Unreasonable Senses of Entitlement in Youth, or WTF ADS SUX!

[MattKeil]

Browsing GameFAQs this evening, I noticed that the Poll of the Day is now "Sponsored by Knights of the Old Republic" and is all done up KotOR font style. New ad, no biggie, that part of the page was kind of dull, anyway.

Then I poked my head into the PotD message board, where several thousand teenagers were screaming about how ads and capitalism suck, and how CJayC (founder of GameFAQs) is a sell out, etc.

And after reading this post:

I do have a right to complain.
If you give someone something you have a compact with them not to **** it up. When you give someone a good website, then add loads of ads, then you have taken somehting away from them.
Theft.

I couldn't help but wonder exactly where this insane sense of entitlement that seems to run so rampant in the kids today came from. I mean, read that post. This person actually seems to believe that the guy running the 100% free site owes HIM something solely on the basis that the site is, in fact, free.

It reads like absolute insanity to me. Am I alone in thinking this? Have I gone over to the side of the capitalist pigs and become unable to perceive the evils of ad placement?

[Mark Asher]

Yes, it's stupid, but the Internet tends to foster communities, which in turn foster a sense of ownership, and when this sense of ownership is yanked away it makes some people upset. In it's own way, the reaction is perfectly logical.

[Jobe]

Logical?

[Wholly Schmidt]

I feel the same way when I see that stuff, but I can't tell if kids are just always like that at that age or if "kids these days" are getting worse. Also, these are internet kids, a horrible, horrible subset of reality.

Gamefaqs has always had ridiculously juvenile readers/posters on its message boards. Maybe all of the message boards are like that though, I only frequent a few others that are of a somewhat selective nature (i.e. no one knows about them) like this place.

[Jon R.]

Depends on the case, usually. If it's something where the webmaster is trying to cram uninteresting and/or unrelated ads down the throats of the viewers on some sort of "Give back to the site" guilt trip, there's going to be some justifiable backlash. Or in the case of a site that greets you with a big honking ad that does nothing but make less room for what you went there for (Thanks, shacknews), people are going to be a little irritated.

That ad isn't encroaching on news items or anything, so my first reaction to hearing about their complaints is "God damn, man. It's GameFAQs. Not a place known for attracting the intelligensia of the gaming community".

Sometimes though, people are just sick of seeing insipid ads in the most ridiculous places. Again, the ad isn't that intrusive, but does KotOR really need another advertisement at a place where it's the #1 XBox FAQ, #4 XBox messageboard, #3 PC FAQ, #7 PC messageboard, and in the top 10 of ALL FAQs there?

[Sean Tudor]

Has anyone ever tried to argue with a teenager ? Logic plays no part at all. :roll:

[Ben Sones]

Yes, it's stupid, but the Internet tends to foster communities, which in turn foster a sense of ownership, and when this sense of ownership is yanked away it makes some people upset. In it's own way, the reaction is perfectly logical.

It has a certain internal logic, but it's far from reasonable. A game website is not an entitlement--it's a free service that (if they like the site in question) they should be thankful for. And they should click on a few of those ads they hate so much, if they really want the site to stay around.

Mark, if you and Tom want to dress up the Qt3 front page with Animal Crossing fonts and banners, I won't hold it against you.

[Yuki Katase]

Mark, if you and Tom want to dress up the Qt3 front page with Animal Crossing fonts and banners, I won't hold it against you.
However, please go easy on the fish-name puns. "See? Bass!"

[DrCrypt]

A game website is not an entitlement--it's a free service that (if they like the site in question) they should be thankful for.
While I hate the whiny sense of entitlement of today's mouth breathing crater faces as much as anyone, this is just as crappy of an attitude to take. When I go a website, I'm usually not getting entertainment for free, any more than I am getting television or radio for free: I am paying for these services by exposing myself to advertising. How much advertising I am willing to deal with in order to continue visiting a site is basically analogous to how much money I am willing to pay for a product. If "The Simpsons" reduced the running time of each show by 50% in order to put in that many more advertisements, I wouldn't watch it anymore. If enough people followed suit, the advertisement space allotted would consequently have severely diminishing returns when translated into sales.

The same holds true with Internet advertising: everyone who comes to a site that has ads on it is a consumer of that site and directly inputs into how much money it makes. Figuring out how much your consumers are willing to pay for your site is the sweetspot to hit for most webmasters, but it doesn't help anyone pretending you aren't in some symbiotic relationship with those same punk kids cussing you out in the forums when you raise the price more than they are willing to pay... let alone getting all prissy and deciding that they owe you anymore than you owe them.

[Jason McCullough]

Entitlement, shmitelement - they're pissed because it's ruining the "outsider authenticity" of the experience.

[dwinn]

Then I poked my head into the PotD message board

See, that's where you went wrong. :)

I have no idea what to do about the culture of entitlement in kids. The non-parent curmudgeon in me seems to think more whoopins are in order.

[Jakub]

Crypt, seriously, this isn't 2000 when websites are burning stacks of $1s and $5s to make room for the Benjamins. If you think any page designer or site owner actually wants to put a 10th ad onto a page, you're fit for the looney bin.

[DrCrypt]

Crypt, seriously, this isn't 2000 when websites are burning stacks of $1s and $5s to make room for the Benjamins. If you think any page designer or site owner actually wants to put a 10th ad onto a page, you're fit for the looney bin.
I'm not sure how this is a response to anything I wrote at all, which was less an accusation or criticism of webmasters as a frank comment discussing the difficulties they are facing in today's market, but if you want to take it as a criticism - boo fucking hoo for you. Sorry running yet another website in the oversaturated video game niche isn't a license to print cash anymore - and, frankly, everyone with any business sense knew that the year 2000 web site environment was the untenable result of some unsavvy idealism anyway. Get another job if you don't want to place that 10th ad so fucking bad. Otherwise, try to understand the fact that while you might decide you have to place that 10th ad, more than a few of your readers are going to also decide they do not have to be exposed to it anymore and they have a right to be alienated by them, although not necessarily to complain. Every time a Firing Squad page loads on my computer, those ads hitting my retinas means I've paid my due even if I don't click on them, and it is perfectly reasonable for me deciding that the annoyance of being exposed to that level of commercialism is just too damn expensive for the entertainment/enjoyment I'm getting out of that website. Doing the balancing act between an acceptable amount of advertisement and quality of content is your chosen job - I'm not going to smear ashes on my face and wail in sack cloth because you chose one career over another with just as many difficulties.

[Jakub]

Your point is that webmasters try to find some sort of balance between ads and content. Well, that balance has been found and you apparently don't like it - so stop crying about it.

Not to mention your totally inane point about "pretending not to know you're in a symbiotic relationship". Just how willing to explore the depths of ignorance are you?

[Menzo]

The problem is thus:

Kids are stupid. And what's worse, they think they're smarter than adults.

Those two facts cause a lot of problems, and is probably one of the root causes of the sense of entitlement kids have today (though it's probably they always had a sense of entitlement, just about different stuff).

[DrCrypt]

Nice comeback there, Jakub - its pointless indignation almost covered up for your hysterical gut misinterpretation to my first post. Add 5,000 rambling words in dire need of a competent editing and, I guess, the "ten ads per page" that are the "perfect balance" between commercialization and 5,000 rambling words in dire need of a competent editing and maybe you'll be up to the editorial standards of your average Firing Squad editorial!

[Jakub]

Great counter-argument there. Too bad you couldn't come up with any more blazes of Cryptian insight.

However, I greatly look forward to seeing you launch DrCryptsSite.com with your brand-new, hottest-ever topic that's sure to drown out the dying, giant gaming websites with... whatever. Of course, the fact that you don't have any compelling content will be completely overshadowed by the love letters that users send to you after they realize you have but one banner, which makes them so eager to run to a one-ad site as compared to a five-ad, the pageview*ad sum will be greater than those dastardly hardware sites who dare run up to eight ads per page while attracting half a million unique users, among them 100,000 registered, per month.

[XPav]

I feel the same way when I see that stuff, but I can't tell if kids are just always like that at that age or if "kids these days" are getting worse. Also, these are internet kids, a horrible, horrible subset of reality.
I wholly agree. I can't think of any obvious parallels between the "internet community" and anything that I had when growing up, so perhaps this is just a new face of the usual "teenagers are mostly idiots" idea.

For some other funny video game forum, stuff, check this (www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1741) out.

Gamefaqs has always had ridiculously juvenile readers/posters on its message boards. Maybe all of the message boards are like that though, I only frequent a few others that are of a somewhat selective nature (i.e. no one knows about them) like this place.
I think QT3 is like the MASK base -- the one behind the abandoned gas station in the mountain.

[DrCrypt]

I feel like I am the lone starfighter that just caused the Death Star (www.1-toy.com/Hasbro-Star-Wars---25th-Anniversary-Han-Solo-and-Chewbacca-Death-Star-Escape---Deluxe-Boxed-Set.asp) to supernova (www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6305922675/qid=1070999108//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl74/102-1786276-7556901?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846), only this Death Star was comprised almost entirely of Jakub's (www.firingsquad.com) various complexes and insecurities. Also, instead of a Force-driven torpedo (www.dasboot.com), all it took was one post loaded with uncritical observations about the web master's (www.lib.ru/BULGAKOW/master_engl.txt) plight straight down Jakub's hypersensitive ocular shaft. But that "DrCryptSite.com" retort? When someone cribs a response from the note of impotent (www.herbalviagra.com) revenge fantasy they once wrote to their first ex-girlfriend (www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004SAWN/ref=ase_hithaven/002-3106296-4045654?v=glance&s=music) ("Someday I hope you love someone who breaks up with you! Then you'll know how I feel!"), jeez - speaking as a certain type of verbal (www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312206577/qid=1070999636//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i11_xgl14/002-3106296-4045654?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) sadist (www.foxsearchlight.com/quills/), it just makes you glow (www.timelesstrinkets.com/Other/Images/GloWormJackInBox.jpg) inside.

(Perfect balance between content and 10 ads per page delicately struck in eager anticipation of future criticisms! Hey, John, how's your mom? - ed. (www.madmagazine.com))

[Jakub]

Crypt, you haven't made a single valid point in this thread. No, wait, you did have that great insight about having to strike a balance between ads and content, which, you know, has been a fact of life since the first ad appeared in a newspaper centuries ago.

Now you presume to tell me I'm upset or have been somehow hit deep by your ... logic ... ? Sure bud. Keep saying it and maybe you can convince even yourself.

FYI

The reason I replied to your original with such vehemence was because it was the single most idiotic post in this thread or any thread in quite a while, and I should like to discourage such further practice. Instead, you stand by that stillborn leper of an argument and then go off thinking you've scored some sort of disabling hit against my fragile, porcelain ego. Which is fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but please, don't inflict any more of your insights on this community.

Anyway, this is really taking the form of a flamewar so I'll concede the field of battle and retire to my work.

[DrCrypt]

I think I'll let you have the last word, or 5,000 of them, if you so choose, Jakub. Maybe you can use them to tell me what you've been hyperventilating about here? Because as much as I love stringing you along and as much as I'm totally plussed about your judgement that I haven't made "a valid point in the thread", I still have no clue what your problem was. All I've seen is you dissolve into hysterics, apparently in response to something nebulously critical you think I initially said but actually, totally didn't. To add to the confusion, it seems like in your latest posts that you are trying to say that what sparked your initial breakdown was the fact that you self-evidently agreed with what I had said. Well! If that's the case, all I can say is that I'm glad more people don't physically explode in a burst of maudlin high school prose when people say things that they agree with.

Or if you can't manage to tell me what you're disagreeing with in my initial post, maybe you could quote some more of that darling letter you wrote to your first jilting love? I've already got the incense burning, the black light glowing and my Cure mp3s looping to set the mood.

I just saw Jakub's edit and I still don't get it. His reason for objecting to my initial post? The "great insight about having to strike a balance between ads and content" - which Jakub in the very same post refers to as so self-evident as to have been "a fact of life since the first ad appeared in a newspaper centuries ago" - is also the "single most idiotic post in this thread or any thread in quite a while" and "a stillborn leper of an argument"? Thank god smashing "Great graphics! Five bullseyes!" into Frontpage doesn't require more coherency.

[Erik Andersson]

I'm afraid the doctor is right Jakub, I can't understand your reaction either.

[Anaxagoras]

Crypt, you haven't made a single valid point in this thread.

Actually, Crypt's first post was by the far the most insightful in this thread. After reading it, I thought his points were almost sophomoric... they were so obviously true that I wondered why he had to post them. (Of course, he had to post them because people like me hadn't realized them until after I read them. *Sigh*) How Jakub could get his panties in a bunch over a simple cost/benefit analysis is beyond me.

[mouselock]

A game website is not an entitlement--it's a free service that (if they like the site in question) they should be thankful for.
While I hate the whiny sense of entitlement of today's mouth breathing crater faces as much as anyone, this is just as crappy of an attitude to take. When I go a website, I'm usually not getting entertainment for free, any more than I am getting television or radio for free: I am paying for these services by exposing myself to advertising.

There's a wholly substantial difference between the types of ads you get on television/radio and the types of ads you get on websites, however. As I write this, there seems to be some type of banner up above. Was I aware it was there? Sure, I guess, subliminally. I mean, I thought to look up.

That's a far cry from "We know you'd love to know if the protagonist lives through the fiery car explosion - but first, a quick message from turtle wax! Turtle wax, keeps your car shiny in any condition! Buy turtlewax today. Now, back to our show -"

You're not really "paying" for your information. You're just damned lucky that the cost of disseminating that information is infinitesimal compared to what it used to be. The fact that the information itself is often free is nigh unfathomable in and of itself.

Ultimately, in exchange for the quality of information one can still get at the good websites, you're not even paying cable advertising rates. More like PBS rates (during non-pledge drive season). And certainly nothing like prime-time, ABC football types of dues.

(That's an all-encompassing you, btw. Not directed at DrCrypt specifically.)

[Derek Meister]

Heh. Anyone who believes that a mistaken sense of entitlement only occurs online and in the youth seriously needs to drive out to north east Ohio and work a day at my video store.

Twelve year olds. Fifty-two year olds. White. Black. Male. Female.

It comes from all ages, races and sexes.

People come in fully expecting that we should have a copy of Incredibly-Popular-Movie-X waiting specifically for them at 11:45pm on a Friday night, and get incredibly upset with us when it's not there.

It doesn't matter that our "Guaranteed In Stock" program means they'll get to rent it for free the next time they come in, no that's not good enough. In their minds we've personally ran over their cat while insulting their mothers and they let us know our grievous error in no uncertain, and often high-decible, whines, complaints, threats and moanings.

And we won't even get into those people who call us up in the middle of the Friday night dinner rush who scream at us over the telephone because we can't go out from behind the counter, ignoring the line of twenty people, and grab a copy of Popular-Movie-X to hold behind the desk for them just incase they may or may not show up that night and prevent someone who's already in the store from getting it.

Everyday at work, my lack of faith in humanity is renewed.

[Jon R.]

This could just be me, but if this happens regularly enough to bother you, then maybe someone at your video store should take a second look at what "guaranteed in stock" entails. Just a guess, but i'm thinking it doesn't mean "come back later".

I was kind of under the assumption that customers are, in fact, entitled to the specific service that the establisment is offering. If you're trying to get people to come in for a something and getting irritated that they're coming there for it, then it could be that someone along the line is missing the point. I've seen some pretty ridiculous customer demands as far as service goes, but at the same time i would hope that your particular establishment isn't under the assumption that they're into that particular business just as a selfless favor.

[Sean Tudor]

Everyday at work, my lack of faith in humanity is renewed.

I have read enough horror stories from video store staff to know that they really are the arse end of the consumer universe.

It is really a symptom of the modern consumer mantra "the customer is always right" - even when the customer is most definitely wrong.

The only worse place to be is on a frontline helpdesk. Then you get all the loonies who think they know how to use a computer and printer but really don't have a fucking clue and refuse to even look at the quick reference sheet with its big 72 point letters and large diagrams and then wonder why their printer doesn't work because they have put their ink tanks in upside down.

You know homo sapiens has come a long way from the apes but in some respects apes are smarter.

[Sean Tudor]

This could just be me, but if this happens regularly enough to bother you, then maybe someone at your video store should take a second look at what "guaranteed in stock" entails. Just a guess, but i'm thinking it doesn't mean "come back later".

Oh watch out everyone - Jon R. is in "I hate teachers" mode.

[chet]

As for sense of ownership, it is a weird thing. Obviously some of the forum members at omm eventually thought they owned the entire omm site, more than erik or I. That with us not updating, they were the site.

Right now on poe-news I introduced some new ads, sticking with the tried and true, banner on top, banner on side. We have had some problems with the company serving ads so some people have issues, understandable and I made a section in the forums for people to raise the issues. But so far, it is worth doing.

I am sure every webmaster in the world wishes they had supercool ads on their site, that looked cool and were for products they loved. But the reality is, that doesn't happen. Bring up penny-arcade all you want, but I see plenty of non-paying, non-traffic driving house ads.

So for example, on poe-news, my choice was between making anywhere between $0-$90 a month in banner sales and then using the rest for my own banners, or going with outside companies and making between $300-$500 a month. So I don't use AOL or expedia myself, is that any reason to not run their ads? For people who visit the site to get pissed?

If I allowed the really crap ads, the download ads etc, it would be between $500-800 a month. That choice is harder in the financial sense, but I hate that shit so much, the choice is pretty simple.

Are some users still mad? Probably. But really, every webmaster, editor etc knows this, once you have an audience of more than 50 people, someone hates your fucking guts. It isn't just kids, it is all ages feel like that since they visit, and in the case of some of my sites, contribute content, that you owe them more than providing a place for that exchange, you owe them the right to be their bitch to slap around.

I don't care what site you have, if you update, if you grow it, it takes a shitload of work. There are a million people who are going to have a site, be the coolest game site, and it never happens. No matter what the medium, you could lower the entry barrier to $0, and it wouldn't matter. The biggest barrier is time and perseverance.

But the funny thing, in the case of gamefaqs, they have an audience of over 1/2 million to a million people, out of that i bet about 5% visit the forums, out of that about .05% is probably pissed. So in context, fuck 'em. Seriously, people will make a big thing out of it because someone is bitching, but think of all the giant numbers that aren't mad, not saying anything.

Recently a total shit on poe acted up and I got crap for booting him, hothead etc, oh my sites will be gone soon because I booted him... he is one person out of 750,000 people who visited my sites in Nov. While I try to keep everyone and keep them happy, it just isn't going to happen. So like gamefaqs, you can think this is representative of the general reaction, or realize, that the number of people pissed, are probably less then the number of people who happened upon the site by accident while looking for naked pictures of paris hilton.

Chet

[Sean Tudor]

So like gamefaqs, you can think this is representative of the general reaction, or realize, that the number of people pissed, are probably less then the number of people who happened upon the site by accident while looking for naked pictures of paris hilton.

Chet

LOL! The problem is some webmasters take it to heart and pack up their bags even though the vast majority of visitors are sane, normal people.

I am maintaining a website for a friend that averages over 100,000 hits per month and serves on average 10 Gig's of files per month. He was ready to pack it in because he had 10 or so people being assholes. The irony is that the website is totally add free and doesn't cost anything to use.

And yet people will still be dicks even when something is handed to them on a platter. But luckily they are in the minority.

[nutsak]

This kind of bitching has risen lately it seems. There's another set of forums that I visit that have rescently put ads up just to cover costs of the amount of visitors per month... no biggy for normal people that understand that servers actually cost money to run, but others went into a spin and blasted the admins for it. Then they complain about mods banning them for breaking the rules. They litereally started up a thread and in it said "oh! how shit, I got banned because I called someone a faggot" ... no kidding huh? , some other guy gets banned for posting pornographic materials and then complains when HE gets banned... I'm pretty sure it's not just the internet kids we got to worry about... It's every kid that knows that they have rights... that you can beat them into submission or out of conciousness ... they also "know everything" , but that's been a teenage quality ever since people could talk.

[Chris Nahr]

that you can beat them into submission or out of conciousness ...

You can!? I'm moving to Australia! But what's Peter Frazier complaining about all the time then? :P

[DennyA]

It's definitely not just kids, and it extends past ads. In the flight sim community, there are a lot of guys who spend hundreds of hours creating cool, free add-on planes, or stuff like AI airline traffic.

Yet in the few months I've been watching the FS2004 community, I've already seen a few of these guys (who do commercial-quality work for free) post that they're done creating stuff, because of frustration with the flames and complaints.

Some guy spends 100 hours creating a simulated replica of a Lockheed Constellation airliner and is rewarded by dozens of messages griping that the tail shape is slightly odd, cursing at him because the stall speed is off by 5% at 20,000 feet, or calling him an idiot for various other minor things. This for a FREE add-on plane created by a fellow user. And alas, when the guy who created it gets cursing bitch-fests from 30 whiners and only one or two "good job" messages from the other 970 people who downloaded and liked the plane, he's not really encouraged to keep going.

[Supertanker]

I'm not surprised by that kind of ungrateful whining, since my faith in humanity is so low. That doesn't make it any less sad and boorish, though. I was trying to think of any time I was angry or inspired enough to write to a mod developer. Aside from message boards about specific issues, the only one I recall is writing to Scott Jones to tell him how much I liked XcomUtil. (Which is still around, btw: http://xcomutil.scotttjones.com/ )

[XPav]

I just read this article on Slate...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2092302/

About the entitlement beliefs that senior citizens have re: drugs.

[steve]

I wonder if the sense of entitlement has actually changed or if the Internet has allowed them to unite and appear as a much bigger, and whinier, voice. Not to mention the quantity of media who reports on it has increased (in the case of whiny seniors).

[Derek Meister]

I was kind of under the assumption that customers are, in fact, entitled to the specific service that the establisment is offering. If you're trying to get people to come in for a something and getting irritated that they're coming there for it, then it could be that someone along the line is missing the point.

Firstly, I have no problem with people making use of our program. It's pretty clearly advertised as a guarentee that should the movies covered under it not be in stock, we as a company will give you a little rain check that will allow you to rent that movie for free when it comes in.

Now, when a reasonable customer comes in, notices that all the copies of Pirates of the Caribbean are all out and asks us if any are due in, I cheerfully check when we're likely to have more due in, which is usually the next morning, and immediately offer them the free rain check.

No, what I'm speaking about are those individuals who come in during a period where no reasonable person would assume that a popular movie just released a few days ago would be in near midnight on a cold weekend night. I'm speaking about those same people who in their worldview believe that they absolutely deserve to have a special copy of that popular movie that should be there at all times just for them, and then begin to curse in a loud voice to all in the store about how I, personally, have offended them by robbing them of being able to watch this movie which they did not care enough about to take the time to ensure that they might watch it.

I have no problem with keeping our end of the advertised bargain, which is providing a future use of our product for free when demand exceeds supply, but people feel they should be able to take their frustration over their own lack of planning out on employees at will.

We have at minimum, four to six customers per weekend night who find that being offered a free rental is not acceptable, and will complain to us at length about our inability to produce another copy. I've had people walk behind the counter looking for another copy, screaming that we were "asshole liars who were just fucking hiding videos from customers", which makes no sense as a business plan, really.

Such entitlement feelings that you're defending would be similar to a person who arrives at a theater twenty minutes after a popular movie started on a weekend night and then made a scene because they weren't allowed into the already standing-room-only packed theater, and who then proceeds to be upset that the employees cannot produce out of nowhere a few more rows of chairs for their convenience.

I've seen some pretty ridiculous customer demands as far as service goes

Asking for a rain check as part of an advertised program is not rediculous in my opinion.

Making a scene to the point of threatening employees because they are unable to produce another copy of a popular movie that's been rented out and making a loud noise at how it's unacceptable that they're being offered a free rental of that product when it next becomes available may not be your definition of rediculous, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then.

[Derek Meister]

I have read enough horror stories from video store staff to know that they really are the arse end of the consumer universe.

... [ snip ] ...

The only worse place to be is on a frontline helpdesk.

Sadly enough, the only reason I'm working in the former is because there actually are no jobs in the latter.

I used to work frontline helpdesk, making twice what I do now, but the company folded, and now I'm stuck going to interviews where a literal crowd is competing for jobs that pay less than the video store. The most recent job paid the exact same hourly rate, and had 512 people from the extended area apply for it.

[Jon R.]

If it's a constant 4-6+ people per weekend, then i'm gonna have to wonder what the problem is in learning to compensate by ordering more copies. Copping out with a bargain isn't much of an excuse for constantly failing to meet a demand that you know is going to be there, a demand your establishment is specifically there to meet the supply of. Sounds like a lack of planning on both ends unless, of course, the extra copies aren't going to be rented enough to cover costs. But then again, is giving them a rental for free any more lucrative? Especially when they leave pissed? Again, i'm wondering if someone isn't missing the point of that little advertised guarantee deal.

Making a scene to the point of threatening employees because they are unable to produce another copy of a popular movie that's been rented out and making a loud noise at how it's unacceptable that they're being offered a free rental of that product when it next becomes available may not be your definition of rediculous, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then.

Not necessarily. It just seemed to me like you had a bigger issue with customers overreacting than you did with their sense of entitlement. Or, maybe in the context of this thread those issues are one in the same.

The dislike of boorish customers is fair enough and i have no problem with service going out the window at the same time the customer's civility does. Still, it's quite clear that those people do not want a free make-up rental. Just as the customer isn't always right, it's not as though you can just toss out consistently lacking service and expect them to lap it up.

[Derek Meister]

If it's a constant 4-6+ people per weekend, then i'm gonna have to wonder what the problem is in learning to compensate by ordering more copies.

Sounds like a lack of planning on both ends unless, of course, the extra copies aren't going to be rented enough to cover costs. But then again, is giving them a rental for free any more lucrative? Especially when they leave pissed? Again, i'm wondering if someone isn't missing the point of that little advertised guarantee deal.

Any purchases over what we have on hand will not result in enough rentals per copy to make the investment back, let alone any profit.

Giving someone a free rental does several things.

The first, and most obvious, is that it provides a safety net for the customer, in that should the movie they want not be in, their trip is not in vain, as they'll either get the movie they want now at the rental price, or get it later for free.

It serves the company because it brings people back into the store, and general, many people will simply rent something else each time they come in, which means two trips in the case of a rain check.

Basically, you have a situation in which had the company never had the guarenteed in stock promise, then the customers still wouldn't get the movie, and would also not get a free rental to make the wasted trip less of a waste.

Not necessarily. It just seemed to me like you had a bigger issue with customers overreacting than you did with their sense of entitlement. Or, maybe in the context of this thread those issues are one in the same.

The people overreacting are doing so because they have an inflated belief in what they are entitled to anything they wish, even when it is economically not feasable, which is in line with the basic point of this thread.

There's an old story about a company executive saying that they should find out what the customers want and give it to them. Turns out that after many studies, what the customers want is a better product, but for free.

The same is true of people who want all the services of a website without having the website attempt to make a profit through advertising.

People also want movies in situations where it's economically impossible to do so, due to an overinflated sense of entitlement as to what they should be able to get out of a program.

Still, it's quite clear that those people do not want a free make-up rental. Just as the customer isn't always right, it's not as though you can just toss out consistently lacking service and expect them to lap it up.

Wow. That's impressively insulting. You're actually argueing that because we cannot provide for every need in an economically feasible manner, and despite offering programs that actively help the customer when not offering those programs wouldn't, is the definition of "consistantly lacking service"?

Here's a clue: You are not entitled to a service if in providing that service the company doing so would cease to make their initial investment back and lose money. You are further not entitled to snub any attempt to lessen that lose of service, and you are especially not entitled to make the life of a $5/hr CSR hell because you feel you're entitled to something that even gradeschool children can see is pretty much impossible.

[tromik]

If you ever venture into the PC Gamer forums, you'll find tonnes of readers complaining about the content/ad ratio, and about how its SOO MUCH higher now. I don't think it's really changed much at all, for one, and ads pay the bills. The more ads, the more content.

[Jon R.]

Any purchases over what we have on hand will not result in enough rentals per copy to make the investment back, let alone any profit.


And this is specifically figured out before ordering the movies? Or is the number of copies ordered guesswork?


Basically, you have a situation in which had the company never had the guarenteed in stock promise, then the customers still wouldn't get the movie, and would also not get a free rental to make the wasted trip less of a waste.

All fine and good.


The people overreacting are doing so because they have an inflated belief in what they are entitled to anything they wish, even when it is economically not feasable, which is in line with the basic point of this thread.

Uh, no. Unless recent customers have also started demanding Big Macs and airplane parts, they have a belief that they can go to the video store to rent a video. As in, exchange money for a movie for a short period of time. Are they not entitled to do that? This is still more of a thing with overreaction than with entitlement to me, but i'll be content to chalk it up to semantics.


There's an old story about a company executive saying that they should find out what the customers want and give it to them. Turns out that after many studies, what the customers want is a better product, but for free.

The same is true of people who want all the services of a website without having the website attempt to make a profit through advertising.

Yes, it's a cute story. Except that it's more of a play on common sense to make people chuckle than it is a piece of sage wisdom. I want a town-sized harem that i would call Mighty Fuck, USA. I'll settle for less. People want fast, clean, reliable, and free websites with no effort asked of them. The majority will settle for sites that doen't try to cram uninteresting, article-breaking, distracting ads down their throat with a side order of guilt trip.

Wow. That's impressively insulting. You're actually argueing that because we cannot provide for every need in an economically feasible manner, and despite offering programs that actively help the customer when not offering those programs wouldn't, is the definition of "consistantly lacking service"?


I'm arguing that if you can do it in an economically feasible manner, shut up and do it. If you can't, like you're suggesting, then you can't. All the real insults are checked out currently, so come back later and i'll supply one free of charge.

[Squirrel Killer]

Although a "guarantee" in the sense that Derek's video store indends is a promise to do something if the store can't fulfill the request, people take "guarantee" to mean that their request will be fulfilled, come hell or high water. The confusion, and the anger, results from differences in conotating "guarantee".

[chet]

No. Derek's store has just chosen to bastardize what the word guarantee means. So much advertising is just lumping words together until they become meaningless. In this case, guarantee, is completely meaningless as they do not actually guarantee the product will be in stock as they advertise.

Derek's store plants this seed in the consumer's head to win them over, it is not unreasonable after you see 50 commercials guaranteeing something, to think that they might actually guarantee it. If they can't guarantee it, then they shouldn't say they guarantee it.

Is it physically possible? Hell, I am a moron, I don't know if DVDs themselves are physically possible, but you tell me I can stick them in my dvd player and play them, so I believe you. What if half of them didn't work, would it be unreasonable for me to be pissed? Or would you explain the wonders of the technology to me?

I think too many companies hijack words to use in advertising when they never intend to actually live up to what the word means. I see this in hosting with promises of 100%uptime, unlimited space or bandwidth - all words to trick the consumer when they are full well impossible to produce and if you read the fine print, of course not even really promised.

The funny thing, even with repeated weekly problems, Derek sees this as a consumer issue, not a faulty advertising issue.

Chet

[steve]

If you ever venture into the PC Gamer forums, you'll find tonnes of readers complaining about the content/ad ratio, and about how its SOO MUCH higher now. I don't think it's really changed much at all, for one, and ads pay the bills. The more ads, the more content.
Which is funny, since all the magazines have a higher edit-to-ads ratio nowadays, which certainly isn't by choice.

[Squirrel Killer]

No. Derek's store has just chosen to bastardize what the word guarantee means. So much advertising is just lumping words together until they become meaningless. In this case, guarantee, is completely meaningless as they do not actually guarantee the product will be in stock as they advertise.

I was about to say the same thing until I came across this:

b: an assurance of the quality or of the length of use to be expected from a product offered for sale often with a promise of reimbursement

While no other definition I found allowed for the possibility for something guaranteed to not happen, legally, there's an out.

Still, Derek should understand that when a customer plans to watch a movie, perhaps invites a friend over to watch it with, and drives 5-10 minutes to your store to get the movie that your store has promised to have available, and you just shrug and say "Oh well, you can have it free tomorrow," they might be a little put out. Even with the legal wiggle room, if someone guarantees me something, I damn well expect it.

[Jobe]

In that case, you could always just get another movie, or go to the video store on the days and times that the movie you absolutely have to watch that day is going to be in the stores. I've always thought guaranteed-or-it's-free-next-time deals are great, because I'm never entering a video store with a rabid attachment to one particular movie.

[Jon R.]

Really? WOW!

[Derek Meister]

Still, Derek should understand that when a customer plans to watch a movie, perhaps invites a friend over to watch it with, and drives 5-10 minutes to your store to get the movie that your store has promised to have available, and you just shrug and say "Oh well, you can have it free tomorrow," they might be a little put out. Even with the legal wiggle room, if someone guarantees me something, I damn well expect it.

I would just be happy if customers hould actually understand that they should use a little bit of reading comprehension when screaming at one of my $5/hr employees.

We have nice big signs situated clearly within each title in the GIS program that state in big clear letters "Guarenteed in stock or you rent for free"

At no time are we promising that a title will absolutely be in stock. We are guarenteeing that should a title in the GIS program not be in stock, we'll give you a free rental of it.

Unfortunately, as mentioned, in far too many cases, it doesn't even come down to what the actual program clearly states. Every weekend night, I deal with at minimum two or more people who will actually refuse the free rental, because the are of the mindset that they are entitled to getting whatever movie they want, when they want, regardless of any other customers, despite the economic realities.

Frankly, it's impossible to deal with people who have that inflated sense of entitlement, who chose to ignore the economic realities of providing a service, much like those people who bitch and moan about even a single text advert appearing on a website they frequent.

I would have imagined that Chet would understand being a part of POE Hosting, which has a bullet point in the $13/month service plan that I use with them that simply says "24 hour support response time".

Now any reasonable person will understand that this promised support won't include anything that's economically unfeasable, for example, holding a customer's hand every fifteen minutes in their attempt to program up a CGI application for their website. Your terms of service even says as much, and again, no reasonable person would expect that of Chet.

However, just as there are people who feel they are entitled to get every rental they want, no matter how popular or at what time they're coming into the store, are the same type of people who expect website admins to come to their rescue at 3am for a "hello world" php script and become angry when they don't get an email response in fifteen minutes.

My original point was to show that people with an inflated sense of entitlement that flies in the face of economic realities isn't just limited to underaged people, nor to the online world.

[Kalle]

Derek, I hate to break this to you, but as a customer I don't give a fuck about the economic realities facing stores I choose to take my business to. That is their problem, and their problem alone, I just want to go about my business. If said stores make promises to me I expect them to live up to that promise or I'll get pissed because I never forced them to promise me anything, they did that of their own free will. If they suddenly find out that a policy is hurting them, or that they can't live up to a promise because they fucked up the math, or because they were flat-out misleading, I don't care, it's not my responsibility to care about their economical situation, I want the advertised service.

[MattKeil]

Isn't the advertised service "If we don't have this movie, you can rent any other movie for free," though?

It's not the store worming out of its promotional claims, it's customers with below-average reading comprehension.

[Jon R.]

Isn't the advertised service "If we don't have this movie, you can rent any other movie for free," though?

It's not the store worming out of its promotional claims, it's customers with below-average reading comprehension.

The customers are reading it fine, it's just the people who wrote it being inept at communication. According to Derek himself:
We have nice big signs situated clearly within each title in the GIS program that state in big clear letters "Guarenteed in stock or you rent for free"

As opposed to "Guaranteed free rental if your preferred movie is not in stock". I'd like to think that even a monkey could see the HUGE difference between the two, although i shudder to think what would be going on if they used the latter wording instead.

[Murph]

Wow. This is kinda crazy.

I don't know, specifically, which video store Derek works for, but I have seen many video stores with a similar gimmick, and it always says, in quite legible letter -- not even that ever-so-tiny-nobody-could-possibly-hope-to-read-it print -- "Guaranteed in stock or you rent it for free." Exactly what he said his signs say. Even a guarantee should be allowed to assume common sense. I don't understand how anyone could expect that every video store have 1.4 billion copies of a "guaranteed" movie, just in case 1.4 billion people showed up to rent it all that same night. Every guarantee comes with a disclaimer, because it's impossible to forsee every possible outcome. That's why pizza delivery places say "We'll deliver in half an hour, or you eat for free." That's a guarantee, too, after all.

Anyone who would be irate that the movie they want to see isn't in stock definitely has an over-inflated sense of entitlement, regardless. It would be different if they weren't offered some compensation when that movie is not in stock, and if they want to argue over whether or not that compensation is adequate, that's a different story. But to become beligerent because the movie you wanted to watch isn't there -- nevermind the fact you waited until the very last minute to try and obtain the movie and never bothered to call and see if it's still in stock -- because maybe 75 other people came in wanting to see that same movie that same night is just absurd.

[chet]

But I think the customers reaction back up the idea that this is misleading. If you had one or two customers a month upset, okay, nutcases out of the multitudes. But you seem to indicate this is a regular occurence, which unless you just like screwing with customers, is a bad thing.

If it upsets that many customers, then I don't care if the "or rent free " (which is vague to me what that means) is 50 feet high on the front of the store, it is obviously not conveying the true deal being offered. So either a great deal of your customers are idiots, or the marketing department is doing a poor job.

Chet

[Derek Meister]

Oh, there's no argument that the majority of the complaints are coming from the less intellectually endowed amongst the population.

Example: we have a drop slot situated in the front of the store on the outside to allow customers to drop their videos in to return them without having to come inside. I've been the person opening the box for 10:30am Sunday monring returns, which are almost always the largest of the week, for the last four months.

Just for kicks, I've taken to keeping track of useless statistics from these drops. Out of every one hundred DVDs returned:

35 will be more than one day late. 21 of those customers will always proceed to argue that they were told the movies were due back seven days later than the actual due date, despite there being a large, red insert that says "2 Day Rental, due back at noon on third day" on the actual rental case, and are given a receipt with the listed due date for each rental, which my employees will read the due dates from, hand to the customer and tell them that the due date is always printed on the receipt. In general, I tell my employees to just waive the late fees no matter how bald face the lies get, and we've gotten some pretty big ones.

5 of the rental cases will be empty, as the customer will return the case without ejecting the tape or disc from their player before returning, or they'll have one of the customer's own movies or games inside. 2 of the customers, usually kids renting a new, popular video game, will insist that the disc was never in the case when we rented it to them, and therefore they don't owe us a new game.

3 of the returns will be for another video chain, with a case done in a color scheme that is completely unrelated to the one our entire front of the store is done as, and just happens to not have the same rental chain name either. I've actually had people argue with me for upwards of ten minutes that a particular tape belonged to our store and not the other video chain store up the street. Often, customers will also call us up angry that they will incure late fees at the other store until they come and pick up the rental and return it to the correct video chain, because we should "return it to the right place for them".

1 rental will have been tossed into the freestanding trash can that's near the entrance doors, which has "TRASH ONLY" stamped in big letters on it's flip door lid, because the customer thought it was the rental return slot. Yes, this happens at least once a week.


I guess I'm completely missing how there's some "hidden deal" that we're somehow trying to mislead people about. "This title guarenteed in stock, or you next rental of that title is free" isn't exactly complicated, and honestly, if someone cannot comprehend that there is a finite supply of rental units per title, and that this deal is actually an attempt to make up for this finite supply situation rather than some underhanded attempt to fool them into thinking we have an infinite supply of Eight Crazy Nights, then, yes, they are morons.

See, I have absolutely no problem in doing things to relieve frustration of our customers. More than half of all late fees I simply waive, especially if they're coming in to rent something else. I give away non-new releases and bags of popcorn for answering the simplest of movie trivia questions when people are in long lines. If someone even asks if Popular Movie X is in, if it's in the GIS program, I immediately check through the large piles of returns, and freely offer the rain check which can be used any time within the next month without hesitation. If there's ever any kind of mistake on our part, I immediately try to resolve the situation to the customer's satisfaction as quickly as possible, and then provide a number of free rentals for their troubles. I always encourage the same from my employees.

[Ben Sones]

So either a great deal of your customers are idiots, or the marketing department is doing a poor job.



The third option, which you did not mention, is that both of these things are true.

[Jon R.]

I guess I'm completely missing how there's some "hidden deal" that we're somehow trying to mislead people about. "This title guarenteed in stock, or you next rental of that title is free" isn't exactly complicated, and honestly, if someone cannot comprehend that there is a finite supply of rental units per title, and that this deal is actually an attempt to make up for this finite supply situation rather than some underhanded attempt to fool them into thinking we have an infinite supply of Eight Crazy Nights, then, yes, they are morons.

Comprehending the limited supply is apparently more difficult than you think. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't be guaranteeing the availability of items you regularly run out of.

[Derek Meister]

Comprehending the limited supply is apparently more difficult than you think. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't be guaranteeing the availability of items you regularly run out of.

Once again, the point of the guarentee isn't a promise that we will have an infinite supply of movies, nor has it ever been implied as such.

It's a guarentee that should a movie not be in stock, we'll give it to you for free the next time you're in.

I'm sorry if you somehow feel that this is a company trying to screw you over by offering this, which it isn't. It's a promotion that takes the economic reality into account that there is a finite supply of rental copies, and most people want to rent them the fist weekend night, and to make your trip a little better, we're doing something to make up for this fact of life.

Honestly, if this is some sort of evil corporate trick as some of the replies here, as well as the temper tantrums by the two people I will no doubt suffer through tonight, believe, how then is you life better if we were to stop offering the promotion tomorrow? You would still not get the movie at 11:55pm, and you'd not get a free rental.

[Jobe]

At least in this thread you've gotten to see where such customers come from. Having worked in a couple of crappy industries, I realize how cruel it is to yell at the guy working at the store for decisions made by people in suits at the home office thousands of miles away.

I don't see how any of those stores owes me shit: I walk into the store, see what service/product they're offering and how well they offer it, and then decide whether I'm going to give them the price that they demand for it. If I'm not satisfied, I'll go to another store, which is exactly what I did do when Blockbuster randomly assessed us a late fee and was disrespectful about expunging it, then lied to us about the auto-renewal policy of their Games Freedom Pass (this was the fault of the store's employees, not the suits). I know that voting with one basically-empty wallet isn't going to tell Blockbuster anything, but I'm not getting stressed out by going to that particular store anymore. Because it was a problem with a specific group of employees, I still go to Blockbuster, just not that one.

It's really not so much a logical breakdown of the semantics of your guarantee idea or the discussion of some utopia where you have exactly the same copies of the new movie as there are customers who demand it. There are simply people in this world who always need somebody with which to be angry. You see them at your store and you see them at boards like this one. They'll get out their monocles and pore over every inch of your words to find something wrong with what you're saying so that they can claim there's a logical reason for their anger, but it was there long before they found the flaw. All you can really do is turn to the other employee after the asshole leaves, make fun of him, have a laugh, and prepare for the next prick.

[Jon R.]

Once again, the point of the guarentee isn't a promise that we will have an infinite supply of movies, nor has it ever been implied as such.

It's a guarentee that should a movie not be in stock, we'll give it to you for free the next time you're in.

It's a guarantee that several people involved with your store aren't entirely familliar with the English language.

Here, we have the offer:
"This title guarenteed in stock, or you next rental of that title is free"

Here, we have proper emphasis on what the actual guarantee is:
"This title guarenteed in stock, or you next rental of that title is free"

Can you actually promise that a customer's preferred movie will absolutely be in stock? No, right? We've established that. So you're making a promise that you have no hope of keeping?Hmmmm, i wonder where the fucking problem is. And you're so willing to piss and moan about customer reading comprehension. Naughty naughty.

If i have 5 apples to sell to 20 people and guarantee that a person will always get an apple, i am making a guarantee that i cannot cover. I just can't keep people from buying up those damn apples. I constantly run out before customer demand is fully met. I can give people a free orange out of my infinite supply of oranges to make up for it, but the fact is that i would be making a false claim. It is a bullshit guarantee. Giving away makeup oranges means that the guarantee has been broken. The orange is there to say "I'm sorry i completely cocked up this guarantee".

Any of this getting through yet, sparky?

[Bub, Andrew]

Once Derek leaves retail for a while he'll realize there's far more to hate about the movie rental business when you're a consumer. Why are all the people who work at Blockbuster idiots? Is just one minor example.

The guarantee is deliberately misleading. That's not Derek's fault, I'm sure the vast marketing machine at BBuster knew what they were doing. The idea behind it is to get people in the store for that movie and then to give them a raincheck that ensures they don't hop over to Planet Video to get that same movie. It stops people from stopping in, finding their choice gone, and then going to the competition. I agree with Derek, people who get mad are being stupid, but the program (like most advertising) is designed to mislead.

[Ben]

Jon R.- Uh, I at least don't see commas as a sign to stop reading. I don't rent very many movies, but I'm still familar with the policy and the English language. There are many, many policies like this, all along the lines of "we guarantee X, or Y". X is satisfaction, Y is generally from the refund/reward school of stuff.


Are you this angrily confused about all of those? When the pizza guy shows up 40 minutes after you called, do you demand he invent a time machine and show up 15 minutes earlier or do you take your free pizza?

And customers are not entitled to rent movies from Blockbuster. They choose to do so. If the movie isn't there, they feel the price is too high, the line to long, they have plenty of other options.

[Murph]

If i have 5 apples to sell to 20 people and guarantee that a person will always get an apple, i am making a guarantee that i cannot cover. I just can't keep people from buying up those damn apples. I constantly run out before customer demand is fully met. I can give people a free orange out of my infinite supply of oranges to make up for it, but the fact is that i would be making a false claim. It is a bullshit guarantee. Giving away makeup oranges means that the guarantee has been broken. The orange is there to say "I'm sorry i completely cocked up this guarantee".

Huge difference.

Blockbuster does not put such a guarantee on every movie. They assess trends (I assume) and order the number of copies they expect to be rented at any one given time, plus maybe a few more to allow some breathing room, and then put the guarantee on that movie. It's not like they just get five copies and then start making crap up.

And, I'm really with Derek on this -- they're still giving you something for your trouble, which they don't have to do.

Can anyone think of a guarantee that doesn't work this way? I mean, the most common usage is a "money-back guarantee," isn't it? The exact thing that's saying is "We guarantee you you'll like it. If you don't, we'll give you your money back."

It's not like Blockbuster doesn't intend to have a copy for everyone that wants one (generally -- if Derek's store continually doesn't, then maybe they need to start ordering more), but they're confident enough that they will to offer something to their customers if they don't.

[Jon R.]

Are you this angrily confused about all of those? When the pizza guy shows up 40 minutes after you called, do you demand he invent a time machine and show up 15 minutes earlier or do you take your free pizza?

If my pizza is still hot when it gets here, i do neither. Why? Because it's pretty clear that the "30 minutes or free" guarantee is BS, something they have no real way of guaranteeing without a GPS and a total disregard of traffic laws. It has been, and always will be, something that deserves the yank-off gesture.


And customers are not entitled to rent movies from Blockbuster. They choose to do so. If the movie isn't there, they feel the price is too high, the line to long, they have plenty of other options.

There's something for another thread.

Blockbuster does not put such a guarantee on every movie. They assess trends (I assume) and order the number of copies they expect to be rented at any one given time, plus maybe a few more to allow some breathing room, and then put the guarantee on that movie. It's not like they just get five copies and then start making crap up.

Either way, it's absolutely clear that they regularly have problems guaranteeing the availability of movies that ARE in the the "GIS" program. What was your point again?

And, I'm really with Derek on this -- they're still giving you something for your trouble, which they don't have to do.

I think it's fine and good that they do. I also think they'd be up a creek if they made such an empty guarantee and without compensation. Naturally, they don't have to offer free makeup rentals when their promotion inevitably falls through. They also don't have to have, you know, customers.

Can anyone think of a guarantee that doesn't work this way? I mean, the most common usage is a "money-back guarantee," isn't it? The exact thing that's saying is "We guarantee you you'll like it. If you don't, we'll give you your money back."

I can't think of a currently used ad guarantee that doesn't work that way offhand. I also can't think of a currently used ad guarantee that anyone doesn't believe to be BS. Connect the dots.

[chet]

There is a difference between a "30 minutes or free guarantee" vs "This title guaranteed in stock, or you next rental of that title is free"

The wording should be

"This title in stock, or you next rental of that title is free - guaranteed"

The placement of the word guaranteed is very different between the two. In the first one it is meaningless, because you are not actually guaranteeing the title will be stock, what you are guaranteeing is the title will be in stock, or your next rental of that title is free.

That was my original complaint, and I stand by it. So for your customers misunderstanding the statement, no, I think you misundstand the statement, they are just asking you to stand by your words. Blockbusters ad guys have totally changed what the word guarantee means, making it just some marketing gobbly gook.

Chet

[Murph]

Blockbusters ad guys have totally changed what the word guarantee means, making it just some marketing gobbly gook.

Have they? I mean, I don't disagree that your wording is clearer, but it seems to be that Blockbuster's ad guys use the word "guarantee" the same way that just about everyone else does.

That doesn't necessarily make it right, but that's not really the point. I think Blockbuster's guarantee is totally in line with the way the word "guarantee" is commonly used. It is always used in a sense of "We will guarantee this, OR give some form of compensation." Always.

[Ben]

Jon R.- So you choose to pay for pizza you could otherwise get for free out of some truly bizarre principled stance against "BS"?


How is the "30 minutes or free" principle BS? They give you your pizza for free if they don't get it to you in 30 minutes, right? I mean, if they claim that policy and then don't live up to it, I understand. But otherwise...

The reason they include the "or it's free" clause is precisely because they don't have GPS or the legal ability to drive on sidewalks. They will, at times, deliver the pizza late. But the store is showing a commitment towards getting you your pizza within one half hour of ordering it with such a guarantee.

Your last 3 sentences are absolutely nonsensical. Are you high or something? I, for one, do not believe the Blockbuster GIS program to be bullshit.

[Jon R.]

We've gone over the problem several times now.

I choose not to invoke the "guarantee" generally because it's ridiculous to hold the driver to a stopwatch every time. Like i said, i can sypmathize with a worker's distaste of customer overreaction, and i'm not about to hold the poor guy up and make him stick to whatever asinine "guarantee" some barely literate advertising fuckwit came up with. Maybe it's raining or snowing, maybe he's new, maybe it's a busy night. Or, maybe it has nothing to do with whatever the hell we're talking about here. Thanks for asking though.

[Derek Meister]

There is a difference between a "30 minutes or free guarantee" vs "This title guaranteed in stock, or you next rental of that title is free"

The wording should be

"This title in stock, or you next rental of that title is free - guaranteed"

I note that there's a comma in your first example, which may be where some of the confusion seems to be coming from, especially as I too put it there myself in a couple of previous replies.

Since this thread, I decided to make sure what it is is actually on the boxes, and did note that there are in fact no comma in the actual guarentee.

In fact, the actual box says:

GUARENTEED
This title in stock or your next rental free!*

*If a Guaranteed Movie or Game is out, get a free movie or game rental rain check for that title. Limit one (1) free rental rain check issued/redeemed per member per day. Membership rules apply. Not valid in combination with any other offer or discount. Recipient responsible for applicable taxes and extended viewing fees. Valid at participating stores only. Franchisees may or may not participate. Other restrictions apply. See free rental rain check for details. Not all movies and games are guaranteed.

So basically, the actual sign that's all over the store in fact says pretty much the same thing you think it should, other than the GUARANTEED being at the begining and no the end.