Does anyone know anything about astrological signs?

[Captain Tenneal]

I have no clue, but suddenly I'm interested in astrological signs. Does anyone know anything worthwhile about them? Ya know, like uh, I dunno fill in the blank...

[Jobe]

I'm thinking essays aren't required anymore.

[Lunch of Kong]

My sign is octagonal. As in, "STOP"

[Captain Tenneal]

hmm... not helping....

[Captain Tenneal]

i dont want to know your sign, i want to know about them...

[nutsak]

What - you mean like Taurus, Gemini.. Cancer? That sort of thing. Yeh, I know 'a bit'. Whether or not you believe in what they print in the paper each day is another thing. ( Generally* my weekly one says 'this week you are poor' which is odd because I'm on welfare. )

I know a 'bit' about what is mostly accepted in the community about Taureans - but that's only because that's my sign. I can recommend getting one of those yearly Star sign based books that tell you the 'specifics' about your particular sign - the should only set you back around 2 -5 bucks.

*that being the whole thing about them.

I generally think of them as a set of 'stats' for who I am ( like morrowind but more detailed) and mostly shy away from the 'Athena Star Woman says' things.

[Captain Tenneal]

Hmm, I'm a Taurus as well. Thanks for the info.

[Supertanker]

http://skepdic.com/astrolgy.html

[Euri]

I have no clue, but suddenly I'm interested in astrological signs. Does anyone know anything worthwhile about them? Ya know, like uh, I dunno fill in the blank...

It's bunk. They don't even correlate correctly anymore. Signs are hundreds of years out of date. TV Guide astrology says i'm a Taurus. Signs are calculated using actual real astronomy. The point of the sun's zenith determines which sign a given time of the year is.

Unfortunately for idiot astronomers, the procession of equinoxes has altered the tropical zodiac (the zodiac almost all western astrologers use) so that they are literally wrong no matter what they're doing. I am not a taurus. The sun's zenith is in ARIES on April 24, not Taurus. Taurus happens later, now.

The problem with astrology is well.. numerous. In my above example, astrology assumes that we are a perfect sphere spinning perfectly in place.

Well. We aren't. We're an oblate spheroid. Our axis wobbles. Our north star is no longer as north as it used to be, and will in fact be pointing at Vega in about 40,000 years, instead of Polaris.

Anyway, there is absolutely 0, none, nada, zilch evidence that astrology works. It's carnival fortune telling at best. Sure, it's fun to have a chart drawn for you, some of them are rather pretty, and we all have our little stints using ouija boards and the like. However, a reasonable adult should not harbour such silly delusions. Astrology has been thoroughly debunked for *centuries* It will not magically begin to become accurate in todays world, especially considering that the astrologers themselves don't even understand what they're talking about.

[nutsak]

Which is why I no longer use it for the guides.

Instead of saying it's all fake and cannot be true - how about we point the good Captain in the direction of information and allow him to decide for himself.

By the way Euri - April 23 here - and I most certainly have Taurus traits.
Go look them up - it's uncanny how similar myself and another Taurean friend actually are compared to my Gemini Lady and my Aries pal. Even though that could be argued to up bringing and lifestyle.

[Captain Tenneal]

Yeah, that's right! Captain am I! Lol sorry, I had to do that. Seriously, this is good stuff guys, keep talkin'. I'm getting a good view as to how it is interpretted and your opinions are pretty cool...

[Euri]

Which is why I no longer use it for the guides.

Instead of saying it's all fake and cannot be true - how about we point the good Captain in the direction of information and allow him to decide for himself.

By the way Euri - April 23 here - and I most certainly have Taurus traits.
Go look them up - it's uncanny how similar myself and another Taurean friend actually are compared to my Gemini Lady and my Aries pal. Even though that could be argued to up bringing and lifestyle.

Okay I am guessing you just didn't understand.

On April 23. The day you are Born. Okay follow me?

The sun's zenith is in Aries. You are not a Taurus.


Humans pattern recognition is significant. All astrology is the result of data mining. Hell, if you can show astrology does work the James Randi Educational Foundation will give you a million dollars.

What's that? Oh yes. People have tried. Nobody has come close. Double blind studies across this earth have constantly shown that astrology is nothing. There is no science. There is no methodology. I could outline several tests for you that would conclusively show that there is nothing to astrology, if you want to round up a couple dozen people to participate in said test.

Hell, i'll make this easy for you.

On April 23, when the sun is at it's peak (Zenith) carefully pay attention to where it is. Now, that night, go and look at the same spot in the sky.

What's there? That's right. Not Taurus.

[Captain Tenneal]

Soooooo, May 1st is not Taurus? :?

[nutsak]

Geeze Euri - getting a little touchy over my beliefs aren't you? You do this for everything that threatens your opinions?

[Jason McCullough]

It's a pretty stupid belief. At least most major religions are smart enough not to put in testable predictions.....

[mtkafka]

I actually did alot of birthcharts (and Tarot and Runes) in college... had to do a paper in occult in modern english literature (mainly in the Wasteland), and got into it from there. So from that I learned alot about Iching, Tarot, astrology... etc etc.... was pretty cool to pretend to know peoples personalities and giving some readings and whatnut at parties... got me some chicks as well! But its all alot of bunk... and I started getting some bad karma from all that... uhhh dont do it!

BTW I'm a cancer... and ironically... I kinda fit the crab personality... no really!

etc

[Midnight Son]

Astrology is totally unsupported by scientific evidence, ie: bunk.

[nutsak]

On that notition. I have never seen a picture of an atom - they mustn't exist.

[Duality]

If you think The Onion horoscopes aren't absolutely correct every week, then you are broken!

[Bill]

I actually did alot of birthcharts (and Tarot and Runes) in college... had to do a paper in occult in modern english literature (mainly in the Wasteland), and got into it from there.


Hey, I played Wasteland in college too, but no one ever suggested that I do a paper on it. That was a kickass game.

[mtkafka]

I actually did alot of birthcharts (and Tarot and Runes) in college... had to do a paper in occult in modern english literature (mainly in the Wasteland), and got into it from there.


Hey, I played Wasteland in college too, but no one ever suggested that I do a paper on it. That was a kickass game.

No I meant TS Eliots the Wasteland!

etc

[Anders Hallin]

I find the idea of "proper" astrology, as it has been described here and there, fascinating. That doesn't mean I believe it anymore than I do magic or gods, though :)

[cyborg]

On that notition. I have never seen a picture of an atom - they mustn't exist.

It's not physically possible to see atoms - only photons that are emitted from them that are within the visible wavelength range.

Either way astrology is clearly nonsense - the Greek sense of constalations and the stories woven around them are a good way of learning what important stars are what - but unlike say, the atrologies of China, they weren't going to be killed if they disagreed.

I mean, would you go to a soothsayer and have him cut open a pig and read its entrails everyday? The Romans did and they were big on astrologers too - working off the Greek constalations and myths and many other sources to create their nonsense.

Hence for me reading a horoscope is about as accurate and trying to predict my future by thoughourly examining a McDonalds sandwhich.

[Captain Tenneal]

I find the idea of "proper" astrology, as it has been described here and there, fascinating. That doesn't mean I believe it anymore than I do magic or gods, though :) i have to agree with you. I posted the message to explore what intrigued me, no harm no foul... :wink:

[nutsak]

I mean, would you go to a soothsayer and have him cut open a pig and read its entrails everyday?

Sure if it works or had significance. Though I don't actually go by the stars everyday. Like I said before - I read about them and found results that seemed to show to me certain traits that happened to be in certain people that I know. I use that information to understand why I may or may not behave the way I do.

[Derek Meister]

So let's put the "ability to predict your future" part of Astrology aside, as most of us rightly don't believe in it.

How about the "you generally have such-n-such traits because you were born in such-n-such period of the year" aspect?

While the skeptic part is obviously skeptical, the more accepting part of me could see the outside possibility that being born during a certain part of the year could involve various environmental and social influences that would bring about a few like traits in people also born at that time.

Mind you, I don't put any real stock in that theory, but it's an interesting thought that doesn't actually involve the stars having anything to do with our lives.

[Trixie]

I don't believe in Astrology in the slightest, but Euri is misunderstanding how the signs are determined.

The signs of the zodiac are along the ecliptic, the path the sun takes among the stars. Where you go and look in the sky, especially if you're in the northern hemisphere (as opposed to the equator) you won't be able to accurately determine the sun's path. And if you do it at night, you'll be looking at a whole different set of stars, the earth rotates ya know?

He is right though that the stars are changing, although very slightly. I believe a Scorpio is technically an Ophiucus now, but nobody told Miss Cleo.

[Captain Tenneal]

I kinda like Derek Meister's theory, if you think about it, it makes sense. Oddly enough, this is the exact part that I wanted to get into detail - why do certain people fit the traits of certain signs? Any takers?

[Troy S Goodfellow]

The signs are not a reliable indicator of personality type in the slightest degree. The whole "seasonal environmental affect" theory is bunk because there is not a constant seasonal affect in the northern hemisphere - the only place where the zodiac makes any sense at all (Is there a southern zodiac?). Can you reasonably argue that an Aries in Alaska will have the same environmental conditions as an Aries in Syria?

The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars but in ourselves. Astrology can be easily tested and fails miserably every test. This isn't even something like religious faith, which assumes that there is an inscrutable deity watching us. Astrology is the belief that inanimate, burning balls of gas influence our lives.

You might as well construct a worldview based on black cats and walking under ladders.

Troy

[Kalle]

I kinda like Derek Meister's theory, if you think about it, it makes sense. Oddly enough, this is the exact part that I wanted to get into detail - why do certain people fit the traits of certain signs? Any takers?

Because the traits are so vague and generalistic that practically everyone can identify with them to a certain degree? :roll:

Honestly, when I hear people tell me they put faith, any amount of faith, in astrology it really makes me feel sad. Sad that people are so ignorant, pathetic and gullible that they believe in something so obviously false.

[mtkafka]

I can see Kalle that you are a stubborn man. You like a well thought argument with logic... you are under the aspect of mercury, the sign of practical logic and a sign of intelligence. Sometimes you can be fair, but once in awhile, you just let it out. There is a part of you that is searching though. I see it in the stars..... :lol:

etc

[Lunch of Kong]

why do ... people fit the traits of certain signs?

That's a leading question. They don't. Most peoples' personalities contain traits attributed to many signs.

Also, the human brain always tries to find patterns in randomness. That's why we see faces in clouds. So, given a set of traits that's supposed to apply to a person, our brain goes into selective pattern matching mode.

[Chris Nahr]

Also, the human brain always tries to find patterns in randomness.

Aye, the transcendental category of causality rears its ugly head again...

[Supertanker]

I saw a TV program where James Randi did a great stunt on a college class. He was introduced as a great astrologer who had prepared individual personality profiles of everyone in the class. They handed out envelopes containing the readings, each one with a student's name on it. The students were given about 15 minutes to read the profiles, and there were lots of nodding heads. Then Randi asked them questions about how accurate the profiles were, and about 80% of the class said they were surprisingly accurate, and showed enormous insight into their personality.

Randi then had the class exchange profiles, and they quickly realized all the profiles were identical. The best part was that two or three people still maintained that the profiles were valid and accurate readings of their personalities.

I like to cut up the horoscopes in the paper and have people pick which one is theirs. Getting the right one is pure chance.

[Euri]

I don't believe in Astrology in the slightest, but Euri is misunderstanding how the signs are determined.

No, I'm not. The tropical zodiac (which almost all western astrologers use) was calculated exactly the way I said it was. It IS calculated along the equator (tropical), and it IS incorrect today due to reasons I already explained. Fly to south america and see for yourself. If you know anything about astronomy and star watching, you can calculate the proper offset and see that I am indeed correct. Now, if you want to get into Sidereal calculations, they are entirely different and not what is being used today.

[Gourmand]

ooh, ooh - Do numerology next. :D

[LarryLard]

Hindu astrology uses the stars' positions in the constellations as they are today, rather than as they were back when the Babylonians were first at it. But... it's still bunk :) I mean, I share a birthdate with Noam Chomsky, Leopold Kronecker, Pietro Mascagni, and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor; and my birth *day* with a Romanian tennis star, and an American Olympic swimmer - but I have little in common with any of them.

[Euri]

Hindu astrology uses the stars' positions in the constellations as they are today, rather than as they were back when the Babylonians were first at it. But... it's still bunk :) I mean, I share a birthdate with Noam Chomsky, Leopold Kronecker, Pietro Mascagni, and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor; and my birth *day* with a Romanian tennis star, and an American Olympic swimmer - but I have little in common with any of them.

It's also called Vedic, or Jyotish. It's Sidereal astrology.

[Jobe]

Here's a Kleenex.

[Theodore Rex DX]

STFU Jobe.

[Jobe]

Also known as a tissue

[Theodore Rex DX]

A ... a ... a .... *TISSUE*.

[Bullhajj]

Tissue? I don't even know you. :)

Badda, du, dump, crash. Be here all week folks. All week.

[Jobe]

and hopefully next week!

[cyborg]

Not if I'm reading this sheep's liver correctly... you're not too attached to the use of your limbs are you?

[Captain Tenneal]

Tissue? I don't even know you. :)

Badda, du, dump, crash. Be here all week folks. All week.

HAHA Tissue, I get it! You freakin' rock dude!!! LMAO :lol:

[Bullhajj]

I made the Captain and Tenneal laugh! Awesome.

Say, didn't you do Muskrat Love in the 80s?

[Captain Tenneal]

Yes, but I'm not too proud of that. Let's just keep that between us, eh? :wink:

[Supertanker]

There's an experiment that I always wanted to test out, but it requires that I become president, so it is unlikely.

I want to put a bunch of goats in a pen on the White House grounds. Then, every couple of days, have a goat secretly removed from the pen and sent to an undisclosed location. Eventually the press would notice there aren't many goats left, and would ask about them. My response would be that to assist me in making policy decisions, I had employed an official White House extispicist, and the goats had been slaughtered so we could examine their entrails for omens.

My hypothesis is that any resulting public outcry would not be over my use of superstition to guide national and international policy. Instead, people would call for my removal from office because I am cruel to goats.

[Captain Tenneal]

You could offer free readings to appease them! :wink:

[deanco]

"Hence for me reading a horoscope is about as accurate and trying to predict my future by thoughourly examining a McDonalds sandwhich."

You will have an acute case of indigestion in the near future...

DeanCo--

[Kyle Wilson]

I made the Captain and Tenneal laugh! Awesome.

Say, didn't you do Muskrat Love in the 80s?

That was the Captain and Tennille (www.captainandtennille.net/).

[Captain Tenneal]

Oh yeah, that's right. Come to think of it, I never did like Muskrat love...

[Midnight Son]

Any ABBA fans here?