2004: most anticipated and dreaded games of the coming year

[Jason McMaster]

For my anticipation list I have to go with:

World of Warcraft(PC 06/14/04): After reading a good bit about this game, it seems like it's gonna be a blast. Finally a MMOG where you don't have to group with people and your down time is greatly reduced. Also the art design is really keen.

Fable(XBOX 06/01/04): If Pete manages to pull off all that he promised about this game, it could easily be the GOTY. I swear to God, though, if I get Black and Whited again I'm gonna kick his fancy ass.

Half-Life 2(PC 03/31/04): yep, although I must say that my excitement level has dropped considerably.

Doom 3(PC 07/14/04): yep

Silent Storm 2(PC 01/20/04): Not much of a wait left for this one. It looks really cool and God knows I love me a turn based game.

Painkiller(PC 03/10/04): The little that I've played the game has me deinfately interested. Fast paced action and nice graphics.

Sims 2(PC 02/24/04): Why not.

Halo 2(XBOX 04/01/04): Hopefully the release date won't jinx anything.

Dread list, well maybe not dread but definately with some eye-rolling:

Miami Vice(PC XBOX Q4 2004):What in the hell???

Ice Nine(PS2 02/04/04): This one is on the list due to the name.

James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing(PS2 XBOX GCN 02/17/04): Please stop making Bond games.

Games I'm iffy about:

NARC(XBOX Q2 2004): Fond memories.

Warhammer Online(PC Q2 2004): As much as I like Warhammer(mostly 40k), I really hate Warhammer PC games.


I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now.

[Charles]

I think the biggest game I'm waiting for is Beyond Divinity, the sequel to Divine Divinity.

I'll probably pick up a bunch of the games on your list, but I'm not particularly hyped about any of them. Maybe Fable, I'm curious about that one. If it works, it'll be very cool. If it doesn't, it'll suck the big one.

Is Thief 3 slated to be out this year?

[Brian Rucker]

1) 82nd Airborne: All American (Shrapnel) - again.

2) Fading Suns: Noble Armada (Matrix) - again.

Going on four or five years now for each of them? More maybe?

This year would have been squat for me, aside from Star Wars Galaxies, without indie games like Dom 2 and Combat Mission: Afrika Korps but there's a downside to some indie games too. The..........wait........

[Kyle Wilson]

Ice Nine(PS2 02/04/04): This one is on the list due to the name.


I'd expect it to be on the list because it's an entire game based on the freakin' MacGuffin from The Recruit (www.imdb.com/title/tt0292506/), which was a fetid turd of a movie.

[John Many Jars]

Miami Vice(PC XBOX Q4 2004):What in the hell???


I'll bet it was pitched as going back to the stylistic source of Vice City. Or as "Vice City for good guys."

[Jason McMaster]

yeah, that's what I imagined as well. Vice City sold well so lets bring in the originals! guh.

I first saw the name Ice Nine a while back and though "Are they making a Cat's Cradle game?"

Fable sounds great, but Pete is quite the talker.

[Mike Cathcart]

I'm missing a bunch from this list, but here are the first things I thought of.

First, the shooters:

Painkiller is great. The first undead skeleton type guy I shot at went flying over a ten foot wall. The next one exploded in a Kill Bill-esque pool of blood. Sold. Can't wait to try out some more weapons.

Halo 2: double fisting, tossing the Covenant out of their vehicles, Live! play. Jesus. Also, Jason, if it's out before August I'll buy you a copy. But like in three years, when it's a Platinum Hit.

HL2: still really excited about this one. I see where you're coming from, Jason, but there were so many great games that hit this winter that I was almost glad HL2 was delayed. First, I used the money I was going to put on a new video card to buy an XBox and some games, so that was great. And second, I didn't want to have to rush through it, or anything else, just so I could feel like I played everything. So yay Gordon.

Doom 3: What's that word that's the complete opposite of excited? I'm only buying this so that I have more material for making fun of it when Dave comes over. Just finish the engine and hand it over to someone who can use it, John.

Star Wars Battlegrounds: I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'm getting this game. I've got too many friends who are Star Wars fans so it's either buy this or don't see them for a month.

Kill Zone: I still can't believe this is a PS2 game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it's all a big hoax. Still, if it's out this year and looks as good as the videos floating around the net, I'm there.

Next, the kid games:

Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles How can you say no to a Final Fantasy party game? Screens look great and the import reviews have been extremely positive.

Final Fantasy XI (PS2) First MMORPG I've actually been excited about. I've been reading the strategy guide for three days now, and I might just give in and get the PC version first. Mostly I want the PS2 version for the cool box.

Final Fantasy XII OK, so there's a bit of a pattern here, but it's pretty cool that all three FF titles are completely different. Can't wait for this one.

Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes Metal Gear Solid may be my favorite PSX game that isn't called Final Fantasy something or other. I'm taking a vacation day for this one and playing it all the way through.

Metal Gear Solid 3 Outdoor Metal Gear is going to be some fun shit. Plus, the story might not completely obscure the actual game this time.

Metroid Zero Mission More GameBoy Player goodness.

Metroid Prime sequel Mmmmmm, multiplayer. I'd love to see Retro give us another kick-ass console LAN party game. Plus, Kraid.

R-Type Final and Gradius V Two new shooters that both look amazingly good.

New Zelda game Duh.

Edit: more games!

Tales of Symphonia Kitsune says it's an awesome RPG, so I'm gonna get it.

Donkey Konga I can't pass up crazy peripherals, plus I'm all about the rhythm games, so I hope this one makes it to the US.

[mtkafka]

I'm actually not that thrilled with most of the games coming out in 2004, in general ... notably because there isn't a big name crpg coming out. But here's my list anyway,

PC GAMES.

STALKER - morrowind horror/fps, not a sequel or a franchise

Xenus - open ended fps/rpg, not a sequel or a franchise

Sims 2 - if done right could be 'the Shit'! 'the Shit' meaning badass meaning awesome.

Half Life 2 - mainly for mods and multi. Seriously think I'm going to be dissapointed for some reason I dont know why...

Doom 3 - mainly tech

Warlords Battlecry 3 - loved WBC2, interested in sequel

Kohan 2 - more Kohan in 3d!

WoW - just to see how good can it be. might be dissapointed by overdone Disneyesque cartoon look.

Lineage 2 - chicks look awesome! okay, the game looks good and simple. plus FLYING DRAGON STEEDS!

Guild Wars - look at those recent screenshots! Could be the mmrpg breaker for me ... diablo meets eq. No fee!

UOX - same thing as Guild Wars, but with a fee.

Unreal Tourney 2004 - vehicles. plus to see how mods handle vehicles. the alternative to BF42.

Thief 3 - could be great, could be mediocre (ala DX2)

Vampire by Troika - who knows, Troika could have the best rpg/shooter! maybe its a System Shock in vampire clothing.

Tribes by Irrational - who knows, could be what HALO pc should have been. and better!

And then the rest of the unknown european crpgs I haven't heard of yet (ie Divine Divinity and Gothic like)

etc

[Lee Johnson]

If Final Fantasy XII is released in North America this year, I will EAT MY HAT!

[tronnc]

OK heres the games I plan on buying as soon as they are available.

Rome: Total War (can't believe no one have mentioned this yet)

Doom3

Half Life 2

Vietcong: Fist Alpha expansion


Heres the list of games Im anticipating but won't pickup until I hear from people on how good they are and maybecheck out some reviews, hopefully a demo too.

Farcry

Stalker

World of Warcraft

Tribes: Vengence

Hitman 3

Battlefield: Vietnam

[DennyA]

Saw a beta of The Sims 2 running at the Dell booth at CES. I have to admit, it looks pretty darned cool.

[Old Man Gravy]

Most anticipated: Duke Nukem Fourever (yes, I'm holding out hope that it'll come out this year)

Most dreaded: Thief 3


Note: the x factor is 'console-port'... DN4 is in the most anticipated column because I'm hoping it won't be fzcked over to appeal to the console crowd. Thief 3 is in the most dreaded column because I'm assuming it will be the next in a great game series that Warren will fzck over to appeal to said twitchy crowd, a la Invisible War.

Most yawn-inducing: SimHL2Doom3WoW and all the other cookie cutter bug hunt FPSers, ridiculous smack-talk MMORPGs, Horde-building real-time "strategy" games, and silly reality simulators that all use the next shiny gizmo to try to set themselves apart.

[John Reynolds]

I don't think I have a single most anticipated title but the ones I'm definitely looking forward to are:

Doom 3
Half-life 2
Gothic 3 (?)
UT2k4
EQ2
Rome: Total War
Freedom Force 2
Tribes: Vengeance
Painkiller
Vampire

Most dreaded is, without a doubt, Thief 3. After the train wreck that was DX2, I have almost zero hopes for Thief 3 for its graphics, controls, or gameplay.

[Mike Cathcart]

If Final Fantasy XII is released in North America this year, I will EAT MY HAT!
Hey Lee, think you could buy me a copy in addition to the one you're getting Dave this December?

[Charles]

There is a sad lack of Beyond Divinity being referenced in this thread.

[curst]

Beyond Divinity should RAWK!!!!

Assuming it isn't pathetically buggy.

[Jason McMaster]

The Gothic 2 Expansion is a big one for me as well, Gothic 3 is 2005 I think.

[Jason McMaster]

Jesus. Also, Jason, if it's out before August I'll buy you a copy. But like in three years, when it's a Platinum Hit.

SCORE!!! hey wait...

[Drunkagain]

Most anticipated,

Doom 3
Half-Life 2
Stalker
Silent Storm
Splinter Cell 2
Halo 2
Fable Metroid Prime 2
Far Cry
Warlords Battlecry 3

Interested but will wait for reviews,

Painkiller
Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault
Vampire Bloodlines

Nothing I'm really dreading.

[Kevin Grey]

Most anticipated: Duke Nukem Fourever (yes, I'm holding out hope that it'll come out this year)


I'm fairly certain that Take 2 said in their last conference call that it wouldn't be out until 2005.

[Timemaster Tim]

Most anticipated: Duke Nukem Fourever (yes, I'm holding out hope that it'll come out this year)


I'm fairly certain that Take 2 said in their last conference call that it wouldn't be out until 2005.

Since when did Take 2 ever know the release date? Even 3DR don't seem to know.

[Lunch of Kong]

I'm still waiting for Deus Ex 2.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

I'm pretty out of touch with upcoming stuff, and after being burned by so many titles last year...

I am anticipating Rome:Total War and Sims 2.

Troy

[Tyrion Lannister]

Thief 3 and Doom 3 - both for the gameplay experiences, not the tech.

DN4 and Metroid 2 if they get done this year. Metroid 2 in particular is looking very sweet.

[Chris Nahr]

Well, well, well, my little droogies...

Half-Life 2 and Doom 3, assuming I can bring myself to buy a new video card. (GeForce FX 5600? Hmmm...)

Thief 3. Yeah, I know about DX:IW, but how many Thief-style games are there? Exactly.

Any sequels/expansions to Rise of Nations, Zelda, Metroid Prime.

Painkiller and Vampire look interesting, I'll probably get them.

The Star Wars RTS will require extended scrutiny, and Halo 2 will require an Xbox which I don't have. Yet. How about a price cut to below €100, Microsoft?

[Greedo]

Two that I am anticipating, and haven't seen mentioned, are:

- Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance II (next week)

- Battlefield: Vietnam

Edit: Sorry tronnc. You did mention BF: Vietnam

[Chris Nahr]

Two that I am anticipating, and haven't seen mentioned, are:

- Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance II (next week)

Oh, absolutely! I'm getting that as well, hope the delay for the European release won't be too long. Also, I hope there will be many barmaids with realistically jiggly boobs.

[Lee Johnson]

If Final Fantasy XII is released in North America this year, I will EAT MY HAT!
Hey Lee, think you could buy me a copy in addition to the one you're getting Dave this December?
Where's my payoff in that? You should be offering to buy me my copy when it comes out next year. ;)

[olaf]

WoW would be my most anticipated game at this point. I sure hope it makes 2004.

Fable looks great from everything I have read. But, it sounds too good to be true, the scope just seems incredibly ambitious. And come on its a PM game...so it probably is too good to be true. If this is a great game, I will be shocked.

I am pretty excited for Kohan2 and WBC3. Less so for WBC though, because Warlords 4 was such a letdown.

olaf

[Peter Frazier]

Soldner-Secret Wars- a cross between BF1942 and Operation Flashpoint. With destructable everything. Due in a month or two. Apparently it requires a very beefy machine.
And the latest release for the Forgotten Hope mode for BF1942. Due in a week or two or three.

[Mike Cathcart]

Where's my payoff in that? You should be offering to buy me my copy when it comes out next year. ;)
Sure, we'll chip in and buy you a copy when it comes out next year. Expect it to be delivered by a fairy riding a unicorn with a copy of DNF in his other hand.

Also, Resident Evil 4! Looks like the date has been changed from "200X" to "2004".

[extarbags]

Anticipating:

Metroid: Zero Mission
River City Ransom EX
Painkiller
Guilty Gear Isuka
Dragon Warrior VIII
Gradius V
Serious Sam 2, which probably won't come out

Dreading, in so far as one can dread a game that they aren't going to play:

Half Life 2
Doom 3
Final Fantasy XII
MGS: Twin Snakes
The Sims 2

[Xemu]

GTA: San Andreas.

Are there even other games coming out this year besides that? :)

[extarbags]

GTA: San Andreas.

Are there even other games coming out this year besides that? :)

Actually, I need to add something to my dreading list...

[Lee Johnson]

Sure, we'll chip in and buy you a copy when it comes out next year. Expect it to be delivered by a fairy riding a unicorn with a copy of DNF in his other hand.
WOW! That will be so great! :D

[tromik]

Killzone
Pandora Tomorrow
Metal Gear Solid 3
Hitman 3
Uh, Killzone?

[BobJustBob]

And come on its a PM game...
No it's not.

Anticipated games... I'd say I'm curious about Fable even though it's been considerably reduced in scope from the initial concept.
HL2, of course. Especially since it's free.
The Movies. Now that one is a PM game, and it sounds great.
The new GTA game.
The new Monkey Ball game.

[Greedo]

A few more I forgot:

- Star Ocean: Till The End Of Time
- Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow
- Front Mission 4 (hopefully in 2004)

[Theodore Rex DX]

Half Life 2
GTA : San Andreas
Psychonauts
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2
Samurai Showdown V
River City Ransom EX
Gregory Horror Show
Katamari Damacy

Dreading:

Dororo - Blood Will Tell. I really like the story, but the game looks like a generic slash 'em up and that's a little sad.
Pikmin 2 - I really wanted to like the first one, but it wasn't fun to play. I'm still interested in 2, because it's ridiculously cute.

[extarbags]

Samurai Showdown V

That was a 2003 game.

[Theodore Rex DX]

But it's going to get a western console release in '04, right? Please say yes.

[extarbags]

But it's going to get a western console release in '04, right? Please say yes.

I've already said what I'd like: a PS2 release with high-res sprites and online play.

What will really happen is this: they'll port it or not based on how well KOF 2k/2k1 and SvC: Chaos sell. Both of those are half-assed low-res ports. Obviously, the KOF twofer consists of a four year old game bundled with a three year old game. SvC: Chaos consists of every unartistic, unelegant, brute force fighting game you'd never expect from SNK, bundled with crap. So you tell me.

Also, this: if they do actually port SSV, it'll get the same half-assed release all of their games get, which is why they're in so much trouble. Emulating games that you can buy readily is wrong, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't make an effort to top the emulated experience, which currently runs Neo games at 1280x1024 with your choice of 30 graphical filters and bundled, if buggy, internet multiplayer. SNK needs to get their ass in gear if they actually want to make the jump. Don't get me wrong, I love the Neo to death and it's aged incredibly well. It's remarkable that games on it look about ten years newer than the system is... but that still means they look five years old.

[Tyjenks]

Most Anticipated/Most Dreaded

Playboy: The Mansion (www.arushgames.com/games/playboy/)

Majesty + Ladeez =

a. Nudilicious fun
b. Trainwreck of monumental proportions
c. Hot chicks with uninspired sim-ish gameplay

[extarbags]

Most Anticipated/Most Dreaded

Playboy: The Mansion (www.arushgames.com/games/playboy/)

Majesty + Ladeez =

a. Nudilicious fun
b. Trainwreck of monumental proportions
c. Hot chicks with uninspired sim-ish gameplay

Wow, I didn't know there was a date for that. It lets you design covers and post them online... how cool is that? I've actually been looking forward to P:TM since I first heard about it.... add it to my list.

[Tyjenks]

It has all the earmarks of a decent branded title, but soooooo many developers seem to hedge their bets when making branded games. I imagine it is because too many fingers are in the pot and too many needs have to be catered to resulting in any original gameplay elements getting watered down or removed enntirely.

If ARush and Cyberlore make it too much like an actual game, the casual gamer will not pick it up. This one has the added weight of needing to appeal to your average Joe/Josephine who would buy it only to pleasure himself/herself to pixelated porn. Those folks will not want to work for the nudity.

I can forsee a game which is dumbed down to keeping you busy with some silly task and you are then rewarded with one boob. I just don't want it to play like Playboy: Myst Mansion.

[extarbags]

I thought that when it was announced (at E3 2003, I think), they said there wasn't going to be any nudity.

[Ephraim]

I guess the big two that I'm kinda looking forward to are World of Warcraft (I need a MMORPG to replace SB but it worries me that we haven't heard any details on WoW's PvP features) and Fable (PM is a genius, but please god, let this game be as fun as B&W wasn't).

Those two out of the way, I am still VERY interested in playing Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox, it looks quite promising and fun -- haven't seen it mentioned on anyone's list yet and it's apparently now due to ship in Feb. 2004... Some brainless hot ninja action might suit me just fine. Anyone else looking forward to this title?

/Eph

[Tyjenks]

I thought that when it was announced (at E3 2003, I think), they said there wasn't going to be any nudity.

I was just scanning the website forums and a December post stated that it was going to be "M" rated and definitely contain tastefully done female portraits (my words).

EDIT:

The rating we'll be shooting for us "M", not AO.

Nudity, at least in the PC version, is almost assured. How much is still to be determined. The CNN article covers this topic pretty well - http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/12/commentary/game_over/e3_playboy/

EDIT part II:

Let me assure you, the "nude" models I have looking at are great... serioulsy, Cyberlore has done them up extremely well.

[extarbags]

I thought that when it was announced (at E3 2003, I think), they said there wasn't going to be any nudity.

I was just scanning the website forums and a December post stated that it was going to be "M" rated and definitely contain tastefully done female portraits (my words).

All the better. I'm just glad it's still coming out. When they announced it they didn't have much more than the basic concept and the title, and an approximate release date two years away. I didn't think it would make it.

[Mike Cathcart]

I am still VERY interested in playing Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox, it looks quite promising and fun -- haven't seen it mentioned on anyone's list yet
It wasn't on my list because I don't trust Team Ninja to make a game that's half as fun as it looks (and NG does look pretty) and because Ryu looks like Sam Fisher threw up on him (but, you know, rendered by a real nice engine). So I'm not holding my breath. If the reviews are good I'll check it out, though.

[Theodore Rex DX]

That bothers me a little too. People cast doubt on Fable because of the Molyneaux hype legacy (which extends as far back as Black and White and not before, as far as I can tell) but then go on to slobber over Ninja Gaiden - a game produced by what has to be one of the most reprehensible development teams in the industry.
I don't doubt that Ninja Gaiden will be a good enough game, but the starry-eyed positivity surrounding it is kind of annoying. Something isn't right when you see people waxing retarded about how great the textures are in the sewer level.

EDIT:

Is complaining about sewer levels a cliche now too?

[Ch. Hasslbauer]

People cast doubt on Fable because of the Molyneaux hype legacy (which extends as far back as Black and White and not before, as far as I can tell){...}

I can't take this no more. This... legend of Peter Molyneux the big game innovator genius obviously has gone rampant.

Back about 10 years ago PM made a game named Populous. It was something completely new, well polished and simply a load of fun. Way to go PM!

What happened then? He re-programmed the same game under the names Populous 2, Warmonger, Populous 3, and last Black and White. In between he engineered the lukewarm economy strategy title Theme Park, which he now re-releases with a different scenario under The Movies. Is there something I forget?

What PM does really well is self-promotion. If he should be famous for anything it should be for being the perfect human self-marketing machine.

[Theodore Rex DX]

He was also executive producer on Magic Carpet, and was involved in Syndicate Wars in some capacity - which has to count for something. I don't think he was involved in Populous 3. Anyway, I'm not here to stick up for Molyneux. The man is an ass. I'm just saying Team Ninja really, really suck and I felt a little perspective was in order. If that means I had to put PM in a positive light, so fucking be it. Rehashing Populous is infinitely preferable to rehashing Dead or Alive. And that's all I'm saying.

[Kalle]

Being involved with Syndicate Wars counts aginst him, IMO. Maybe I'd have a different opinion about the game had it not been the sequel to Syndicate and thus having something to live up to, but as it is, it was a miserable sequel.

[Ephraim]

Peter Molyneux was also involved with Dungeon Keeper, which was also pretty unique and worth playing. So, I'd add that to a list of his successes...

And to be fair and expose my bias, I saw his GDC presentation on B&W and was completely blown away. I hyped the game to all my friends and we all looked forward to it. When it finally arrived, with its insanely long save times (apparently one of the things crammed in at the last minute) and its almost total lack of 'fun factor'... Well, I underwent a barrage of ridicule. I'm still willing to cut him some slack, due to the joys of Populous and Dungeon Keeper, but I'm looking at Fable a bit more sceptically. I will not be pre-ordering, and many reviews will be considered before a purchase decision is made.

As for Team Ninja, I enjoyed DOA 2 on my PS2 very much, though it was obviously very much part of the first generation of PS2 titles. It was a great 'party game' and I'm hoping for something similar from Ninja Gaiden. If it's just lots of smooth, fun flipping out and cutting off heads ninja-packed deliciousness then I'll walk away satisfied. I don't think it's going to herald any great breakthrough in gaming, particularly not with what I'm hearing about its Xbox Live support (ooh, uploading your best time, whoop de doo!), but I still have lots of hope that it's going to be a fun party game where everyone wants their shot at the gamepad.

/Eph

[John Reynolds]

PM's overhype tendencies go well back to '95 or even earlier. The man flat-out lied about features that were supposed to be in the original Dungeon Keeper, and blatantly lied about the capabilities of the 3D engine Bullfrog was writing for The Indestructibles.

[Dave Long]

The Dead or Alive games are so annoying because they so blatantly ripped off Virtua Fighter to create the series. Without the bouncy tits, the game would have disappeared without a trace years ago.

Never doubt the power of boobs.

--Dave

[Ben Sones]

What happened then? He re-programmed the same game under the names Populous 2, Warmonger, Populous 3, and last Black and White. In between he engineered the lukewarm economy strategy title Theme Park, which he now re-releases with a different scenario under The Movies. Is there something I forget?

Quite a lot, actually. He also worked on the wonderful Magic Carpet games, Syndicate, and Dungeon Keeper. Between those and Populous, he has a greater assortment of great, innovative games under his belt than most people in this industry. And Fable looks to be a completely new sort of thing for him, too. He's had a few average games as well, and one real flop. But that's what happens when you try new things.

Re: your list: I have no idea what Warmonger is. You might be thinking of Powermonger, which was made by Bullfrog. Molyneux was not involved with that game in any way, as far as I know. Nor was he involved with Populous 3 (actually called Populous: The Beginning), which was developed after he left Bullfrog. And I don't know if you have played Theme Park or seen the Movies, but I suspect not based on your statement that the one is a clone of the other. These two games are almost nothing alike, aside from the fact that both involve managing a business.

PM's overhype tendencies go well back to '95 or even earlier. The man flat-out lied about features that were supposed to be in the original Dungeon Keeper, and blatantly lied about the capabilities of the 3D engine Bullfrog was writing for The Indestructibles.

This is why developers are so reluctant to talk about games in development any more. I hate to break it to you, but just about every game you've ever played has gone through the same sort of feature changes. That's just how game development works. Often a design doesn't work the way you thought it would, or at all. Then you can either release a flawed game, change the features, or scrap the project. All three happen with regularity; unlike yourself, I prefer the latter two options. The only time this becomes a problem is when fans think that a developer is making some sort of sacred promise every time he chats about his ideas. Which is absurd, but unfortunately it does happen. The net result is that game developers no longer want to publically discuss design ideas, which is a shame.

[Creole Ned]

I think the main problem with Molyneux is that he has grand ideas that are that -- ideas -- but he makes them sound as if their inclusion in a game is an assured thing. I wouldn't say he lies, really, he just thinks out loud and presents his musings in a way that makes them sound like they are already bullet points on the back of a game box.

I'm not super-excited about any games but these are the ones I'm anticipating and will likely pick up without any word of mouth:

Tribes: Vengeance
Half-Life 2
Doom 3
Halo 2 (for Xbox, unless I hear that the PC version is due 4-6 months later this time)
Serious Sam 2
Unreal Tournament 2004

Can you tell I'm an FPS whore? :)

I'm leaving off the next GTA game since I figure it will be PS2-only until 2005.

I'll probably have a look at The Sims 2, Painkiller, Stalker, Soldner and a few others based on demos and reviews. I don't even know what notable strategy or RPG titles are coming out this year.

Games I will not be anticipating:

Anything with a freaking Garand in it. All the superlatives in the world will not convince me to pick up another WWII/modern war FPS unless it offers something seriously new (physics that impact actual gameplay, for example).

[John Reynolds]

I used to have the PC Gamer interview from around May of '95 wherein Molyneux specifically talked about how good their in-house 3D engine was looking for The Indestructibles and how it was amazing to push a skyscraper over and watch it take out other buildings as it collapsed. Several years later one of Bullfrog's programmers admitted that it was all a lie, that Molyneux was fabricating an engine that didn't (and, frankly with the hardware at the time, couldn't) exist.

I also clearly remember another printed interview with Molyneux in January of '97 wherein he talked about how players would be able to create their own Dungeon Keeper heroes, save them on a floppy, and take them with them to different LAN parties, trying them against different human Keepers and their lairs. That was a paltry 5 months before the game launched, which means its design was most definitely locked down and whether or not that feature was working had to have been clearly known at that point in time.

I understand designers not wanting to be too forthcoming with their gaming audience, but a simple "we hope to have this feature in the finished game" as opposed to "it's so awesome to see these skyscrapers collapsing" makes the difference between a person discussing his vision and another flat-out lying to his eager audience.

So, IMO, anyone who takes anything that Molyneux says about a forthcoming game with a large grain of salt is merely being prudent. The man clearly has a history of overhyping his games.

[Bub, Andrew]

The Dungeon Keeper box claimed you could "play as the heroes and invade your own dungeon". Which you couldn't. This has little to do with Molyneaux but, well, y'know... you couldn't. They never even patched that in.

[Jason McCullough]

Being involved with Syndicate Wars counts aginst him, IMO. Maybe I'd have a different opinion about the game had it not been the sequel to Syndicate and thus having something to live up to, but as it is, it was a miserable sequel.

WHOA WHOA WHOA. How dare you defame that game! You could drop buildings on people, spin around in crowds with the flamethrower, cram your persuaded people in a train and then blow it up, etc. etc.

[Gendal]

Sudeki just flying under everybodies radar? I have more hope for it than Fable.


http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/index.html

[Supertanker]

Mr. Molyneux's mastery of the hype machine means you can't even trust reviews of his games anymore. All those happy shiny Black & White reviews showed me that plenty of reviewers can get sucked in. Now you have to wait for the word of mouth to be good before buying. It will be interesting to see if reviewers apply an extra-critical eye to his games in the future.

[Kalle]

Being involved with Syndicate Wars counts aginst him, IMO. Maybe I'd have a different opinion about the game had it not been the sequel to Syndicate and thus having something to live up to, but as it is, it was a miserable sequel.

WHOA WHOA WHOA. How dare you defame that game! You could drop buildings on people, spin around in crowds with the flamethrower, cram your persuaded people in a train and then blow it up, etc. etc.

So what? The original is still ten times better. Hell, the original even looks better. I'll take clean 2d graphics over crappy 3d graphics any day.

[RepoMan]

Fuck Mr. Molyneux. I haven't posted MY list yet! (shows what I get for only reading Qt3 every other day....)

Definites:
Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow (no one's mentioned this yet?! how could it be???)
Kohan 2 (yeah, baby)
Beyond Divinity (beyond yeah, baby)
Doom 3 (just because... I still remember downloading 8mb Doom shareware the day it hit the internet... at 14.4k... must keep the faith!)
Half-Life 2 (I still have hope)
Halo 2 (no-brainer!)
Full Spectrum Warrior (unless it's a total flop)Maybes:
Ninja Gaiden (yeah, yeah, but if it's wallrunning ninja fu and the combat is really good, I'll be happy)
Far Cry (hype-o-rama, but who knows? might be cool)
Painkiller (mindless joy!)Dread:
Why would I bother listing them? I already ignore 95% (or more?) of the games out there....

Games that have already shipped that I haven't even bought yet:Zelda: Wind Waker (gotta try it)
Metroid Prime (ditto)
Beyond Good & Evil (many raves, cheap....)Games I already *own* that I haven't even *played* yet:
CMBB
Deus Ex 2: Invisible War
Kohan: Ahriman's Gift
Undying (might not bother with this one)
Morrowind + Tribunal
Shogun (for $5? how can you beat it?)
Independence War 2 ($10 special)Games I *have* started but haven't *finished* yet:
Fallout: Tactics
NOLF 2
Warcraft 3
Waaaaauuuugggghhhhhh!!!!

I wonder what the odds are that a second PoP game from Team PoP will ship in 2004??? If it did, I'd buy it in a nanosecond. Just finished Sands of Time last night... one of the best endings I can *ever* remember. Jordan Mechner, you are my hero.....

Thank you so very much for listening.
Cheers!
Rob

[Jazar]

There's a reason why no one has posted Splinter Cell :P

Anyways my list is short:

PC - Half Life 2: From what I've seen (*cough*), this one has great potential to meet my expectations from the original.

GC - Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes - If only for the cinematic quality that this game will provide. My jaw droppeth.

XBOX - Halo 2: I'm still waiting for the XBL killer app. Hopefully this will be it as I love playing Halo live on XBC. Fat chance we'll see it before end of this year though.

PS2 - MGS3. Yes I like MGS. Shoot me. But please just wait till I'm done listening to my codec.

I'll believe the excellence of Fable when I see it. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes another year at least before release though.

[Creole Ned]

Drunkagain mentioned Splinter Cell 2 on page one of the thread. :)

I've just recently grabbed the original, will see if it's as great or infuriating as peoople say. Most seem to feel it's one or the other.

[Mike Cathcart]

Sudeki just flying under everybodies radar? I have more hope for it than Fable.
Same here. Knew I forgot some stuff on my list.

[Dave Long]

The developers of Sudeki don't have a great track record. I think it's safe to be very leery of that game.

http://www.climax.co.uk

MotoGP is their claim to fame.

--Dave

[Mike Cathcart]

You're just bitter because Gamespot gave Moto GP 2 best driving game instead of F-Zero.

Speaking of, add F-Zero: Legend of Falcon to my list.

[Tyjenks]

Even Tyler.

Thanks Cathcart. I think I am going to tear up.

I'm still looking forward to Silent Storm as well. Even though it seems the rest of the planet has played it.

[kenhotlanta]

I'm looking forward to "Transport Giant" by JoWooD, which could be considered a sequel to "Transport Tycoon Deluxe". (Does anyone remember the official sequel to TTD: "CEO" with James Coburn on the box and in the game? A total disaster as I recall.)

[kenhotlanta]

Actually "CEO" was a sequel to "A-Train", a terrific railroad builder. You could go to bed, let that game run all night, and get up the next morning and see how your cities had grown and how much money you made in order to expand your empire. A-Train also had a remarkable soundtrack for it's day.
Anyway, CEO still sucked.

[Ch. Hasslbauer]

He was also executive producer on Magic Carpet, and was involved in Syndicate Wars in some capacity - which has to count for something. I don't think he was involved in Populous 3.
Yeah, in my urge for bringing hype machine Peter Molyneux to justice I didn't do any research. Right, Magic Carpet really was a blast. I'll grant that.
Populous 3 wasn't designed by PM. Granted, too. That was a little stupid of me.
But calling Syndicate (or even Syndicate Wars) a masterpiece would be nonsense. Never will I call a game well done that I was able to play through simply by switching my (wo)men to "shoot at will" every time an enemy was near. That game's system was simply ridiculous, even more simplistic than Diablo's. (Where I at least had to click on the enemies I wanted to kill)

Peter Molyneux was also involved with Dungeon Keeper, which was also pretty unique and worth playing. So, I'd add that to a list of his successes...
How distressing, I forgot this one, too...
Like some people told before, Dungeon Keeper was not the masterpiece that PM wanted to sell to the public.
I found it very repetitive and clumsily designed, and it had more than a few "Theme Park" ingredients. Not to forget the shitty first person playing feature. What did you think about the heroes that wouldn't take your dungeon's entry but dig through the earth? Didn't that look like a makeshift solution for a serious design flaw? (The flaw being, it would have been too easy to kill heroes having to enter through a bottleneck.)
I couldn't get myself to work through all the levels. Never played it through.

Re: your list: I have no idea what Warmonger is. You might be thinking of Powermonger, which was made by Bullfrog. Molyneux was not involved with that game in any way, as far as I know.
And, yes, Powermonger it was. Another one in row of my faults. :P
But according to http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Powermonger PM was the designer.

about Theme Park and The Movies:
These two games are almost nothing alike, aside from the fact that both involve managing a business.
We'll see.

Mr. Molyneux's mastery of the hype machine means you can't even trust reviews of his games anymore. All those happy shiny Black & White reviews showed me that plenty of reviewers can get sucked in. Now you have to wait for the word of mouth to be good before buying.
Thanks Mr. Supertanker. You're naming the reason why I find it so hard to just ignore the hype master.

Leaving aside all the wrong statements I made ( :? ) the point seems valid. Peter Molyneux is an evil master of self advertisement and perhaps would be a worthwhile game designer if he spent half the time on game designing that he spends on giving those guru like interviews and babbling about fantastically innovative features in his repetitive boring games.

Ha! Didn't I tell ya?!

Sorry for the threadnapping. Back to lists.

Edit: I DO know the plural of hero. I just don't use it in public...

[dannimal]

Didn't that look like a makeshift solution for a serious design flaw? (Flaw: Would have been too easy to kill hero's having to enter through a bottleneck.)


Makeshift? In game, doesn't it make sense? You're some powerful evil being, and you can pay "things" to dig for you as you build your lair. Heroes will eventually attack. I suppose you could call it a design flaw to plan for the hero to use the "entrance" only, because once players figure that out they just dump everything there.

But, in game (again), doesn't it make a lot of sense that a Hero looking to smite a blighting evil to realize that a frontal assault into terrible odds of survival doesn't make sense, so they would pay "things" to dig a new way in?

In other "scenarios" when someone wants to break into someplace to accomplish something (steal, defeat, assassinate...), do they go in the front door?

I'm not taking sides on the PM debate. I played B&W until it stopped being fun (World 4?), I played DK the same. I just thought that heroes busting in at unexpected points made natural sense.

[Ben Sones]

And, yes, Powermonger it was. Another one in row of my faults. :P
But according to http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Powermonger PM was the designer.

Yes, you are correct, and I was mistaken. I had forgotten that Molyneux had anything to do with Powermonger, but he did.

[Ch. Hasslbauer]

Makeshift? In game, doesn't it make sense? You're some powerful evil being, and you can pay "things" to dig for you as you build your lair. Heroes will eventually attack. I suppose you could call it a design flaw to plan for the hero to use the "entrance" only, because once players figure that out they just dump everything there.Yeah, but originally Dungeon Master was about the old fantasy hack and slash deal, only you were taking the other side this time.
But when you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and planning to raid dungeon no. 136, it's not like:
Fighter: "Hey, Bob wants to collect my pub bill. We should head for the dungeon tomorrow."
Cleric: "Shit. I don't feel like patching you up twenty times in a row anytime soon."
Thief: "You will. The dungeon master will expect us and station all his demons and tons of traps at the entrance."
Cleric: "Know what? We will just dig our way into the inner chambers. 15 minutes in, 30 minutes of pillaging, and digging out in another 15 min. Why didn't we do this the last 135 times."

In the game, the heroes dig through the earth like breaststroke swimmers. That's ridiculous and quite an explicit deviation from the common dungeon slasher paradigm. It can't be anything but a makeshift circumvention of the player's ability to guard the entrance with all he got.

[Ben Sones]

In the game, the heroes dig through the earth like breaststroke swimmers. That's ridiculous and quite an explicit deviation from the common dungeon slasher paradigm. It can't be anything but a makeshift circumvention of the player's ability to guard the entrance with all he got.

Well, okay, but the whole concept was tongue-in-cheek. I mean, it's also not particularly realistic to build a dungeon with the sole purpose of defending it against treasure-seeking heroes, or to build it from the inside-out, or to manage evil monsters like employees at a cubicle farm. It was meant to be ridiculous.

That said, I didn't much care for the digging heroes either--not for thematic reasons, but simply because it made it difficult to prepare a defense beforehand. You couldn't know where they would come from, and inevitably had to resort to grabbing creatures with the Hand (and the game deserves kudos for that alone, BTW--every game needs to have the Hand of Evil) and dumping them in the trouble spot.

I still thought it was a damn fun game, though. The sequel was even better; I wish they were still making them, because there is still a lot of stuff they could do with that premise.

[Ch. Hasslbauer]

I find myself overruled and accept the majority decision. DK is a fun game.
So let's go back to trashing Peter Molyneux. Or what was this thread about? :wink:

[Chris Nahr]

(and the game deserves kudos for that alone, BTW--every game needs to have the Hand of Evil)

Ugh. Worst feature ever. Turned what could have been a strategy game into The Sims Underground. What's the point of designing your dungeon layout when you can just drop everyone anywhere?

[dannimal]

In P&P, how many times did the module have everything right at the entrance? You always fought through progressively bigger stuff until the big climactic battle.

[Ben Sones]

(and the game deserves kudos for that alone, BTW--every game needs to have the Hand of Evil)

Ugh. Worst feature ever. Turned what could have been a strategy game into The Sims Underground. What's the point of designing your dungeon layout when you can just drop everyone anywhere?

I wasn't refering to that feature. As I said, I didn't like the fact that you could just arbitrarily transport people to combat areas. I did like the ability to carry people to work spots, though, and I loved the ability to slap people around. That's the part that every game needs.

[dannimal]

To stay on topic, PM did include the bitch slapping floating hand in Black & White. Who didn't enjoy slapping their monkey when it pooped in the town square?

[curst]

WHOA WHOA WHOA. How dare you defame that game! You could drop buildings on people, spin around in crowds with the flamethrower, cram your persuaded people in a train and then blow it up, etc. etc.

So what? The original is still ten times better. Hell, the original even looks better. I'll take clean 2d graphics over crappy 3d graphics any day.

Boooooooooo. Syndicate Wars r00led. You're talking pure crazy talk here. You could wreak so much havoc in Syndicate Wars it wasn't funny - Jason was only barely scratching the surface.

SW also didn't suffer from the "mission fucking impossible" syndrome that plagued the final part of the original game.

[RichardC]

Syndicate wasn't too bad, except for the bastard Atlantic Accelerator.

Now, Syndicate: American Revolt - there was an expansion pack that could flash-fry diamonds.

[Jason McMaster]

I loved the Syndicate games and Dungeon Keeper.


Anyone have any confirmed date for the Gothic 2 expansion?