Ahem - Bush Speaks

[Bub, Andrew]

I'm not trying to start a partisan discussion, I'd be linking this if a Dem had said it, but he does it with alarming frequency. This is from Slate's Bushisms column:

"There's no doubt in my mind that we should allow the world worst leaders to hold America hostage, to threaten our peace, to threaten our friends and allies with the world's worst weapons."—President GW Bush South Bend, Ind., Sept. 5, 2002

[SpoofyChop]

President Bush certainly has an tendency to misspeak. Slate.com has collected these for years now.

I suppose that it would be better if he was a bit more articulate, but I think he's gotten a bit better than he was at the beginning.

-Keith

[Bub, Andrew]

Sure, there's even a book, and I've been following it since then. This is probably the most disturbing one that I've ever seen - hence the post. I mean the most disturbing one that didn't inadvertantly insult an entire people, make up a completely new word, or encourage terrorist states. Oh wait...

[Tom Chick]

Just to chime in with my usual debunker's hat: keep in mind that a lot of these are urban legends.

I don't know about Slate's list or the book Bub is talking about, but I see a lot of these lists floating around that variously assign the same boners to Qualye, Bush, and even Marion Barry. Some of them are accurate, but many of them are actually jokes passed around until they're taken as fact. It's like those stupid lists of QUOTES FROM ACTUAL COLLEGE PAPERS written by ACTUAL COLLEGE KIDS who write REALLY DUMB THINGS.

Bush does misspeak quite a bit. He also has a penchant for dopey country-isms. Yesterday he was responding to the Democrats slapping down one of his judicial nominee in Texas. "I don't appreciate it one bit," he said.

Which is really kind of cute in an H. Ross Perot way.

-Tom

[Anonymous]

Money can get you to Yale but it can't buy you an education.

[Bub, Andrew]

You could be right Tom, but I tend to trust Jacob Weisberg's skills at ferreting out this sort of thing. Also, to my knowledge, none of the quotes in his book have been so much as denied by the administration and all the Bushisms he posts are from public speeches. Shouldn't be hard for him to verify. He has a staff of fact checkers afterall.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2070565

[Bub, Andrew]

Bush does misspeak quite a bit. He also has a penchant for dopey country-isms. Yesterday he was responding to the Democrats slapping down one of his judicial nominee in Texas. "I don't appreciate it one bit," he said.


And... more in that vein. George Bush, Poet:
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2070574

[Jason McCullough]

Just to chime in with my usual debunker's hat: keep in mind that a lot of these are urban legends.

I don't know about Slate's list or the book Bub is talking about, but I see a lot of these lists floating around that variously assign the same boners to Qualye, Bush, and even Marion Barry. Some of them are accurate, but many of them are actually jokes passed around until they're taken as fact. It's like those stupid lists of QUOTES FROM ACTUAL COLLEGE PAPERS written by ACTUAL COLLEGE KIDS who write REALLY DUMB THINGS.

Bush does misspeak quite a bit. He also has a penchant for dopey country-isms. Yesterday he was responding to the Democrats slapping down one of his judicial nominee in Texas. "I don't appreciate it one bit," he said.

Which is really kind of cute in an H. Ross Perot way.

-Tom

Disturbingly, the ones about Bush are *completely correct*. He really does talk like that; this isn't a case of someone recirculating Dan Quayle's misstatements attributed to Al Gore (which actually happened in the last election).

ABC News has even taken to editing it out when Bush says "uhm" 8 times in a row.

None of this really effects his qualifications for office, technically, but it's damn funny.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Well, the commonly quoted one about whether there are blacks in Brazil is probably an urban legend, though it's still on the Bushism site.

My favorite probably-not-true one is that the problem with the French, according to Dubya, is that they have no word for entrepreneur.

[William Harms]

Just to chime in with my usual debunker's hat: keep in mind that a lot of these are urban legends.


Bush's verbal missteps happen so often that the White House has started editing the official White House transcripts in order to clean up his misuse of the English language. Naturally, those actions are ticking off historians who want the transcripts to be as accurate as possible, regardless of how Bush said what he thought he was saying by saying something completely different.

[SpoofyChop]

I might be the only one, but I really like President Bush. I think his verbal faux pas are humorous and ultimately completely unrelated to his efficacy at his job.

I suppose some might make the argument that his poor grammar etc has some global ramification or something, but I don't buy that.

To paraphrase Jesse Jackson (the star of "Shakedown" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895261650/qid=1031346902/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-7388832-4261742?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)) reading "Green Eggs and Ham":

I would not buy it in a house
I would not buy it from a mouse
I would not buy George W. causes all sorts of problems by his verbal gaffes
I would not buy it, SpoofyChop I am.

-Keith

[Bub, Andrew]

I might be the only one, but I really like President Bush. I think his verbal faux pas are humorous and ultimately completely unrelated to his efficacy at his job.

Unless you consider statesmanship a job requirement.

[Anonymous]

None of this really effects his qualifications for office, technically, but it's damn funny.

As I understand it, which is not well, being accomplished in rhetoric was once a valuable political asset (you know, those Romans. Or something). Now we like our leaders down to earth to the point of being brain dead. Maybe we just like being able to think we're smarter than those in charge. I read an article once comparing presidential inaugeral speeches - to sum up, they've gone from long and complex to short and stupid. I blame it on video games.

[sellthekids]

i think it was SNL that had a skit during the election fracas where Scrub uttered the word "strategery."

i still LOL at that word on a monthly basis.

of course, we use it at work liberally....

[Kevin Perry]

He also has a penchant for dopey country-isms. Yesterday he was responding to the Democrats slapping down one of his judicial nominee in Texas. "I don't appreciate it one bit," he said.

Which is really kind of cute in an H. Ross Perot way.

-Tom

Not to defend the CINC, but as a native Southerner I don't have any problem with that statement. It's a common phrasing.

[SpoofyChop]

I think the argument that his verbal gaffes would be a problem only pertains to an age long passed where there were citizens who would actually sit still for real speaches.

Today, the media (hey, nobody here works for the media right?!) compresses everything to a sound bite. Doesn't really matter if he makes some verbal gaffes.

The real skill comes in running the government behind the scenes. Hiring people who can serve as statesmen/diplomats, and generally not being completely untrustworthy. I think that Bush does these things well.

Plus, hey! Lincoln gave that whole Gettysburger A-Dress to a bunch of people who couldn't even hear him because he was quiet and they wouldn't stop talking over him. So what good did his l33t eloquence get for him, eh? :wink:

-Keith

[Dirt]

What Andrew said. The ability to express your ideas and dictates accurately (if not articulately) should be one of leading job requirements as President of the USA. Especially for a one that is said to delegate so much.

I'd love to see his unedited or self-edited writing.

[DennyA]

Well, come on. If people had a problem with Shrubya's diction, why would the majority of Americans have voted for him?

What's that? Oh, never mind. :-)

At least with him you know there are no subliminable underlying messages in what he's saying.

[Matthew Gallant]

He knows how to say the word "asshole", at least.

[Desslock]

Cripes, if you guys are complaining about that, you should be burdened with the Canadian Prime Minister. Newspapers routinely "clean up" his statements to make some sense. They've started turning on him a bit, however, and the meanest thing they can do to him is just to reprint his actual words, without editing.

Here's today's sample:

The prime minister wants UN inspectors to return to Iraq to find evidence of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. When asked exactly what kind of proof he needs, he put it this way:

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven."

Yikes.

[Toddy]

I was just about to write that, Stefan. And that quote from Chretien is hilarious. Saw it on the news last night and just about fell off the couch laughing. In person, Chretien's a clown. Odd thing is, for a guy who seems like a buffoon so often, he's Machiavelli behind closed doors, and apparently a very intelligent man.

The best Bushism of all time has to be calling the September 11 terrorists "folks." I heard him say that at least three different times on the day of the attacks and immediately after.

[Qenan]

Wow. I'm not much of a Bush fan, but that beats Bushisms hands down.

[Matthew Gallant]

Isn't English Chretien's second language though?

[Jason McCullough]

Well, the commonly quoted one about whether there are blacks in Brazil is probably an urban legend, though it's still on the Bushism site.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/brazil.htm

[Jason McCullough]

I think English is Bush's second language.

[Anonymous]

That writers of that Snopes page must have broken their backs bending over backwards to find an explanation for the Bush Brazil quote.

"...Bush is not known for being a particularly good extemporaneous speaker, and the situation was likely complicated by the fact that most of his audience was probably not native English-speaking). He might have meant, for example: 'Do you have [problems with racism involving] blacks [in Brazil], too?'"

He *might* have meant? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

The Snopes attempt to discredit the piece boils down to a claim that foreign news media are by definition less credible than our own. They seem to be going to a lot of work to shed doubt on this one.

[Dirt]

The thing with W. Bush is that he really is the average US citizen. Most people in this country really have no clue as to the world outside their own nor do they care to learn more. The thing with W. Bush from the many comments I've heard about him is that he really isn't stupid, it's just that he doesn't possess much curiosity, he doesn't care to learn about things, he doesn't care to know more - he's average. Which is kinda scary considering his occupation.

[Jason McCullough]

'The Snopes attempt to discredit the piece boils down to a claim that foreign news media are by definition less credible than our own. They seem to be going to a lot of work to shed doubt on this one.'

No, they point out the primary source for the statement is someone who a) wasn't present when it was said and b) waited 9 months to talk about it. That's the source of debatability.

[William Harms]

The thing with W. Bush is that he really is the average US citizen. Most people in this country really have no clue as to the world outside their own nor do they care to learn more. The thing with W. Bush from the many comments I've heard about him is that he really isn't stupid, it's just that he doesn't possess much curiosity, he doesn't care to learn about things, he doesn't care to know more - he's average. Which is kinda scary considering his occupation.

I suppose that's what happens when you're given every benefit in life. He couldn't even be bothered to get decent grades while he was in college.

[chet]

The thing with W. Bush is that he really is the average US citizen.

Really? You have had Daddy's Rich Millionaire friends bail you out of every bad decscion you have ever made, only to call it great business moves. He sold a company worth $250,000 for $8 million, what a great businessman! *cough* yeah.

Poor colin Powell, out of all the smart people Bush was going to surround himself with, he is the only smart one and the only one not being listened to.

How sad is it that our Attorney General was so loved, in his home state, when he ran for senate, he ran against a dead guy and lost. He was also offended by boobs on statues in a federal building and had them covered with cloth.

Great break down of Bush by Jimmy Carter (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38441-2002Sep4.html)

Chet

[Met_K]

I think this is the first time I agree with Chet.

And to paraphrase one of my favorite parody sites,

"This just in, the stock market has rapidly fallen from it's early-day decline and crashed in minutes. Word is Bush opened his mouth and attempted to speak."

[wumpus]

Met K agrees with you? Worst. Insult. Ever.

[Anonymous]

Great break down of Bush by Jimmy Carter (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38441-2002Sep4.html)

Save the Arab-Israeli peace talks, Jimmy had a rather weak foreign policy administration. It's only a "great break down" if you subscribe to one form of apathy over another. :roll:

Raphael

[Jack]

I always get a laugh when Rush Limbaugh makes Bush out to be a "genius in disguise," effectively fooling everyone with his stumbling phrases -- like he's President Columbo.

I don't dislike Bush, but I'm not sure how well he truly grasps complex issues. He strikes me as a man who inherited success and has the wherewithall to hire people who actually know what they're doing -- so they can tell HIM what to do.

[Anonymous]

"Apathy?" Carter must be real apathetic to spend his retirement building houses, trying to solve world conflicts, and monitoring elections in troubled democracies.

Carter got endlessly roasted because he had the balls to pull the US out of the Olympics because the US shouldn't patronize an Olympics held in a nation which had just unlawfully invaded Afghanistan.

Whether or not you agree with that decision, I don't call that weak. Carter stood up and took the heat.

[Jason McCullough]

He also intentionally baited the USSR into invading the quagmire of Afghanistan. Quite a set.

http://www.nonviolence.org/commentary/104.php

That link talks about it like it was a bad thing, wierdly.

[Anonymous]

"Apathy?" Carter must be real apathetic to spend his retirement building houses, trying to solve world conflicts, and monitoring elections in troubled democracies.

Carter got endlessly roasted because he had the balls to pull the US out of the Olympics because the US shouldn't patronize an Olympics held in a nation which had just unlawfully invaded Afghanistan.

Whether or not you agree with that decision, I don't call that weak. Carter stood up and took the heat.

No, that's utopic. As a human being, Carter's got plenty of heart. I respect him for that. But as a President, his administration was apathetic on a number of domestic and foreign policy issues. FWIW, someone conducted a poll a few years back where Jimmy was rated one of the three worst presidents of the 20th century. I'm not the only person to consider his Presidency, subpar.

Raphael

[Brian Rucker]

"A society gets the politicians it deserves." I forget who said that but I think we're living with it right now.

[Bub, Andrew]

Riffing on Chet's remarks, my favorite quote about Bush is this (from that always amusing former Texas Governor he defeated, who's name I can't remember right now):

"George W. Bush was born on Third Base and thinks he hit a Triple."

[DavidCPA]

Riffing on Chet's remarks, my favorite quote about Bush is this (from that always amusing former Texas Governor he defeated, who's name I can't remember right now):

"George W. Bush was born on Third Base and thinks he hit a Triple."

Ann Richards.

[Bub, Andrew]

... and ain't she a pistol?

[Anonymous]

"I'm not the only person to consider his Presidency, subpar."

There are a lot of idiots in the world. Being with the majority ain't necessarily always a badge of honor.

[Toddy]

Isn't English Chretien's second language though?

Yes, but he's just as bad in French. Chretien mangles both of Canada's official languages equally.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of idiots in the world. Being with the majority ain't necessarily always a badge of honor.

Ah... you may be onto something. The majority who voted for him in '76 could very well fall under your category of "idiots," right? :wink:

FWIW, a rebuttal based on quantitative methodology and historical analysis rather than hasty generalizations would improve the quality of this debate.

Raphael

[Anonymous]

It's a fucking video game board. Get over yourself.

Historical analysis, my ass.