E3 2012 - Nintendo Press Conference Live Thread

[fuzzyslug]

Let's discuss the Nintendo conference in real-time.

Gamespot Feed: http://e3.gamespot.com/press-conference/nintendo-e3/?tag=Topslot;NintendoPressConferenceLive;NintendoP ressConference;LiveStreamStarts9amPt

IGN Feed: http://www.ign.com/events/e3/2012/live-video

[Brad Grenz]

Dude, I was just gonna start a thread!

[E-phonk]

devkit specs, confirmed by mod / trusted posters @ neogaf

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-premiere-wii-u-specs/


Main Application Processor

PowerPC architecture.
Three cores (fully coherent).
3MB aggregate L2 Cache size.
core 0: 512 KB
core 1: 2048 KB
core 2: 512 KB
Write gatherer per core.
Locked (L1d) cache DMA per core.

Main Memory

Up to 3GB of main memory (CAT-DEVs only). Note: retail machine will have half devkit memory
Please note that the quantity of memory available from the Cafe SDK and Operating System may vary.

Graphics and Video

Modern unified shader architecture.
32MB high-bandwidth eDRAM, supports 720p 4x MSAA or 1080p rendering in a single pass.
HDMI and component video outputs.

Features

Unified shader architecture executes vertex, geometry, and pixel shaders
Multi-sample anti-aliasing (2, 4, or 8 samples per pixel)
Read from multi-sample surfaces in the shader
128-bit floating point HDR texture filtering
High resolution texture support (up to 8192 x 8192)
Indexed cube map arrays

8 render targets
Independent blend modes per render target
Pixel coverage sample masking
Hierarchical Z/stencil buffer
Early Z test and Fast Z Clear
Lossless Z & stencil compression
2x/4x/8x/16x high quality adaptive anisotropic filtering modes
sRGB filtering (gamma/degamma)
Tessellation unit
Stream out support
Compute shader support

GX2 is a 3D graphics API for the Nintendo Wii U system (also known as Cafe). The API is designed to be as efficient as GX(1) from the Nintendo GameCube and Wii systems. Current features are modeled after OpenGL and the AMD r7xx series of graphics processors. Wii U’s graphics processor is referred to as GPU7.
Sound and Audio

Dedicated 120MHz audio DSP.
Support for 6 channel discrete uncompressed audio (via HDMI).
2 channel audio for the Cafe DRC controller.
Monaural audio for the Cafe Remote controller.

Networking

802.11 b/g/n Wifi.

Peripherals

2 x USB 2.0 host controllers x 2 ports each.
SDCard Slot.

Built-in Storage

512MB SLC NAND for System.
8GB MLC NAND for Applications.

Host PC Bridge

Dedicated Cafe-to-host PC bridge hardware.
Allows File System emulation by host PC.
Provides interface for debugger and logging to host PC.

[peterb]

Someone let me know if (a) they're announcing that they'll port Zelda to iOS or, instead, (b) it's just the same old bullshit that nobody cares about.

[E-phonk]

that nobody cares about.
Yeah, nobody buys nintendo games/consoles and they are certainly never amongst the highest rated games of their generation.

[peterb]

Yeah, nobody buys nintendo games/consoles and they are certainly never amongst the highest rated games of their generation.

I'm pretty sure I saw this exact same post 10 years ago, but with s/Nintendo/Sega/g.

Just sayin'.

[E-phonk]

It's on! e3.nintendo.com

they just confirmed: only Wii U games - 3DS games tomorrow in a seperate conference.

[CLWheeljack]

If they're focusing exclusively on WiiU, I hope they're actually planning on getting something interesting out of it, like secret information multiplayer kind of stuff.

[Telefrog]

Pikmin!

[E-phonk]

Yeah Pikmin!

[Ginger Yellow]

Pikmin and Shigsy. I'm sold.

[Brad Grenz]

Hmm, so 1.5GB memory, 32MB embedded VRAM, 3 core CPU and Radeon 4X00 derived shader architecture of indeterminate power... About what has been rumored. Close to current gen with more memory and more recent unified shaders.

[Blips]

ugh...

[Ginger Yellow]

Waiting for the TV to power on? Oh no. Not 2 seconds!

[Ginger Yellow]

Woo! Pikmin at last.

[Telefrog]

Look! A bulky tablet with a tiny screen! Or a giant Vita!

[Ginger Yellow]

Uh oh. Pikmin are like real ants. Does this mean there will be Pikmin cordyceps fungi?

[Brad Grenz]

Pikmin 3: Tilt Shift, you guys!

[Brad Grenz]

Pikmin 3: We invented the RTS you guys!

[LionelThompson]

Dare I ask what the price point is on this thing again? And will it be used in any effective way beyond strictly Nintendo titles?

[Blips]

Shaking your controller is fun!

[Telefrog]

And will it be used in any effective way beyond strictly Nintendo titles?

That's why they made the 360 copy controller!

[Ginger Yellow]

If there isn't 4 player co-op, I'm a monkey's uncle.

[fuzzyslug]

This is a lot of time on Pikmin.

[Ginger Yellow]

Ooh, playable. Launch title?

[Volksy]

Shaking the nunchuk to charge is a lot of fun!

[Woolen Horde]

Hmm, so 1.5GB memory, 32MB embedded VRAM, 3 core CPU and Radeon 4X00 derived shader architecture of indeterminate power... About what has been rumored. Close to current gen with more memory and more recent unified shaders.

I'm reading the 32MB as eDRAM, not VRAM. Isn't this basically the next generation of what ATI did for the 360? The 10MB of eDRAM that gave it "free" AA?

[Ginger Yellow]

Heh. It's all about the games. You fuck us, MS, we fuck you.

[Volksy]

Isn't that Games, Social, Entertainment graphic the Atari logo?

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, VRAM isn't necessarily the best term. It's basically just for framebuffer like the 360's 10MB, but 32MB is a better size for HD resolutions and MSAA. I would also guess the main RAM is not particularly fast, though.

[Ginger Yellow]

Interesting that they've been leading with a black model in this and the earlier video.

[Clay]

Reggie always opens his eyes so widely that he looks like he's about to go on a crazy rampage.

[Ginger Yellow]

We get the internet! Honest.

[fuzzyslug]

It's on! e3.nintendo.com

they just confirmed: only Wii U games - 3DS games tomorrow in a seperate conference.

Really? Bummer.

[Ginger Yellow]

Drink if you had disruption on your E3 bingo card.

[Mark L]

Assymetric gameplay?

Keep talking, Reggie.

[E-phonk]

2 gamepads!

[Ginger Yellow]

Up to 2 Gamepads confirmed. Wonder if they will both be full service.

[Mark L]

Anybody still use that plus shaped control pad? I haven't really touched them since the invention of the thumbstick.

[Lake]

Gamepads, how do they work?

[Ginger Yellow]

We can't call them triggers because Microsoft would sue us...

[LionelThompson]

Sorry if I'm a cynic, but how many hands do you need for this thing between the pads and the screen? Didn't they learn from Kid Icarus?

[Ginger Yellow]

Volume controls, how do they work?

[Slumberland]

In case of a loss of WiiU pressure, please activate your own gamepad before assisting others...

[Mark L]

Miiverse? Mo like zzzzverse

[Volksy]

Nintendo Home, er, Mainstreet.

[Blips]

just show us the games

[Mark L]

There's...gonna be a lot of dicks on main street.

[Slainte Mhath]

Just joined. Looking at some kind of convoluted Mii interface that looks like it wants to be a cross between Pinterest and Xbox Live. What the hell?

Mii-verse. Mii not want.

[Blips]

omg, emotes, how innovative!

[Ginger Yellow]

Your games, let me put ads and griefers in front of them.

[Ginger Yellow]

It's a him! Mario!

[E-phonk]

mario world! euh, I mean U!

[Slainte Mhath]

Jesus, does every new game for the Wii now have to have "U" at the end of the name?

[Ginger Yellow]

Seriously? The big Wii-U feature for Mario is optionally placing blocks?

[Mark L]

I liked the original direction they were taking with Super Mario Galaxy....why would I want to go back to 2D platform mario? I already played Rayman Origins.

[LionelThompson]

Mario is beautiful, but it's not $300 beautiful or whatever it will cost.

And Arkham City? A little late?

[Ginger Yellow]

I think the Joker just threw up in his mouth.

[E-phonk]

why would I want to go back to 2D platform mario?

Because SMBWii sold 27 million copies?

(mario galaxy 11 million)

[Ginger Yellow]

Actually, I can see Batman working really well on Wii-U - detective mode on the gamepad, so you can see the graphics on the big screen.

[pyjamarama]

Good thing this is all about the games 25 min to show two games.

[fuzzyslug]

Mario is beautiful, but it's not $300 beautiful or whatever it will cost.

And Arkham City? A little late?

Mario looks like it could be done just fine on the Wii. It looks just like the last one.

[Mark L]

Because SMBWii sold 27 million copies?

(mario galaxy 11 million)

Well, I can't blame them for chasing that money, but I personally am disappointed.

[Telefrog]

Looks neat. Too bad I already played this game.

[Ginger Yellow]

So...not Rocksteady then?

[TurinTur]

Jesus, does every new game for the Wii now have to have "U" at the end of the name?

Zombie U from Ubisoft!
Now the Ubisoft games for the Nintendo platform will end in U instead of Z, I suppose.

[pyjamarama]

They couldn't get e third party to show the WIIU version of an unreleased game.

[Brad Grenz]

Hey, guy, when your boss introduces you and says why you're there, you don't have to immediately reintroduce yourself and why you're there.

[Slainte Mhath]

Wow, that didn't look needlessly complicated at all!

[Ginger Yellow]

Scribblenauts! This time the controls don't suck quite so much!

[Blips]

very red shoes

[fuzzyslug]

Didn't they just rebrand the iOS version of Scribblenauts to Scribblenauts Unlimited?

[Ginger Yellow]

I'm wondering what puzzle needs an auto-mutt with a morning star coming out of its arse to solve.

[Telefrog]

Didn't they just rebrand the iOS version of Scribblenauts to Scribblenauts Unlimited?

Yes they did.

[Ginger Yellow]

Didn't they just rebrand the iOS version of Scribblenauts to Scribblenauts Unlimited?

No, the iOS version (which is pretty cool) doesn't have that separate item creator mode.

[Slainte Mhath]

Didn't they just rebrand the iOS version of Scribblenauts to Scribblenauts Unlimited?

At least it's not ScribblenaU...

[fuzzyslug]

No, the iOS version (which is pretty cool) doesn't have that separate item creator mode.

Yet?

It's also a hell of a lot cheaper.

[Volksy]

Now a bunch of ports that don't utilize the new controller for shit...

[pyjamarama]

How many unreleased games on the montage?

[Ginger Yellow]

Uh, the music genre died already, Reggie.

[Blips]

We have blood and monsters!

[Slainte Mhath]

Wii Fit rebranded as Wii FU? ;-)

40 million units lying unused in the corners of peoples homes.

[Ginger Yellow]

Wii Fit-U does not sound dodgy at all.

[Blips]

wtf, is this was passes for exercise?

[Telefrog]

How did that guy get her?

[Ginger Yellow]

"This game we're playing is so boring I'm going to watch a waterfall instead."

[Volksy]

"Honey, what's the number for the grass growing channel?"

[Volksy]

Karaoke U

[fuzzyslug]

This is a really lame party.

[LionelThompson]

Sorry, parties like this do not exist anywhere except in the minds of marketing.

[Ginger Yellow]

Wow, that takes some balls. Claim that other music games (you know, like Rock Band) involve one person on stage and other people watching. Then show precisely one person playing and the other people watching.

[Blips]

"This conference we're watching is so boring I'm going to watch a waterfall instead."
Fixed.

[Jazar]

They are definitely moving things along at a healthy pace. Not lingering on one game for too long is good.

[Brad Grenz]

Poor guy making Sing. You can tell by his eyes he's dead inside.

[Slainte Mhath]

Sing? God that looks awful. The tablet displays the lyrics, the screen shows the dance, and everyone can dance along (but not in the same way as a dance game because they don't have controllers or get scores).

So it's karaoke for the Wii U? Groundbreaking!

[Brad Grenz]

Needs more time. Good thing he blew a minute on a joke that flopped.

[copeknight]

There are millions of 3DS fans?

[Brad Grenz]

It's clearly different. Look how much uglier!

[Ginger Yellow]

"I'm not at all worried about losing my job. It's a good thing my platform has been marginalised at this presser."

[Blips]

Half of this conference has been spent talking about things that will be talked about later...

[fuzzyslug]

A separate 3DS show does show a level of commitment that the Vita doesn't have.

[Slainte Mhath]

They're marketing this as 2D Mario for 3DS. <head explodes>

On the bright side, now you can play for longer than 15 minutes kids!

[triggercut]

They are definitely moving things along at a healthy pace. Not lingering on one game for too long is good.

They're gonna talk about "Games you've already played on other consoles" or "2D platformer Mario" or Wii Fit U or that SiNG abomination for more than a few minutes each?

[Ginger Yellow]

A separate 3DS show does show a level of commitment that the Vita doesn't have.

That really isn't saying much. Sony's commitment to Vita is about as deep as a puddle.

Yay, Paper Mario 3DS.

[Jazar]

They're gonna talk about "Games you've already played on other consoles" or "2D platformer Mario" or Wii Fit U or that SiNG abomination for more than a few minutes each?

I could easily see them wasting 20 minutes doing live demos for Wii Fit U & Sing.

[pyjamarama]

I don't believe that Nintendo ever saturated the market with so many Mario games at the same time

[Ginger Yellow]

Wow, Luigi is "holiday season"? I thought it was imminent.

[pyjamarama]

At least the 3DS seems to getting some solid titles, 10-1 when compared to the Vita

[fuzzyslug]

Castlevania: looks interesting
Mickey - looks like a Game Gear game
Scribblenauts - looks the same
Kingdom Hearts - looks like Kingdom Hearts

[LionelThompson]

They are really going out of their way to distance themselves from a 'kids' console, what between the Mickey Mouse and the Lego and the Pikmin and the Scribblenauts.

[Ginger Yellow]

WTF? GTA Lego?

[Volksy]

Dismemberment! Finally something interesting.

[Ginger Yellow]

Pikmin isn't a kids game. It's about as hardcore as Nintendo gets.

[Ginger Yellow]

Seriously? People are applauding "something for everyone"?

[Telefrog]

Lego nutshot. It's like a dream come true.

[fuzzyslug]

I'm still waiting to see something that justifies the WiiU controller. Not really seeing it.

[peterb]

"How do you feel about the Wii U? Please, don't be honest."

[Ginger Yellow]

"How do you feel about Wii-U?"

"I feel we will sell a shit-ton of Just Dance."

[Slainte Mhath]

I love Yves, but he's terrible at this live stuff.

[sluggo]

I can't take this any more.

WHY DO THEY LET PEOPLE LIKE THIS TALK AT E3?

Seriously, that 3DS guy had the stage presence of a 10 year old in his first school play. With all the money these companies spend on these games and these giant press conferences, why can't they spring a few extra bucks to have someone who's comfortable on stage deliver their message?

I mean, the 3DS guy going "where's the love?" and getting crickets in return was just brutal. That's a guy who doesn't know how to work a crowd inadvertently turning his product into a punchline.

Now Reggie and Yves are having this ridiculous phony conversation. "I hear you've brought some games today!" Is it just an ego thing that these execs feel they have to be the ones on stage delivering the message?

[Slainte Mhath]

The strippers are back!

[Ginger Yellow]

Even Nintendo are using wired gamepads. Guess they don't want a repeat of the Skyward Sword cock-up last time.

[Ginger Yellow]

Wii-U: You're not in the game.

[LionelThompson]

Just Dance 4: Even the fatties can play now

[Ginger Yellow]

Hey, Tom! Zombies!

[Slainte Mhath]

This Xavier guy is actually pretty good at this live stuff. Ubisoft should make him the host next year instead of the lame duo they had this time around.

[Telefrog]

Sweet! More games about dancing! This is what we've all been missing in our lives.

[Brad Grenz]

Enjoy this simulated gameplay!

[Lake]

I want the game where you have to use the WiiU, 3DS and Balance Board all at the same time. Innovation.

[peterb]

Zombie Reggie Fils-Aime looks just like normal Reggie Fils-Aime!

[Ginger Yellow]

As if Reggie's face wasn't scary enough.

[fuzzyslug]

Zombi U looks neat but any launch game from Ubisoft gives me Red Steel flashbacks (let's use every feature we can think of).

[Telefrog]

ZombiU went from "interesting" to "fuck it" thanks to seeing all the goofy hold up the WiiU gameplay.

[sluggo]

Is it wrong that I want NintendoLand to be a real theme park and not a virtual one?

[Ginger Yellow]

Pack-in game?

[Fozzle]

So the real winner this year seems to be.. Ubisoft? the only conference they were not in so far was the EA one.

EDIT: How do you misspell EA?!?

[pyjamarama]

thinking of theme park getting mini game collection

[JD]

So, no new brand up to this point, and now we're getting a mini-game collection that involves all the old ones. Hrms.

[Jazar]

I'm so sick of Miis

[fuzzyslug]

thinking of theme park getting mini game collection

One with at least one terrible mini-game.

[Paul_cze]

This conference is so unbelievably boring.

[Brad Grenz]

Man, the Spike stream looks great in HD until every time the cut to gameplay. Either there is some terrible compression happening somewhere in the chain, or WiiU games are profoundly ugly.

[Ginger Yellow]

Woah! Sorry for the OT comment, but EDF 3 for Vita! (www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-05-earth-defense-force-3-portable-coming-to-playstation-vita)

[LionelThompson]

Mario Party: the MMO

[Ginger Yellow]

Two gamepads halves framerate (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-05-wii-u-to-support-two-game-pads).

[JD]

Let us remind you of all the shallow stuff that annoyed you core people on the Wii!

[Jazar]

Well so much for moving things along ZZzzzzzzzz

[Volksy]

Hide and Seek U! It's innovative! Trust us!

[bakka bakka bakka]

This Luigi game looks like it could be great fun but it is not material for the stage.

[E-phonk]

Let us remind you of all the shallow stuff that annoyed you core people on the Wii!
30 fps is still ok I guess for what it'll be used.

[interman]

*claps because he's done talking*

[Jazar]

Please no i don't want to.

[Telefrog]

Two gamepads halves framerate (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-05-wii-u-to-support-two-game-pads).

I like that they say the framerate "will halve to 30 frames per second" as if all games ship at 60 fps.

[Nephrinn]

Nintendoland...what a heaping pile of shit. Seriously.

[Slainte Mhath]

Is it just Mii (ha!), or does all the Wii U gamepad stuff so far seem like it was created to justify the existence of the device rather than developed from the ground up to be something really new and innovative? It just feels like all this extra screen/controller shit is just tacked on. I want to see a AAA title (not a bunch of mini-games) that was created with the device in mind from the get go. Say like Aliens : Colonial Marines where the tablet becomes the movement tracking device from the movies, and switches roles to become a remote piloting device for the dropship, a systems interface for the computers on the colony, and other things that might actually make it feel immersive.

[Ginger Yellow]

This Luigi game looks like it could be great fun but it is not material for the stage.

Well it is in the sense that we still have no real idea what the gamepad is for ,and Nintendoland is supposed to be the "this is how you do it" game.

"Launched at the same time"? So not a pack-in? That seems strange.

[fuzzyslug]

The art direction for Nintendo land is terrible. My eyes!

[Jazar]

NOOOOOO! MAKE IT STOP!!!

[Fozzle]

The art direction for Nintendo land is terrible. My eyes!

God no kidding, was there a color they didn't use on that?!? I had a mini seisure in that segment I think.

[JD]

Disappointing. Loving the look of Pikmin 3, but I don't really care about the rest, be it new stuff or extended ports of games that got released months ago.

[Slainte Mhath]

I am disappoint.

[E-phonk]

Pikmin was the only exciting thing.

[Ginger Yellow]

Well, I guess I'm going to have to buy the damn thing for Pikmin, and maybe Mario, and at least it's cheap, but god damn it looks terrible as hardware.

[interman]

Definitely been a few years since I've been this disinterested in Nintendo's conference

[Theodore Rex DX]

Absolute garbage.

[Brad Grenz]

I just think having a screen on the controller is a fundamentally bad idea. I don't want to constantly look down at my hands when I'm playing a game. Most of the ideas being floated could just as easily be accomplished by an overlay on the main screen. Since I'm not looking at my TV while I'm staring at the inventory, or scanner or map, it doesn't matter if obscures my main view.

[Ginger Yellow]

Stream is still going on, by the way. Iwata showing something more.

[Nephrinn]

OH...MY...GOD...that family promo with the WiiU was just...I have no words.

[LionelThompson]

Well, I guess I'm going to have to buy the damn thing for Pikmin, and maybe Mario, and at least it's cheap, but god damn it looks terrible as hardware.

I look at my Wii that I have now and see how it gathers dust compared to the XBox and the PS3, and honestly, I can't see myself getting excited about it. Maybe I missed it, being on the outside, but no mention of processing power, ease of online capabilities, or anything beyond their gimmick of this generation, and just can't get excited. Make the price $250, and maybe I'd be interested, but then you still have to add in the games, the inevitable second screen thingy, and the whole thing screams 'meh'.

[fuzzyslug]

Overall, I have to say it the conference was pretty lame.

Reason for the WiiU? Lacking
Price? Missing
Release date? Nope
Nintendoland? Really?

[Telefrog]

Holy crap, this is bad.

[Ginger Yellow]

This is basically the same tag game as last year, isn't it?


I don't want to constantly look down at my hands when I'm playing a game. Most of the ideas being floated could just as easily be accomplished by an overlay on the main screen.

I keep saying to myself that that's what I thought about the DS, and look how that turned out, but Nintendo aren't doing anything to dispel the idea that it's totally a gimmick. They've had at least a year to come up with a killer app and they've got nothing.

[CLWheeljack]

Is it just Mii (ha!), or does all the Wii U gamepad stuff so far seem like it was created to justify the existence of the device rather than developed from the ground up to be something really new and innovative? It just feels like all this extra screen/controller shit is just tacked on. I want to see a AAA title (not a bunch of mini-games) that was created with the device in mind from the get go. Say like Aliens : Colonial Marines where the tablet becomes the movement tracking device from the movies, and switches roles to become a remote piloting device for the dropship, a systems interface for the computers on the colony, and other things that might actually make it feel immersive.

You can argue that Nintendo always designs their UI (i.e. controllers) with a single game in mind, and then forces everything else to conform. IIRC:

N64: Mario 64
Gamecube: Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker
Wii: Wii Sports, Mario Galaxy
DS: Nintendogs

[interman]

RIP Nintendo

[Ginger Yellow]

Tilt control, seriously? That's what the Wii remote was for.

[Telefrog]

Damn. I really hate this "family" playing the games.

[Ginger Yellow]

The thing I really don't undestand is that with the Wii, Nintendo was relentlessly on message. Every ad, every preview, had to show people doing the activities as well as the game screen. With the Wii-U, given that their whole message is "Together. Better." and "asymmetric gameplay" surely they should be forcing every video to show why the gamepad is necessary, and also how the player with the gamepad interacts with the Wii remote players. Yet they've shown a ton of videos with just a single-player doing stuff that they could do with any modern gamepad.

[Nephrinn]

http://tinyurl.com/d5am2bf

[Teiman]

I like bananas. I like what Nintendo is doing here. Nintendo seems the monkey that shake the tree tryiing to make the fruit fall, while the other monkeys just look in disdain and lazyness.

[Theodore Rex DX]

They've failed. This is a poor product.

[Ginger Yellow]

Again, a single player, not using the gamepad at all, while other people watch. WTF Nintendo?

[Volksy]

Nintendo Land reminded me way too much of this gag map from TF2: (seizure warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9pE1PEqf_M

[E-phonk]

they are teasing a "huge exclusive" unknown wii u title at spiketv in a few minutes...

[Brad Grenz]

I keep saying to myself that that's what I thought about the DS, and look how that turned out, but Nintendo aren't doing anything to dispel the idea that it's totally a gimmick. They've had at least a year to come up with a killer app and they've got nothing.

The DS presaged the touch interface revolution, and while the dual screens were an ugly solution to the high cost of larger LCD screens at the time, at least they were literally right on top of one another. You're already looking at your hands. They're basically a single, tall screen arbitrarily divided for UI purposes.

Wii U comes years after the DS, years after the iPhone, years after the iPad, and with a crappy old single touch resistive screen. It's literally playing catch-up and doing so with inferior technology.

[E-phonk]

It's by platinum games: Project P100

[Brad Grenz]

Oh, they're about to show a Platinum Games title for Wii U on Spike.

[Ginger Yellow]

And now Nintendo is showing the Zombi-U trailer again.

[JD]

Reggie bullshitting on Spike TV, basically saying that Batman: Arkham City on Wii U is so loaded with new content that it can be considered a different game.

[Volksy]

Yeah, I realize Reggie has to put a positive spin on things, but that's some grade-A bullshitting there.

[JD]

That guy manages to even look slightly angry at Geoff Keighley, the master of softball questions.

[Theodore Rex DX]

That guy manages to even look slightly angry at Geoff Keighley, the master of softball questions.

He gave Reggie some shit last year, believe it or not.

[CLWheeljack]

Anybody watching Spike TV have any impressions of Project P100?

[E-phonk]

It's up on the E3 press site, including youtube:

http://media.nintendo.com/pressroom/E32012/index.html

Edit: all wii U games. There is a wario game in there..
http://media.nintendo.com/pressroom/E32012/WiiU/WiiU_Upcoming_Games_List_E312.pdf

[Brad Grenz]

Anybody watching Spike TV have any impressions of Project P100?

They've teased it, but not shown it yet.

[E-phonk]

More info:
http://e3src.nintendo.com/wiiu/

Project P100 (platinum)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr4D4YZQ9uY

[Ginger Yellow]

So, if that's accurate, I'm really confused. Not only is Nintendoland clearly not a pack-in ("holiday" release rather than "launch window"), but it's not even a launch title, as they clearly indicated at the presser. Not that I particularly care about the game, but like I say, their messaging seems to be all over the place. Also, they have a grand total of 4 launch window titles, with no third party games.

[CLWheeljack]

More info:
http://e3src.nintendo.com/wiiu/


Cool, thanks!

So...the first screenshot looks like a robot with a giant red phallus.

But looking closer, it looks like it's along the lines of King of Monsters meets Viewtiful Joe meets Pikmin, which I can get behind. Platinum is still on my insta-buy list.

[E-phonk]

Project p100 by the director & producer of Okami/Bayonetta (Kamiya & Inaba)

[Woolen Horde]

I like bananas. I like what Nintendo is doing here. Nintendo seems the monkey that shake the tree tryiing to make the fruit fall, while the other monkeys just look in disdain and lazyness.

Have you seen Nintendo's recent quarterly performances? Yes, the strong yen isn't helping, but they've lost all momentum. The heady days of the Wii and DS printing money are over. The Wii is a dying platform. The 3DS needed a big price cut for it to start moving. And Apple/Android are bringing all sorts of pressure that didn't exist five years ago.

I think the Wii-U is a really tough sell. I can't see it selling anywhere as much as the Wii. There just isn't any enthusiasm, unlike when the Wii was rolled out. And there's that issue that a whole ton of people bought Wiis but never really used them. My parents are a prime example. It looked cool, they played it for about a week. They never used it again. That's a lot of apathy to overcome.

[Teiman]

Project P100 (platinum)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr4D4YZQ9uY

Well, this looks fantastic. Amazing so much people have a strong negative opinion. ...a lot of people still don't get videogames. Even people that have played Call of Duty or Halo for 8 years, don't "get it". Videogames are not about male teenager power fantasies.

[Blips]

Am I misremembering, or wasn't the initial reaction to the Wii pretty mediocre as well?

[CLWheeljack]

I think the Wii-U is a really tough sell. I can't see it selling anywhere as much as the Wii. There just isn't any enthusiasm, unlike when the Wii was rolled out. And there's that issue that a whole ton of people bought Wiis but never really used them. My parents are a prime example. It looked cool, they played it for about a week. They never used it again. That's a lot of apathy to overcome.

I don't disagree, but both the Wii and the DS were freakishly enormous successes. Saying that the WiiU won't sell as much as the Wii isn't a very good benchmark for success. There's a lot of room between failure and Wii numbers.

[E-phonk]

Am I misremembering, or wasn't the initial reaction to the Wii pretty mediocre as well?
They had some cool software reveals for nintendo fans though. Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Fire Emblem... And a few hours after the conference they revealed smash brosh Brawl. Also, Wii Sports was a new concept back then, so people were interested.

Nintendo also showed some odd titles like project hammer, Excite trucks, Wario Ware Smooth Moves, final fantasy chronicles, Disaster etc..


The only positive thing is that apparently all these games are for the first 2 months - they haven't really shown anything for 2013 Q1 and beyond.

[Rod Humble]

Am I misremembering, or wasn't the initial reaction to the Wii pretty mediocre as well?

Maybe misremembering? I seem to remember it was incredibly positive. It just looked fun and innovative.

[Quaro]

The initial reaction to the Wii was negative right up until they started showing people playing Wii Sports on stage and everyone went, holy crap, this is like virtual reality. It was only later when the limitations of the control interface came out and the avalanche of 'games with waggle option' become the standard that everyone was down on it.

It really looked like you could spin tennis serves and do all this crazy stuff in the demo.

[Brakara]

The only positive thing is that apparently all these games are for the first 2 months - they haven't really shown anything for 2013 Q1 and beyond.

Is the so-called launch window 2012 only? I doubt it.

[Telefrog]

Am I misremembering, or wasn't the initial reaction to the Wii pretty mediocre as well?

Before E3, the general opinion on the Wii was "WTF?" During and after E3, it was "oh shit, Nintendo is going to make a ton of money."

The Wii-U reception feels a lot different.

[Fozzle]

Before E3, the general opinion on the Wii was "WTF?" During and after E3, it was "oh shit, Nintendo is going to make a ton of money."

The Wii-U reception feels a lot different.

This is how I remember it too. When the Wii hit, there was a bunch of buzz and everyone was at least talking about it, good or bad. The WiiU excitement seems to have died before it left the gate, but maybe it's still premature. We will have to wait and see how the next few days shape up. Lets see what Nintendo marketing dollars buys them in the form of frenzied hype...

[E-phonk]

Is the so-called launch window 2012 only? I doubt it.

Almost all games say "holiday 2012" - only the first party games say "launch window" on the nintendo press site.
Nintendoland and mario U are both "launch window" but Reggie confirmed them both on launch day.

The most remarkable thing was the lack of their internal "core" teams. Retro, EAD2, EAD Tokyo, Monolith soft.. They are all developing Wii U titles, we know this for sure. I feel the reactions would've been different if they had a small teaser for some of their projects.

Also the lack of 3rd party sport games and CoD..

[Teiman]

Have you seen Nintendo's recent quarterly performances? Yes, the strong yen isn't helping, but they've lost all momentum. The heady days of the Wii and DS printing money are over. The Wii is a dying platform. The 3DS needed a big price cut for it to start moving. And Apple/Android are bringing all sorts of pressure that didn't exist five years ago.

I am not a fan of nintendo, but I appreciate the "tryiing" part. Even if the result is not ultimatelly succesful, success is a result of different variables, one of then quality, but others luck, timing, etc.

[Brad Grenz]

They finally showed real gameplay of ZombiU on Spike's stream. It looks utterly mundane and a far cry from the CGI gameplay simulation shown during the presentation.

[Brakara]

Almost all games say "holiday 2012" - only the first party games say "launch window" on the nintendo press site.


P-100 and Scribblenauts were launch window, at least that's what they said on Gametrailers live feed. I would be surprised if there aren't more (e.g., Aliens Colonial Marines are for sure).

[Theodore Rex DX]

I am not a fan of nintendo, but I appreciate the "tryiing" part. Even if the result is not ultimatelly succesful, success is a result of different variables, one of then quality, but others luck, timing, etc.

This is Nintendo at their worst, creatively. They are recycling their own shit. That Luigi ghost hunt minigame in the Nintendo Land pack is a clone of Pac Man Vs, a game they were laughed out of E3 for back when they were demonstrating GBA-> GC connectivity. I was stunned, literally, when I saw them trying it on again.

Wii U comes off as an extremely me-too product and I don't understand at all where you are getting the idea that this is something different or interesting. At this point, not having any kind of touchscreen interface would be more novel.
I seriously don't see how this thing made it into the planning stages.
It's a bad joke, and they are going to lose a lot of marketshare.

[Jason Becker]

Two gamepads halves framerate (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-05-wii-u-to-support-two-game-pads).

They apparently have battery lives of between 3 to 5 hours...people will really enjoy their controller going dead on them all the time.

[ibdoomed]

WiiU does look really bad but hey, I bought a 360 so I'm obviously a sucker. I didn't read all 8 pages, have they mentioned a price?

[Brad Grenz]

nope.

[CLWheeljack]

This is Nintendo at their worst, creatively. They are recycling their own shit. That Luigi ghost hunt minigame in the Nintendo Land pack is a clone of Pac Man Vs, a game they were laughed out of E3 for back when they were demonstrating GBA-> GC connectivity. I was stunned, literally, when I saw them trying it on again.


The GBA->GC connectivity was poison from a logistics perspective, but it unquestionably provided a unique player experience. Now, you could argue that today, with more ubiquitous internet gaming and with less emphasis on same-room multiplayer, it's a concept that online MP has obsoleted. But it's an interesting game design, and totally asymmetric multiplayer is still pretty rare.

[ibdoomed]

nope.

That's not a good sign. Wasn't the cheapness of the wii a big opening reveal?

[Theodore Rex DX]

That's not a good sign. Wasn't the cheapness of the wii a big opening reveal?

It probably means they are unsure how people are going to react.
I think this will sell poorly at just about any price. Certainly compared to Wii.

[Paul_cze]

Hmmmm, so
1. Pikmin 3 2. New Super Mario Bros. U 3. Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition 4. Scribblenauts Unlimited 5. Darksiders 2 6. Mass Effect 3 7. Tank! Tank! Tank! 8. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 9. Trine 2: Director's Cut 10. Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge 11. Aliens: Colonial Marines 12. Wii Fit U 13. Sing 14. Lego City: Undercover 15. Just Dance 4 16. ZombiU 17. Assassin's Creed 3 18. Rabbids Land 19. YourShape: Fitness Evolved 2013 20. Rayman Legends 21. Sports Connection 22. The Avengers: Battle for Earth 23. Nintendo Land

Interested in: none of them
Score for Wee Urinal: 0/10, maybe next time.

[E-phonk]

I'd be interested in pikmin 3, NSMBU and Rayman (origins was a really good platformer on ps3). I also kind of liked the first darksiders on ps3.
But that's not enough to get it at launch for me.

My girlfriend liked the line-up though. For her it was pikmin, mario, scribblenauts, wii fit u, lego city, just dance4, sing and for a reason I can't explain: zombiU.

But unless nintendo shows more before launch that is coming soon after, i don't think I'm going to buy it atm. Between PC, PS3 and 3DS I have enough to play this holiday.

[Armando Penblade]

Wait, I thought I read elsewhere in this thread that the touchscreen on this sucker is resistive. REALLY?

[Jazar]

I just think having a screen on the controller is a fundamentally bad idea. I don't want to constantly look down at my hands when I'm playing a game. Most of the ideas being floated could just as easily be accomplished by an overlay on the main screen. Since I'm not looking at my TV while I'm staring at the inventory, or scanner or map, it doesn't matter if obscures my main view.

Agreed and there's no way I'm going to buy a "current generation" console today when next gen is around the corner. I'd rather just upgrade my video card this year.

[CLWheeljack]

Wait, I thought I read elsewhere in this thread that the touchscreen on this sucker is resistive. REALLY?

Presumably it's the same as the touchscreen on the 3DS.

Aside from multi-touch, what exactly is is about resistive screens that people find inferior? I know that Nintendo prefers them because they're cheaper, but wiki says they're more accurate, but less responsive than capacitative.

I don't know how big of a deal the differential of responsiveness will be. On phones, it's useful because it's the only input option, so a lot of gestural type stuff needs to be very responsive to feel natural at all. But on this, you have so many buttons, already, it may not be an issue, since the screen may just be for selections. Somebody mentioned single-touch only as well, and similarly, I don't know how big of a deal that is.

I've wished that the DS had better accuracy (i.e. finer resolution on touch screen), but I don't think I've noticed any other problems with it, really.

[JD]

Am I misremembering, or wasn't the initial reaction to the Wii pretty mediocre as well?

Um... no. I was at E3 2006 when the thing got unveiled, and the buzz on the showfloor was HUGE. The waiting line was ridiculously long. Everyone was talking about it.

[Andy Bates]

The GBA->GC connectivity was poison from a logistics perspective, but it unquestionably provided a unique player experience.

Exactly. I'm glad they are at least trying something new. What other options do they have? Create another system that uses a controller identical to the 360 and PS3, and plays exactly the same games exactly the same way? Personally, I thought the Nintendo press conference showed a lot more originality than, say, the Microsoft press conference. I'm more excited to try some of these Wii U games than yet another first-person shooter where you climb out of your crashed jeep right before a plane crashes and bounces over you while you remain miraculously unharmed. And as a gameplay system, Wii U seems more exciting than the Kinect offerings on tap.

[Theodore Rex DX]

Why is the dichotomy 'Microsoft/Kinect' and 'GBA connectivity'? I expect more of Nintendo than I do MS - certainly more than this. I think they needed something more interesting than this, and I'm not so cynical that I think this is as good as they could have done. There are some decent-looking games for it, but nothing amazing or close to being on par with the best or most creative they offered this generation - and they've been dragged over the coals for those offerings by the peanut gallery. This time out I don't think either they or the mass market will bite.

[Brad Grenz]

Exactly. I'm glad they are at least trying something new. What other options do they have? Create another system that uses a controller identical to the 360 and PS3, and plays exactly the same games exactly the same way? Personally, I thought the Nintendo press conference showed a lot more originality than, say, the Microsoft press conference. I'm more excited to try some of these Wii U games than yet another first-person shooter where you climb out of your crashed jeep right before a plane crashes and bounces over you while you remain miraculously unharmed. And as a gameplay system, Wii U seems more exciting than the Kinect offerings on tap.

Microsoft is hardly a a difficult bar to clear. Their conference was a creativity black hole compared to either Ubisoft or Sony's, let alone Nintendo. I don't think they showed a single game that wasn't at least the third iteration of that franchise on the 360. And Halo, Black Ops 2, Tomb Raider are all above 6 games overall (Splinter Cell and Forza narrowly miss at 5 each)... Don't even ask about Madden!


Presumably it's the same as the touchscreen on the 3DS.

Aside from multi-touch, what exactly is is about resistive screens that people find inferior? I know that Nintendo prefers them because they're cheaper, but wiki says they're more accurate, but less responsive than capacitative.

I don't know how big of a deal the differential of responsiveness will be. On phones, it's useful because it's the only input option, so a lot of gestural type stuff needs to be very responsive to feel natural at all. But on this, you have so many buttons, already, it may not be an issue, since the screen may just be for selections. Somebody mentioned single-touch only as well, and similarly, I don't know how big of a deal that is.

I've wished that the DS had better accuracy (i.e. finer resolution on touch screen), but I don't think I've noticed any other problems with it, really.

Resistive screens just feel sticky. You have to press down to register touches and any gestures that would feel natural on a capacitive screen, standard swipes, etc, involve a lot more friction because you have to keep pressure with your finger. You could see how awkward that was during the Rayman demo at Ubisoft's presser whenever they cut to a shot of the guy working the screen. The Wii U screen isn't multitouch, either, so you can forget about pinches and other multi-digit inputs. Resistive screens are better for drawing with a stylus, but people who want a tool for art should probably buy a Wacom instead of a gaming console. For literally everyone else capacitive is unquestionably superior.

[Case]

Um... no. I was at E3 2006 when the thing got unveiled, and the buzz on the showfloor was HUGE. The waiting line was ridiculously long. Everyone was talking about it.

FWIW, the Nintendo booth was packed on the show floor today, with deep lines at the Wii U stations.

[Armando Penblade]

I seem to recall all of the negative press surround the Wii unveil being pissed off neckbeards (self proudly included) who thought "Wii" was a fuck-load stupider sounding than "Revolution."

Thought it was cute how they kept slipping "revolutionary" into today's presser.

[Telefrog]

How confusing and miscommunicated is the Wii U concept? CNN still thinks (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/tech/gaming-gadgets/wii-u-demo-e3/) it's an accessory for the current Wii.



Will Nintendo's forthcoming Wii U controller breathe new life into its aging Wii console?
Hard to say at this point, but the Wii U is a solid accessory that will bring a fresh element to Nintendo gaming.

[GregB]

How confusing and miscommunicated is the Wii U concept? CNN still thinks (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/tech/gaming-gadgets/wii-u-demo-e3/) it's an accessory for the current Wii.

Wow. That's pathetic for both CNN and Nintendo.

[Telefrog]

I have co-workers that thought it was an accessory as well.

That doesn't absolve CNN, but I think it does point to an issue that Nintendo is going to have to overcome this holiday season. People are going to think the Wii U is an add-on to their current Wii consoles.

[Armando Penblade]

I have co-workers that thought it was an accessory as well.

That doesn't absolve CNN, but I think it does point to an issue that Nintendo is going to have to overcome this holiday season. People are going to think the Wii U is an add-on to their current Wii consoles.

In a strict sense, it is an add-on for your existing Wiimotes, MotionPlus addons, and Wii Fit Balance Board; if you've got a full raft of those, they easily outstrip the cost of a console.

[Jazar]

How confusing and miscommunicated is the Wii U concept? CNN still thinks (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/tech/gaming-gadgets/wii-u-demo-e3/) it's an accessory for the current Wii.

Heh they have since edited it out:


Will Nintendo's forthcoming Wii U breathe new life into its aging Wii concept?

[Telefrog]

I'm pretty sure Miiverse is some kind of sick joke anyway, but this is really dumb:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-07-nintendo-human-resources-must-approve-your-miiverse-posts



Messages posted to Miiverse, Nintendo's suite of Wii U social functions, could face a delay of around 30 minutes to appear.

This is because the social networking service will be actively moderated by Nintendo-employed "human resources" personnel.

Each message posted to Miiverse, displayed on the Wii U desktop and in specific areas in Wii U software, will need to be read and verified before it becomes visible.

Nintendo boss Satoru Iwata said he thought a delay of half an hour when posting messages was fine.

[ibdoomed]

I'm pretty sure Miiverse is some kind of sick joke anyway, but this is really dumb:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-07-nintendo-human-resources-must-approve-your-miiverse-posts

Ah, so there's only going to be about 100 actual users...

[CLWheeljack]

I'm pretty sure Miiverse is some kind of sick joke anyway, but this is really dumb:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-07-nintendo-human-resources-must-approve-your-miiverse-posts

Yeah, that's pretty stupid, but it doesn't specify if it's 30 minute for all messages or up to 30 minutes. I would assume that they only have humans read messages that the automated system flags, or something like that, so that upper bound would only come up for a flagged message at peak times. But they don't want to guarantee 30 minutes as the hard upper limit, thus the weasel words.

That's what I assume, at least. Otherwise it's just unbelievably stupid.

[Telefrog]

I don't think Nintendo understands the internet at all.



The attraction of a social network is the immediacy of the feedback," Iwata explained to LA Times. But Nintendo needed to balance that with the need to make the service child-friendly, he continued.

"Personally, I think 30 minutes [delay] should be acceptable."

[JD]

FWIW, the Nintendo booth was packed on the show floor today, with deep lines at the Wii U stations.

I didn't mean to say that people don't care enough to check it out. It's a new device, and it's from Nintendo after all. I'm pretty sure people also lined up when they introduced the Virtual Boy.

You too attended E3 2006, Loyd, and you surely would agree that the feedback the Wii received then was different from what people are saying now. I'm not in L.A. this year, but based on what I'm hearing from friends it's mostly along the lines of "Hum." or "Well, it's ok." But it's not like people go "OMG, did you check this out already?!" before they even say "Hi, how are you?" or immediatly start brainstorming potential game concepts for the system.

The Wii had new stuff we hadn't seen before because it was wildly different. And since no one had to time to spend hours with the tech demos, few knew about it limitations of its controller. Now it's mostly "Oh well, it's a controller with your average cheap singletouch display that will run 3- 5 hours until it needs to get recharged."

Same for the software. Hardly anything new. Project P-100 could have been easily done on any other system. I'm sure Nintendo Land will sell buttloads of copies, but honestly, how excited am I supposed to get about a mini-game collection at this point after the flood we've had on the Wii? Pikmin 3? Looks great. But we know Pikmin. And now we get Pikmin with fancy graphics. Nothing wrong with that, but Pikmin didn't make the Gamecube a success either.

[Ginger Yellow]

Each message posted to Miiverse, displayed on the Wii U desktop and in specific areas in Wii U software, will need to be read and verified before it becomes visible.


Oh, wow. Maybe Nintendo should outsource this to China's internet police.


I would assume that they only have humans read messages that the automated system flags, or something like that, so that upper bound would only come up for a flagged message at peak times.

Unless they have really good phallus recognition algorithms, I don't see how this is possible for the picture messages.

[HumanTon]

So having Nintendo read your mail is a feature?

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a mustachioed plumber jumping on a human face — forever.

[Ginger Yellow]

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a mustachioed plumber jumping on a human face — forever.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how Nintendo see the future.

[CLWheeljack]

I didn't see the whole press conference, so I'm not clear: did they show how friends lists, etc. would work? I wonder if these limitations might only apply to people outside your friends list, or something like that.

[Teiman]

Yeah, that's pretty stupid, but it doesn't specify if it's 30 minute for all messages or up to 30 minutes. I would assume that they only have humans read messages that the automated system flags, or something like that, so that upper bound would only come up for a flagged message at peak times. But they don't want to guarantee 30 minutes as the hard upper limit, thus the weasel words.

That's what I assume, at least. Otherwise it's just unbelievably stupid.

Its not new. There are moderated blogs, irc channels and mails list. You dont do this normally because scale horribly bad and delays grown exponentially. The wait of 30 minutes or 30 hours is what you pay to have a wallet garden safe for small kids. I am ockay with this, mostly.

[Jonathan Blow]

People seem to be forgetting about the Great Wii Stampede of 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeR0fL9ofYY

(There used to be a really great video of people running right by Sony's empty PS3 booth to get there, and a frustrated Sony guy reacting to it; video seems to have been pulled from YouTube, though.)

What is happening this week is certainly not that.

I personally expect that the Wii U is DOA. It's a really bad idea. But as always, we'll see what actually happens.

[Brad Grenz]

Both the WiiU and 3DS hardware design are a troubling amalgamation of clashing, and even self defeating concepts. If you're making a WiiU game you have 4 different control setups you could be targeting, not counting the balance board. There's no clear vision at work. Nintendo just seems to be flailing.

[CLWheeljack]

Anybody actually watch Nintendo's 3DS mini-conference? Anything worth mentioning?

[Andy Bates]

Resistive screens just feel sticky. You have to press down to register touches and any gestures that would feel natural on a capacitive screen, standard swipes, etc, involve a lot more friction because you have to keep pressure with your finger. You could see how awkward that was during the Rayman demo at Ubisoft's presser whenever they cut to a shot of the guy working the screen.

Having used the Wii U touchscreen, I disagree with this assessment. Perhaps it's an issue with smaller screens (for example, Nintendo DS vs. iPhone), but on the Wii U touchscreen, I never once felt like it didn't register any of my inputs. And that's including things like quick swipes, where a resistive screen supposedly has more trouble.


The Wii U screen isn't multitouch, either, so you can forget about pinches and other multi-digit inputs.

I get that the iPhone has multitouch, and that it's great for detailed interaction with a device that only has a touchscreen, but I don't see a lack of multitouch as a problem with the Wii U since it also has dedicated controls besides the touchscreen. For example, instead of pinching to zoom on the screen, you can just move up or down on the joystick. And you need multitouch on an iPhone if you want to, say, move a virtual joystick with one hand and tap to fire with the other hand. But with the Wii U, you can use the actual joystick instead.

In any case, I don't see a lack of multitouch as an issue because A) developers will know about that limitation and modify the controls to work around it, and B) most touchscreen behaviors can easily be simulated using the dedicated controls (because, let's face it, a lot of touchscreen controls are emulating discrete controls in the first place).


Resistive screens are better for drawing with a stylus, but people who want a tool for art should probably buy a Wacom instead of a gaming console. For literally everyone else capacitive is unquestionably superior.

Are you kidding me?? What a ridiculous objection! A resistive screen is no good for drawing, because a Wacom would be better? Really, that's your argument? There are levels of difference here; it's not just "scratch out a poor drawing with your finger" versus "use a Wacom stylus with 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity." A Wacom-type drawing pad would be overkill for a gaming console, and a capacitive screen, as you noted, is not as good for drawing. But right there in the middle, there are all the applications where it is nice to be able to use a stylus for drawing, without having to pony up $1000 for a professional-grade display.

Wacom. Sheesh.


Both the WiiU and 3DS hardware design are a troubling amalgamation of clashing, and even self defeating concepts. If you're making a WiiU game you have 4 different control setups you could be targeting, not counting the balance board.

So Nintendo made a console where developers can choose two screens with touchscreen controls (like the DS), a single screen with touchscreen controls (like the iPhone, iPad, or Vita), asymmetric multiplayer (like the GBA-Gamecube connection), motion controls (like the Wii or PS3), or standard controls (like the 360 or PS3). How are these "self-defeating concepts"? What exactly is the problem with providing options for developers and players?

[Brad Grenz]

Are you kidding me?? What a ridiculous objection! A resistive screen is no good for drawing, because a Wacom would be better? Really, that's your argument? There are levels of difference here; it's not just "scratch out a poor drawing with your finger" versus "use a Wacom stylus with 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity." A Wacom-type drawing pad would be overkill for a gaming console, and a capacitive screen, as you noted, is not as good for drawing. But right there in the middle, there are all the applications where it is nice to be able to use a stylus for drawing, without having to pony up $1000 for a professional-grade display.

Wacom. Sheesh.

Look, people always defend the resistive tech with the "better for drawing" line. But that's an incredibly niche concern for a gaming device. Why use the inferior technology for the majority of uses to preserve that niche concern instead of the accepted and preferred technology? If all someone cares about is having something to draw with, they can buy a wacom and plug it into their PC. Or they can buy a capacitive stylus to use on a capacitive WiiU pad screen. They shouldn't need to impose that desire on the entire gaming audience.


So Nintendo made a console where developers can choose two screens with touchscreen controls (like the DS), a single screen with touchscreen controls (like the iPhone, iPad, or Vita), asymmetric multiplayer (like the GBA-Gamecube connection), motion controls (like the Wii or PS3), or standard controls (like the 360 or PS3). How are these "self-defeating concepts"? What exactly is the problem with providing options for developers and players?

Did you just read what you wrote? There are four different controls to target. God knows whether the person who bought your game has a wii-mote or a pro controller or a nunchuck. Can you even play Pikmin 3 with the tablet? I've heard they were being pretty evasive on that point. And they've got this dual screen idea, so you can have different information on the pad than the TV, but they've also got the "stream to the game pad" idea which makes those dual screen ideas impossible in that scenario. Sounds like a "game by game" feature and not the universal benefit they had originally implied. They also act like they want to cater to the hardcore with third party ports, but the hardware is barely a match for the current gen, and as soon as the PS4 and 720 launch that stuff will evaporate. The incredibly tepid showing from third parties other than Ubi suggests even the token ports will be hard to come by.

It's not a problem of providing options to developers. It's the problem of lacking a clear vision of what actual benefits the tablet can provide beyond making you look at your hands all the time. And it's the problem of creating a user-base stratified by available accessories due to a lack of focus. It would be like trying to make a 360 game not sure if the player was going to be holding a 360 controller, a PS Move type wand, a Smartglass tablet or would be standing in front of their Kinect as it boots up. If they have the wrong one, do they even own the other one they need? That sounds like a nightmare to me. So you'll slap a map on the game pad screen, or an inventory on there because you know they'll have one and it's obvious, and end up with a marginal benefit, at best.

The most interesting stuff they've shown is the asymmetric stuff, but we're down to some pretty casual, multiplayer only scenarios there. I'm dubious of Nintendo's chance to recapture that market this time around. They can't lean on being a party machine because it's no where near as immediately appealing as motion controls were. They can't lean on the hardcore because they'll largely be playing the same 3rd party games on comparable hardware they already own, or next gen hardware the WiiU can't match.

Nintendo's blue ocean hardware strategy saved the company, but they've also painted themselves into a corner. They aren't competing on hardware anymore, effectively locking themselves out of the 120 million+ strong HD market, but there are only so many revolutionary interfaces to hang your hat on. With the Wii and DS they led the way. With the WiiU they're playing catch-up, badly. If they didn't have a better idea I suppose they had no choice but to proceed and hope for the best. With so much of their Wii market migrating to iOS and Facebook games, or graduating to Kinect or an HD console in general, who can they rely on other than hardcore Nintendophiles?