No One Lives Forever 2

[Jason Lutes]

I'm loving it! I've only just cracked Project Omega and am about to fight my way back out of the base, but the game is an utter blast to play so far. And on normal difficulty it's posing quite a challenge, thanks in part to the enemy AI.

Anyone else agree that in this area (AI) they've pretty much set the high water mark? Bad guys seem to go about their business differently every time, so that replaying a level with the exact same approach can garner entirely different results. It really encourages thinking and acting on the fly as the situation unfolds, which results in some terrific "cinematic" moments. They'll flip on the lights in a darkened room, investigate a door left ajar or footprints in the snow, all behavior I've never seen before in a computer game and which really heightens the tension of stealthy action.

I know most of you will probabaly be picking it up if you haven't got it already -- and I don't think it'll disappoint.

[Sean Tudor]

Oh I can't wait to get this game. When is it coming out in Australia ?! :?:

[Anonymous]

I spent most of this afternoon searching for a copy of this game to no luck. Just have to try again over the weekend. :cry:

I did however snag a new demo disc in some publication that includes an exclusive teaser look at one of the Siberia levels NOT included in the Official demo release. Pretty sweet! Any more Teaser/demo releases and I'll have played most of the game before getting my hands on a copy.

[Jim Preston]

While I agree that NOLF2 is a fantastic game, and is so far my pick for Game of the Year (I'm enjoying it more than BF1942 or Jedi Knight II, my other favorites), I have found some rough edges on the AI.

For example, in the Siberia levels, I killed about 5 guys and dumped their bodies in the bathroom before I realized there were infinite guards. When I left to plant a bomb and came back to the room, I noticed a guard going on his patrols -- in a comepletely dark room with five bodies at his feet. He didn't seem at all concerned about the carnage on the floor.

In another section a guard spotted me and ran after me. I ran into a building, turned off the light, then ran into another room and turned off the light. He came into the first room, looked around for a second, called me a slippery capatilist and then left even though he clearly saw me run into the room. Perhaps the difficulty level had something to do with it (I'm playing on the default.)

But apart from these minor problems, NOLF2 is a fantastic improvement over a very good original.

[Anonymous]

In another section a guard spotted me and ran after me. I ran into a building, turned off the light, then ran into another room and turned off the light. He came into the first room, looked around for a second, called me a slippery capatilist and then left even though he clearly saw me run into the room. Perhaps the difficulty level had something to do with it (I'm playing on the default.)


I think this is just their way of making it fun and playable. Obviously, the guards are stoned idiots. But the fact that they react to stimuli in a predictable and sorta logical way is really cool.

But it did take me awhile to figure them out; for example, they can only see about 50', so you can walk around in the open without fear of being spotted as long as you keep your distance. Now that I've accepted that, and their other quirks, I'm having a blast being sneaky.

Have you caught any of the guards going for a piss? Pretty surprsing the first time I saw it: he walked to a secluded wall and let out a stream. SO I SHOT HIM!

[Rywill]

There are other games that have done similar things with AI -- Thief springs to mind, and actually Commandos did similar stuff although it was a very different kind of game.

I'm psyched to hear that stealth is a viable option in NOLF2. I love that stuff and have been crying into my beer ever since Looking Glass closed down. Very few FPSes implement stealth in any kind of useful way. (And don't get me started on Deus Ex, the ultimate bait-and-switch game. Stealth works really well until you have about 25 hours invested in it, and then suddenly it's useless and there's no way to re-allocate your skills. Thanks, Warren--you're an asshole. Great game up until then, though.)

[Anonymous]

I have run into several quirks in the AI just playing the various demos, mainly nitpicky stuff that involves an enemy guard's priorities to go and check for a pulse on the nearest pile of dead bodies instead of trying to eliminate or avoid the evil presence(Cate or me) standing 3 feet away as I plunk another bullet into yet another victim as if they were dominoes lined up and ready.

No big deal though, I mean there have been many occasions where I have found myself more impressed by the AI actions than dissapoointed. After clearing out a cottage in the recent Siberia teaser demo, I turned on the lights in the room only to hear a guard whom I hadn't noticed outside wonder to himself what was going on in the empty cabin, so I turned off the lights, waited in a dark corner(silenced pistol ready)and as he entered the cabin cautious, curious, and nervous, I let him have it. Not the most impressive example, but I was shocked at the ease of playability the entire scene played out. I really felt like quite the sleuth...with a license to kill of course.

Oh and NO quickloads or quicksaves necessary! My main problem with most 'stealth' based FPS titles. I really couldn't get much into the Thief games because of the over-reliance on using those cheap hotkeys to keep resimulating the same scenario until you were able to crawl past a certain obstacle only to go through the same tedious motions all over again for the next set of obstacles in your path. Save/Load, Save/Load, etc...

With NOLF2 the stealth elements have finally reached(or begun to reach) a similar level of playability as the usual run and gun methods. progress can be made without placing bookmarks at each and every enemy encounter. It's about damn time! (If you couldn't already tell, I actually RESPECT games that limit the gamer to a certain number of quicksaves per area...) I just don't respect most titles that make the stealth elemtns so insanely difficult to contend with that a huge reliance on the save structure is required to make progression comfortable. Thief II just didn't flow particularly well in this area for me. Great game, just not all that enjoyable to play through.

Oh, and can anyone comment on the use of security cameras in NOLF2? Despite the flaws in going stealth in that title, I really enjoyed dodging and outwitting the placements of the guard patterns and cameras in that game. I loved how lenient they were in detecting you and the various options you had in progressing past them to reach "POINT B". A lot of the time I felt like I was playing an enjoyable Metal Gear clone in a FP perspective. Do they still follow a similar system where you have a second or two to hide as they try to focus on Cate? Mix in the AI enhancements and I can't wait to face some of these challenges!

[Anonymous]

>> Oh, and can anyone comment on the use of security cameras in NOLF2? Despite the flaws in going stealth in that title, I really enjoyed dodging and outwitting the placements of the guard patterns and cameras in that game.

There didn't seem to be anywhere near as many cameras in NOLF2. I remember in the first game, it seemed like you had to follow an invisible line on the ground in some cases or else you'd be spotted. In NOLF2, you're usually given enough camera disabler ammo (assuming you take the time to search for it) to progress unimpeded, and not have to duck from camera station to camera station.

Overall, NOLF2 has a more natural feel to it, where NOLF1's guard patterns seemed more like a puzzle you had to solve.

- Sluggo

[Anonymous]

Yea, I can agree to that, the camera layouts did feel like glorified puzzles in some ways. While you can approach them in a few variations, for the most part there was always just one direct route through them you had to deal with. Half the game's levels were pretty much involved getting from Point A to point B pushing through the obstacle course Monolith had set up, and while I enjoyed each scenario for the most part, it didn't really feel natural as you say. More like filler you had to just push through.

So if you disable cameras now, the security guards watching on the other end don't catch on?

[Alan Au]

Well, in the original game, you used a special disabler that made it appear (to the guard watching the monitor) that the camera was still working.

- Alan

[Anonymous]

Yea, it's kind of funny, I pretty much played through the entire game of NOLF1 without utilizing half of the gadgets. Because of the broken stealth elements some of them were a bit too difficult to use than they should have been. I mean outside of the occasional scripted need for gadgets when they popped up here and there(like the almost useless robotic dog thing in that one level) I pretty much relied on a very small arsenal, chucking quarters being the most useful tool.

[voltaic]

I stopped playing NOLF 1 on the first (I believe) camera level where you are in the office and once the secretary leaves her desk, you are supposed to walk around and do stuff. I had moved it down to the easiest level. I had followed every walkthrough. I tried every possible speed, crouching and jumping, etc. I could, and I could not walk past the first two cameras on that level (one on the left path, one on the right). The very first two! Uninstall, move along.

[wumpus]

What? Sacrilege! Everyone knows NOLF was Game Of The Year 2000!

[Case]

It isn't a perfect game, but seems to have that delicate balance between style and gameplay that makes it a great game. It has great atmosphere, the AI is adequate, if not fabulous, and the missions are sheer fun.

Can you tell I like it? :D

I thought the ending of the prelude was just fabulous. The game also
seems to have the humor of the original, but takes itself a tad
more seriously -- all to the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Looking forward to multiplayer on this one, too.

Cheers,

Loyd Case

[mtkafka]

I played NOLF 1 without much probelms on the stealth levels. They aren't that hard imo. You do know you could have just got a level skip or kill all enemies cheat or something.

BTW, NOLF 2 really is a Thief game underneath. Probably the best combination of pure shooter with stealth gameplay out. Surely beats Deus Ex. I'm playing on Superspy (OHIO LEVEL WAS HELL! Cool opening map, like haunted house!), and the stealth elements are close to as good as Thief... and in some cases the NOLF 2 AI IS better because it interacts with the environment. With the alarms and guards (on Siberian levels), reminds me of SS2 respawning... some are hating this... but I like it, it forces the player to move and hide instead of sit in the dark camping your ass safely.

BTW2 I love putting the guards to sleep then taking there stuff, and then when they wake up they cry about it! The game has all these funny little details! Or like the Indian cops running out of breath! Games great!

etc

[Jason Lutes]

In another section a guard spotted me and ran after me. I ran into a building, turned off the light, then ran into another room and turned off the light. He came into the first room, looked around for a second, called me a slippery capatilist and then left even though he clearly saw me run into the room. Perhaps the difficulty level had something to do with it (I'm playing on the default.

Also, for each progressive level of Stealth skill that you buy, you can shake your pursuers more quickly.

The attention to detail in this game is outstanding. I agree that the first part of the Akron level is completely amazing in its atmosphere. At first, it's like a creepy haunted house, and then the more you find out about "Tom Goodman," the more kind of sad and pathetic and hilarious it is. I burst out laughing and just shook my head in admiration for the designers when I noticed what "Tom" had rigged up as the door to his secret spy den.

I can't believe how many times I've laughed out loud in the course of playing. The writing is top-notch. All of the little inter-evil-office memos are a riot, and there are some truly inspired set piece throwaway comedy bits.

Yeah, I can see some people getting pissed about the infinite guard patrols, but I agree that they use it judiciously, to propel you along and keep you on your toes. I just finished the first mime level, and so far I think the Siberia level is the only one that's used respawning patrols, though I suspect there'll be more of them up ahead...

[Jason Cross]

NOLF2 has lots of tiny little flaws or quirks you'll eventually uncover, mostly becuase the rest of the game is so flawless that they stand out by comparison. I'll see lots of threads on message boards for players that totally love the game, but then have a bunch of little nags - nags they wouldn't even bother to bring up in other games, because they've got bigger problems. =)

Multiplayer is...well..."a mixed bag." The problem is that every server is just someone hosting a game they're playing. So this server has to handle running their game AND all the network stuff, unlike a dedicated server. The result is that the first several games I joined had very poor network performance even though they're just 4-player games on a good DSL connection (shouldn't be too tough). Movement was smooth, but accuracy was poor and things like door opening and searching were delayed and jumpy. Turns out that they just didn't have a beefy enough computer to handle it. I played last night on a server and it was really quite smooth and responsive - about as good as Counterstrike.

When it works, it's really quite fun. It's fun to fight guards that are a lot tougher, becuase it gives more time for the enemy AI to work before the guy drops and the pitched battles are neat. You've got to use cover a lot more, go for headshots, toss grenades - stuff that isn't as important in single-player. It's also pretty crucial that everyone try to be stealthy and disable cameras, hide bodies, make little noise, etc. Just a few alarms set off per level really put a hurt on the whole UNITY team. There's not enough ammo and items to deal with it and the guards get tougher the more players are in the game, so they can cut you down pretty good.

I tried the multiplayer just by hosting my own LAN game and playing by myself and didn't think it was that special. Playing with three others, it's really more entertaining than I thought - when you get on a good server.

Which is the other problem: since servers are only there when the host is actually playing, there are very few online games to choose from. VERY few.

I was pissed about the crappy net code until that game I found last night. Now I'm at least a little hopeful it'll be quite good when they release the dedicated server and DM/team mods.

[wumpus]

Well, I finally got the full retail NOLF2. So far so good. It's everything the original should have been, and unlike the original, it's a legitimate candidate for action game of the year.

I still don't like the inclusion of the snowmobile, though.

[Alan Dunkin]

If someone has a beefy or dedicated system to host some coop multiplayer deals I'd like to participate in it.

--- Alan

[Miramon]

Well it is a technically amazing game. The guard behavior, when it works, is very nice to see, and it's wonderful to play a game which was designed by someone with intelligence and humor. In comparison, a dull game like NWN (solo campaign) has less than 1% of the intelligence of just one of NOLF 2's overheard guard dialogues.

However....

The game is kind of difficult in places, isn't it? Parts of that Soviet base scenario are like playing Frogger with the screen turned off in that there are these guards you can't see whose lines of sight you have to discover by trial and error, and whose movement patterns you can't see all at once. I had to do an awful lot of reloading in that mission.

So far I've only tried to play through the Akron ninja onslaught once, but it seemed like it would be quite a challenge even on easy level. There are way too many ninjas for my ammunition, I don't have enough armor, and they are dancing around throwing shuriken at range so I can't just run after them with a katana. By the time I stumbled randomly from the outside-the-house area into the ninja-mayhem-in-the-backyard area, I didn't have enough resources to last more than a few seconds. I guess if I optimize to run for the mayhem area I might eventually get through it, but it seems to be a serious challenge.

Still, difficulty aside (I'm not really a FPS afficionado so I'm not really great at the head-shot motor skill that the game rewards) it really is an impressive game. If it gets much more tough I might either quit or cheat through some parts, though.... and I'd hate to have to do either of those things.

[Wholly Schmidt]

I've just been playing through the levels in India and hit another disappointment. Several reviews I've seen have pointed out that there aren't any missions that you fail immediately if the guards see you like in the first game. What they omitted was that there's at least one mission where you're restarted at a certain point if the guards spot you. What's the practical difference between having your progress reset and having to restart a mission when the guards see you? It's the same frustration. I enjoy the game enough to put up with this trial and error section, I just feel some of the reviews misrepresented how new and improved NOLF 2 is.

[Jaysun]

Well, I finished the game last night and while I enjoyed it, I don't think it was as good as the first one. It just doesn't have the same character the first one had. Also, the story seems lacking in parts, like they needed to keep it simpler than it should have been. I expected more investigative work; more espionage, but it more of a race then anything else. It seemed rushed to me. Anyway, just my thoughts. I still had fun playing it, but I doubt I'll play it again.

[wumpus]

Jaysun, you're high. It's SO much better than the first game in every respect. It's not the best. game. ever. for me, but I find myself voluntarily coming back to play it-- something I can't say about NOLF1, with its incredibly frustrating half-complete stealth elements, alarms that sound FOR THE ENTIRE LEVEL, and its smorgasboard of useless novelty gadgets.

Except.. for that god damned snowmobile. This is the first game that makes the Operation Flashpoint vehicle controls look good.

[wumpus]

The game is kind of difficult in places, isn't it? Parts of that Soviet base scenario are like playing Frogger with the screen turned off in that there are these guards you can't see whose lines of sight you have to discover by trial and error, and whose movement patterns you can't see all at once. I had to do an awful lot of reloading in that mission.
I could do my Dave Long impression for you! Here goes: you're a pussy. Games should be HARD. And if you don't like it, too goddamn bad. Stop playing and move out of the way so the real men can get some time in.

Okay, back to reality.

While I appreciate the stealth, and I do use it occasionally, 99% of the time I find that it's a LOT more efficient to just blast your way through. At least on the "normal" difficulty I'm playing on, there's a liberal sprinkling of armor and health-- more than I can use, really. Avoidance works, but requires a lot of sitting quietly and observing and .. zzzzz damn I fell asleep again. I generally use a more proactive stealth apporach of tranquilizing guards, but then they just wake up and sound the alarm later. I found myself tranquilizing (or shocking) guards, then putting a .32 caliber bullet in their head so I didn't have to deal with the consequences later. That's kinda sick. I figure killing them outright is less.. creepy.

Anyway, the gun battles aren't terribly difficult. Just find something to lean out from behind or crouch down under, and take your shots.

So far I've only tried to play through the Akron ninja onslaught once, but it seemed like it would be quite a challenge even on easy level. There are way too many ninjas for my ammunition, I don't have enough armor, and they are dancing around throwing shuriken at range so I can't just run after them with a katana. By the time I stumbled randomly from the outside-the-house area into the ninja-mayhem-in-the-backyard area, I didn't have enough resources to last more than a few seconds. I guess if I optimize to run for the mayhem area I might eventually get through it, but it seems to be a serious challenge.
Man that was a fun section. Great design, too-- you spend a lot of time in an empty house, exploring, building up tension, then WHAM. And you get caught with very little ammo and only two weapons.

The key to this section is finding the shotgun and armor after you leave the house (it's in a nearby shed). There is also another shed (actually two of them) behind the houses in the street. Make sure you quicksave, then run around until you find it, and go from shed to shed until you find the exit to the boss battle.

You can use the same approach in the next prelude to the boss battle; keep running from ammo -> armor -> ammo while fighting. Once you're fighting the ninja chick, there are two armor sets in the small mobile home.. fairly obvious. Get them when your armor is low; don't waste them early.

[Jason Cross]

The game is kind of difficult in places, isn't it? Parts of that Soviet base scenario are like playing Frogger with the screen turned off in that there are these guards you can't see whose lines of sight you have to discover by trial and error, and whose movement patterns you can't see all at once. I had to do an awful lot of reloading in that mission.


It's no accident that Siberia is the first place you get those tracking darts for your utility launcher. Fire them and the guards show up on your radar.

You really gotta use your ears, too. If guards are hard to hear unless you're right on top of them, try disabling hardware sound in the launcher: weird sound mixing (and missing background sounds) is one symptom of buggy sound in this game that you might not notice.

As for the backyard ninjas in Akron: by the time I got there, they were pretty easy. I guess it might have to do with where you put your points. Adding points to search is really handy, because you don't just search faster, you find more useful stuff. I ran out of ammo a lot less when I pumped up Search and raised Carrying a little (to increase max ammo limit). Those ninjas WILL keep coming forever on that level, I think, so you're best off just killing and moving until you get to the exit.

And go for headshots, they do a lot more damage.

[Anonymous]

I put all my points into stealth, endurance/health, and armor. I had about 4000 points banked before the boss battle so I put 2 levels into weapons for the additional damage bonus.

Search seems like a waste of good skill points to me..

[Jason Cross]

Search seems like a waste of good skill points to me..

It's not entirely. If it only sped searching up it would be. But you'll find additional ammo, armor pads, and bandages on enemies if you crank up your search. Even ammo types for weapons other than what that guy was using (like .38 ammo on a guy using an AK-47), and special ammo types like explosive rounds and whatnot. Not to mention various types of grenades.

Putting points into search is the best way to stay well-equipped. I concentrated on it and became the Master of Searching in no-time. 1000% bonus to Thoroughness is nothing to sneeze at. I never ran out of ammo for anything, always had a camera disabler when I needed one, you name it.

But that's one of the joys of the game. That's the way I enjoyed to play. If you enjoy boosting health and weapon damage, you've got that option. :)

[Jason Becker]

I have a question about the co-op multiplayer part. Basically has anybody tried it yet and if so is it any good?

[Supertanker]

I've tried a couple of the missions. The mime mission was fun and challenging. The Supercomputer mission was impossible and we gave up after about 100 deaths. They need to let you respawn with your equipment - having to walk back from the spawn is punishment enough - and/or let you be revived with more health and armor. The groups of super guards get a little tiresome - one time I was hit with four grenades simultaneously while being riddled with AK47 fire. Ouch.

[Raife]

I just finished NOLF2 (about an hour ago), and it was entertaining right up through the end credits. Excellent game, oozing with style and attention to detail. You can tell they loved making it.

The story is fun, and the cutscenes were always interesting or humorous; often both. I had many 'laugh out loud' moments in this game, probably more than any other game I've played. Though some areas were tough, I rarely got frustrated. I was very glad I did *not* buy the $20 hint book.

On stats, I finished with five dots in Stealth, Marksmanship, and Weapons, four in Armor, three in Stamina, Carrying, and Gadgets, and one in Search.

I was happy with how I spent my points, and would recommend the following to anyone starting out:

-- Carrying to three (mainly for the Utility Launcher and RFA .308, though 300+ machinegun rounds is nice, too). Fast body movement is also a plus.

-- Weapons to as high as you want to go. Reload times are nearly as important as damage on this one.

-- Armor to three, if not higher. I mainly needed this for the boss fights, but there are also certain levels where you're going to take a lot of fire and there's not much you can do about it. I would say three is the minimum here.

I took Marksmanship up mainly because I figured a good spy ought to at least have Marksmanship on par (if not above) Weapons. The benefits of Marksmanship are hard to really judge when your playing (though reduced zoomed-in crosshair swimming [none at level five] is obvious). I certainly got better at hitting targets, and racked up the headshots, but judging how much was Marksmanship and how much was myself improving is a tough call. I was charging enemies and walking rounds from their torso up to their heads by endgame.

Stealth seemed an obvious pick for the amount of infiltration you do, so I kept this even with Marksmanship. The benefits are very obvious while playing, too. Fast hide is great when you actually have hiding spots/lightbulbs/light switches available. You don't always have that luxury, however. Stealthy movement means you can get close enough to put a bullet/bolt in their head without them noticing you. Stealthy running is nice when you have a lot of ground to cover. Losing pursuers can come in handy, especially on certain levels where you have to avoid, rather than shoot opponents. I found myself doing more running and gunning than trying to escape regular enemies, so this benefit was only handy in certain situations. The manual mentions that the detection radius for other misc. actions are reduced, and this did seem to be the case, but that's another tough one to judge.

Stamina is an odd one. I rarely had anything get past my armor, so high health isn't crucial. There are certain types of damage that will bypass armor (like fire), though, so at least some points here could help. Toughness seems like a great benefit, but I was never sure if that counted for hits on armor as well as health. Regardless, I did fine at three.

Gadgets I took up because a spy without gadget skills isn't much of a spy, but you really could get by without increasing this one at all. There are a few times it would come in handy (including picking locks while being chased), and what spy movie would be complete without defusing a bomb or two? Ultimitely, you probably don't need it, though.

On Search I have to disagree with Jason, though. The game is very liberal about giving out ammo/armor, and I don't think I ever really wanted for either. This may change with difficulty (I played on Normal), but I was glad I put my points elsewhere. There is an overabundance of equipment available if you look around for it.

[wumpus]

In general, this is an excellent game, but some of the missions are annoying as hell.

Right now I'm stuck on the underwater supercomputer deal. I have to go FIND A REQUISITION FORM? Jesus. And I'm totally stuck. I've spent about a half hour running around this goddamn level looking for that form and all I can find is a few doors that require a keycard or decoder, but I have neither. I've killed all the guards and robots about fifty times over in the process. Whee!

A few missions prior to this, I had to find a bucket and put out fires while avoiding invulnerable enemies who packed a major wallop. What a pain.

Then, there was the defend the HQ mission. It took ANOTHER 30 minutes of aimlessly running around the level before I could manage to trigger the last few mimes to appear so I could complete the "stop the invasion" mission objective.

I was not terribly fond of the "remove all the wanted posters" mission either. You can't fight back, and you have to ghost the police to see where they slap up the posters.

I appreciate the concept of mixing up the gameplay a bit in different missions, but some of this is more tedious than fun. I feel like I'm being forced to jump through arbitrary hoops.

[wumpus]

Correction. It probably wasn't 30 minutes. More like 10 minutes that felt like 30, because there was nothing to do but run around the (at this point, empty) level and find the macguffin I was looking for.

[mtkafka]

You can find the v2.0 manual? on a guy in the bathroom AFTER you get the v1.0 manual by getting the key to a locked room from the computer in the hallway. I was stuck a bit on this level too. You havfe to trigger the responses from the compouters to do this. Its a lot of back and forth moving.

and I HATED that put the fire out level (worst map in the game!)... and my biggest peeve is the lack of weapon choices compared to NOLF 1 and then the 'quick'load times not being very quick. I average 30 - 50 seconds per quickload... i dont know if its my pc or not... but the NOLF 2 demo didn't QL longer than 10 seconds... maybe bigger levels... just very annoying considering I played on Superspy and had to quickload every onceinawhile.

Would be cool if they transfered the NOLF 2 AI to NOLF 1... if it was possible... though I doubt it... but I can dream dammit!

etc

[T Elhajj]

My quick loads take about the same amount of time. It is annoying.

[Jason McCullough]

They take about 5 seconds on *my* machine. The water speeds it up!

[wumpus]

Finished. NOLF2 goes out with a whimper instead of a bang. The more I played, the less I liked the game. For two reasons.

First, because the proportion of annoying puzzle/item hunt missions is definitely skewed towards the end of the game (see my earlier post on this).

Second, because the game isn't very challenging. The combat sometimes feels like an afterthought. Here are some examples:

Those robots you'll encounter-- they are invulnerable to small arms fire (which I found out via a memo in a desk), but you are provided with an astronomical number of electrical charges to take them out. So whenever you encounter them, you merely switch to electrical ammo (which you always seem to have), zap them once, and they explode. Challenging! Why include them at all? The supersoldiers are sort of the same way. Once you get the ASSS ammo (chuckle), it's only marginally more interesting than the robots. Shoot them a few times until they start smoking, switch to the utility weapons, then zap. Buh bye.

But it's not just the special enemies. The garden variety enemy AI is good enough with crazy quips, stealth responses, navigating the level, and ambient behavior, but they aren't particularly good at COMBAT. Generally they blast away at you and even run right towards you. No use of grenades. No significant use of cover or ducking. Sure, they call for help, big whoop. Now you get to kill three ducks lined up in a row instead of one. Sometimes I'd intentionally set off the alarms to trigger more things to kill, BECAUSE I WAS BORED. That's bad! Profoundly bad!

This, combined with my RPG-ish buildup of health and armor (both were maxed by the end of the game), killing the enemies became almost.. well, tedious rather than thrilling. At that point, you're left with little more than a myst-like game of exploration and fetching the red, blue, and yellow keys in various forms.

Maybe I'd be less ambivalent about NOLF2 if I played it more as a pure stealth shooter, but I don't have that kind of time to dedicate to a game.

[Jason Lutes]

Dare I ask at what difficulty you played, wumpy?

[Supertanker]

I'm seeing plenty of grenades at the higher difficulty levels. Accurate, too. Makes the long load times that much more annoying.

[wumpus]

I played on normal difficulty. Just to test this hypothesis, I played the last mission, by itself, on Superspy difficulty. I changed the difficulty level as soon as the level loaded via the in-game menus.

It's definitely more challenging with only 50 health and 50 armor (!!)compared to the 150/150 I had by the end of the game. Not to mention the damage and weapon bonuses I had.. but that's a side effect of the RPG skill building elements; the actual enemy AI seems unchanged; it's as easy as ever to dispatch the supersoldiers and the guys with the SMGs. I'm certainly not seeing any grenades. I have to be a lot more careful to avoid getting hit because of my low HP and armor, but it's not exactly challenging-- just slower paced. The armor and ammo drops in the level didn't change either; they're all in the same places.

[wumpus]

And if you have some kind of beef with me reviewing this game based on the normal difficulty, I refer you to Steve Bauman, who REVIEWS EVERY GAME ON THE EASY SETTING.

At least "normal" is a defensible choice-- it's supposed to be what the majority of the people playing the game select, and the it should be the default difficulty that the game is designed and tested for.

[TomChick]

Wumpus' description of the AI certainly doesn't match what we were seeing in multiplayer, where the difficulty level shifts with the number of players joined.

(Note that I haven't tried the single player game).

-Tom

[wumpus]

Also in co-op you start with minimal stats. Refer to previous statements on RPG skill buildup.

[T Elhajj]

They take about 5 seconds on *my* machine. The water speeds it up!

Time to get out the garden hose and rig something up!

[Jason Lutes]

And if you have some kind of beef with me reviewing this game based on the normal difficulty, I refer you to Steve Bauman, who REVIEWS EVERY GAME ON THE EASY SETTING.

Whoa. No "beef" at all, just wanted to know where you're coming from. I always start a game on normal and scale it up or down depending on how hard of a time I'm having, but some people review games and complain about how easy it is without upping the difficulty level to see if it changes things. It's a challenge for the developers of a game like NOLF, since they've got to try and accomodate a range of players from the casual consumer to the hardcore FPS gamer. I take it from your followup that you think they failed the challenge. Okay.

I agree with a lot of the things you mentioned. Especially about the rpg elements overbalancing as the game progresses; a high Stealth rating really limits the AI's ability to pursue, which can make it seem dumber than it actually is.

I would have liked more open-ended, "environment-based" levels, because those parts of the game were the most satisfying and exhilirating for me. I loved all of the Siberia missions, because they had a real sense of possibility and "anything can happen" about them, and played out very differently each time. Plus I love the drunken pilot.

In the end, for me, the thing I appreciate most is the variety the game offers. From the stealth/action mix of the Siberian missions to the crazy Akron trailer park to the spooky and even poignant Arctic level, I don't know of any other shooter with this kind of range. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that that it doesn't all come together perfectly.

[wumpus]

In the end, for me, the thing I appreciate most is the variety the game offers. From the stealth/action mix of the Siberian missions to the crazy Akron trailer park to the spooky and even poignant Arctic level, I don't know of any other shooter with this kind of range.
I agree with you. I was really enjoying the game until right around that Arctic level-- which was one of the best in the game. I also found it strangely moving and extremely effective. I'd say it was the high point of the game for me. The trailer park shootout was PLENTY difficult on normal, and also very exciting.

Unfortunately it was kinda all downhill from there. The difficulty just disappeared (unbalanced RPG stats levelling?) and the levels got more annoying (put out these fires).

Replaying the last level with only 50 health and 50 armor is more difficult (obviously, I hope, compared to 150/150), but I swear I am not seeing any difference between superspy and normal in terms of the AI behaviors. I tried entering the level a couple of different ways-- setting the difficulty to superspy at the main menu, then selecting single mission.. starting the mission, then changing the difficulty via the in-game menu.. etc. I can't make it happen. The enemies big weakness is that they all charge you sooner or later, so just leaning around a corner and waiting for it to happen will guarantee victory with minimal risk.

[Raife]

Some interesting opinions, glad to see I completely disagree with wumpus on yet another issue.

I found NOLF2 to be plenty challeging. You're supposed to be a spy, after all. I had loads of fun dodging enemies, hiding bodies, and ducking cameras.

The boss fights varied in difficulty, but I had a blast in them and they had character. Heck, the whole game had character. A few specific squences were extremely tough (the mime escape, the ninja death run). Overall, I thought the difficulty balance was good.

Don't have that kind of time to dedicate to a game? What the hell does that even mean? Must... finish... pendulum... swinging... closer...

I found the AI very effective at combat (including use of cover and fire and movement). Jason is right, though, high Stealth can make escaping almost comically easy, but hey, you are a superspy. Much of the game is comical, really, a bananna? Heck, read the memos.

I think played from the viewpoint of a 60's spy movie spoof, it's brilliant. Played expecting some kind of Quake bot challenge may leave you wanting tougher direct combat. I thought it was fine, and would rate NOLF2 as one of the most enjoyable games I've played this year.

[Jason Becker]

Having finished it now its one of the best I've played this year.


With this games, NOLF, and AVP2, Monolith has come along way from their Shogo/Blood 2 days.

[Miramon]

I'm on chapter 15 and hope to finish it today.

I found the game growing considerably better as it progressed. I've found that I don't really like the onslaught/boss levels like the ninja attack in Akron or that idiotic whack-em game with the mime boss (guess I better not play Serious Sam, eh.) I also found the sneak through the Indian HQ to get employment to be hugely annoying for some reason, though I don't think anyone else has complained about it. I'm not a big FPS fan, so I don't have the motor skills trained for snap-shot mouse-based head targeting, which obviously makes a big difference in the more frenetic fights. But I like sneaking around on those levels in which you get the sense that you are in control of the situation as opposed to being a hunted rat in the middle of infinite swarming guards.

After being initially stymied by that Akron ninja attack level, my game improved after I restarted and switched much of my stealth orientation to combat. Though I like the stealth part of the game, I found that Cate's actual stealth skill doesn't seem to matter all that much so long as the enemies don't detect her in the first place, whereas weapons, armor, and searching clearly all made a big difference to gameplay.

I think my favorite level so far is the Unity HQ mission (the level has wonderful design in the sense of evoking 60s public architecture.)

[Doug Erickson]

Someone buy wumpus a Playstation 2 - it's full of great twitch games. Timesplitters 2 should be right up his alley.

[wumpus]

Yeah, FPS games with a gamepad. You can count me right the hell out of that.

I hope NOLF2 isn't becoming another Sacrifice-esque sacred cow around here. There are things I liked a lot about the game, and it directly addresses many flaws in the original-- but they should have left that RPG skill building stuff out. How else can you explain how challenging fighting the ninjas in Akron was, while the endgame is pathetically easy, to the point of boredom? The difficulty is seriously out of whack, and it's directly attributable to the skill points.

Anyway, games should get better, not more annoying, as they go along. It's hard to tolerate the putting out of fires and the collecting of wanted posters as valid gameplay models. I'd rate the first half of NOLF2 a 9/10, and the last half a 6/10.

[AIM]

Wumpus..

i've noticed that you don't like many games. Are you a jaded gamer?

[wumpus]

Just yesterday someone on a mailing list I subscribed to complained how difficult the Akron ninja fight was on "hard" difficulty; he said he was switching to "normal". Now he's got a whole different set of problems. I guess you should stay on normal until that halfway point, then switch to hard. Still-- it's bad design.

[Jim Hoffman]

Anybody else having slowdown problems?
I'm on the Akron level, and when several ninjas come out, it slows down to 1 fps! Any ideas?
AThlon 800
Geforce 3
640 megs RAM
WIn 98

[Miramon]

I didn't fall to 1 FPS. But the ninja attack in Akron did slow down my machine. Poor thing is calculating all those tornado particles, then clipping them all cause they're behind me, then calculating pathing for a jillion ninjas it is materializing in front of me, then doing all the particles for the smoke they leave when they die.... The graphics test the system does of that scene (which shows the developers understood it was the most demanding) probably doesn't take into account the stress of combat, all the interrupts and crap for user activity, and enemy AI.

Anyhow, I finished NOLF 2 last night. Sure, the end game is easier than the ninja attack or some other bits of the game. Big deal. I thought it was fun and satisfying to play, and also humorous, intelligent, and even touching ("Abigail... Abigail....") I was expecting some prolonged and agonizing boss fight with some infinitely long boss health bar I would slowly have to chip away. Thank god there was no such thing. The fights with the Mime boss and with Dmitri are bad enough; IMO the final fight from NOLF 1 was just painful, and I'm happy that the final fight in NOLF 2 was more conventional. That being said, the final level was indeed a bit too easy, but it really didn't detract all that much from the game for me.

[xahlt]

I thought it was a little short.

[Tom Ohle]

I'm still just in the Siberia level, just trying to get into the main records building. I'm finding it fairly challenging--but only because I refuse to use any noisy weapons. I'm out of regular ammo for the .32 handgun (only 4 cyanide bullets left), so I'm pretty much just sneaking around. If I get spotted, I re-load my last save. I think Ill probably end up just blasting my way through this level, though, as the alarms always seem to go off (while I tranquilize one guy, someone behind me sees me). I mean, I'm a spy, damnit... I should have more ammo. And more silenced weapons. I love the game, though--best one I've played in a couple years.

[Rywill]

IMO the final fight from NOLF 1 was just painful, and I'm happy that the final fight in NOLF 2 was more conventional. That being said, the final level was indeed a bit too easy, but it really didn't detract all that much from the game for me.

I found the final boss in NOLF1 pretty easy. The Scottish guy was much harder. Even the Viking chick was harder.

[Miramon]

You're right, when I consider it, the final fight in NOLF 1 wasn't actually all that hard; as you say a few of the other bosses were tougher. It's just that it went on forever, and as a game experience was just excruciating, all that dodging and pecking away at his ridiculous health bar. That kind of thing doesn't thrill me in a game in which otherwise a single accurate shot can kill. I realize this is just a fun and not terribly realistic game, but I want to be able to shoot someone with a gun and have the fall down, not have to shoot them a hundred times and watch their health bar gradually diminish as I dodge their programmed dancing-back-and-forth moves....

In contrast, while there were unfortunately a few huge-health-bar bosses in NOLF 2, at least I could put the final guy away in a few shots with explosive (!!!) rounds of combat shotgun ammo...

[Jason Becker]

The scott guy was definatly the toughest in NOLF 1. The Viking chick was easy after finding out how you got her.

[Erik Andersson]

The scott guy was definatly the toughest in NOLF 1. The Viking chick was easy after finding out how you got her.

Actually I thought the scott guy was the easiest boss. You could defeat him on "superspy" without taking any (or just a little) damage.

[Dave Perkins]

I just got NOLF2, and am on the starting level. There are ninja ladies. Is there any point in trying to merely stun them? Does it give me any bonuses? Or should I only worry about stealth on levels which have stealth as part of the objective?

I mean, I like being stealthy, even if it's not required. But I just wanna know that if I have to keel one of them ladies, it won't cost me some kind of hidden bonus or reward.

- Dave

p.s. I haven't read the manual yet, so if the answer is in there, please feel free to use the following form:

[ ] Hey Dave, you're an ass

[Rywill]

Being stealthy is beneficial. Many guards, when they spot you, will run and sound an alarm that summons new guards -- ones that you would never see or have to fight if the alarm never went off. So, stealth is good because it lets you take someone out before they know you're there, which prevents them from sounding the alarm. It also lets you take them out one at a time, instead of being ganged up on (and in this game, some of the guards will flank you, so fighting 2-3 people can be really hard. At least for me).

Also, some levels feature Magical Endless Guards, so killing them is mostly pointless and you're better off being stealthy.

In some levels -- such as the one you're playing now -- you can more easily complete your objectives if you keep the guards alive. As the mission goes on, you will be told to find the location of a secret meeting. You can complete that by eavesdropping on the guards. If you kill them all, you have to find and decode a note that gives the meeting location.

I generally avoid merely stunning/tranqing the guards. I mean, I use the tranq and stun weapons all the time, but once the guard is sleeping or stunned I walk up and put a bullet behind his ear. Otherwise, there's too much chance that the guard will sound the alarm, or find another weapon, after he recovers. Grisly, but there you go.

You can also play the game as a run-n-gun thing, though. Either approach seems to work okay, and they both have advantages and disadvantages.

[Anonymous]

You don't really get rewarded for playing 'smart' stealthy; or rather going non-lethal versus becoming death incarnate and killing anything and everything from the shadows.

Having recently finished the game myself, this was one of my greatest dissapointments overall. With such a wonderfully executed and highly approachable stealth system, I was really dissapointed how Monolith didn't really push it to any real great lengths. I mean finally we can sneak nearly as easilly as we can just go running and gunning without having to resort to the quicksave syndrome(I hardly ever relied on it while playing through the game, kudos again to Monolith's talents for giving us a gameplay model that doesn't have us mashing Quickload every time something goes awry in our precise planning. One of the reasons I usually can't enjoy Stealth-based FPS games(I won't name game titles as to keep the focus on NOLF in this discussion) is due to the perfection the gamer usually must undergo just to slip by even the most basic of foes or traps without detection. Too much reliance is put on the quicksave system before most any potentially risky maneuvering, and usually you need a few loads to make any real progress at being sneaky whereas the run and gun becomes the easy way out.

NOLF 2 just succeeds in making such a highly approachable stealth system that it is disheartening that the area designs just didn't lend themselves all that well to the system. Well, let me restate: it's not that the general layouts are all bad, many of them were great, but you never really feel your skills are tested to the limits. Nor does the game ever really throw anything all that crazy at you, pretty much the bulk of the game consisted of sniping a lone inept guard or two around this corner or that as they are rummaging through cabinets, enjoying a cigarrette or just wandering back and forth alone...like dopes. Spend the trouble sneaking up these lone oblivious fools and you can expect a silly respawned foe to appear in an adjacent area real soon(at least in the more freeform levels). Meh...

Unlike in Nolf 1 where you are often being charged with taking on massive obstacle laden courses filled with camera security and multiple patrolling guards at several key placed locations relying on some quick planning and in some cases quick reflexes, NOLF 2 just kinda strings you along from one basic encounter to the next...that is until alarms sound off(At least this time you have a chance of survival when that happens!) It is really just too bad how most of the gadgets pretty much took the bench seat for the entire game as well as security cameras becoming a complete non-issue for pretty much the entire experience. Whereas distracting and manipulating guard movements with the use of coins or other tricks to create a healthy path through the MGS-esque course layouts in NOLF 1 was typical, in NOLF 2 there just is hardly ever much of a threat in your path that would require such smart planning. Whereas the game had a great start with the Japan and Siberia levels, things just fall apart and climax with utter dissapointment once I had reached the Underwater base. Outside of the few scripted levels that limit your abilities such as the various India scenes or Antarctica(which were also norm for NOLF1 occasionally) NOLF 2 just didn't feel as satisfying through progression.

That's not to say it wasn't enjoyable, the inherent gameplay model was crafted with great care and designed for ease in playability, but where NOLF 1 succeeded with smart level layouts to counter the somewhat broken gameplay mechanics, NOLF 2 just falters in many ways. I draw more memories looking back at NOLF 2 sifting through file cabinets and opening draweres moreso than I do the challenges presented to me as I recall so many of in NOLF 1.

While it's really hard to consider NOLF 1 a better overall product considering the upgrades made to the playability and framework, it's just as difficult for me to call NOLF 2 a better designed game.

[Anonymous]

About the time the underwater base rolled around, I was ready to dump the stealth and be death incarnate, so what Guest above perceives as a weakness worked for me. I like that it allowed both styles of play, didn't penalize one over the other, and ultimately wasn't that hard to go either way. That I think is a sign of good design, and since the levels had to accomadate both, I think they made some concessions. But I think it makes it a better game for more people, or maybe it'll just alienate both the action and stealth fans. I dunno. I prefer to dabble with stealth, sneak around a bit, and sometimes just blow shit up.

I mean, NOLF2 is no Sniper, that's for sure. Man Handler, psh. In Sniper, I shot a bus AND IT BLED. Think NOLF2 has that? No way.

[Anonymous]

Good point actually. NOLF 2 did give the gamer near equal opportunity to just become a killing machine and 'blow shit up'. I myself pretty much ended up blasting through many of the later areas like the Underwater base, taking precautions until I knew what enemy I would be facing and then unleashing hell before they had the opportunity to react.

However, where stealth IS concerned, lies my disapointment. It just pales in comparison to the tasks and layouts of NOLF 1 is all I am saying. I really miss the dynamic that game had in your approach to sneaking through necessary evils.

[wumpus]

Eventually every thread is about Sniper. In fact, I'm going to go play it right now.

[Anonymous]

Eventually every thread is about Sniper. In fact, I'm going to go play it right now.
Too bad it has no multiplayer. Its level of suck would be off the charts.

Bring on Mortyr 2!

[Anonymous]

I myself pretty much ended up blasting through many of the later areas like the Underwater base, taking precautions until I knew what enemy I would be facing and then unleashing hell before they had the opportunity to react.
This is how I prefer to play, since I get the gratification of both approaches. Stealth kills are best of all. (I like tactical shooters as well, and you often play them this way as well.)

However, where stealth IS concerned, lies my disapointment. It just pales in comparison to the tasks and layouts of NOLF 1 is all I am saying. I really miss the dynamic that game had in your approach to sneaking through necessary evils.
I guess the ideal would be the improved stealth mechanics of NOLF2 with some of the more elaborate scenarios in NOLF1, though the latter was too unforgiving.... I would actually agree that I missed the cameras, which never bugged me in the first game. Having more cameras, with the ability to stealth kill and carry bodies away, could have been used more frequently. After Siberia, the only cameras you ever saw again, for the most part, were on the underwater base. And those were easy to deal with.

[Anonymous]

We're understanding each other nicely.

I don't think I ever really bothered disposing of bodies after the inital Japan levels. Why would I need to? Especially since I can expect certain levels to just respawn enemies anyway, why should I even go to the trouble? (Besides, dead bodies were like booby traps for respawned guards anyway)

There was rarely a situation that cropped up in which one would find the need to expel such effort. It was nice that they gave you that as option, but really in the end this was just one of many elements of NOLF 2 that ended up feeling like a wasted gimmick. Given the scenario of NOLF 1 however as you state, it would have been quite interesting utilizing this upgraded system to better potential. Kinda frustrating we'll never get to experience it, or rather I suppose 'I' won't be able to, being that many fans may not give two shits and will just enjoy these rather utilitarian FPS levels.

So close Monolith, oh so very close... Hopefully in NOLF 3: Arena? :P

[Anonymous]

We're understanding each other nicely.

I don't think I ever really bothered disposing of bodies after the inital Japan levels. Why would I need to? Especially since I can expect certain levels to just respawn enemies anyway, why should I even go to the trouble? (Besides, dead bodies were like booby traps for respawned guards anyway)

There was rarely a situation that cropped up in which one would find the need to expel such effort. It was nice that they gave you that as option, but really in the end this was just one of many elements of NOLF 2 that ended up feeling like a wasted gimmick. Given the scenario of NOLF 1 however as you state, it would have been quite interesting utilizing this upgraded system to better potential. Kinda frustrating we'll never get to experience it, or rather I suppose 'I' won't be able to, being that many fans may not give two shits and will just enjoy these rather utilitarian FPS levels.

So close Monolith, oh so very close... Hopefully in NOLF 3: Arena? :P

[Dave Perkins]

I just got NOLF2, and am on the starting level. There are ninja ladies. Is there any point in trying to merely stun them? Does it give me any bonuses? Or should I only worry about stealth on levels which have stealth as part of the objective?

I mean, I like being stealthy, even if it's not required. But I just wanna know that if I have to keel one of them ladies, it won't cost me some kind of hidden bonus or reward.


Being stealthy is beneficial. Many guards, when they spot you, will run and sound an alarm that summons new guards -- ones that you would never see or have to fight if the alarm never went off. So, stealth is good because it lets you take someone out before they know you're there, which prevents them from sounding the alarm. It also lets you take them out one at a time, instead of being ganged up on (and in this game, some of the guards will flank you, so fighting 2-3 people can be really hard. At least for me).

Also, some levels feature Magical Endless Guards, so killing them is mostly pointless and you're better off being stealthy.

In some levels -- such as the one you're playing now -- you can more easily complete your objectives if you keep the guards alive. As the mission goes on, you will be told to find the location of a secret meeting. You can complete that by eavesdropping on the guards. If you kill them all, you have to find and decode a note that gives the meeting location.

I generally avoid merely stunning/tranqing the guards. I mean, I use the tranq and stun weapons all the time, but once the guard is sleeping or stunned I walk up and put a bullet behind his ear. Otherwise, there's too much chance that the guard will sound the alarm, or find another weapon, after he recovers. Grisly, but there you go.

You can also play the game as a run-n-gun thing, though. Either approach seems to work okay, and they both have advantages and disadvantages.

So what you're saying is, "no".

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

So what you're saying is, "no".

Thank you!
Being stealthy does let you listen in on some of the funny guard conversations, though.

[Dave Perkins]

Being stealthy does let you listen in on some of the funny guard conversations, though.

I want to know if I can kill guards without losing some sort of bonus. I believe the first game gave you credit for killing as little as possible. But I think I got my answer, above.

Your advice is good, Steve.. I do try and listen in on the humorous conversations--in NOLF, my favorite was the guy talking about beer. But then I want to know if I can kill them without missing out on some sort of upgrade.

I appreciate the replies I've gotten, by the way.. thanks, all.

The spookiest conversation I heard in NOLF was the one featuring a guy who was worried about "the spy" (me), especially because I was making his job dangerous, and he wanted to return home to his family safely. I shot him. I felt sort of sickened, killing that guy. It was like a weird Turing test.

Anyone else remember feeling that way?

- Dave

[Jim Hoffman]

I know how you feel, Dave.
I remember one NOLF1 level where a guy was talking about the psychology of bad guy henchman, how they'd been treated poorly early in life, yadda yadda.
It was a fairly long monologue, but it made me feel bad when I had to kill him. Fairly disturbing.
In a way, this is one of the cool things in the game.. I don't ever feel anything when fragging in UT!

[Raife]

Dave, you won't miss anything by not killing them as long as you search them.

Sometimes enemies will have notes or memos that give you bonus skill points for collecting intel (and are often humorous, and may contribute to the story). The base skill point value for these is 20.

Enemies can also have ammo/grenades/armor/bandages you might be able to use. They'll have weapons as well, but those are specific to the enemy type and won't change.

[Dave Perkins]

Sometimes enemies will have notes or memos that give you bonus skill points for collecting intel (and are often humorous, and may contribute to the story).

Ah, that's the sort of thing I was wondering about. So, in a sense, I might be missing out on some skill points by NOT killing them!

- Dave

[voltaic]

The spookiest conversation I heard in NOLF was the one featuring a guy who was worried about "the spy" (me), especially because I was making his job dangerous, and he wanted to return home to his family safely. I shot him. I felt sort of sickened, killing that guy. It was like a weird Turing test.

I've only gotten just past the Siberia levels, but I haven't had any problems with executing anyone in my way, including scientists that begged me not to shoot them, etc. I just put myself into the mindset/era of the game. I'm a British agent fighting the evil forces of COMMUNISM, baby. All commies are evil, all slavic people are commies, hence they all must DIE DIE DIE. Hey such was the thinking back in the late 60s. It helps to remove any psychological problems with whacking them out (usually by stunning/tranqing and then putting one in the brain as they snooze). Hey at least I make it painless.

[T Elhajj]

I've only gotten just past the Siberia levels, but I haven't had any problems with executing anyone in my way, including scientists that begged me not to shoot them, etc.

If you don't shoot the scientists, they will set off the alarm after they are done cowering. I just think of Mr. Blonde from Resevoir Dogs: "If they wouldn't have done what I told them not to do, I wouldn't have done what I did."

[Jason Cross]

If I get spotted, I re-load my last save. I think Ill probably end up just blasting my way through this level, though, as the alarms always seem to go off (while I tranquilize one guy, someone behind me sees me).

If you played the first, this is a hard habit to break. But trust me, if you run away and hide, the alarm will go off and the guards will return to normal duty. It might be faster to just hit quickload, but some of the most interesting guard AI is when they're searching for you. Makes for some good tense moments, too.

[Jason Cross]

The benefit of stealth:

It's mostly just good for two things. One, conserving ammo. Guards who are unaware die after taking FAR less damage than ones you are actively in combat with you. Two, funny guard conversations. Like, after you plant the bomb on the radio tower in Siberia and you go back to rescue the (awesome) pilot. If you went in shooting, you would probably never hear the really funny conversation where the guards are "tricked" by the pilot into talking about Project Omega. If you raise a ruckus before you get close to that building, they'll come running out and won't have the opportunity to que the dialog.

Ruckus is a great word.

Sometimes enemies will have notes or memos that give you bonus skill points for collecting intel (and are often humorous, and may contribute to the story).

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe this is NOT true. You will find notes on guards sometimes (based partially on your search skill), but they're merely entertaining. I don't recall one ever conferring the 20 skill points for finding an intelligence item like you get from file cabinets or desks. At some point I actually started paying attention to this, too, because I wanted to see if boosting your search skill could pay off in more skill points.

I wish NOLF2 made use of cool "covert" moments more. Like the thing with the hot water and the writing on the mirror in India. There were lots of missed opportunities to do that stuff - obvious ones, too. Why is the code breaker in Japan in a big present next to the vending machine? Wouldn't it be more sneaky and spy-organization-like if I was told to find the out of order soda machine and buy a Ginger Ale? Then out pops the code breaker. Come to think of it, all of the necessary gadgets you acquire from presents could have been covertly hidden instead of in presents, with just notes from Santa for where to look for them.

[Dave Perkins]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe this is NOT true. You will find notes on guards sometimes (based partially on your search skill), but they're merely entertaining. I don't recall one ever conferring the 20 skill points for finding an intelligence item like you get from file cabinets or desks.

Weirdly enough, the very first note I took off of a downed ninja gave me 20 skill points. However, that is the only time so far that this has happened, so it probably won't happen again.

Wouldn't it be more sneaky and spy-organization-like if I was told to find the out of order soda machine and buy a Ginger Ale? Then out pops the code breaker. Come to think of it, all of the necessary gadgets you acquire from presents could have been covertly hidden instead of in presents, with just notes from Santa for where to look for them.

Excellent points!

[MarchHare]

Remember that note you found in Morocco in NOLF1 about the guy who was running away from his lover because he was a spy? Well, if you search the body of one of the first baddies you kill in the Underwater Base level, you can find out more to this story. Pretty cool of Monolith to include some continuity humour in there. :D

[Sean Tudor]

I have just received NOLF2 here in Australia and was playing it last night. I like how there are two chapters and then the opening credits start up. I was also saying "What the f... ?!" when Cate cops it early in the game. So far I am loving it. The graphics are fabulous and I have everything turned to max with no slow downs.

This game is a great showcase for high-end graphics cards.

[Jim Hoffman]

potential spoiler.....?
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.

Finished the game last week.
Have a question about the last cutscene, with 2 characters in it, after credits and all.
When a certain "someone" says "I quit", that ended the scene for me. That was it? I wanted a certain "Someone else" to get his just desserts. What am I missing here?

[MarchHare]

When a certain "someone" says "I quit", that ended the scene for me. That was it? I wanted a certain "Someone else" to get his just desserts. What am I missing here?


They leaving those "someones" alive for NOLF3, I suspect. ;)

[Supertanker]

Hopefully so. One of the dumbest things the Bond people ever did was kill off Ernst Blofeld.

[Jim Hoffman]

It just seemed weird that the last scene ended with "I quit", rather abrupt.
Although you could've quit out of the game at the credits, thinking that was the end, and missed that fairly worthless scene altogether.

[Dave Perkins]

Wow, found myself sweeping my 'welding' tool back and forth* on a door hinge just now. Color me 'immersed'! I thought I'd come share with a bunch of folks who probably know the drill.

* rather than just holding it still and waiting for the 'completion bar' to empty

[Gladguy]

Heh heh... I did that too, Dave. :oops:

I also found myself using the lockpick and making sure the pointy bit was exactly in the hole of the lock. I could swear that made the bar move faster... :roll:

[Sean Tudor]

I haven't finished the game yet - I am on Chapter 15. Amazing scenery.

[Dave Perkins]

I also found myself using the lockpick and making sure the pointy bit was exactly in the hole of the lock. I could swear that made the bar move faster... :roll:

Nice!