A maze of twisty passages, all alike...

[Chris Floyd]

So, it's come up in another thread and I was curious... We have what I think could be called a very "literary" crowd here on the boards, but I'd venture to guess that text adventures don't sound like much fun to many people anymore. I ask because there's still a very rich text adventure-writing community (they tend to call it "Interactive Fiction," I should note) out there, and they produce some really high quality work.

But even I, who grew up on Infocom games, find I have less time and patience for such games. Contrary to the easy assumption, though, it's not because of the reading. Mainly, it's because the puzzles are too HARD. I think generally adventure game puzzles have turned out to be a less fulfilling method of game playing when compared to newer developments (getting stuck isn't too fun, and trying a gajillion random things and getting nothing but a gajillion failure messages is just frustrating). When the game is just text and the commands are sentences, the tools and solutions for the puzzles become more abstract. The possibilities are far more extensive. It takes just the right degree of pacing, logic, and in-game hints to make such a game truly fun.

Which makes the fairly recent trend in Interactive Fiction appealing to me: Many authors have turned to less puzzles and more, well, literary devices in their games. And, not surprisingly, some of them don't turn out to be very game-like at all. But they can be really fun, thought-provoking, and aesthetically pleasing. Which is better than many of today's games do.

What's my point? Hell, I don't know. Grues? Floyd the Droid? That damned Babel Fish puzzle? Anyone look back on these things with love and longing?

[Samuel Bass]

Infocom adventure games hold a dear, dear place in my heart.

As a kid, I was limited to Pac Man, Star Raiders and Zaxxon until my 7th birthday rolled around. It seems that my eternally cool techno-hipster dad had scored me a copy of Zork I as an experiment in father-son bonding. Needless to say, it worked. We played through that whole damn game together, drawing beautifully detailed maps (which I still have), cursing the thief and solving that darn torch puzzle. From there, we moved into Planetfall, Hitchhikers Guide and a whole panoply of other such titles, including works from such long forgotten developers as Level 9 and Magnetic Scrolls (Fish! is still one of the greatest adventures of all time).

In a way, I still miss 'em - the classic text adventure was limitless in terms of narrative possibility, as the burgeoning indie interactive fiction scene has since demonstrated, and, for all its limitations, allowed for a great deal of innovation in terms of gameplay. More power to those that continue to carry the torch...

[DennyA]

I loved the Infocom games. I'm really sorry that the genre died out.

I'd love to see a modern take on them with a parser written to take advantage of the power of today's machines. (Figuring out the words the parser was looking for was sometimes as great a challenge as solving the puzzles.)

I've never tried the "community-created" text adventures; I just assumed none could match the quality Infocom games.

By the way, if you have a Palm OS handheld, there's a Frotz interpreter for them that lets you play these games on your PDA. It's fun to get in a turn or two while waiting around. Maybe I'll finally solve Zork III on my Kyocera Smartphone....

[Chris Floyd]

On the contrary, many (though certainly not all) text adventure authors today have learned important lessons that Infocom didn't have the time to learn. Infocom games are still among the most polished text games, but there are quite a few that rival or exceed Infocom's offerings. I'd recommend the following, all playable on your Frotz interpreter:

Anchorhead (a BIG Lovecraftian puzzle-fest that oozes atmosphere)
Christminster (conspiracy in an old English college)
Curses (A polished and challenging time-travellin' puzzle-fest)
Vericella (Pseudo-Renaissance puzzler with a great narrator and NPCs)
Edifice (A kind of evolutionary allegory, I guess; very interesting with one brilliant language-based puzzle)

For more "literary" -- and less game-y -- text adventures, try one of these two:

Photopia (best with an interpreter that can display color)
Rameses (a brilliantly written game where the narrator won't obey your commands)

Many of these are short (the first three are longer) and can be played in an evening. You can grab any of them at The Interactive Fiction Archive, most of them off of this page:

http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archiveXgamesXzcode.html

I highly recommend any of these if they sound at all interesting. They all use a fairly standard Infocom-style parser. Give them a try!

[AlexxKay]

These sounded interesting, and I downloaded most of them to take a look. Couldn't find "Curses" though...

[Gladguy]

How do you solve that damned Babel Fish puzzle anyway?

It's been keeping me awake at nights for years!

[Chris Floyd]

Have fun, Alexx! Let me know what you think.

As for the Babel Fish, I don't remember the whole thing, but chances are the part you missed was putting a pile of mail (from your house at the beginning of the game) in front of the panel that the cleaning robot comes out of. That sounds even more entertaining out of context, doesn't it?

[Aleck]

As for the Babel Fish, I don't remember the whole thing, but chances are the part you missed was putting a pile of mail (from your house at the beginning of the game) in front of the panel that the cleaning robot comes out of.

Should it scare me that this was my initial thought, too?

I really miss the infocom text adventures (and even the old Eamon adventures). Anyone know if any of that stuff is now in the public domain?

Downloading the forementioned IF games and the new U.S. Army game in the background,

ASJunk

[Alternate#789]

I haven't got into the Infocom stuff much, though I'd like to during the summer. My shorter, simpler IF picks are:

Shrapnel-Very first IF I ever played. Fairly creepy
Shade-Second I ever played. Just as creepy
Photopia-Of course.
Get a Grip-Very abstract, haven't yet finished it.
Aisle-Gives you only 1 move a game
Hunter, In Darkness-Involves a wumpus. Need I say more?
Spider, In Web-Told in a flashback while you're being interrogated
Coke Is It!-I think this is my favorite, so it warrants a bit more space. It's IF if it was sponsored by Coca-Cola. You can play parts of real games, but there are Coke references strewn around. If you give the PC a verb it doesn't recognize, it prints "That's not a verb I recognize. Try >DRINK". Pure brilliance, especially the Planetfall minigame, because it takes the most heartbreaking part and inserts meaningless product placement.

In general, check out anything by Adam Cadre or Andrew Plotkin. They're the two real 'superstars' of the genre. At least to me they are.

[Alternate#789]

Also: Anyone ever try writing these things? Inform, as the Z-machine language is called, is very simple and fun. I'm in the planning stages of one now, I hope to release it by the end of the summer, and at least by the time of the Xyzzys, but I don't know when that is. I'm planning on one of the '2nd' class of IF, more literary and linear, less puzzles. I guess I'll post when it comes out, but when Oldmanmurray.com goes back up I'll probably lost interest in these boards. At any rate, look out for it. Working title: Wasteground

[xahlt]

While I loved the Infocom classics, I'd say probably my ultimate text adventure came from the later, devotees-only period, Humbug by Graham Cluley (http://www.grahamcluley.com/). Amazingly fun puzzles, and more British than an episode of Smack the Pony. Try it if you get a chance.

[Anonymous]

Chris Floyd:
I've got to agree with you that the puzzles are just too hard. I don't know if I'm just getting more stupid or just more lazy thanks to modern easy gameplay. A couple of years ago I started playing Enchanter and was having a fun time until the first puzzle I didn't immediately figure out. I gave up within 15 minutes. So then I moved on to Seastalker, and gave up after two plays because I couldn't shake the guy who was following me. So then I tried Moonmist, but gave up out of boredom before I really even hit the first puzzle. I must just be getting lazy, because I had a blast playing Leather Goddess of Phobos when that came out.


Gladguy, here's the HHGG Babel fish solution:
It's not that hard through trial and error, just keep pushing the dispenser button, and try to stop whatever causes you to lose the fish. Of course since there's a move limit, you'll end up having to reload a bunch of times to figure it all out. Because you're so limited, move-wise, it ends up being a pretty frustrating puzzle to solve, which is too bad, since it's so early in the game.

(Use your favorite ROT-13 translator.) Va gur Ibtba Ubyq: Erzbir Tbja. Unat Tbja ba ubbx. Jnvg sbe Sbeq gb fyrrc. Trg gbjry, fngpury. Chg gbjry bire qenva. Chg fngpury va sebag bs ebobg cnary. Chg whax znvy ba gbc bs gur fngpury. Chfu qvfcrafre ohggba.

asjunk:
Try looking here: http://www.lysator.liu.se/eamon/ for info on the old Eamon games. I'm kind of disappointed, because I distinctly remember playing Eamon on my C-64, but the web site barely mentions that version.

[Chris Floyd]

The tough thing about the babel fish puzzle is that you might not have all the inventory objects you must have to solve it. The biggest thing is to be sure to grab the pile of mail from your house before you get transported onto the Vogon ship.

[Anonymous]

There's a fantastic little program called ADRIFT out there that uses a GUI interface to design interactive fiction. It was surprisingly easy to work with, and I was able to write my own little game with it using a spell-casting 'system' similar to the old Infocom games.
For example, you learn a spell of 'Create Water' and the incantation for it is FLAMMICUS. You encounter a fire in an archway, and before you can pass through, you simply type on the command line 'FLAMMICUS' and it puts out the fire. You later learn (through scrolls you find) that a 'reverse spell' can be cast by speaking the keywords backwards. You find a key in a pond that is guarded by pirahna and the only way to get it is by typing on the command line "SUCIMMALF", draining the pond, leaving the fish harmless.

It was a blast to write, even though the plotline was weak (but the puzzles were strong). If you are ever interested in writing your own stuff, check it out.

[Mark Asher]

Chris Floyd:
I've got to agree with you that the puzzles are just too hard. I don't know if I'm just getting more stupid or just more lazy thanks to modern easy gameplay. A couple of years ago I started playing Enchanter and was having a fun time until the first puzzle I didn't immediately figure out. I gave up within 15 minutes. So then I moved on to Seastalker, and gave up after two plays because I couldn't shake the guy who was following me. So then I tried Moonmist, but gave up out of boredom before I really even hit the first puzzle. I must just be getting lazy, because I had a blast playing Leather Goddess of Phobos when that came out.


When you play an adventure game, you should be able to get the answer to any puzzle by asking the game for it. I will spend five minutes trying to figure it out, but that's it. It will be game over for me if I don't get the answer because after five minutes I am no longer having fun. I would play and enjoy adventure games if the answers were just a keystroke away.

It's like a save anywhere option. Let those who want more tension use their willpower and just not save. Let those who like to puzzle over puzzles not use the cheat key.

[Chris Floyd]

I agree with you, Mark, although ideally maybe it should take ten minutes before the solution is handed to you on a plate while after five minutes you start getting serious clues. It's more fun to feel smart. Or at least less dumb.

One design element that has diminished since the shift of adventure games to graphical environments and UI is that it's more difficult to surround the player with interesting interactions. If it were at least entertaining to explore the world -- you could pick up and play with every item in multiple ways -- then the trial-and-error might not be so frustrating. But with the standard adventure game interface with one "use" command, for example, there's only so much interactivity. You're channeled into the designed story. In many ways, I still think the text parser is superior. It just has to be a really good text parser.

It's interesting, though, how our expectations have changed since the Infocom days. Fact is, back then, screwing around with every damn thing you could was about as much fun as you could consistently have on a computer. Now the kids today with their runnin' and their gunnin' don't have time for trial-and-error. And I can't blame them.

[Samuel Bass]

When you play an adventure game, you should be able to get the answer to any puzzle by asking the game for it.

Interestingly enough, the majority of Winfrotz (Win98 compatible) Infocom games I scored from www.the-underdogs.org incorporate the "invisiclues" system directly into the game...you type HINT and get a series of hints leading up the actual solution. It's grrrreat!

As for the interaction thing, I agree...there's something fun about futzing around with each and every object in the gameworld and having something happen. I guess it's just easier to knock out a block of text then it is to do a series of animations and sound effects.

[xahlt]

I think part of it is the problem with visually indicating that something *could* be used or manipulated. Which a lot of the time means you just float your mouse over the entire screen and wait for the cursor to change, and the puzzles solve themselves. At least one advantage that a good text adventure had was that you could read between the lines of the description and make a guess on what you could do (which was fun or extremely not fun depending on how well the puzzle was written)

[Alan Au]

Ah, the pixel hunt. The truly good graphic adventures are less about 'what to do' and more about 'when to do.'

- Alan

[jeep]

So, it's come up in another thread and I was curious... We have what I think could be called a very "literary" crowd here on the boards, but I'd venture to guess that text adventures don't sound like much fun to many people anymore. I ask because there's still a very rich text adventure-writing community (they tend to call it "Interactive Fiction," I should note) out there, and they produce some really high quality work.

But even I, who grew up on Infocom games, find I have less time and patience for such games.

Patience to play the games? I tried one of Buzzard's TBAs and never got out of the alley I started in. After failing to successfully move or look at anything for about thirty minutes, I typed "fold SELF into SINGULARITY" and it just sort of exited gracefully. Now that's an open-ended game.

/jeep/
...Fuck you Chromatron 2 (http://silverspaceship.com/).[/url]

[Anonymous]

When you play an adventure game, you should be able to get the answer to any puzzle by asking the game for it. I will spend five minutes trying to figure it out, but that's it. It will be game over for me if I don't get the answer because after five minutes I am no longer having fun. I would play and enjoy adventure games if the answers were just a keystroke away.

Personally, I could do without spoon-fed answers if the puzzles were at least logical, or if maybe there were decent clues. I remember an article somewhere (maybe even @ Qt3) that detailed this long and laborious process to get past a security checkpoint. It required getting fur from a cat to fashion a fake mustache and marker to alter an ID. Not only did the solution make the Babel Fish puzzle look as easy as Anna Nicole Smith, it strains credudilty to even think it would work. Let me get this straight - cat hair, stuck on by gum, and an ID with Sharpie markings on it is going to get me past a Gestapo-esque border patrol? Cat-friggin-hair? Freaking Sharpie? That crap wouldn't get you past a blind bouncer in a college town that you slipped a $20 to.

What they could've done, however, is make the puzzle just as hard but much more realistic. Make it obvious you need to alter your appearence, give your character or the ID a cleft lip. Instead of cat hair, since it's probably in an urban area, put in a wig shop. Instead of a Sharpie, pull a Borne Identity (book, not movie) and force the player to find someone who will professionally alter the ID. Perhaps the NPC that fixes the ID will suggest the mustache, which leads to the wig shop. Crikey, anything would have been better that cat hair and a Sharpie.

[Bub, Andrew]

How you get the cat hair is also amusing.

I think there's some sort of mathematical formula you can use to figure out how long it'll take before someone mentions this puzzle, and the Babel fish, in any discussion about Adventure games. :)

[Supertanker]

I thought Roberta Williams (or whoever created that puzzle) said that one was supposed to be a joke. Nobody got it, but having it be a failed attempt at humor at least makes sense. It still remains a bad non-intuitive puzzle.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the heads up about this game--I'm playing it on Frobnitz on my Palm now and it's great, I'm liking it as much as The Lurking Horror!

[Aszurom]

I started our own interactive fiction thing...

http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=304

Could be fun. I've got it rolling, and posted the "rules" of how to work it. Hopefully if it gets picked up and done right, I can just sit back and see what happens.

[JeffL]

Well, just what I need - another time killer. I've started downloading IF games, got the three main interpreters, and now I'm exploring this world of text adventures. I grew up with the original Adventure, the Zorks, Oo-Topos, and the old Wizard and the Princess, etc. I dropped out of the adventure genre when they became less about role playing and more about solving insoluable problems - problems that could never be solved without a cheat book. I remember the specific puzzle that caused me to abandon the genre: one of the King's Quests, where you had to get something from a dwarf. The solution was to climb a tree (with no indication that you should do this), find the beehive in the tree, get the honey from the tree, climb down, put the honey in the middle of the path, put an emerald in the honey. The the dwarf comes by, sees the emerald, tries to get it, and gets stuck in the honey. Eh? Not only is it so non-intuitive and non-logical that no one would ever, EVER think to do this, but it also makes no frikken' sense - no one gets "stuck" in honey!

Hopefully the new IF games will be more thoughtful and interesting and less about figuring out illogical puzzles. I just started one where I ducked into an old abandoned theater to find my pager, and have run across old pages of a journal that indicate something afoul that happened many years ago - looks promising.

Any tips on good, immersive IF will be welcomed. Particularly those that aren't so focused on stupid puzzles.

[Chris Floyd]

Jeff -- Look above for my recommendations. I'd probably point you towards Edifice or Anchorhead. The puzzles in those are, to me, of a different sort than most of the text adventures of the past. Also, try Spider and Web (I think the filename on the IF arcive is "tangle") if you want less contrived, more direct puzzles... and a really twisted premise.

[Slothrop]

I just started one where I ducked into an old abandoned theater to find my pager, and have run across old pages of a journal that indicate something afoul that happened many years ago - looks promising.


What is the name of this one?

I got a ways into Anchorhead, then I ran into what seems like a bug and that sort of made me lose interest. I went back to the house and got the message that my husband had finally left the house, but then I went up to his study and I still couldn't go in because I didn't want to disturb him while he was writing. :?