Defense Grid 2 Kickstarter

[RepoMan]

OH GOD YES PLEASE FUND THIS NOW. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiddenpath/defense-grid-2)

Damn, they're not ambitious, are they? $250K gets us an 8-level expansion, $500K gets multiplayer and a new engine, $750K gets a level editor and cross-platform support (Mac & Linux), $1M gets us the full-on, full-fledged Defense Grid 2 game, with new aliens towers game modes campaign and OMGSPOOOOOGE

($250K is their base goal, the rest are stretch.)

Hell, if a stinkin' old-school boardgame (Ogre) could almost crack $1M without even planning to, who's to say how far this could go? I'm in at $50, which gives beta access to all new content via Steam. Come on, you KNOW you want this!!!

[Pogue Mahone]

Damn man, I want to go in on this, but I really want a new game. What are the chances of this thing actually hitting a million?

[Telefrog]

Wait, so anything below a million is just a repeat of the levels in DG but in a new engine with multiplayer (how does that work?) and 8 new levels?

I like DG, but I don't think I'm in on this. If they make it to a million, good for them. I'll happily buy the sequel.

[Otagan]

I know someone who would sacrifice as many people/cattle/whatever as needed to get multiplayer Defense Grid, but I'm not sure he'd actually put any more than about $20 down on it. I think that's going to be their biggest obstacle, as I'm not inclined to put down much of anything unless I know that $1M mark is going to be hit. Doesn't look like I'm alone in that, either.

[DennyA]

I'm in. I didn't have DG on Steam anyway (just 360), so add in the DLC and other stuff and the $20 level is a no-brainer for me.

(Plus, a guy in my community theater group works at Hidden Path. Gotta support my friends. :)

Otagan, they only have to hit 500K to get the multiplayer, not 1M.

[Qmanol]

I threw down $20 for the early bird special because I'm a sucker for soundtracks. Hopefully they'll get their million.

[Otagan]

Otagan, they only have to hit 500K to get the multiplayer, not 1M.
Sorry, was trying to make two separate points. Someone I know really wants multiplayer, I only care about the new game.

[mouselock]

$1M seems like a lot of money for a game of this genre, particularly when they've obviously worked out the basics already. Of course, $250k seems like an egregiously larger amount of money for only 8 levels. Am I just totally out of touch with how much effort a tower defense is to make?

[JPR]

Well, they are talking about creating a "new engine" for the sequel, whatever they mean by that, exactly. And it sounds like they are actually wanting to fund their development with the Kickstarter, which is not the intention of most of the games Kickstarters. Based on the other games numbers I've seen (and the amazing level of polish Defense Grid had at launch), that doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

[Timsfker]

I bit for the $20 early bird deal. After thinking about it, if all they make is $250,000, that's $20 just for an eight-level expansion.

[Starlight]

$1M seems like a lot of money for a game of this genre, particularly when they've obviously worked out the basics already.

This. Count me as "watching, but dubious". (I thought the original was fun, but it's not my favourite genre)

[Corey Krosting]

I'm not a fan of how they set this up, with the actual product being a stretch goal.

I loved Defense Grid though and I'll support them, so I put in for the Platinum level backer.

[pilonv1]

Loved Defense Grid to death, hopefully they can get towards the new game. I've probably played enough of the original and expansions and even a new engine with multiplayer couldn't draw me back in.

[AtomicPlayboy]

Really weird setup they've got here. I loved DG, but I don't have a burning need for another handful of levels. DG2 would on the other hand be a day one purchase at $50 for me. So the Kickstarter pseudo-pre-order affect isn't going to hook me if I'm going to overpay for a level pack that I don't want or alternately underpay for a game that I'm happy to buy at full price if it comes out. I'll wait this out until I see if they get close to the $1M goal.

I hope that having the full game be the stretch goal doesn't become the norm for Kickstarter projects.

[Rock8man]

I'm in. Thanks for the heads up RepoMan. I really hope they get enough money for the full sequel.

[LMN8R]

$1M seems like a lot of money for a game of this genre, particularly when they've obviously worked out the basics already. Of course, $250k seems like an egregiously larger amount of money for only 8 levels. Am I just totally out of touch with how much effort a tower defense is to make?

$1 million would be lucky to fund a studio for a year with 10 people working decent wages, after wages, benefits, costs of doing business, rewards, and of course the cut that both Kickstarter and Amazon take out of the total.


They've answered some questions on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/wcjxg/kickstarter_defense_grid_2_hidden_path/


Why do they need a Kickstarter? They are pretty much on Valve's payroll now as CSGO developers. Defense Grid was very successful on Steam too. I have no doubt Valve would finance the sequel.

If we had the money to make DG2 on our own, we would absolutely do it. There's a lot that goes into a game business, and while Valve and us are partners on CSGO, it doesn't extend at the moment to financing our own projects.




WARNING: LOTS OF SKEPTICISM AHEAD.
I have the first one, and it's a fantastic game (it and Killing Floor were the reasons I created my Steam account). I also agree that TD is a niche genre and isn't very popular, but the first game has done incredibly well for an indie game:

Top 10 sale every time it's on sale (except during big sale, for obvious reason)
Very few sale (on the top of my head, I can count about 5, and that's included the latest 3 Steam-wise sale).
Game is generally accepted to be top-notch (maybe a little biased, but wherever I goes, DG and Sol Suvivor are synonymous to TD.

Now they're saying they need 1 mil? Hmm, I don't know, how about throw in another Steam sale, see how much they got first? Apparently they doesn't need money that badly, since the lowest tier reward gives you DG1. Also apart from DG1, I don't know any other game from Hidden Path, and working with Valve in CS:GO? Excuse my bluntness, but so does Valve's employees' favorite grocery stores.
f you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.
Real answer: takes a lot of money to make games (especially ones with 3d art instead of 2d sprites), and we don't have enough to make DG2 on our own. We've been pitching it for several years but it's not f2p social (where the money is now in small games), or AAA (where the money is in big games). We still think there's enough interest to be successful, but that's what we're finding out by doing a kickstarter. Because kickstarters have been oversaturated, we wanted to change it up a little by finding partners (AMD, Razer) who could help us with getting the word out.
(and we've doing primary development on CS:GO for 3 years now, but that's a different question :))



What happened to the profits the original made?

We were in a situation before with some investment that let us borrow money for DG, then pay back with its profits. Unfortunately we aren't in that situation any more, and the profits aren't enough to cover DG2 (we've reinvested heavily already though)

[intruder]

I was thinking about jumping on the Early Bird special but it's sold out (only 500 copies seriously?). Way to reward people on Kickstarter.

Well in this case I will wait for the expansion / Defense Grid 2 on Steam.
If the piss me off more than I will wait for a sale on them. It's not as if my backlog let me run out of games in the next years anyways.

[TurinTur]

From what I remember of DG1... well, it looked very nice, but the nature of this games means they can heavily reuse art assets for the scenarios, the maps themselves are very simple to do once you have the editor and the gameplay nailed down (and they have, they can reuse the code of the first game), and yeah, being honest, I think one million dollars is an inflated number for this project (and also 250K is expensive for just 8 new levels for the first game).

[Nikolaj]

I'd back it if it the goal was 1 million. I also think they'd stand a much better chance of reaching a million, if that was the goal. As it is, a lot of people seem to be holding back, waiting for it to reach a million.

[sharaleo]

Who approves this shit on Kickstarter? This is not a Kickstarter for DG2, it's a Kickstarter for a DG1 expansion. ie successfully funding this project (250k) does not get you the DG2 advertised in the project title. It's blatantly misleading.

I mean, good luck to them and all, but at least be honest about it and ask for the million.

[Telefrog]

I think one million dollars is an inflated number for this project (and also 250K is expensive for just 8 new levels for the first game).

This is my issue. Besides the $1 million asking price for a full sequel, the $250K price on a DLC pack is just nuts.

The "You Monster" DLC pack is 8 levels and costs $4.99 on Steam right now. If they made another 8 level pack and tied into the next big Steam promo meta-game (like the whole Potato boondoggle) it's guaranteed to sell.

[Starlight]

I mean, good luck to them and all, but at least be honest about it and ask for the million.

Eh, to some degree additional granularity would be nice, but I understand why kickstarter does it this way, from their side. I agree the title's misleading.

[Sepiche]

Yeah I'm in the camp that thinks listing this as a Kickstarter for Defense Grid 2 is a bit disingenuous, but it's not enough to keep me from chipping in. Of course, that said if this gets down to the wire and it looks like they aren't going to cross the million dollar mark, I'll probably cancel my support and just buy DG 2 whenever it comes out.

[Marcus]

I like that they felt the need to throw in some advertisements in their kickstarter.

[legowarrior]

Obviously, this is too early, but here is some good news.
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/hiddenpath/defense-grid-2

[Tin Wisdom]

I went ahead and put in towards the $55 level. I hear the objections in this thread, but (a) I honestly believe that they will exceed the $1M mark and I'll get the DG2 game along with all the other stuff, and (b) ye gods but I love Defense Grid... I've put in 120+ hours into the game and I think I bought it for $14 the first time it went on sale. I don't really mind retroactively paying them 57 cents an hour back-rent on their game.

[jpinard]

I wish they would have just done Kickstarter for DG2. It seems like what everyone would like the most (the new engine + new campaign) would have garnered more long-term higher donations. Having it as a top-tier stretch goal will put a lot of people off.

[lordkosc]

I wish the goals were in the opposite order, I'm gonna wait till the end on this one. Who knows maybe it will hit 1 mil.

[Razgon]

From what I remember of DG1... well, it looked very nice, but the nature of this games means they can heavily reuse art assets for the scenarios, the maps themselves are very simple to do once you have the editor and the gameplay nailed down (and they have, they can reuse the code of the first game), and yeah, being honest, I think one million dollars is an inflated number for this project (and also 250K is expensive for just 8 new levels for the first game).

You don't seem to have played the game much, or am I misreading your "From what I remember"? There is a reason the game is pretty much the defacto ruler of Tower Defense games - besides its pure brilliance in design, its very very well executed. Think oldstyle blizzard production values all the way through - Its simply very well done. That kind of thing isn't done in 3 months by 2 guys - its a bigger task and frankly..we've been over the whole "1 million isn't a lot" in game development a few times by now, and I think as mentioned upthread we can all agree that it's not really outrageous.

Now, back to me going "WOW!! I get home from vacation and THIS is what I see?! Awesome - I've been waiting for this for quite some years now!"

[TurinTur]

Meh, didn't like it a lot.

[Razgon]

Meh, didn't like it a lot.

Ah - so just talking without really knowing anything about it. Got it!

[Razgon]

Interesting tidbit of info from over at GT about the game and how the developers have tried the past few years to move it forward.


dden Path Entertainment, AMD & Razer about 14 hours ago wrote:
Hi Adam, understand your skepticism based on things I read as well, but we're being completely up-front with you. First of all, Resurgence cost about $200,000 to develop and You Monster cost about $300,000 to develop, so DG:Containment at $250,000 is a pretty accurate estimation of what it will cost. AMD and Razer, remember aren't contributing any money, they're promoting the kickstarter, providing pledge rewards, and working with us on the new engine to make sure we support some of their existing and upcoming technologies – they’re providing technical support on technology integration, but they aren’t paying for any development of the game. We're being extremely efficient this time around not only building Containment in the first $250,000 but also making progress on the DG2 engine during that time.

As for your second question about "could we honestly not get funding" it pains me to hear that, not because I don't agree with you, that it should be "obvious" that someone would pick it up, but honestly over 20 publishers have expressed interest over the last 3 years and we did literally a hundred or more presentations and meetings, and term sheets, and everything, and in the end, not one publisher went forward. They were always excited at first, they were always eager and liked the idea of working with us, and they always decided not to move forward when they did their market analysis saying "it wouldn't be profitable enough, for them to choose to work on it" - they needed higher profits than they could forecast based on what we would earn for the game for them to decide to do it.

I'm sorry you think we have another choice - we don't. We really want to make DG2, but I'm pretty sure we have exhausted every other possibility over the last 3 years in trying to get this game made.

While I understand and share the sceptism of the model of Kickstarter, I still say its a very valid way forward for developers to bypass publishers who "needs bigger profit forecasts" - In my mind, those big kinds of publishers needs to die out, so we can get back to enjoying the hobby without a spreadsheet determining what games we get to play.

[pyrhic]

I really like DG, but the stretch goal really just turned me off. Even the short term goal, the way the lines read to me is 'this is the minimum i'll do this for' as opposed to 'this is what it'll cost' and there's a subtle difference there. IIRC, they were a little bitter about the sales of the game too....

I dunno, something feels off here - I'll stand on the sidelines on this one.

[lordkosc]

I am in the 55$ tier, but if they don't hit a million I'll be backing out.

I'd be much happier if they would have gone in this order of goals...

DG2 > Containment > New game Engine / Multiplayer > Level Editor, ect.

The current engine still looks mighty fine imho.

[sharaleo]

AMD and Razer, remember aren't contributing any money, they're promoting the kickstarter, providing pledge rewards, and working with us on the new engine to make sure we support some of their existing and upcoming technologies – they’re providing technical support on technology integration, but they aren’t paying for any development of the game.


So your big names are doing precisely fuck all. Fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff...

[Razgon]

So your big names are doing precisely fuck all. Fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff...

What on earth is this? Do you hate them? Do they deserve this? Or are you just angry at them for some reason?

[DennyA]

So your big names are doing precisely fuck all. Fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff, fluff...
Oh, God, stop with the gamerrage. They're sponsors, and they've donated some of the perks for contributors.

[mtkafka]

Two years ago DG was pretty damn awesome... but ever since then, and playing every damn tower defense I could play (even on ios and android), DG is pretty much a relic imo. You don't even need to 'pay' for a really good TD game anymore, there's tons on Kongregate and the like.

[pilonv1]

Two years ago DG was pretty damn awesome... but ever since then, and playing every damn tower defense I could play (even on ios and android), DG is pretty much a relic imo. You don't even need to 'pay' for a really good TD game anymore, there's tons on Kongregate and the like.

I found it the other way round, after every new TD game I'd find myself going back to Defense Grid. There's just a charm about it that I've not found elsewhere.

[Tin Wisdom]

I've got to agree: DG pushes almost all of the Tower Defense buttons.

You've got the ability to do "open field" TD (e.g., Fieldrunners") or "fixed path" TD (e.g., Kingdom Rush), or a mix of both. You've got a nice mix of well-balanced towers. You've got a crap-load of alternate modes and achievements. Plus great graphics and a vaguely interesting story-line.

Honestly, the only weakness I can point to is that it's not running on an iPad.

[TurinTur]

Ah - so just talking without really knowing anything about it. Got it!

Stop trolling Razgon.

[Razgon]

Stop trolling Razgon.

I wish :-(

[mtkafka]

I've got to agree: DG pushes almost all of the Tower Defense buttons.

You've got the ability to do "open field" TD (e.g., Fieldrunners") or "fixed path" TD (e.g., Kingdom Rush), or a mix of both. You've got a nice mix of well-balanced towers. You've got a crap-load of alternate modes and achievements. Plus great graphics and a vaguely interesting story-line.

Honestly, the only weakness I can point to is that it's not running on an iPad.

Yeah, DG is great that it does a little of everything, but it still doesnt do the RPG aspect that I like in some of the flash TD's I've tried. Theres the Gem TD games on Kongregate I played a TON of last year, and then that indie RPG Defenders Quest.

But I think the best part of DG is it does have the levels for replayability. Plus the graphics are still tops.

Add a mix of rpg like Defenders Quest for DGII and I'll 'donate' to the Kickstarter!

[JPR]

In the most recent video update, they clarified something that you guys will be interested in: if they raise more than what's required to meet their funding goal but less than what's required to Kickstart DG2, all those who would have been entitled to DG2 through the Kickstarter will still receive DG2 for free upon release (assuming, of course, they line up some other kind of funding). They said that if they meet their $1M goal, they would expect release of DG2 around Summer 2013, but if they don't meet that goal, the game will still be funded somehow, it will just come out later.

Anyway. They were basically saying, don't hold off supporting us because you think we might not make our $1M stretch goal -- you'll still get the rewards as if we did, they will just be later.

[RepoMan]

I upped to the $80 level because DAMMIT I WANT THIS TO WORK. Incremental funding and creative uses of Kickstarter FTMFW. Especially when it's for a product that I know these motherfuckers can deliver.

[Derek French]

Bump time. This needs more visibility.

They are just over half way there, with 14 days to go.

I really want this game to happen. My son and I really love it.

[RepoMan]

Agreed completely. I hope people will reconsider their concerns around the funding plan they're using. Reading the reddit makes it really clear that these guys are genuine, and that they were striking the best compromise they could between going for $1M and possibly (probably) failing, or going for a more reasonable goal that would get them closer.

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm on the fence about this one and for no really good reason. I would love a sequel but am not very interested in still more DLC, in fact I haven't played the Portal-themed DLC completely yet. I would jump right in if they would consider skipping directly to DG2.

[DennyA]

I'm on the fence about this one and for no really good reason. I would love a sequel but am not very interested in still more DLC, in fact I haven't played the Portal-themed DLC completely yet. I would jump right in if they would consider skipping directly to DG2.
Keep in mind that if you support it, you will eventually get DG2. It's just that making their goal will get it to you faster.

From their project update page (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiddenpath/defense-grid-2/posts):

Also, to be very clear: as mentioned in the FAQ and in the video - if you're a backer, you're going to get DG2 someday. If we raise all the needed money now, we know that will be sometime next year. If we raise a portion of the money now, you'll still get DG2 when we make it, we just don't know exactly when that will be.

[Otagan]

That's entirely too much of a gamble for me to put money down on it, even though I love Defense Grid. I only want the sequel and am not exactly comfortable taking their word that it'll come out someday in the far future.

Of course, it likely will come out some day and I'll end up eating my own hat, but it's not good enough to get any money out of me today. I'll just pay full price in the event that it does see the light of day at some indeterminate point in the future.

[Derek French]

I'm on the fence about this one and for no really good reason. I would love a sequel but am not very interested in still more DLC, in fact I haven't played the Portal-themed DLC completely yet. I would jump right in if they would consider skipping directly to DG2.
The Portal-themed one is really fun. GlaDOS basically takes over the DG play and then starts messing with the DG rules and environment in later levels. And the voice... oh, it haunts you.


That's entirely too much of a gamble for me to put money down on it, even though I love Defense Grid. I only want the sequel and am not exactly comfortable taking their word that it'll come out someday in the far future.

Of course, it likely will come out some day and I'll end up eating my own hat, but it's not good enough to get any money out of me today. I'll just pay full price in the event that it does see the light of day at some indeterminate point in the future.
Yeah, I think it is more of an unfortunate layout and presentation with their Kickstarter.

12 days to go.

[Timsfker]

It got over the 250k line with 3 days to go..

I feel sorry for these guys, I feel that if they didn't screw up launch day by making it appear as if you will not get defense grid 2 with your backing if they don't reach $1 million, then they would have done alot better than they did. They have put alot of effort in to explain, update, and promote the kickstarter since then but it was too late to get many people back (in my view).

[Tman]

Well, at least us backers know that when they finish DG2, we'll get it for free!

I do agree with your prognosis - the should have had something like:

$500K - DG2
$750K - Level Editor
$1M - Coop

But I'm happy, it would have been disastrous if they didn't reach the $250K level - and it was looking like that was in jeopardy just a few weeks ago.

[Brad Grenz]

Definitely a weird one. People didn't want to support them because they assumed they should be fat with CS:GO money from Valve. Making DG2 a stretch goal was weird. And they had some strong corporate support from Razer and AMD. They basically got free hardware they were using as rewards well below retail, but they still couldn't get traction. Too bad, cause Defense Grid is amazing.

[Murbella]

I must admit, that while i liked the first game, i don't think it is worth $15 for a mini expansion and i don't feel too confident about supporting what is essentially a kickstarter for a kickstarter.

Still, i might end up supporting it.

[lordkosc]

Containment is out on 1/23

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/16/defense-grid-containment/

Also the latest email I got, said they are 1/2 funded towards Defense Grid 2, so if it does ever get made, people who pledged for the Containment expansion will get DG2 free.


What is happening with DG2? Will you make it? Will I get a copy? When will it be done?

DG2 is a game that we have about half the money to make right now and are we are still short the amount needed to ensure completion. We are working hard to raise the remaining amount of money and we believe shipping Containment has helped demonstrate that we can deliver on our promises, so that's helping in the discussions. We've had some very good discussions and hopefully we'll have some good news to announce to you one of these days. Once we have locked down all the needed financing for the development, we'll move forward with a team of folks on a schedule that will likely last us a year of development. So once the money is set, it will take just about a year to complete the project and then get ready to ship it. As we have promised to you earlier, when we are able to make DG2, yes, you'll get a copy of that too. We greatly appreciate your backing and we're happy to include you on our road to making DG2 and in shipping that game as well. For now, though, we are excited to be able to send you Defense Grid: Containment as that is what the Kickstarter was able to directly fund.

[Rock8man]

Yeah, I installed Containment when they sent me the email that it was final (I had to dig around my old emails for about 20 minutes in order to finally find the beta key they sent), I installed it right away, but I haven't actually loaded it up. Too risky with the wife home for a 3 day weekend. Hopefully I'll try it on Tuesday.

[lordkosc]

I'll give it a try this weekend, I really enjoyed DG, never bothered with any of the DLC even thought I have it all now due to cheap steam sales.

[Rock8man]

I couldn't resist taking a quick look. Holy moly! The new campaign starts off super tough. It's nice to hear new voice acting for the new campaign too. That first map is going to be really tough to beat. This is Defense Grid for veteran players for sure.

[Murbella]

I couldn't resist taking a quick look. Holy moly! The new campaign starts off super tough. It's nice to hear new voice acting for the new campaign too. That first map is going to be really tough to beat. This is Defense Grid for veteran players for sure.

Agreed.

I'm pretty rusty and i made a few mistakes because i was thinking of other tower defenses where if you block off one lane, it will go through it, but the first couple missions have been HARD.

Liking it so far.

[RepoMan]

Huh, I gold-medalled the first map on my second try, and gold-medalled the second map on my first try :-) Well, OK, I did rewind a couple of times, but not too many. I even got up to #10 on the global leaderboard for Super Grinder on the first map, with 90.1M points, not that that will last very long probably. My go-to decimator strategy is fully upgraded temporal + command + concussion in a choke point where the path winds around the concussion tower.

I've probably played more Defense Grid than any other single game in the last six months or so (Steam says 50 hours), which isn't really saying much as I've been on a low ebb gaming-wise. Defense Grid, though, it's always there for me and Containment is fun, though really it's just new maps and no new towers/tactics/aliens. Still, if it ain't broke.....

[Rock8man]

Once I figured out what routes the aliens were going to take, it was simple, but it took a lot of retries and failed attempts to finally figure that out. It's interesting that they used that kind of obscuring of your view to sort of challenge you to figure out how to build defenses. It took me quite a few retries to figure out which way the aliens could go, and which towers where would block a certain path to them and which ones they could just go around.

[Gus_Smedstad]

I didn't have any trouble figuring out alien paths, though I agree that there are some ramps that are hard to see. I've gotten gold on all the Containment maps now. First couple of maps weren't that hard, but I had to re-load save points on the last couple of maps multiple times.

Some of the extra achievements are instructive. In particular, the ones that want you to build just 10 or 15 towers without selling. Mainly because in pursuing those you find out that there are some layouts that are very efficient - to get those, you really want most of your towers to cover multiple segments of the alien path.

The hardest extra achievement I've done is "Clear Skies," which requires that you get gold on the initial map reversed without missile towers or meteors.

[Rachel Brown]

Containment is out on 1/23

Also the latest email I got, said they are 1/2 funded towards Defense Grid 2, so if it does ever get made, people who pledged for the Containment expansion will get DG2 free.

It's (http://store.steampowered.com/app/18523/) out now. It costs $4.99. I pledged $30.
If and when we get Defense Grid 2, it will not be free. Not at all.

[Gus_Smedstad]

If and when we get Defense Grid 2, it will not be free. Not at all.
That's not what they said.


As we have promised to you earlier, when we are able to make DG2, yes, you'll get a copy of that too.
It won't be "free" in the sense that we who supported the Kickstarter have already paid. And it's rather likely that the retail price will be less than the $20 minimum pledge to get DG2. But they have been clear enough that they do intend to give out copies of DG2 to supporters of the kickstarter.

[Rachel Brown]

That's not what they said.

It won't be "free" in the sense that we who supported the Kickstarter have already paid. And it's rather likely that the retail price will be less than the $20 minimum pledge to get DG2. But they have been clear enough that they do intend to give out copies of DG2 to supporters of the kickstarter.

Indeed. So for $30, a backer gets this $5 DLC, DG2 -if released- which will most likely cost under $20, and a lesson in not jumping to back any and all Kickstarter projects. Outcome; -$5 and a lesson. Some may argue that $5 purchased the lesson. Fair point.

[Rock8man]

Indeed. So for $30, a backer gets this $5 DLC, DG2 -if released- which will most likely cost under $20, and a lesson in not jumping to back any and all Kickstarter projects. Outcome; -$5 and a lesson. Some may argue that $5 purchased the lesson. Fair point.

That's only if you view kickstarter as a preorder mechanism. If people hadn't funded the project, no one would be able to get the DLC for $5 anyway.

[garin]

The minimum pledge was $15, and included a copy of DG2. The only reason to pledge $30 was to get the extra bits and pieces they were offering (soundtracks, wallpaper, old DLC).

If they had no value to you, then yeah, you made a very dumb decision.

[Woolen Horde]

I just bought the expansion (not a kickstarter), and got through the first few levels. Gold medal on story mode each time. The first one was a bit tough at first, but the second and third were easy.

Hopefully it ramps up.

[Gus_Smedstad]

I've been grinding through the alternate modes for the Containment levels, and I do mean "grind" since Grinder and Super Grinder modes are really, really boring. I've come to hate the voicing of the Simon character. Which is depressing in a way, because I just got the promotional email for Containment, and they make a big deal out of getting Alan Tudyk to voice Simon. WTF Alan?

The maps are pretty decent, really. I think the real issue with challenge is largely that I know the Defense Grid mechanics inside and out now with so many maps under my belt, and the same killbox approaches usually work on any map. The creative bits largely come from maps where you can fold the path on itself, but can't really do so with complete freedom. Some layouts are much better than others, and you have to do so effectively since such maps usually throw a lot of tough invaders at you.

[Woolen Horde]

Yeah, once you realize that pretty much massed gun turrets trump everything, DG can be pretty easy.

[DennyA]

It's (http://store.steampowered.com/app/18523/) out now. It costs $4.99. I pledged $30.
If and when we get Defense Grid 2, it will not be free. Not at all.
Considering you also got a copy of the original Defense Grid, and all of the DLC for it, in addition to the new expansion, I think you got your money's worth.

It's not Hidden Path's fault if you already had DG1. (I didn't have the PC version, just the 360.)

[RepoMan]

Yeah, once you realize that pretty much massed gun turrets trump everything, DG can be pretty easy.

Massed concussion towers trump massed gun turrets in most situations, actually, since they do area effect damage which decimates thick mobs far more quickly than guns ever could. If you can get the path to hairpin around a row of concussion turrets with a temporal, well, that's your killbox right there.

[Murbella]

Wait does that work against tough aliens too or do you put cannons and other stuff up for those?

[Gus_Smedstad]

I generally have 3 parts to my defense: gun towers / cannons to knock down shields, followed by area effect weapons (flamers or concussion towers), followed by gun towers / cannons for the tough aliens.

The first segment is generally relevant not for self-shielding Bulwarks, since they usually don't cluster tight enough for AoE towers to be efficient. No, the shield-reduction is about eliminating Spire shielding, because they usually come with hordes of weak swarmers, and the AoE towers are much, much more efficient at killing those than guns / cannons.

[nogwart]

Containment is my first "Day 1 purchase" in I can't remember how long! Haven't played any of it yet, but have blocked out many, many hours this evening for diving into it with plentiful supplies of beer and snacky-crap! Many, many hours, I say!

Damn, that clock is slow!

[Sepiche]

Defense Grid 2 is go!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiddenpath/defense-grid-2/posts/463516?ref=email&show_token=a34740373123d171&play=1#video

If you kickstarted Containment you'll get it for free. Comes out first half of next year.

[RepoMan]

AWESOME. Their plan wound up working after all. YAAAAAY!!!!!!

[lordkosc]

VERY nice, 6291 backers get free copies!

[Murbella]

Defense Grid 2 is go!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiddenpath/defense-grid-2/posts/463516?ref=email&show_token=a34740373123d171&play=1#video

If you kickstarted Containment you'll get it for free. Comes out first half of next year.

Woot! I just finished containment too.

Between this and sanctum 2 I should be in tower defense heaven. Now if I could just get an orcs must die 3...