Fuck Star Wars! Science fiction for fascists, explained

[Jason McCullough]

Maybe this is only new, to me, but what the hey:

http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html

Having said all that, let me again acknowledge that "Star Wars" harks to an old and very, very deeply human archetype. Those who listened to Homer recite the "Iliad" by a campfire knew great drama. Achilles could slay a thousand with the sweep of a hand -- as Darth Vader murders billions with the press of a button -- but none of those casualties matters next to the personal saga of a great one. The slaughtered victims are mere minions. Extras, without families or hopes to worry about shattering. Spear-carriers. Only the demigod's personal drama is important.

Thus few protest the apotheosis of Darth Vader -- nee Anakin Skywalker -- in "Return of the Jedi."

To put it in perspective, let's imagine that the United States and its allies managed to capture Adolf Hitler at the end of the Second World War, putting him on trial for war crimes. The prosecution spends months listing all the horrors done at his behest. Then it is the turn of Hitler's defense attorney, who rises and utters just one sentence:

"But, your honors ... Adolf did save the life of his own son!"

More here:

http://www.kithrup.com/brin/starwarsarticle3.html

I think he's dead on, and it explains why something has always kind of bothered me about Star Wars.

[Greg Lannes]

Jason,

Darth Vader is the epitome of all that's evil in Star Wars. There had to be a way to convey that and what better way than to have him slaughter a planet without hesitation.

Hannibal for all his martial feats against rome ended up having his civlization wiped from the face of the earth by the romans whom he irked just a little too much.

At least Darth Vader is fantasy. Rome on the other hand gave Hittler some interesting ideas.

Best,

Greg

[Brad Grenz]

Is anyone else as tired of reading Star Wars hit pieces as me? Oh no, every movie doesn't fit into your narrow, and in many cases absurd, concept of what it should be. As explicit as a film can be about its themes and meaning, there is always an element of interpretation. I'm sure writing Star Wars criticism is really easy and lucrative work, if you can get it, but at some point you've got to examine whether you are sabotaging your own enjoyment of the film.

I don't know how many times I've seen someone quibble about this or that and thought to myself, "well, if that bothers you, there are other ways of looking at it."

[Dirt]

Joseph Cambpell got to Lucas' head. Unfortunately, Campbell was only using Lucas to make popular his own ideas when most of the scholars at the time were deriding hiim.

[Anonymous]

"Unfortunately, Campbell was only using Lucas to make popular his own ideas when most of the scholars at the time were deriding hiim."

Lucas was using him equally, to give artistic/academic legitimacy to his sorry shit.

[Jason McCullough]

It wouldn't be as big of a deal, I think, if Lucas hadn't explicitly said in an interview that he thinks democracy is (paraphrasing) "Decadent and doomed, and a benign dictatorship would be better."

[voltaic]

...as Darth Vader murders billions with the press of a button...


I'm not impressed. Everyone knows that Vader didn't murder billions on any planet. Grand Moff Tarkin ordered it! Puh. :lol:

[Erik Andersson]

Having said all that, let me again acknowledge that "Star Wars" harks to an old and very, very deeply human archetype. Those who listened to Homer recite the "Iliad" by a campfire knew great drama. Achilles could slay a thousand with the sweep of a hand -- as Darth Vader murders billions with the press of a button -- but none of those casualties matters next to the personal saga of a great one. The slaughtered victims are mere minions. Extras, without families or hopes to worry about shattering. Spear-carriers. Only the demigod's personal drama is important.

I doubt David Brin actually read the Iliad. The above quote doesn't make much sense if you have read it, at least. Sure, most of the people Achilles & Co killed were "minions", but they were actually minions with at least a name and usually a hometown as well. Many of the minions also had some additional abilities linked to them. And the leaders frequently stopped on the battlefield to brag about their own as well as their ancestors' accomplishments. Sometimes they even talked about their families and how the respective families' paths had crossed in the past.

All of them had hopes to worry about, the Greeks wanted to go home (victorious) and the Trojans wanted to save their city from destruction and their wives and children from slavery.

[Anders Hallin]

I doubt David Brin actually read the Iliad. The above quote doesn't make much sense if you have read it, at least. Sure, most of the people Achilles & Co killed were "minions", but they were actually minions with at least a name and usually a hometown as well. Many of the minions also had some additional abilities linked to them. And the leaders frequently stopped on the battlefield to brag about their own as well as their ancestors' accomplishments. Sometimes they even talked about their families and how the respective families' paths had crossed in the past.

All of them had hopes to worry about, the Greeks wanted to go home (victorious) and the Trojans wanted to save their city from destruction and their wives and children from slavery.

While it is true that you often get the entire lineage of a lot of those slain, I think there are a lot of nameless masses in it too, they just mention the heroes. It's been a while since I read it now but I think I reacted to that when I did.

[Erik Andersson]

While it is true that you often get the entire lineage of a lot of those slain, I think there are a lot of nameless masses in it too, they just mention the heroes. It's been a while since I read it now but I think I reacted to that when I did.

Well, I guess the Iliad would be quite long if everyone involved in the battles would have gotten a detailed description. Here is one passage I found when browsing through (translated from Swedish):

"Then Achilles swiftly killed Polydoros, the divinly beautiful son of Primos, who had been forbidden by his father to participate in the war because he was they lastborn child and the one he loved the most. In racing he had no equal but in his lack of wisdom, to show his agility(?) of the leg he ran among the men in front row until he was caught by death. Because as he ran past, the fleet footed(?) hero quickly ran his lance in the middle of his back where the golden..." and a detailed description of how he died follows.

If you overlook the fact that this is the worst translation of the Iliad you have ever seen, it should be enough to convince you that the Iliad is one of the worst books to use as an example of the death of nameless minions without family or motivations. Because there are plenty of such examples.

Btw, did you read Björkessons translation Anders? I think it is clearly better than the old one, and that we are really fortunate to have such a good translater of the ancient masterpieces for such a small language.

[Anders Hallin]

Btw, did you read Björkessons translation Anders? I think it is clearly better than the old one, and that we are really fortunate to have such a good translater of the ancient masterpieces for such a small language.

Indeed I did, both of that and the Odyssey. It really is a joy to read. I also found it really interesting to get the proper Swedish spelling of everything.

[Jason McCullough]

I suggest you email Brin and call him a poophead, as he actually reads it all.

[Jason Becker]

There just FUCKING movies people.

[Jason McCullough]

Right, and Godfather is "just a movie."

[TomChick]

There just FUCKING movies people.

Yes, Jason, hence the name of this part of the forum.

And games are just FUCKING games and sports are just FUCKING sports and politics is just FUCKING politics. But we still like to discuss them.

-Tom

P.S. Fuck Star Wars.

[Slothrop]

Btw, did you read Björkessons translation Anders? I think it is clearly better than the old one, and that we are really fortunate to have such a good translater of the ancient masterpieces for such a small language.

Indeed I did, both of that and the Odyssey. It really is a joy to read. I also found it really interesting to get the proper Swedish spelling of everything.

Well there's a conversation you don't see every day! (at least, not on most U.S.-based game-centric message boards.) :)