:53 PM
In an attempt to be fair, I think the main reason Au is attacked around here is basically his pretention. He's the most visible member of the group of game journalists that want to "scholasticize" gaming. They generally want to advance it as an art form (or potential art form -- they are quick to point out how immature it is), analyze it like literature, and discuss its significance to life and popular culture. This isn't meant as a personal attack, but Brian Koontz does the same thing around here and faces similar... um... dialectic reprisal.
I have a feeling Au is exactly the sort of person a site like Salon wants. He discusses a popular subject (video games) in a way that legitimizes it for a "serious" and "thoughtful" readership.
Bub, Andrew
10-09-2002, 01:05 PM
The problem though Chris, is that he does it clumsily. Salon's editors probably don't care enough about videogames as a subject to notice... or care.
Jason McCullough
10-09-2002, 01:09 PM
It'd be one thing if he's good at it. Au's not; it's painful to read.
Anonymous
10-09-2002, 01:17 PM
The problem though Chris, is that he does it clumsily. Salon's editors probably don't care enough about videogames as a subject to notice... or care.
I would bet that Salon doesn't really want to cover games, but will bite if they're coated in a intellectual-sounding, "high concept" treatment.
Then again, the style is pretty consistent with other stuff in the zine, so maybe it's not the writer so much as it is Salon itself.
Gordon Cameron
10-09-2002, 03:03 PM
In an attempt to be fair, I think the main reason Au is attacked around here is basically his pretention. He's the most visible member of the group of game journalists that want to "scholasticize" gaming. They generally want to advance it as an art form (or potential art form -- they are quick to point out how immature it is), analyze it like literature, and discuss its significance to life and popular culture. This isn't meant as a personal attack, but Brian Koontz does the same thing around here and faces similar... um... dialectic reprisal.
Well, speaking of scholasticizing gaming, I thought you guys might enjoy a quote from "Pilgrim in the Microworld." This book was written about 20 years ago by sociology professor David Sudnow, and goes on for 225 pages about his attempts to master Breakout on the Atari 2600.
Here's a snippet:
"The full sequencing, calibrating, caressing potentials of human hands now create sights, sounds, and movements. And the eyes are free to watch, wonder, and direct from above, free to witness the spectacle and help the hands along without looking down. A keyboard for painters, a canvas for pianists. With lots of programs to choose from, lots of ways to instantaneously vary and organize the tunings and makeup of the palette. All the customary boundaries get blurred when you're painting paragraphs, performing etchings, sketching movies, and graphing music.
"I was hooked."
I'd hate to think what he would have had to say about Super Breakout. ;)
I don't think however that there's anything inherently wrong with discussing gaming in a "serious" way. It's a widespread human activity and all widespread human activities are worth studying I suppose. But there is apparently a fine line between real, valuable, non-patronizing commentary, and pretentious windbaggery.
Chris Floyd
10-09-2002, 05:12 PM
Good point, Gordon. I think there's a difference between an intelligent discussion of gaming and over-analyzing it. I think the boundary is when you start taking it out of context as a game. When you start insisting that a game is significant because of its statements on the human condition or its powerful use of metaphor and completely ignore how much challenge and entertainment it brings you, then I think you've crossed the line. In the same way, I think you've crossed a line in discussing a painting or poem when you concentrate more on its sociological statements or political agenda instead of addressing its technique and aesthetic qualities.
Jim Preston
10-09-2002, 05:27 PM
I don't think anyone here is really that opposed to discussing games in an intelligent way; that's why we're here and not on IGN's boards. But the problem with Au is not only his pretention, but he is poor observer and has only questionable journalistic ability.
In his Columbine piece he took a quote from Dan Morris that was ridiculously out of context. In his E3-is-sexist piece who looked down his nose at the use or sexuality to peek gamer's interest all the while Salon is running a "subscribe and see our erotic photo section!" banner next to the column. His attack on the Xbox just before its launch had bad facts, misspelled Miyamoto and read like it was penned by Sony PR. And his review of Black & White is notorious.
It's not just that he is pretentious, but he's sloppy and not all the insightful. I can think of at least a dozen freelancers off the top of my head who outclass that guy by a mile.
Did you guys read the Looking Glass Studios article he wrote on Salon? Here's the link:
http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/20/dark_glass/
I think he did a real good job on the article, although I haven't read it in a long time. Be sure to check it out if you haven't.
And while I agree that Au is trying to give the 'intellectual' vibe (that Salon posesses) in his articles he writes, I think it's in that style that distinguishes Salon from other independent publications. And that's the thing I love about Salon. They analyze and write about things that ordinarily you wouldn't analyze.. or things you think about, but only sub-consciously.
You guys are claiming that Au is being pretentious.. I really don't think he's trying to claim something that's false -- he's simply stating the fact that people should realize that the gaming industry and video games is becoming an emerging art form. I might have missed it, but where does he state or claim unjustistified positions of merit, hence being pretentious?
On a side note, I think I'm going to register for Salon premium shortly... :)
voltaic
10-11-2002, 03:34 PM
Why did you have to bring up Looking Glass? Now I'm about to cry again...
Jason McCullough
10-11-2002, 03:34 PM
On a side note, I think I'm going to register for Salon premium shortly... :)
Enjoy those Brother Void and Andrew Sullivan articles!
Met_K
10-11-2002, 03:47 PM
Did you guys read the Looking Glass Studios article he wrote on Salon? Here's the link:
http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/20/dark_glass/
I think he did a real good job on the article, although I haven't read it in a long time. Be sure to check it out if you haven't.
And while I agree that Au is trying to give the 'intellectual' vibe (that Salon posesses) in his articles he writes, I think it's in that style that distinguishes Salon from other independent publications. And that's the thing I love about Salon. They analyze and write about things that ordinarily you wouldn't analyze.. or things you think about, but only sub-consciously.
You guys are claiming that Au is being pretentious.. I really don't think he's trying to claim something that's false -- he's simply stating the fact that people should realize that the gaming industry and video games is becoming an emerging art form. I might have missed it, but where does he state or claim unjustistified positions of merit, hence being pretentious?
On a side note, I think I'm going to register for Salon premium shortly... :)
Either you're really fucking stupid, or you're a horrible troll. Being a horrible troll means that you're probably pretty fucking stupid as well, but if you're really just a moron, I'd at least claim it on some genetic defect. I mean, it's the easiest way out, isn't it? Even someone of your highly esteemed intelligence can think up a good excuse as to why you're a bumblefuck.
I hereby award you no points and may God have mercy upon your soul.
TomChick
10-11-2002, 03:58 PM
Hey, I wonder if this James Wagner Au guy related to Alan Au?
-Tom
TomChick
10-11-2002, 03:58 PM
...just kidding, Alan. :)
-Tom
Kool Moe Dee
10-11-2002, 11:05 PM
...just kidding, Alan. :)
I like how you got that onto the second page. Did you plan that? :P
Anonymous
10-12-2002, 03:12 PM
There's like a couple thousand Aus in the entire country, so
I'm guessing there's a not-to-distant common relative in the
pile. (Especially if Alan or his family is orginally from the
Canton province.)
GMicek
10-12-2002, 04:42 PM
Hey, I wonder if this James Wagner Au guy related to Alan Au?
I always thought they were one in the same for some reason.
Met_K
10-12-2002, 05:16 PM
I always thought they were one in the same for some reason.
Alan's probably on his way to kick your ass right now. I'd suggest cyanide.
Met,
first off, why don't you calm the fuck down. No need to start cussing people out for sharing their ideas and openly encouraging mature discussion. If you don't have anything relevant to say regarding this topic of James Au and Salon, then calmly shut the fuck up. If somehow a miracle happens and shit stops coming out of your mouth, then I'm open to hearing your opinion(s) on if/why Au is or isn't a reputable gaming journalist.
Thanks, buddy.
GMicek
10-13-2002, 01:21 AM
I always thought they were one in the same for some reason.
Alan's probably on his way to kick your ass right now. I'd suggest cyanide.
Hahaha, no doubt. At the QT3 GDC get together i'll be the guy hiding in the bushes.
Met_K
10-13-2002, 02:45 AM
Met,
first off, why don't you calm the fuck down. No need to start cussing people out for sharing their ideas and openly encouraging mature discussion. If you don't have anything relevant to say regarding this topic of James Au and Salon, then calmly shut the fuck up. If somehow a miracle happens and shit stops coming out of your mouth, then I'm open to hearing your opinion(s) on if/why Au is or isn't a reputable gaming journalist.
Thanks, buddy.
I'm a never-ending stream of shit. A walking, talking assnozzle. Don't you read these things?
Thanks, buddy.
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