Lost in widescreen TV Hell

[Joe O'Malley]

Okay, some of you already know that I find the different types of widescreen televisions confusing and perplexing.

This has not changed. I remain rather skeptical of choosing the correct television to suit my needs and desires. So, let me tell those amongst you with better video kung fu than myself what I want and what I've got, and hope you'll be able to help widdle old me get a good deal.

What I want: A big TV (good for HDTV) that will have kick-ass picture and work well with DVD, video game system and surround sound (currently running through my stereo). I'd prefer if it wasn't too awfully deep, as some of the projection ones can be, but really don't want to spend more than $2000 and absolutely don't want to spend more than $3000.

I currently have a Sony stereo hooked to JVC surround speaker system then run to the television.
My Xbox is hooked up to the television. It currently serves as my DVD player, but I understand I may need to upgrade with a regular DVD player because limitations with the Xbox (due to the sharper picture on the tv).
My videocassette player is run through my cable box, which is run to the tv.

It's quite a wiring job. Frankenstein would be proud.

So what's the verdict folks? I tend to like Sony and Toshiba products, but Sony stuff seems pricey these days. Anyone (cough Loyd cough) have ideas?

[Jason Cross]

I don't have a lot of specific input into models and such, but I'll just say this:

Try to get a TV that supports 720p. They all do 480p and 1080i, but not a lot support 720p (the number is growing, though).

When it comes to games, Xbox games especially, there are two HDTV resolutions. There's 480p, which is really common and gives you a nice stable picture but at the same resolution as regular 'ol non-HDTV. Then there's 720p, which is a widescreen format with a resolution of 1280x720. It's a much higher resolution and games that support it (Amped 2 comes to mind as a recent example) look friggin' awesome.

It's still pretty uncommon, but moving forward I think it will be the most commonly supported HDTV resolution for game systems. 1080i is 1920x1080, a resolution which just starts to require some big-time fill rate, and it's interlaced, which isn't nearly as nice for games (especially those that are trying to be locked at 60fps).

Other useful things to look for: lots of inputs. Try to get one with at least 2 or 3 sets of COMPONENT inputs on the back, and 2 or 3 S-Video inputs as well. In the coming years, you're probably going to wish you had more than 3 component inputs (a couple game systems, a hi-def TiVo when they eventually arrive, DVD player... it adds up quick).

[Matthew Gallant]

There's a switch box with component inputs out there, I saw it a couple of days ago at Gamestop. $99, though.

[Kevin Grey]

There's a switch box with component inputs out there, I saw it a couple of days ago at Gamestop. $99, though.

You can actually use a standard composite switchbox for component switching. Just plug the RGB connectors into the yellow video and red and white RCA connections. The only detriment to this is you may lose some video bandwith but if you only use it for gaming and non-HD sources like DVD there is negligible drop in picture quality.

As for TV selection, with your pricerange if you want a TV >40" you will likely need to go with Rear Projection. The only disadvantage is the size of the units themselves- picture on a good model is just as good as if not better than LCD or Plasma.

As for brands Toshiba and Sony are fine. I personally own a Mitsibishi 55". My model is out of your price range but I know that they sell a line of HDTV's through Best Buy that are approx $2000. I don't think they support 720p though (I may be wrong on that).

Jason is right- if you are interested in a lot of gaming it will be worth it to find a TV with 720p capability. Jaggies in games are *very noticable* on large screens so the increased resolution in 720p can make a huge difference in image quality. I do expect the next generation of consoles to be designed with HDTV in mind and would expect most games to support at least 720p if not 1080i.

If you are actually planning on watching HD television you will need to either get a set with an integrated HD tuner or but use a set top box for DirecTV or Dishnet. Either one of these options is likely to cost you an additional couple hundred dollars. If your local cable company offers HD then you may be able to rent a HD cable converter from them for much cheaper.

Also, in most markets to get the major networks HD feed (ABC, NBC, etc) you will need to receive them over the air via antenna. An old UHF antenna in your attic is perfect for this- you don't need anything fancy. For an idea of what networks and relative signal strength you can get in your area, go to www.antennaweb.org .

As for DVD player- you will want to upgrade to a model that supports progressive scan. The Xbox supports progressive in games but not in viewing regular DVDs. It has the technical capability to support it but evidently Microsoft didn't want to pay some licensing fees, or something to that effect. Progressive scan DVD players can be had for less than $200. The Panasonic RP-91 is generally considered to be the best DVD player under $400 and retails for less than $200.

Otherwise make sure you get the HD pack for the Xbox. It is required for getting a progressive scan signal. You also need to get component cables for your DVD player.

[Warlord of Mars]

Joe, let me boil it down for you:

Do not get the TV if it does not have 16:9 for widescreen. If you're going to spend that much money on a set and don't want to switch in two years or less, make sure you get 16:9.

Also, ask if the TV has a DVI input. That's probably going to be important to you in the future when you get a progressive scan DVD player (which is the kind you'll want to get with your new TV.)

What everybody else said works, but don't forget the 16:9 aspect. You'll thank me in the long run. There are HDTVs that come in the standard size, but you'll want the widescreen kind so you can enjoy movies in all their glory.

[Joe O'Malley]

Guys, thanks for all the input. Let me make sure I have this all down. It really comes to 4 things, listed in no particular order:

1) I want 16:9 ratio

2)720p feature (resolution?)

3)Lots of input jacks so I don't need a switchbox. I'll need a couple sets each of component and S-input jacks.

4)DVI input so I can use a progressive scan DVD player down the road.

I saw some of the models at Best Buy, but got the vaguely Homer-ish glazed look on my face when the guy started babbling about incomprehensible features. Maybe now I can figure this stuff out.

[Kevin Grey]

Also, ask if the TV has a DVI input. That's probably going to be important to you in the future when you get a progressive scan DVD player (which is the kind you'll want to get with your new TV.)



I don't understand this. DVI is in no way shape or form required for progressive scan. All that is necessary is component cables and a player that has progressive output. In fact I'd be surprised to find that many DVD players out there with DVI outs. DVI may give a slightly better image quality than component but its the type of improvement that 99% of the viewers would never noticed unless it was specifically pointed out to them and even then wouldn't see it.

[Kevin Grey]

I saw some of the models at Best Buy, but got the vaguely Homer-ish glazed look on my face when the guy started babbling about incomprehensible features. Maybe now I can figure this stuff out.

Joe, your best friend is http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ . Do a search there for any model you are considering buying and you are likely to get numerous threads discussing the relative pros and cons of said model.

Best Buy may have good prices but its not the best place to go if you are looking for knowledgeable salesmen. If you have a smaller dedicated home theater store in your area I would try them first. Even if their prices are higher you can go and and talk to salesmen who are probably better trained and even demo out the various equipment. Feel free to take in a few favorite DVDs so you can see what they will look like on your new TV. Once you have made your selection you can see if they will pricematch with Best Buy, Circuit City etc. If they won't just go back the Best Buy and buy the TV feeling better that you made an educated purchase.

[Toddy]

Or, y'know, give the business to the store that actually treats its customers properly? I've never understood this "cost-first" philosophy. I've always bought my audio systems at smaller stores, where the owner and staff know the product and can make reliable recommendations. It pays down the road, too, when you need service. Saving even a couple hundred bucks isn't worth it if you have to deal with the drones who work at places like Best Buy and Future Shop.

[Desslock]

I agree. I couldn't recommend Best Buy/Future Shop less. Brett (and other people around Toronto) -- Bay/Bloor Radio is king.

[Kevin Grey]

Or, y'know, give the business to the store that actually treats its customers properly? I've never understood this "cost-first" philosophy. I've always bought my audio systems at smaller stores, where the owner and staff know the product and can make reliable recommendations. It pays down the road, too, when you need service. Saving even a couple hundred bucks isn't worth it if you have to deal with the drones who work at places like Best Buy and Future Shop.

I tend to agree and in fact bought most of my home theater equipment at a local specialty store. For many people, though, they can barely afford the equipment to begin with and its hard to justify a few hundred dollars to support mom & pop. Its a great thing to do if you can afford it but I doubt many can.

I have found that a lot of these stores will work with you to lower the price. I purchased my TV in May of 2002 for $5000. I had to wait just over a month for delivery because I wanted it to be delivered to my new house. In that month the price dropped $500 and they refunded me the price difference which they certainly didn't have to do. When there was a miscommunication resulting in a missed delivery they waived the $100 delivery fee too.

[Case]

Also, ask if the TV has a DVI input. That's probably going to be important to you in the future when you get a progressive scan DVD player (which is the kind you'll want to get with your new TV.)



I don't understand this. DVI is in no way shape or form required for progressive scan. All that is necessary is component cables and a player that has progressive output. In fact I'd be surprised to find that many DVD players out there with DVI outs. DVI may give a slightly better image quality than component but its the type of improvement that 99% of the viewers would never noticed unless it was specifically pointed out to them and even then wouldn't see it.

No, only a couple of players support DVI today, although they do offer pretty darned good image quality.

But you want DVI that supports DHCP content protection for the new generation of high definition receivers (unless the HDTV has an HD tuner built-in). Even then, you might want an outboad tuner if you're getting HD over satellite or cable.

[Toddy]

I tend to agree and in fact bought most of my home theater equipment at a local specialty store. For many people, though, they can barely afford the equipment to begin with and its hard to justify a few hundred dollars to support mom & pop. Its a great thing to do if you can afford it but I doubt many can.

Yeah, but in all honesty if you're pinching pennies like this, there isn't any point going to a specialty store because those places typically carry little but higher-end product. If you want something on a budget, it's probably best to do your comparisons online and then just go to a box store or even a department store. You'll get the best deals there, if not service or quality. At times, that works for me. Whenever I buy a cheap rack system for a bedroom (I like having one in all the bedrooms, so I've bought a fair number of them over the years), I check out places like WalMart. Does the job nicely there, because I'm not looking to break the bank with top quality for stuff I use mostly to fall asleep to.

[Joe O'Malley]

I tend to agree and in fact bought most of my home theater equipment at a local specialty store. For many people, though, they can barely afford the equipment to begin with and its hard to justify a few hundred dollars to support mom & pop. Its a great thing to do if you can afford it but I doubt many can.

Yeah, but in all honesty if you're pinching pennies like this, there isn't any point going to a specialty store because those places typically carry little but higher-end product. If you want something on a budget, it's probably best to do your comparisons online and then just go to a box store or even a department store. You'll get the best deals there, if not service or quality. At times, that works for me. Whenever I buy a cheap rack system for a bedroom (I like having one in all the bedrooms, so I've bought a fair number of them over the years), I check out places like WalMart. Does the job nicely there, because I'm not looking to break the bank with top quality for stuff I use mostly to fall asleep to.

Y'know, I just can't seem to think about spending $2-3k on what is basically an entertainment purchase as pinching pennies.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I'm very happy with the Sony KDP-57WS550 (57inch) I bought last month. About $2500 on sale.

[Toddy]

I didn't say that spending $2-3K had anything to do with pinching pennies. I was talking about the additional hundred or so dollars it often costs to do business at a specialty store. If that's a deal breaker in this sort of purchase, that's pinching pennies. And if you're going to walk out of a mom-and-pop type store if they can't match Best Buy, you're better off not wasting mom and pop's time and just going to Best Buy in the first place.

[Joe O'Malley]

I didn't say that spending $2-3K had anything to do with pinching pennies. I was talking about the additional hundred or so dollars it often costs to do business at a specialty store. If that's a deal breaker in this sort of purchase, that's pinching pennies. And if you're going to walk out of a mom-and-pop type store if they can't match Best Buy, you're better off not wasting mom and pop's time and just going to Best Buy in the first place.

Hehe, I'm also in the process of adding a deck to my place. It is going to be -marginally- more expensive than this TV. :wink:

I checked some out Sunday. Interestingly, the DVI in seems pretty standard, as does the numerous number of inputs. Virtually every big-screen had 1080i capability. he salesman indicated that if a TV could do 1080i it also did 720p. Is this correct?

I was able to find a variety of TVs in the 55"-65" range with 16:9 and the above for anywhere from $2-$3k, and a bit more for the "mirrored" ones that don't have burn-in worries. The tyoped of games I tend to play on my XBOX aren't static background games, so I'm not thinking burn-in is a huge worry.

[Kevin Grey]

I checked some out Sunday. Interestingly, the DVI in seems pretty standard, as does the numerous number of inputs. Virtually every big-screen had 1080i capability. he salesman indicated that if a TV could do 1080i it also did 720p. Is this correct?



Yes and no. Some networks (mainly ABC) film and broadcast HDTV in 720p while most others 1080i. Any TV should be able to convert the 720p broadcast signal to 1080i for display.

The caveat is that a lot of TVs won't do this for your Xbox. My display is an example of this- it will not accept Xbox's 720p signal but I can watch programs from ABC, for example, in HD.

DVI is pretty standard for inputs on TV but not so standard as an output on a DVD player.

For best results, purchase a TV that specifically supports 720p.

[Toddy]

Hehe, I'm also in the process of adding a deck to my place. It is going to be -marginally- more expensive than this TV. :wink:

Heh, I know all about that. Did my deck this past summer. Wood prices are crazy. As are contractors. I won't get into my tale of woe dealing with a family friend/contractor, but let's just say get everything in writing and keep your lawyer on speed-dial. :-(

[Brad Grenz]

I checked some out Sunday. Interestingly, the DVI in seems pretty standard, as does the numerous number of inputs. Virtually every big-screen had 1080i capability. he salesman indicated that if a TV could do 1080i it also did 720p. Is this correct?



For best results, purchase a TV that specifically supports 720p.

Yeah, ask which sets "natively support 720p". Most manufacturers decide what will be their TV's native resolution, and then convert every other signal to that. But it sounds like some hardware can have trouble doing this properly with HD 720p Xbox games.

[Joe O'Malley]

Blah blah blah "natively support 720p". Most blah-blah-blahbitty-blah native resolution, and then blah-blah-blah. But it sounds like some hardware blah-blah with HD 720p Xbox games.

Er, are you saying that I should find a set that natively works at a lower resolution (720) and then converts to a higher resolution (1080) or my XBox won't work properly? Please remember that I speak 2 languages: English and bad English.

[Brad Grenz]

720 isn't really worse than 1080, because it is a progressive standard.

Basically, if you want to use an Xbox, get a native 720p set because converting signals won't come into the picture at all. The HD enable game produces a 720p signal and it stays that way all the way to display on such a TV. And both standards of HD broadcasts should look great.

[Kevin Grey]

Yeah, Brad's right- 720p is not necessarily worse than 1080i.

Its very technical and hard to show without screen captures but I'll do my best:

1080i means it is using 1080 lines of resolution but interlaced. The interlaced part means that the every time the screen is updated only half of the picture is displayed (ie 540 lines). The next "cycle" the other 540 lines are displayed. This means that using a 60hz signal, each line of resolution is active for 30 cycles. Regular TV is displayed in 480i.

720p is a progressive signal. It uses 720 lines of resolution but here's the catch- all 720 lines are displayed when the screen updates. This makes up for the fact that fewer lines of resolution are present overall. A DVD being viewed with a progressive scan player on a TV that supports it is displaying in 480p, which is a definite improvement over 480i.

What does this mean- 720p HD looks just as good to most people as 1080i. Given that there is a lot more support for 720p on Xbox than 1080i then your best bet is to go with a TV that natively supports 720p resolution. You will lose absolutely nothing in doing this.

[Joe O'Malley]

Hmm. But everything I saw made a poit of being 1080, not 720p. hmm...

[Kevin Grey]

Joe, if you post the model numbers of whatever TVs you are considering here I can probably figure out if it supports 720p in addition to 1080i.[/quote]

[Joe O'Malley]

Joe, if you post the model numbers of whatever TVs you are considering here I can probably figure out if it supports 720p in addition to 1080i.[/quote] The specific model numbers could change between now and Christmas when I'm going to get it. Let me get that to you a little later, and I'll see if I can figger it out myself, too.

[Brad Grenz]

Hmm. But everything I saw made a poit of being 1080, not 720p. hmm...

1080i is the better supported standard by TV manufacturers, but like I said, go to a store with a knowledgable staff and ask to see what they have in a TV that supports 720p as its native resolution.

I think Samsung's DLP sets are all 720p.

[Joe O'Malley]

How do these two look?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826214071&skuId=5446804&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03005

Dunno know about this one. It sounds like one of those that requires a set-top converter box.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826207623&skuId=5362822&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03005

I think this is one I was looking at in the store. Smaller and more expensive, but it did have a much brighter picture, especially when viewed from an angle.

[Ergo]

Brad--

The Samsung DLPs are 1080i. The new Philips Cineos sets (LCOS) are 720p.

[Kyle Wilson]

The Samsung DLPs are 1080i.

This is incorrect (www.samsung.com/Products/TV/ProjectionTV/TV_ProjectionTV_HLM507W.htm).

[Ergo]

The Samsung DLPs are 1080i.

This is incorrect (www.samsung.com/Products/TV/ProjectionTV/TV_ProjectionTV_HLM507W.htm).
D'oh! You're absolutely right. Nothing to see here, move along...

[Joe O'Malley]

The Samsung DLPs are 1080i.

This is incorrect (www.samsung.com/Products/TV/ProjectionTV/TV_ProjectionTV_HLM507W.htm).
D'oh! You're absolutely right. Nothing to see here, move along...

I'm actually not usually a big fan of Samsung, but noticed this. It's one of the reasons for the two I picked out previosuly.

[Joe O'Malley]

Hmf. Haven't seen any big sales on those Samsung TVs yet. I thought sure they'd get a big break after Christmas. That DLP TV really is nice and bright, but at $4k for 50" it's gonna have to stay at the store.

[Joe O'Malley]

Has anybody heard anything about this Samsung DLP stuff? They certainly do look nice and bright (and thin and light) in the stores, but ooh, pricey.

[Joe O'Malley]

Okay, with the patience of the penny-pinching crocodile I am I have waited for the DLP prices to fall. They have, about $500 in the past month, but they are still too pricey for me. Now something new has come up.

A couple of my friends have recently bought flat-screen TVs, about 36" or so. Not flat-panel, but flat-screen tube-type TV. I haven't seen the picture yet, but they are both singing rhapsodic praises of the things. They, like me, have been less-than-thrilled at the darkness and viewing angle restrictions of most projection televisions, so they got these instead. What's the word? Is this a good alternative? 36" sounds pretty big, since I have a 27" Trinitron at the moment.

[Gunmetal]

I bought a DLP two weeks ago and returned it last week. It's a really, really nice TV, but the current generation Samsungs have a slight video sync problem that makes playing videogames very unpleasant. All the action you see on screen is what happened a frame ago, so any timing you need to do becomes screwed up. If you're watching TV or DVDs, you'll be able to see a slight mismatch between what someone is saying and what position their lips are.
I play a lot of timing-based games like Street Fighter, DDR and Amplitude, so unfortunately it was useless to me. The AVS forum guys seem to think the next generation models (due out in the summer) will solve this problem, so I'm going to wait until then and see.

[Gunmetal]

Flat screen TVs (like the Sony Wegas) tend to be very heavy and bulky which may be a consideration, depending on where you want to put it. There are also, to my knowledge, no CRT-based widescreen TVs larger than 34"

[Dave Markell]

On Loyd Case's recommendation, I'm holding out until this summer myself. He says sets with the 3rd gen chip should be significantly cheaper, and probably better.

[Joe O'Malley]

On Loyd Case's recommendation, I'm holding out until this summer myself. He says sets with the 3rd gen chip should be significantly cheaper, and probably better.

3rd gen chip?

[Joe O'Malley]

I bought a DLP two weeks ago and returned it last week. It's a really, really nice TV, but the current generation Samsungs have a slight video sync problem that makes playing videogames very unpleasant. All the action you see on screen is what happened a frame ago, so any timing you need to do becomes screwed up. If you're watching TV or DVDs, you'll be able to see a slight mismatch between what someone is saying and what position their lips are.
I play a lot of timing-based games like Street Fighter, DDR and Amplitude, so unfortunately it was useless to me. The AVS forum guys seem to think the next generation models (due out in the summer) will solve this problem, so I'm going to wait until then and see.

That's good to know. Especially considering how expensive the things are.

[Dave Markell]

On Loyd Case's recommendation, I'm holding out until this summer myself. He says sets with the 3rd gen chip should be significantly cheaper, and probably better.

3rd gen chip?

The new models will feature the 3rd generation DLP chip from TI.

[Case]

On Loyd Case's recommendation, I'm holding out until this summer myself. He says sets with the 3rd gen chip should be significantly cheaper, and probably better.

3rd gen chip?

The new models will feature the 3rd generation DLP chip from TI.

Yeah, it's even dubbed "HD3" by TI. It has two main goals:

- Improved image quality (especially black levels)

- Lower cost

We'll have to see about the image quality in shipping units, but TI reps I spoke with at CES believe that HD3 will enable sub-$2000 DLP rear projectors.

By Fall, there will also be TVs based on a 1080p DLP chip, but those will probably be at the high end.

[Joe O'Malley]

Well I'm all for improved quality and lower cost. I really don't watch all that much TV, so can hold off on the flat-screen vs. projection screen thing for a few more months.

[Joe O'Malley]

On Loyd Case's recommendation, I'm holding out until this summer myself. He says sets with the 3rd gen chip should be significantly cheaper, and probably better.

3rd gen chip?

The new models will feature the 3rd generation DLP chip from TI.

Yeah, it's even dubbed "HD3" by TI. It has two main goals:

- Improved image quality (especially black levels)

- Lower cost

Lloyd, what do you think of DLP vs. regular projection TV? Is it worh the extra denarii? Especially with this 3rd gen sub-$2000 advance coming?

Also, any idea when "later this year" will be? Is is more like June, or more like Christmas?
We'll have to see about the image quality in shipping units, but TI reps I spoke with at CES believe that HD3 will enable sub-$2000 DLP rear projectors.

By Fall, there will also be TVs based on a 1080p DLP chip, but those will probably be at the high end.

[Case]

On Loyd Case's recommendation, I'm holding out until this summer myself. He says sets with the 3rd gen chip should be significantly cheaper, and probably better.

3rd gen chip?

The new models will feature the 3rd generation DLP chip from TI.

Yeah, it's even dubbed "HD3" by TI. It has two main goals:

- Improved image quality (especially black levels)

- Lower cost

Lloyd, what do you think of DLP vs. regular projection TV? Is it worh the extra denarii? Especially with this 3rd gen sub-$2000 advance coming?

Also, any idea when "later this year" will be? Is is more like June, or more like Christmas?
We'll have to see about the image quality in shipping units, but TI reps I spoke with at CES believe that HD3 will enable sub-$2000 DLP rear projectors.

By Fall, there will also be TVs based on a 1080p DLP chip, but those will probably be at the high end.

I have the current generation Samsung, which uses TI"s HD2 chip. On the positive side:

- Bright picture
- Great color decoder
- Good scaler
- Looks incredible on HD signals.

On the negative side:

- Black levels are really very dark gray. This is noticeable if you watch a movie that has lots of shadowy scenes. You lose some shadow detail.

- This TV reveals every image quality defect in the signal. So standard TV image quality, particularly if it's compressed (like satellite TV), varies all over the map. Normal CRT TVs can mask these defects.

From what I've seen of HD3 and the 1080p stuff, TI's made noticeable improvements, but I can't say how much until I get my hands on one.

[wisefool]

I purchased a 1080i panasonic 42" plasma recently (TH42-PHD6-uy is the model IIRC) It's the industrial model which means no speakers, no stand. I wanted 5.1 sound so I bought a pretty cheap pair of sats, mounted the sucker on an articulating arm. Pretty neat, so I can watch TV while eating.

Anyway there's a few things I'd do over again, hope this helps if anybody is building a new home theater:

1. Get a tv with discrete remote control codes. This is to simplify remote-control hell. Discrete RC codes means you can send one signal and the TV will switch to input 1, then another one sends it to input 3. My current TV only has an input code that will make it cycle - that is if it's in input X, pressing the button changes it to input X+1. This is handy if you want to get a universal remote and macro changes..

I have an external amp, the tv, dvd, and two cable boxes. One is the HD box, and the other is the directtivo (not HD, it has two tuners thought pretty neat.) The tivo output is a PS2, it is not composite.. So to switch between cable boxes I have to press the TV input button, and then change source on the AMP. It challenges the less tech-inclined members of the family. I had to take pictures of the remotes and laminate a diagram for them. (they are not that bad, they don't open attachments in the email, they know difference between RAM and hard drive space, heck they kinda know what swap space is.)

2. Get an amp with more inputs. My amp has two progressive inputs. One is taken up by the DVD, one is taken up by the HD cable box. Everything else either plugs directly into TV or goes into amp via PS2/COMPOSITE (crap crap quality!)

3. Consider getting ED instead of HD. ED is what they call 480p, this is DVD quality. True 1080i is very impressive, but the only programming that's been recorded in 1080i is the PBS stuff and discovery. there's only so many sharks and butterflies I can see before I get bored. There's a lot of channels with 1080i signals, but the content has been upconverted or something. It's nowhere near the quality. So the ED probably does a good enough job and save a couple of thousand anyway.. can prob get two ED panels for the price of one HD.

4. Cable vs. satellite

There's three sources of HD available for me. Off the air (OTA), there's Directv/Zoom/Dish and all those satellites, and there's Time Warner Cable with its nice monopoly. Have had both, can't really weight the signal quality between both. Satellite may in theory be cheaper, but I've had to purchase the HD box separately, paid retail. There's deals and stuff but you still spend anywhere from $99 to $500 on an HD box. Even if cable say costs $15 a week more, the $400 I spent on my HD box means i'd need 2 years + to pay it off. Seems a bit silly when TWC in my area will be or is already rolling out HD PVRs (albeit with one tuner) for a nominal monthly cost.

The HD Directivo will retail around $800-$1000 IIRC.

Directivo has some advantages - it costs only $99, it has dual tuners so I can record two thingies. It's trivial to upgrade the hard drive space compared with a replaytv, and has a fairly nice interface.

5. Get better speakers.

I spent about $1000 total on my sound setup. It's not much, I know. $300 for a Polk 5.1 satellite system, ~$300 for the amp, rest on DVD player, cabling, etc. It seems somewhat silly that I may have spent more time and money just running the cables in-wall (finished house, made a million holes and repainting is no fun. but at least I put nice modular jacks in place.) than I spent on the speakers. Fortunately now that the cabling in place is setup it is trivial to remove and put new ones.

The room is relatively large for these speakers. I have calibrated them properly with a radioshack SPL meter, and can barely hear the front left/right because of the positions involved. I would have placed them in different positions and gotten real speakers.. Unfortunately all I could get away with was silver-colored small satellites because of wife approval factor.

6. Run more wiring.

Since I'd gone through the trouble of fishing wire I should have run ethernet cabling as well: to stream mp3s from pc's, so I could play an online game, etc.

7. Checked distance between TV and sitting position.

I have a 42", I sit at 8.5 feet from TV. It's a tad too close for my eyes sometimes. Some standard definition programming is really bad quality, and it shows. Imagine playing battlefield in 640*480. The AVS forum guys have mentioned distance, I am glad I did not get a 50" TV because it really would be too close.

8. Lastly, checked more about the sat set top boxes.

My set top box was the cheapest HD box I could find in circuit city. It works but it is very clunky. Newer boxes have faster tuning (when channel surfing). My box suffers from a color distortion (things look reddish, I think it makes it look nicer on NTSC sets? does not belong on HD sets). I calibrated with a DVD, but that means my DVD is well calibrated. The only way to correct the cable box color "push" is to connect it directly to the TV because the TV has the ability to store different settings for different sources.

Consensus seems to be that 9-10 feet is a good distance for a 42".

[Kevin Grey]

. Consider getting ED instead of HD. ED is what they call 480p, this is DVD quality. True 1080i is very impressive, but the only programming that's been recorded in 1080i is the PBS stuff and discovery. there's only so many sharks and butterflies I can see before I get bored. There's a lot of channels with 1080i signals, but the content has been upconverted or something. It's nowhere near the quality. So the ED probably does a good enough job and save a couple of thousand anyway.. can prob get two ED panels for the price of one HD.



There is a lot more HD content than you give credit for. Most network broadcasts that aren't news shows or reality shows are filmed and broadcast in native HD, not upconverted. The only network that doesn't use HD is Fox, who broadcasts in ED. Almost all of CBS's primetime lineup is filmed in HD and most of ABCs is too. Most NBC hour long dramas are HD but their sitcoms are upconverted. Special HD sporting events and specials like the Oscars etc are also natively filmed and broadcast in HD.

Most movies broadcast on HBO HD and Showtime HD are using new HD transfers. A lot of original pay cable content on these stations (Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Carnivale) is also filmed and broadcast in HD.

There are quite a few cable stations that have HD counterparts but to get them you generally need to purchase the HD package from DirecTV. Don't know what HD Cable offers.

I think buying ED is a major mistake. Most people don't upgrade TVs like their computers. A good TV should last for ten years or more. Anyone even thinking about HD should get HD-ready at a minimum, not ED. There is a fairly decent array of programming already being offered in true HD and more and more channels are switching every year. HD DVDs should debut within the next 3-5 years. I also expect that next generation consoles will have more HD support than current generation and I won't be surprised if at least 720p is standard on pretty much every game.

If you are going to spend $1000 or more on a TV, the minimum you should get is HD- ready.