Pretty good Pat Buchanan article ripping into neo-cons/iraq

[mtkafka]

check this out. Pat's pretty smart! Inisghtful and its coming from a known conservative!

http://www.amconmag.com/3_1_04/cover.html

etc

[extarbags]

If death comes to the West it will be because we embraced a culture of death—birth control, abortion, sterilization, euthanasia.

Birth control and abortion are the real terrorism. Yep, real insightful there, Pat.

[Doug Erickson]

There's been a war a-brewin' between the old-guard conservatives and the "neocons" for quitr some time now, and it seems Pat wants to fire the first public shot.

Actually, despite their occasional political cloisters with the moralistic far right, I have a healthy respect for the poor marginalized classic conservatives of the George Will bent, who simply want the federal government out of EVERYTHING: the economy, taxation, war, public morality, et al. They were at odds against the imperialistic "liberals" of the Berkeley bent; now, they're siding with modern progressives against the invasive policies of the neocons (and their unholy Fundamentalist allies) on the right AND the bleeding-heart imperialists on the far left. Man, it's crazy times.

[Jakub]

Holy crap.

Does he still have a following among Republicans?

[mtkafka]

Beisdes his little religious views interspersed into the article, I thought it was pretty good. If it weren't for Bush, there are some conservatives I like... like McCain. Not saying I'd vote for Buchanan, but he usually means what he says, even if he is sorta... a nazi hehehehe.

etc

[extarbags]

I like Bob Dole. Bush has no bearing on my opinion of other conservatives.

Pat Buchanan or GWB... it's actually hard to say who's worse. Scary.

[Doug Erickson]

Besides, there are a lot of issues these days that classic liberals and conservatives can agree on, like gay marriage -- for libs, it moves the social dialog further to embrace a normally disenfranchised group, and for conservatives, supporting it means the government has less say in how you live your life and what you do with it.

The "culture war" these days is between civil libertarians and imperialists -- those who don't want the government to decide public morality, and those who do. Neocons aren't conservatives by any definition, because they want to change the US to a more aggressive, imperialistic state and to open our borders under the umbrella of private economic interests. Neither are Christian fundamentalists conservative, since they want to legislate Christian doctrine at the federal level.

[Jakub]

Wow, he really doesn't pull any punches.

Say the authors: “We must hunt down the individual terrorists before they kill our people or others .... We must deter all regimes that use terror as a weapon of state against anyone, American or not” [emphasis added].

Astonishing. The authors say America is responsible for defending everyone, everywhere from terror and deterring any and all regimes that might use terror —against anyone, anywhere on earth.

But there are 192 nations. Scores of regimes from Liberia to Congo to Cuba, from Zimbabwe to Syria to Uzbekistan, and from Iran to Sudan to the Afghan warlords of the Northern Alliance who fought on our side—have used torture and terror to punish enemies. Are we to fight them all?

Well, actually, no. Excepting North Korea, the authors’ list of nations that need to be attacked reads as though it were drawn up in the Israeli Defense Ministry. By the second paragraph, Perle and Frum have given us a short list of priority targets: “The war on terror is not over, it has barely begun. Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Hamas still plot murder.”

[Midnight Son]

It's amusing to see the dogs turn on each other. It's fear of November, friends.

[Anaxagoras]

It's amusing to see the dogs turn on each other. It's fear of November, friends.

I don't think it's either. It's evidence of a serious rift in ideology within the Republican party, and some Republicans are trying to inject sanity back into the party. Rove and company can't spackle over the differences anymore.

[Midnight Son]

They are acting like Democrat beeyatches! It's amusing.

[Dave Markell]

Neocons aren't conservatives by any definition, because they want to change the US to a more aggressive, imperialistic state and to open our borders under the umbrella of private economic interests. Neither are Christian fundamentalists conservative, since they want to legislate Christian doctrine at the federal level.

This is so true, and yet almost no one sees it. Since the fundies and the neo's are Republicans, then they have to be conservatives. QED, except it's totally false. "Conservatives" who want to use the government to enforce their own social agendas are advocating a view radically different from that of the Founders they supposedly revere. I hate them with a passion.

[Woolen Horde]

Neocons really want one thing, and that's the agressive projection of American power. To them, American power is a force for good, and it should be applied.

Apart from that though, and most prominent neocons are actually (or suspected to be) socially liberal. In fact, most of them were aids and staffers for the original Super Hawk, deceased Washington Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a Democrat.

Perle describes himself as a "Scoop Jackson" Republican.

Rumsfeld has long been moderate on social issues, though his aggressive stance as SecDef makes it hard to see.

[Doug Erickson]

I dunno; the "neocons" allied pretty quickly with the Christian Fundamentalist right under Gingrich's auspices. That said, a federal foreign policy of pre-emptive aggression is hardly conservative. And which sub-group do we blame for the Patriot Acts?

[Jason McCullough]

I think that's just tactical, Doug. If the left would start giving up its ass for Isreal I'm sure the neocons would switch sides.

[Jakub]

Hey, you know what's interesting? The WMDs and other lies about Iraq could actually be an application of Straussian theory - the "noble lie" to get the populace in line behind an effort.

[Jason McCullough]

The neocons haven't actually come out and said that, Jakub, but they've gotten pretty damn close.