Smashed kneecap: b0rked 4 lyfe?

[RepoMan]

So this could really go in my other I'm A F***ing Idiot (http://quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=63226) thread, but it's more the consequences than the mishap itself that I want to focus on today.

I have a nice bike trailer, a Chariot, that has served us well as our kids have grown. A couple of months ago I was taking them (aged 6 and 3 at the time) for a lovely afternoon ride, zooming down hills, all was good. We got back home and I decided to do a quick victory lap around the little island in the middle of our cul-de-sac.

All too quick a victory lap! Bike trailers are not made for cornering. The trailer flipped and yanked my bike over. I smacked my right knee hard into the pavement, comprehensively skinning it. And my kids were screaming and crying, which of course took epic precedence over any injuries of mine. (My 3yo son got a bump on his forehead, but that didn't stop him from careening around the porch on his push-bike later that very day....)

Anyway, my knee healed up, except that 1) it feels a little different to the touch -- bumpy in some spots that the other kneecap isn't, and numb in some spots that the other kneecap isn't -- and 2) I can't kneel on it any more. It just plain hurts like crazy if I try to kneel on that kneecap.

I got it X-rayed two weeks after the incident, and there was no fracture. So whatever it is, it can't be too serious. But it seems like there is some lingering after-effect here. I can certainly live with it, but I'm curious whether I'll have to.

My question for you all:
- Have any of you ever whacked your knee into concrete?
- Was your kneecap ever the same again?

Thanks.

[Robert Sharp]

Ummm...no fracture, but you are still in great pain if you try to kneel on it? And this has lasted a couple of months? I would advise another X-Ray. When I was a teenager, I hurt my arm playing backyard football. It hurt so bad I knew it had to be broken, but the X-Ray at the hospital said no. Two days later, my dad took me to another hospital, which took a BETTER X-ray and said "Yeah, you have a hairline fracture and will need a splint for 6 weeks.

Now, I suppose it's possible that some other scar tissue has built up here, kind of like getting a knot on your head that doesn't heal right for some reason. IANAD. But if it still hurts that long after the incident, you should see your doctor.

[mkozlows]

Go to the doctor, dude. Even if it's not broken, there could be some ligament damage or whatever. And the awesome thing about knees from a medical perspective is that the existence of the NFL has ensured that they're one of the most heavily researched joints in the body; those dudes get knee surgeries like normal people get dental cleanings.

That said, no, it will never be the same. Every injury you have will pile onto you in a cavalcade of little aches and twinges and restrictions. And now you are an old man. THANKS, ENTROPY.

[Houngan]

Did you see an orthopedist or a regular doctor? Sounds like you have fluid buildup somewhere and might need the ol' drill.

H.

[Case]

What everyone else said about seeing a specialist. My daughter experienced something similar in a snowboarding mishap. It took them awhile to figure out it was a torn meniscus.

She had arthroscopic surgery, and ended up with a (nearly) as good as new knee.

[corsair]

You need to see a doctor again - sounds like time for an MRI?

[triggercut]

You've got scar tissue on the surface of the knee if I'm reading you correctly.

Basically, if you do some deep-tissue damage through all layers of skin/fat/muscle layers to bone, you should have it looked at within 8-12 hours for deep cleaning and suturing. Once that window of time is closed, the wound will heal on its own...but it will also form scar tissue that presses up against nerve endings and causes pain.

Similar thing happened to me a few years ago--sliced my right index-finger fingertip open on broken glass at work, but once we got the bloodflow stanched my responsibilities as a manager precluded me from seeking medical attention until too late. The wound healed up just fine (got a small scar there), but for almost a year when I would press a button or something with that fingertip it would tingle and sting a little as a result.

It *should* eventually dissipate, but keep checking. Calcification of that scar tissue can happen, and in those cases those bone spurs need to be removed.

[stusser]

Don't go to a doctor, that's too obvious. You should try smoking pot.

[Major Malphunktion]

I'm for smoking pot...then amputation. Only way to be sure.

Go get it looked at. knee problems suck to live with.

[Blips]

Self surgery is fun. I recommend it.

[triggercut]

As I read it, RepoMan is not describing any symptoms that suggest problems *bending* his knees. The problem with kneeling is his natural weight pushing the injured area into the ground, causing pain along the surface of the injury area.

It's scar tissue that may have become calcified. If those "bumps" are rock hard, get to a doc, have it X-rayed, and if that's what they are, have them cleaned out.

[SlyFrog]

Don't go to a doctor, that's too obvious. You should try smoking pot.

He did go to a doctor. (Unless he did a self x-ray.) There's nothing wrong with asking a, "I went to a doctor but it still hurts, am I just being a pussy," question.

It's different than a, "Hey, what's this weird thing growing on me that hurts and I've never had checked by a doctor," question. :)

[merryprankster]

One of the girls I work with fell on the ice this last winter and had a very nasty knee injury that sounds similar to yours. It took a few months but she is fine now. The sad truth is that we are all getting older and just don't heal that fast (my busted uo back is a nice example of this).

[ddtibbs]

This sounds exactly like what happened to me (the injury, not the circumstances.) There is no change in the function of the knee, but it usually has a dull ache across the face of the kneecap and if I kneel on it the wrong way...WOW does it hurt. Nice to know what it could be if I ever get around to getting it checked out.

[JoshV]

It's Lupus.

[Austin Arlitt]

My question for you all:
- Have any of you ever whacked your knee into concrete?
- Was your kneecap ever the same again?
Yes, & no.

In fact, my right kneecap is a bit too far inset in the joint these days. Back in May right after I spent a day moving all my things, I was unable to walk on it for a couple weeks without a severe & painful limp. About a month ago I saw an orthopedic surgeon who found nothing wrong apart from the inset patella & didn't recommend surgery unless the problems persisted.

I'm still not biking around in high gears unless I'm going downhill. On the other hand, at least I can walk normally again.

EDIT: I should clarify that the knee injury developed several years ago & was merely agitated back in May, the first time it's been painful.

[Sarkus]

Ummm...no fracture, but you are still in great pain if you try to kneel on it? And this has lasted a couple of months? I would advise another X-Ray. When I was a teenager, I hurt my arm playing backyard football. It hurt so bad I knew it had to be broken, but the X-Ray at the hospital said no. Two days later, my dad took me to another hospital, which took a BETTER X-ray and said "Yeah, you have a hairline fracture and will need a splint for 6 weeks.

It's not that the second hospital had a better x-ray machine, its that x-rays don't see hairline fractures early on in most cases. I had one in my left leg a few years ago and the first visit (4-5 days after the pain started) to a very highly regarded orthapedic clinic ended up with an incorrect "arthritis flare-up" and cortisone shot diagnosis. When I went back a week later because it still hurt, they ordered an MRI that immediately noted the fracture. It was explained to me that fractures are not always visible via x-ray when the first happen.

As to the OP, I'd go to a doctor just to have them double-check what is going on in the knee. It might be the scar tissue issue, though, as I've had that happen before as well.

[Strato]

I have to wonder if there is some soft tissue damage persisting around your knee. Definitely get it checked out more thoroughly.

Worst thing I've done to my kneecap is dislocate it. Hurt like crazy, couldn't walk properly on it for around a month (may have been partly psychological) and after six months was still unable to sprint comfortably. I have to be careful with it now, it has only popped out one other time (subluxation) but a bit of physiotherapy and I've been good to go.

[Blips]

My question for you all:
- Have any of you ever whacked your knee into concrete?
- Was your kneecap ever the same again?


Yes, and on many other things judging from the number of scars I have on my knees. And yes, they're just the same as they've always been.

[Mandrel]

Possibly a bone bruise? I know they can hang around for a long time.

[MatthewF]

I banged my knee on the concrete pretty hard while skateboarding. Wore a brace for 4 months, still rode the board but couldn't do any drastic tricks. It seems fine now. Seriously though, get nice cloth brace and it'll help immensely.

[Robert Sharp]

It's not that the second hospital had a better x-ray machine, its that x-rays don't see hairline fractures early on in most cases. I had one in my left leg a few years ago and the first visit (4-5 days after the pain started) to a very highly regarded orthapedic clinic ended up with an incorrect "arthritis flare-up" and cortisone shot diagnosis. When I went back a week later because it still hurt, they ordered an MRI that immediately noted the fracture. It was explained to me that fractures are not always visible via x-ray when the first happen.


Fair enough, but I didn't say it was a better machine. I said it was a better x-ray. The first x-ray tech had twisted my arm in such a way that one bone was covering the break. The second x-ray person saw the first one and said "Uh, this was a bad x-ray" and took it properly. I didn't tell the whole story because I didn't think it was relevant, but now you've forced me!

[RepoMan]

Thanks all. To emphasize a couple of points: the kneecap is 100% fine except when specifically kneeling on it. I'm able to jog, do my 100lb dumbbell squats (not that big yet, but I'm working on it -- started actually adding protein to my diet lately, go me), do side leg lifts, deep knee bends, bounce around with kids, etc.

So I really am not at all aware of anything wrong on a day-to-day basis. Therefore this is not something I am feeling highly urgent about, and I don't think anything drastic like an MRI is indicated.

The "bone bruise" or "calcified scar tissue bone spur" theories both sound plausible. They both may get better on their own, veeeeeeeery slooooooowly, from what folks have said above. Or maybe not, but in any case I don't see it getting significantly worse over time if not treated right away. I may have it checked out next year or so, but I'd like to spread out the medical expenses (money-wise and time-wise) on this a bit :-)

GO ENTROPY! Actually this is the biggest reason I'm working out a lot these days -- working out is the difference between being old in a middle-aged body vs. young in an old body. Plus my wife finally got on the workout bandwagon in a really big way and is looking amazing as a result, so I have to keep up or waste the opportunity of a lifetime! (that being, having a long and physically active life with one's life partner :-D )

[seventimessix]

http://oi52.tinypic.com/34ss4g4.jpg

When your knee looks like that you can post about how much your knee hurts. Until then stop being such a wuss.

[chet]

seventimessix - was thinking the same thing but with this clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nle8-1K-wTw

[Staff Sergeant]

I busted my knee playing rugby 6 years ago and it still twinges sometimes. The title of this thread made me expect something way worse then crashing a bike and skinning your knee.

[Houngan]

I busted my knee playing rugby 6 years ago and it still twinges sometimes. The title of this thread made me expect something way worse then crashing a bike and skinning your knee.

Well yes, the Rugby equivalent would be "finding the missing parts."

H.

[Sander 001]

My question for you all:
- Have any of you ever whacked your knee into concrete?
- Was your kneecap ever the same again?Yes, when I was a kid playing basketball in gym class. It resulted in me having a permanent bump where the patellar tendon meets the tibia. I'm only able to kneel down it for a very short time. When playing sports, it hurts until it's warmed up.
Otherwise it's fine.

[RepoMan]

So, 42, what the fuck did you do to your knee and how chronically fucked up is it?

Sander 001, yep, sounds very plausible. I can live with it.

[seventimessix]

The smiley face across the width of my knee is from when I was 16. I was playing on a playground with my sisters, ran up a ramp, slipped on one of the plastic strips on the ramp, landed knee first on said strip, and tore it open to the bone. Fortunately that gave me no lasting effects other than the 4 inch scar. The rest is the result of surgery to repair my shattered femur from a car accident when I was 19. I have slightly limited range of motion (I can bend to about 105 degrees, and anything over 90 is really good with this type of injury, but still less than normal) and get moderate or worse pain after prolonged use and especially when the weather changes. With all the scar tissue, plate, and bolts that thing swells like a bitch.