Fallen Enchantress

[kerzain]

Calm down. For all we know it will simply be treated like a resource and allow you to make certain types of units with a minimal click investment.

[Foxstab]

You killed wolves. You've obtained their pelts. I faill to see the problem here?
In MOM you sometime got a shitty sword item for a fail hero or a tiny bit of gold for defeating bears in a dark cave. Mostly, for small monster encounters, you've got jack shit. For killing enemy armies? You've got absolutely nada. So here, you got SOMETHING now.
So what's the big idea? Pelts aren't useful enough for ya? The idea of trading pelts for money instead of just getting money outright sends you flying bananos? Oh, bugger off!


Hey, Brad

http://troll.me/images/shut-up-and-take-my-money/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg

[James Johnson]

I think it's possible to make a good strategy/tactical/RPG game in theory, but Elemental and "3 Wolf Pelt" demonstrates why Civ never even did tactical battles. The best you can hope for is still probably less accessible than Civ, and it's very easy to end up with whatever fun core gameplay you might have had buried in lots o' tedious crap. Add RPG tropes like quests and item drops and leveling up by fighting things and you have a recipe for fail, or, if the designer is sharp and does a good job, a mediocre product for an extremely niche audience.

There is no "possible in theory." It already happened and was called Master of Magic. Fucking idiot.

[Razgon]

You are such a nice and easy-going person.

[Sarkus]

So what is supposed to be the timeline for this if we're still not even to beta? I ask because the plan seems to change every few months. I remember when Elemental came out and Brad announced his big plan, and IIRC we were supposed to be on expansion two by the spring as a major overhaul. And as much as I want this to turn out, its now been over a year since a lot of us paid for the first game.

[Chris Nahr]

I'll worry about that in six months. There are already enough games coming out right now, and after Elemental I'd prefer they take the time to get it right this time.

[KevinC]

Because that's better? Do you want to have to click on "3 Wolf Pelt" to make leather armor for three of your guys? Or even 30 of your guys? Even if it's only one click? Do you even want to know you got "3 Wolf Pelt" in a battle report? Do you really? In a strategy game? But this is also an RPG with quests and stuff, so maybe they are for a quest! Kill me now. Or maybe they took quests out (let's hope).

No. If rose is the tint you prefer for your spectacles, you are hoping "3 Wolf Pelt" discreetly disappears sometime before release and is never heard from again.

I think it's possible to make a good strategy/tactical/RPG game in theory, but Elemental and "3 Wolf Pelt" demonstrates why Civ never even did tactical battles. The best you can hope for is still probably less accessible than Civ, and it's very easy to end up with whatever fun core gameplay you might have had buried in lots o' tedious crap. Add RPG tropes like quests and item drops and leveling up by fighting things and you have a recipe for fail, or, if the designer is sharp and does a good job, a mediocre product for an extremely niche audience.

I'm sorry but I literally laughed out loud while reading this. I mean really, a battle report shows resources obtained from fighting monsters and it's time to start hyperventilating?

You also realize that the "recipe for fail" was included in such notorious trainwrecks like Master of Magic, Age of Wonders, etc? The games this is a spiritual successor of?

Elemental includes both regular units and individual champions which can be equipped with various pieces of equipment. *IF* fighting monsters provides access to equipment directly or resources to construct it, I'm really failing to see what the cause for panic or even surprise is.

[KevinC]

So what is supposed to be the timeline for this if we're still not even to beta? I ask because the plan seems to change every few months. I remember when Elemental came out and Brad announced his big plan, and IIRC we were supposed to be on expansion two by the spring as a major overhaul. And as much as I want this to turn out, its now been over a year since a lot of us paid for the first game.

Supposedly they invested some of the cash from the Impulse sale to change it from "stand alone expansion" to sequel which entailed an increase of scope.

[farfrael]

Supposedly they invested some of the cash from the Impulse sale to change it from "stand alone expansion" to sequel which entailed an increase of scope.

Still puzzled about their decision to sell impulse. I remember reading an article (cannot find the source now sadly), or possibly an interview with Brad W mentioning impulse was their most profitable division ... and also some comments about how their "serious software" division was struggling.

It feels as if they decided to bet everything on their games business and the "elemental" IP in particular which feels like a huge gamble to me.

[DarthMasta]

From what I've read it's simply because Brad wants to develop software, not just sell other people's software. And for Impulse to grow, that's what would be required, for Stardock to pretty much dedicate itself to the selling part.

And not sure if arakyd is serious.

[Alstein]

So what is supposed to be the timeline for this if we're still not even to beta? I ask because the plan seems to change every few months. I remember when Elemental came out and Brad announced his big plan, and IIRC we were supposed to be on expansion two by the spring as a major overhaul. And as much as I want this to turn out, its now been over a year since a lot of us paid for the first game.

Their latest update post said beta around Thanksgiving. The reason for the delay was due to an increase in scope- and that's been pretty damn clear since the start.

After the problems Stardock had across the board in 2010, I got no problem with them making sure they get a game up to their standard that they were known for before WOM.

I'm upset over Impulse personally, but I understand why Brad made his decision, and if it's a choice between Impulse or getting great other things, I'll take the great other things- it's fairly easy to replace Impulse.

[DeepT]

So Fallen Enchantress will just appear on my impulse account because I own War of Magic (I pre-ordered it)? Or is it on a separate stardock service now?

[Razgon]

Brad wrote something about this somewhere, but I can't for the life of me find where it was.

Didn't every game have to be installed through impulse when it was bought? Meaning, Stardock have the mail adress of everyone who bought the game?

I honestly don't know what happens to those that bought the retail game, but I seem to remember Brad saying something about it.

[KevinC]

So Fallen Enchantress will just appear on my impulse account because I own War of Magic (I pre-ordered it)? Or is it on a separate stardock service now?

Last I heard it'd just show up on impulse,but things may have changed. I'm sure we'll hear more when the beta starts getting ready to go.

[Aeon221]

You people are missing the way more important thing. Yes, wolf pelt drops are retarded, but the army list is just a giant blob of units messily put together in no particular order and with no particular information given.

I dunno about you saps, but I actually played Elemental a good chunk and the utter lack of army management was a giant pain in the ass.

So was the enormous quantity of shitty drops I had to sell (so much fucking ham, so many pelts, so very fucking uninteresting), but honestly I hated army management more. Sorting through generic pictures to find the one useful unit, not my idea of fun.

We also haven't seen a new empire tree. The last picture of it that got posted was the same atrocious mess from Elemental.

You will have to sell loot, manage cities and manage armies often in a game like this. Shit clickspam sell drops for the first and atrocious uis for the second aren't a good thing.

[Alstein]

Last I heard it'd just show up on impulse,but things may have changed. I'm sure we'll hear more when the beta starts getting ready to go.

It will be a separate service that will be announced soon, though the full game will be on Impulse.

I really don't think Brad is too happy with what happened to Impulse.

[kerzain]

Where did Brad say he wasn't happy? Last I heard he was 'meh'. Not that I don't believe you, I'm just nosy.

[Talorc]

It will be a separate service that will be announced soon, though the full game will be on Impulse.

I really don't think Brad is too happy with what happened to Impulse.

Stardock should put Fallen Enchantress on Steam. I bet Steam would accept it too, just to put the finger up at Game Stop.

There is nothing wrong with having your own in house digital distribution platform and also going with Steam - Paradox does it with their games and they are probably a publisher very similar in target audience to Stardock.

Of course it should also go on Direct to Drive, Amazon download, Green man Gaming etc etc

Hell, even Jeff Vogel got with the program and publishes Spiderweb Software games on Steam now.

[Alstein]

Where did Brad say he wasn't happy? Last I heard he was 'meh'. Not that I don't believe you, I'm just nosy.

My speculation. I think what was promised by Gamestop and what happened were very different. I do think that FE being on Stardock's own service and not on Impulse is a sign, though it could just be a case of SD wanting to be able to put stuff out whenever they want.


As for Stardock on Steam, I think it will happen eventually.

[kerzain]

My speculation. I think what was promised by Gamestop and what happened were very different. I do think that FE being on Stardock's own service and not on Impulse is a sign, though it could just be a case of SD wanting to be able to put stuff out whenever they want.I figured that was just Brad's Walter White persona shining through.

[Talorc]

Brad was pretty clear at the time of the sale that the deal allowed them to create their own DD platform, strictly for their own titles. Although I think it was more envisaged as a support mechanism for the windows blinds/object desktop etc business.

[KevinC]

Aeon, I'll worry about interface issues once initial beta starts. It's been mentioned several times that a lot of UI stuff is going away and is WIP. It's hard for me to judge UI until I get hands-on experience with it though so I'm reserving my venom for that time, if required. :)

[Mike O'Malley]

Brad's the one who knocks.

[Nephrinn]

Looks like public beta has been delayed to iron out some issues. (http://forums.elementalgame.com/413876)

Happy to see they're taking their time with this one.

[jpinard]

Looks like public beta has been delayed to iron out some issues. (http://forums.elementalgame.com/413876)

Happy to see they're taking their time with this one.

Very glad to see that too. May hurt the bottom line, but is so much better for the gamer.

BTW Kael - I love crazy randomness too. But I also love perfectly (even boring) balance too. Depends on my mood. Am I in for nutty story immersion, or to test my wits on a level playing field to see how good the AI is?

In a perfect world it would be fun to have a slider to go from
"Insane Randominity >>>> Boring Balance"

[kerzain]

Delaying this just gives me more time to play Skyrim.

[Farnsworth]

Delaying this just gives me more time to play Skyrim.

Good point. And League of Legends also still doesn't play itself. But I have to admit that this made me look a bit on recent dev-posts. First time since the release of the original Elemental that I feel like this might be pretty good after all. We'll see.

[Alstein]

Last Night Brad put a dev blog out that had some info on beta release.

1/19 for the folks who were in on WOM early, 1/26 for those who weren't.

Hopefully FE is as good as we thought as we thought WOM was going to be.

[kerzain]

He must have posted that while waiting in queue for SW:TOR.

[KevinC]

Oh for fuck's sake, I find myself excited again. Don't let me down, Kael & Co!

Here is the Dev Blog (http://forums.elementalgame.com/414567) mentioned. Lots of good info.

[kerzain]

I missed the part (till now) where they hired a published author to oversee the writing in the game. That's actually the thing I'm most excited about at the moment. Game mechanics can make or break a game and all, but in epic fantasy games, I love me to quality writing/lore/item descriptions etc.

[Morberis]

The dream: Steam.

The reality is I'm betting their new version of stardock central.

[Telefrog]

Hey! Rivers are back!

[ydejin]

This sounds like a really interesting game mechanic:


Champions almost never die, even when they fall in battle. If they are defeated, they are brought back to the nearest city where they recover and typically have a permanent effect placed on them (limp, lost eye, fear, etc.) that will haunt them for the rest of the game. It is not uncommon – and in fact typical – for a late game champion to have several scars and old wounds from battle.

[kerzain]

Yea, that sounds cool. It will help keep the losing player at a disadvantage.

[ydejin]

Yea, that sounds cool. It will help keep the losing player at a disadvantage.

Seems like a nice balance between killing off the Champion vs. just teleporting the to a friendly city on defeat and having defeat be largely inconsequential.

[maxle]

Sounds like another reason to reload if you lose a battle, frankly. But sure, if you've the right personality for it, no doubt it's an interesting mechanic.

[ydejin]

Sounds like another reason to reload if you lose a battle, frankly. But sure, if you've the right personality for it, no doubt it's an interesting mechanic.

I suppose if you play that way. Wouldn't you be even more likely to reload if the Champion was permanently killed? Do you reload after ever battle you lose? I can't imagine playing a game that way. I'm rather curious as to how common such a play style is. Can't you do that for any game with a save button?

[Nephrinn]

I don't have access to my email that's tied to Impulse anymore (switched ISP), so I really hope Fallen Enchantress still makes it to Impulse without having to go through email to get it. And I get the impression changing my email on Impulse is nigh on impossible.

[Blips]

As long as the tactical battles remain flat, boring squares my interest in this game cannot exceed 70%.

[SuperAdventurer]

I missed the part (till now) where they hired a published author to oversee the writing in the game. That's actually the thing I'm most excited about at the moment. Game mechanics can make or break a game and all, but in epic fantasy games, I love me to quality writing/lore/item descriptions etc.

Maybe you don't realize but the game writing has been with a published author from beginning. That is Bradley Wardell.
http://www.amazon.com/Elemental-Destinys-Embers-Bradley-Wardell/dp/0345517865/

I would recomend it to read, not as great literature. But still the criticism is been rather unfair. No it is not up there with an epic classic such as Lord of the Rings. But still this is an entertaining book and all I ask from a fantasy. Which is to entertain. And with a bonus it features, the backround lore that is relevant with the game story.

[Raife]

Angie read it for us. (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=60997)

[KevinC]

As long as the tactical battles remain flat, boring squares my interest in this game cannot exceed 70%.

Were you a fan of Fall From Heaven? I ask because I really enjoy that mod (and a lot of other strategy games) and it lacks tactical battles completely.

[Blips]

Were you a fan of Fall From Heaven? I ask because I really enjoy that mod (and a lot of other strategy games) and it lacks tactical battles completely.

I'm sad to say that I've never played Fall From Heaven. I can quite easily enjoy TBS games without tactical battles, like Civ IV for example. The problem is that the moment tactical battles are included, they need to be interesting because I cannot trust auto-resolve and will therefore be playing every single one. Flat squares are not interesting with the approach that FE is taking (where units are not terribly unique). Even MoM, a game from 1993 had walls and destructible elements.

[maxle]

Can't you do that for any game with a save button?
When I played X-Com I saved every turn and reloaded if any of my guys died.

I know, I know.

[Morberis]

Maybe you don't realize but the game writing has been with a published author from beginning. That is Bradley Wardell.
http://www.amazon.com/Elemental-Destinys-Embers-Bradley-Wardell/dp/0345517865/

I would recomend it to read, not as great literature. But still the criticism is been rather unfair. No it is not up there with an epic classic such as Lord of the Rings.

Uuuuuunderstatement of the century. Sorry Angie's review is quite fair. While Brad may be good as a CEO or an AI designer an author he is not.

[Alstein]

I don't have access to my email that's tied to Impulse anymore (switched ISP), so I really hope Fallen Enchantress still makes it to Impulse without having to go through email to get it. And I get the impression changing my email on Impulse is nigh on impossible.

My suggestion is to try one of two things:

a) Wait for Stardock to put up its client, then use your old email/login. This should be before FE, they did say it was going to be client/FE.

b) Contact their support to try and get the email on your account changed on your Stardock account.


The dream: Steam.

The reality is I'm betting their new version of stardock central.

The beta and free copies will be on SDC. (already confirmed). It's confirmed that you shouldn't need to download a client though, as the new SDC has an optional website interface.

I expect a Steam version to pop up when the game is "launched".

[JM]

Maybe you don't realize but the game writing has been with a published author from beginning. That is Bradley Wardell.
http://www.amazon.com/Elemental-Destinys-Embers-Bradley-Wardell/dp/0345517865/

I would recomend it to read, not as great literature. But still the criticism is been rather unfair. No it is not up there with an epic classic such as Lord of the Rings. But still this is an entertaining book and all I ask from a fantasy. Which is to entertain. And with a bonus it features, the backround lore that is relevant with the game story.

Ahahahahahahahah.

I so hope you were serious with this post.

[kerzain]

Maybe you don't realize but the game writing has been with a published author from beginning. That is Bradley Wardell.
http://www.amazon.com/Elemental-Destinys-Embers-Bradley-Wardell/dp/0345517865/

I would recomend it to read, not as great literature. But still the criticism is been rather unfair. No it is not up there with an epic classic such as Lord of the Rings. But still this is an entertaining book and all I ask from a fantasy. Which is to entertain. And with a bonus it features, the backround lore that is relevant with the game story.
I chose my words carefully.

[SuperAdventurer]

I do not understand such negative opinions of the book. And in specific here in this thread, you play the game and this book is for you at least to give a chance. I think many of you would not even bother to read it. And nobody has been saying that it is such a masterpiece, but just to point out it is fun to read and it is about the game. At least I like to give some backround for the story when I play. Destiny's Embers is good for that and entertaining. Based off that so called review it looks like Brad Wardell can't write anything, he is terrible. But this impression is wrong and his style is actually quite imaginative.

[Therlun]

How will Stardock determine who bought Elemental?
Is the Impulse data available to them? Will I have to log into the new Stardock with my Impulse account or something?

[Telefrog]

I do not understand such negative opinions of the book. And in specific here in this thread, you play the game and this book is for you at least to give a chance. I think many of you would not even bother to read it. And nobody has been saying that it is such a masterpiece, but just to point out it is fun to read and it is about the game. At least I like to give some backround for the story when I play. Destiny's Embers is good for that and entertaining. Based off that so called review it looks like Brad Wardell can't write anything, he is terrible. But this impression is wrong and his style is actually quite imaginative.

I bought the book and read it. It's awful.

[kerzain]

I downloaded the sample chapter for my kindle when the game first came out, before all the stupid review drama on Amazon took place. I gave it a chance.

[SuperAdventurer]

Well that is fair enough. Maybe it is not for everyone.

[kerzain]

Maybe it's not.

Now, lets get back to a game saddled with a whole bunch of baggage best left in another all-purpose thread of some sort, Fallen Enchantress.

[Aeon221]

Sounds like another reason to reload if you lose a battle, frankly. But sure, if you've the right personality for it, no doubt it's an interesting mechanic.

It took me a long time to get over that style of play in 4x games, and I still have the occasional reload twitch. In my R:TW game thread I mention (angrily) how a rogue Spanish ship killed an army + general in a transport that had three fleets near it, and how that sent me to the reload button.

Because I kept that loss and refrained from loading I had a few great wins against the odds rather than dull steamroller wins.

And that's why I like this mechanic. It's not super brutal game ending (which losing a high level champ could be end game), it's just a flesh wound (lol) that gives them personality and makes things interesting. It's not like there are many other distinguishing features.

[Alstein]

How will Stardock determine who bought Elemental?
Is the Impulse data available to them? Will I have to log into the new Stardock with my Impulse account or something?

Stardock still has the data, you'll use that account. A new Stardock Central is coming before this comes out, you can either use their webpage or that client to get the game, according to what they said a couple months back.

[kerzain]

I just want a reg code I can register on Steam. Without reading the fine print, it even looks like it's free (http://www.steamgames.com/steamworks/) for publishers/dev studios to set up. So, how about it? I just can't give the game a a full 10.0 without it at least having this feature.

[Alstein]

I just want a reg code I can register on Steam. Without reading the fine print, it even looks like it's free (http://www.steamgames.com/steamworks/) for publishers/dev studios to set up. So, how about it? I just can't give the game a a full 10.0 without it at least having this feature.

Given that GCII, Demigod, and Sins all are on Steam, I'm sure FE will be as well when they deem it ready for release. Just buy it there.

[kerzain]

I should clarify, I bought Elemental: WOM at release. Because FE will be given to those of us (at no extra cost) who were screwed by buying Elemental:WOM early, this is the version I want the code for. I assume they'll be tied to our old Stardock acct in some way. Somehow I doubt they'll give these codes to WOM refugees though, because WOM owners could just sell them to buyers that might otherwise have purchased a new copy. But, one can hope.

[espressojim]

When I played X-Com I saved every turn and reloaded if any of my guys died.

I know, I know.

This explains why you rage quit the first time you die in LOL, I guess. Good to know.

Seriously, who didn't have a few gimp "scouts" in xcom with a primed grenade in their hand? Even in their dying moment, they might take out a baddie.

(For best results, stay far away from the gimps, and maxle.)

[Pyperkub]

I should clarify, I bought Elemental: WOM at release. Because FE will be given to those of us (at no extra cost) who were screwed by buying Elemental:WOM early, this is the version I want the code for. I assume they'll be tied to our old Stardock acct in some way. Somehow I doubt they'll give these codes to WOM refugees though, because WOM owners could just sell them to buyers that might otherwise have purchased a new copy. But, one can hope.

I really hope that by then they do get it sorted out. I bought both WOM and demigod from stardock but haven't touched them lately since I really don't trust Gamestop. I also have a free battlefield 3 code that I haven't used because I don't trust ea's origin at all.

I actually have a boxed copy of elemental, but I don't think that will matter.

Epic 4g/Tapatalk

[Anders Hallin]

I really hope that by then they do get it sorted out. I bought both WOM and demigod from stardock but haven't touched them lately since I really don't trust Gamestop. I also have a free battlefield 3 code that I haven't used because I don't trust ea's origin at all.
What exactly is it you don't trust? As far as I can tell, GameStop hasn't made any significant changes to the Impulse model, in other words it's still less intrusive than Steam. I don't know about Origin, though.

[Dan_Theman]

They changed the name and a few minor things in the EULA, nothing horrific as far as I can recall. Perhaps the general unease comes from the sense that there was either something to not be trusted due to Brad/Stardock cancelling the existing preorders and sending out those coupons, or that it's just the corporate evilness that Gamestop execs ooze from their pours.

[Alstein]

My issues came from changed (perceived or real) in the direction of the service, combined with that two week period where downloads were dialup speed.

I've heard the latter got fixed, but given what happened, I have better choices for DD with Steam+Gamersgate, so Impulse lost my business. Gamestop hate was only a small factor in that decision (namely in that they didn't get the benefit of the doubt the way Stardock would have in a similar scenario)

I just hope this game delivers. I'm willing to be patient if the beta gives me some disease, but Stardock has to deliver with this game. I really think their reputation is on the line here.

[KevinC]

I really think their reputation is on the line here.

I think they agree with you, it's the only way you justify spending this kind of cash on developing a game that will be free of charge to a large portion of your customer base. FE went from a free expansion pack to a full-on sequel. I'm hoping it pans out (for my selfish reasons and for the folks at Stardock).

[Foxstab]

I do believe all of our 'selfish reasons' for wanting this to be a success coincide quite well with Brad & Crew's.

[Brad Wardell]

Re The book...

I'll try to ignore the comments on my book. ;) If we ever get together at some show or something, I'd love to tell you all about the eye opening process of "writing" a book for commercial consumption. Suffice to say, I doubt anyone disliked the book more than I disliked writing it by the time it was all done.

Random House is a great publisher and was wonderful to work with but there was no doubt the goal was to maximize unit sales (it sold very well) and that means a lot of people in the kitchen. Editors putting in exposition here and there (I never described Geni's clothing -- "the dress" for instance, that was added by editors to have more exposition). My editing team at Del Rey, btw, was the same team that worked on A Dance with Dragons (and in fact, DE got a lot more time on it because ADWD was so late).

Point being, there's a big difference between writing a book and writing a product. That's the big takeaway I learned. Anyway, that's all I have to say on that.

Re Getting the game...

Now, with regards to FE and how people will get it:

As others have said, FE's not an expansion pack, it's effectively a sequel. Very little from WOM made the transition (other than some of the art style). Anyone who bought WOM in 2010 gets FE for free.

The way they'll get it is that they can either (a) download it from http://download.stardock.com directly or

(b) use the new Stardock Central that'll be out soon (advantage there being it'll handle the install so you won't have to enter a serial #, just your UserID and PW that you already would have).

Users won't have to do anything to get it, it'll be automatically added to their account and an email will be sent out when the beta is nearly ready to let them take a peek if they want.

Re WOM Crumminess

There's been plenty of discussion of why WOM was awful at release both internally and externally. To make a long story short, cognitive dissonance is a dangerous thing. It was widespread internally to a degree that, with hindsight, is hard to believe. There were warning signs on CD prior to the game shipping even on Qt3. There was an incident here with Warlords BC3 that was an example of how far CD had spread in the internal culture.

It was an ambitious design with a hobbyist-level development structure. Combine that with a healthy dose of team sleep deprivation and you have a disaster waiting to happen. The most tragic thing is that we weren't under pressure to release it when we did (well, in the end we were because at that point, contracts signed) but the Stardock team of today would have pushed its date back 6 months long before the game's ship date loomed. Very different setup then than what we have now.

Re FE development

In many respects, Elemental will have saved SD's games unit because production requirements of a modern PC game have grown so much over the past decade that barring the occasional Mindcraft you have to have a serious software development process to make commercial PC games and it was better that a big shock occurred when Stardock was in a healthy financial place than say at some future date when times are tougher. Stardock was able to afford to go out and begin recruiting a lot of talented people. The FE team is 1.5X the size of the WOM team was at its maximize size and has been for almost a year. And the quality of developer (all veterans) be recruited has made a huge difference.

There's no way to change what happened. But what we can do it do our best to make sure Fallen Enchantress is compelling. Whether we succeeded in doing that will become very obvious when the beta hits.

Sorry so long. My Sith Marauder needs me now.

[kerzain]

You know what book I'd buy? A Post Mortem on Elemental from start of development, through to the release and critical reception of FE.

[Brad Wardell]

You know what book I'd buy? A Post Mortem on Elemental from start of development, through to the release and critical reception of FE.

There's a little bit of one here:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/03/gdc-stardocks-brad-wardell-explains-the-failure-of-elemental-a/

This was from GDC.

Here's the image I used in the presentation:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2011/03/img1793.jpg

[kerzain]

I eat that kind of stuff up. I was along for the ride too with WOM (as a gamer and Qt3 member, duh), but it's always interesting hearing about details that don't make good forum fodder.

[Brad Wardell]

We have Qt3 get togethers at some of the trade shows, off the record I can talk about all kinds of stuff. Even in a train wreck situation, it's often hard to explain the full picture in a way that can be digested in a forum posting.

A train wreck like WOM took a mountain of bad decisions that are best appreciated in hindsight (like sending our top developers to work on Impulse not realizing that the reason we got away with our non existent development process was because our best developers were the ones holding it together on our previous titles and they weren't on WOM until the last few months).

[ShivaX]

Well, heres hoping the game is half as good as I hoped the first one would be. :)

[Jab]

Regarding the new stardock central, besides elemental, can someone transfer the games they bought from impulse over to SDC, or will it just count towards Elemental?

[Nephrinn]

Re Getting the game...

The way they'll get it is that they can either (a) download it from http://download.stardock.com directly or


Holy crap that worked! I didn't even know this existed. Woohoo! Now I don't have to worry about my problems with Impulse. :D

[Foxstab]

Here's the image I used in the presentation:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2011/03/img1793.jpg

The car of the future!
Hah, I remember that episode. So much hubris.
"Homer is an American! Tell them what Americans want, Homer!"

Hmm, this might be the explanation on how come Capcom decided that DMC is "too Japanese" and that they need to "westernize" it for the overseas audience and we got this horrendous DmC as result. Probably some twilight emo loser is a brother of a guy in management.

[Alstein]

You can play FFH2 in the meantime then. I assure you that you won't be disappointed. Find some friends and play an epic campaign.

There's plenty of FFH derivatives out there these days as well, Master of Mana is probably the best of the bunch, though it's a very different game with some problems of its own.

[KevinC]

So Brad has a running diary (http://forums.elementalgame.com/414631) of his AI work on Fallen Enchantress and how it is progressing. Has some pretty interesting stuff.

[Aeon221]

Brad I demand at least one item with a description of "silk or something".

I mean really those descriptions, whether or not they are your fault, are deep within "so bad it's good" territory. You could probably use some choice phrases from Angie's blog for tshirts and plush toys.

[Aeon221]

I thought champs were supposed to be monster killers, not one man armies?

If you played Men of War, I'd sort of like them to be like the tanks in that game: strong, but easily countered and in desperate need of supporting soldiers. Otherwise you can easily end up with WOM style sov rushing. Some games do that by attaching the hero to a unit. You could also do it by increasing their stats based on the soldiers they are with.

One thing that King Arthur game's Saxon expansion did that was both creative and relevant was limit the number of heroes in an army based on the leader's leadership stat. That'd provide another route to cut down on herostacking. They also had a brilliant seasonal system that you really ought to steal. It definitely fits the standard fantasy model better than the civ style 'no difference between turns' thing.

Didn't watch the vids yet, but definitely interested.

[John Reynolds]

My editing team at Del Rey, btw, was the same team that worked on A Dance with Dragons (and in fact, DE got a lot more time on it because ADWD was so late).

There are some editors who need to find a new profession then, because the exposition in Dance was also pretty bad at times.

[kerzain]

A Dance with Dragons was edited? What alternate reality have I just stumbled into?

[Aeon221]

If by that they mean it only had eight billion words rather than the twenty billion GRRM wanted, well, then I guess that counts.

But dear fuck once again the rule of CUT CUT CUT KEEP CUT CUT CUT was not followed, and with disastrous results.

[Fenris99]

For those of us who bought the base game before the deadline, will this be on Impulse or Stardock's new site?

[kerzain]

Yes.5

(Stardock's for sure, dunno about Impulse)

[Fenris99]

Yes.5

(Stardock's for sure, dunno about Impulse)K thx

[James Johnson]

To be fair, at least the book matched the game in content and quality.

[Aeon221]

To be fair, at least the book matched the game in content and quality.

JAMESJOHNSON5, WHICH BOOK?????

[Alstein]

Yes.5

(Stardock's for sure, dunno about Impulse)

I think it's been confirmed that the release version will be on Impulse.
I can't see this game not making Steam.

The Stardock keys, I don't know if they'll be transferable to Impulse, they won't be to Steam.

[kerzain]

I think it's been confirmed that the release version will be on Impulse.
I can't see this game not making Steam.

The Stardock keys, I don't know if they'll be transferable to Impulse, they won't be to Steam.He wasn't asking about the wide release, but the copies being allocated to original WOM owners (at no extra charge).

[Foxstab]

Didn't Brad already answer this a couple pages back?

[kerzain]

I don't know, Foxstab, why don't you quote him and rub our faces in it.

[Aeon221]

Didn't Brad already answer this a couple pages back?


I don't know, Foxstab, why don't you quote him and rub our faces in it.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/5/8993560d-4404-4cab-ad6b-7e1d66857988.jpg

[Morberis]

The Stardock keys, I don't know if they'll be transferable to Impulse, they won't be to Steam.

Do you have a source for that?

[James Johnson]

JAMESJOHNSON5, WHICH BOOK?????

Electronics Boutique

[Foxstab]

I don't know, Foxstab, why don't you quote him and rub our faces in it.

Roid rage much, Paul?

[kerzain]

You know, you could have saved that for an actual ragey post. It wouldn't have landed with such a thud, might even have seemed clever. But now you just look stupid.

[Foxstab]

Shrug mate. You're the one who jumps up and lashes 'bout. Either that or mistake your personal inner upsetting for actual sarcasm.

[Therlun]

You should tell everyone again how Steam is the devil. Just to make sure.

[Foxstab]

A wild angsty roider appears...

[Aeon221]

Shrug mate. You're the one who jumps up and lashes 'bout. Either that or mistake your personal inner upsetting for actual sarcasm.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkfnl74DaG1qe11kdo1_400.png

[kerzain]

Shrug mate. You're the one who jumps up and lashes 'bout. Either that or mistake your personal inner upsetting for actual sarcasm.
http://i.imgur.com/VeFLb.jpg

[spacemanjoe]

Sorry to interrupt the funny pictures, but do we know when Fallen Enchantress is going to come out?

[kerzain]

Public beta starts next month or something. 1/19 for the folks who were in on WOM early, 1/26 for those who weren't.
Hey, I'm replying to banned people.

Damnit

[RepoMan]

I SEE BANNED PEOPLE

[AquaMafia]

I SEE BANNED PEOPLE

yeh srsly, where's Tom and his ban stick

on topic, cant wait for beta, been wanting a nice fantasy strategy game ever since AoW:SM and CIV:FFH

[Aeon221]

I SEE BANNED PEOPLE

Who got banned?

[Dan_Theman]

Malcolm Crowe.

[Foxstab]

Kerzain, are you done being an idiot yet?

[kerzain]

You and me, we're the only people around who aren't complete fools.

[Aeon221]

Is the AI not recognizing the ability to cast spells like Wither? Because it seemed like one of the vids vs Relias solo your dude caster cast wither and that ended his shit. Like, what was up with that?

Nice to see the AI whupping on you though.

[Brad Wardell]

Is the AI not recognizing the ability to cast spells like Wither? Because it seemed like one of the vids vs Relias solo your dude caster cast wither and that ended his shit. Like, what was up with that?

Nice to see the AI whupping on you though.

The tactical AI code isn't really there yet. Which is a big problem for the strategic AI because the strategic AI will determine whether it should attack based on the quality of the spells it has available to cast in a tactical battle. Which, in turn, it doesn't use and gets creamed.

Over the next month or so I'll be moving on to the tactical AI which will be a "from scratch" effort (other than worker functions). I've had enough time to write out how it'll work, it's just a matter of coding it now.

[Mark Asher]

I hope you add in some kind of random element, as in the AI will do a check and know it has good spells so it normally will attack, but maybe the random roll of the dice makes it hang back. And the same for if it thinks it should stay back -- maybe there's a random chance it attacks anyway.

[Quitch]

Isn't that called fuzzy logic? I think it's normal to include that to prevent an AI becoming too predictable in its actions, isn't it?

[TurinTur]

New video, via RPS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NAsAPJYR1YI

Brad, I would try to get a better framerate for the marketing videos. It seems the game was going kind of slow, which is not a nice thing to show off to future customers.

[DeepT]

I am not sure I like the idea of spells being tired to specific characters. I can see you gaining spells by getting someone new, but the first thing I would do is copy their spell book.

[darkurthe]

I like the idea of spells being tied to heroes. It adds an element of risk when putting them in harm's way or finding new heroes and replacing them (assuming there is a cap ala MoM)

[Kael]

I am not sure I like the idea of spells being tired to specific characters. I can see you gaining spells by getting someone new, but the first thing I would do is copy their spell book.

You can't copy spellbooks. If they have a talent for fire magic and your sovereign doesn't then they will be casting your fire spells. Likewise if you have leveled them up into a Fire Archmage and your sovereign is only a Disciple they will have access to a lot better fire spells.

You could also use the Steal Spirit spell to kill your champion and take one of his spell ranks for yourself. But some (less open minded) folks may consider that mean.

[KiloOhm]

Looks good, I liked the art style of the original but didn't care for a lot of the mechanics. Looks like they are making good progress towards making tha game I will really like.

Now I have to decide if I want to bother with the Beta...

[Brad Wardell]

New video, via RPS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NAsAPJYR1YI

Brad, I would try to get a better framerate for the marketing videos. It seems the game was going kind of slow, which is not a nice thing to show off to future customers.

Yea, the problem is I'm using Jing instead of say Fraps. It makes it a lot quicker/easier to make YouTube videos but it eats frames like crazy (Jing has an actual button to send your capture to YouTube for you). Plus, I always play in the debugger which eats a ton of frames.

I know I should do them as full productions and the marketing people hate me -- in general -- for it all. If Tom Ohle is reading this, he can tell you horror stories. I should be leashed and gagged. It just takes too much time to do a nice video.

[Tony M]

I think I'm getting excited again. When did that happen? Turn based games, I love you so much, I could never hold a grudge.

[pizzaddict]

Must... Resist... Creating... High expectations

[Mr. Zero]

After being disappointed by the skimpy Civ 5 UI -- it was like there was no latch on the hood of your Mustang -- I'm excited by all that... data. And the tooltips.

[DeepT]

You can't copy spellbooks. If they have a talent for fire magic and your sovereign doesn't then they will be casting your fire spells. Likewise if you have leveled them up into a Fire Archmage and your sovereign is only a Disciple they will have access to a lot better fire spells.

I understand the mechanics, I just do not like them. I still want my successor to MoM and in that game, while champions could cast spells, there was only one spell book.

[DarthMasta]

I understand the mechanics, I just do not like them. I still want my successor to MoM and in that game, while champions could cast spells, there was only one spell book.

You'd do well by not thinking of this game as MoM's successor. Nothing good come come from the opposite.

[Mark Asher]

I think I like the idea of spells being tied to heroes. I can have my necro hero, my paladin hero, etc. It's like managing resources -- I really need my pally spells so I baby my paladin hero, but the necro stuff isn't as important so he's heading up my scouting party.

[Alstein]

One of my concerns about this game is the tactical AI. I don't know how much experience Brad has with that, and tactical AI is very hard.

[HahaSoFunny]

Brad Wardell is the executive producer and AI programmer


Does this mean he's the only person working on AI, while also spending time on management tasks?

If so, I'd be quite concerned that there might not be enough manpower to create a good AI by a reasonable deadline, especially considering that this kind of game is possibly among the hardest to create AI for due to sheer complexity and variety.

FWIW, I also strongly dislike the art style, but that's not as crucial as the AI.

[Disconnected]

FWIW, I also strongly dislike the art style, but that's not as crucial as the AI.

... And I'm instantly unexcited again. Thanks, I guess :(

Remember how lots & lots of people have been asking for a movement path+cost indicator since the very first E:WoM beta? Still no sight of this ultra simple and massively interface improving feature in the latest video.

Unlike you, I love the visual style. But just like you, HahaSoFunny, I hate the graphics. The cloth map looks like icons stamped on a piece of cardboard. Shockingly, a simple mod that changed the background colour, made it roughly fifty trillion times more appealing to look at. So how about roughly matching the cloth map background colour with the colour of the 3D terrain? That'd be an even greater improvement, and considering we're talking maybe 10 tiny little textures, I can't imagine any kind of measurable performance hit.

Speaking of performance, though... Every time I've tried to play E:WoM and been confronted with the 3D models, I'm reminded of just how fucking ugly (but brilliantly fun) 2150 (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/earth_2150_trilogy) is. And more importantly, that it's prettier than E:WoM, despite eagerly - almost violently - embracing an art style that can best be described as "this is a lot of grey and it will bore you silly".
But I'm afraid to ask for less horribad 3D models, because E:WoM's hardware requirements are right up there with Twitcher2. So I'm guessing that if the models were actually improved, there wouldn't be hardware fast enough to run the game until 2150.

... I'll refrain from going on, but man... E:WoM really was brought low in a whole hell of a lot of ways, by a whole hell of a lot of things. My confidence in SD's ability to address all of them is... Somewhere below the floorboards in the cellar, I think.

[Peter Frazier]

I'm definitely in 'wait and see' mode for the expansion. I spent quite a few hours playing Elemental before I realised that a)there wasn't much of a game there, b)I had almost never even seen the 3d part of the game because I played it zoomed out exclusively and c)that the tactical battles were a bit of a joke. Adding missions or direction to the game might mitigate (a) and extra work on the AI might help with (c) but I can't get excited about a strategic game's pretty graphics that I won't see. I ended up zooming out because it was the best way to get at-a-glance information. Has there been much done to make me want to either play zoomed in or have a better visual experience zoomed out?

[Alstein]

The movement path thing is being asked for hard on Stardock's forums and they seem receptive to it. Maybe it will be added in the beta.

[Disconnected]

The movement path thing is being asked for hard on Stardock's forums and they seem receptive to it. Maybe it will be added in the beta.

Echo... Echo... Echo...

Sorry, I've been reading your post repeatedly since the first E:WoM beta. I'm pretty sure I've even written your post a couple of times :p

Still, although E:WoM and associated feedback cycle has been the greatest video game heartbreaker in my experience, you really shouldn't let me spoil the anticipation. If nothing else, it's SD we're talking about. They've proven they're capable of making truly great games.

[HahaSoFunny]

Unlike you, I love the visual style. But just like you, HahaSoFunny, I hate the graphics. The cloth map looks like icons stamped on a piece of cardboard. Shockingly, a simple mod that changed the background colour, made it roughly fifty trillion times more appealing to look at. So how about roughly matching the cloth map background colour with the colour of the 3D terrain? That'd be an even greater improvement, and considering we're talking maybe 10 tiny little textures, I can't imagine any kind of measurable performance hit.
I looked at some more screenshots, and in fact it seems that the art style mostly works on close-ups of cities, so maybe the problem lies more in the execution than in the basic concept.

The issues I see:
- Trees just look bad, due to the fact that they have little details, and have a flat whitish top which is unappealing
- Terrain looks like flat paper: they really need to at least apply a procedurally fractal bump/normal map on all terrain, and even better use parallax mapping, as well as static or DX11 tessellation with a procedural displacement map
- At least some units are not detailed enough
- Lighting feels at least a bit off, for example some roofs appear extra-bright

Overall I wonder whether using local HDR tone mapping could produce a similar effect to the art style of the cities, but with enhanced quality and contrast, although I might be quite wrong on this.

Of course, some of these might have already been changed, since it's hard to make sure one is looking at the very latest without actually playing it.

[KevinC]

I think I prefer this over the cloth map, in terms of getting a strategic view of what's going on:

http://www.draginol.com/images/NON-CLOTH-MAP-zoomed-out_B6B1/image_3.png

[Mysterio]

In 10 days, we’re going to start activating Elemental: Fallen Enchantress on tens of thousands of user accounts. It’ll be, by far, the largest “beta” release we’ve ever done.

We’re going to be rolling the dice a little here. There’s no NDA. Players are free to praise or pan what they get.

In the past year, we’ve greatly expanded our development team, brought in industry veterans and with the sale of Impulse, our top game developers have returned to the game unit to work on Fallen Enchantress.

We’re both excited and nervous for how people will react to Fallen Enchantress. It has been our collective “baby” for the past year. More so than anything we’ve worked on before.

I won’t go into too much detail on how many long hours Derek and I have brain stormed different quests, different types of loot, interesting spells, and how to make the AI play differently from one another in a way that’s obvious to players. It’s been a very enjoyable experience having this kind of time to do this kind of thing. And we’re not done.

Owners of Elemental: War of Magic (WOM) will be getting an email next week going through what Fallen Enchantress is and how they can download it.

The beta release will go in two phases. January 19 will be to everyone who pre-ordered WOM. A week later will be everyone else who got WOM in 2010.

Stay tuned!

And to keep expectations safe: Assume the game is so horrible it'll give you a terrible disease.

Link (http://forums.elementalgame.com/415056)

[Jarrodhk]

Will be interesting to see how it is turning out.

[Telefrog]

I'm assuming this will be through the (new and improved?) Stardock web account thing?

[RayRayK]

Well it seemed like the beta for Elemental was a pretty fair indicator of that games mechanics, hopefully the Fallen Enchantress beta turns out differently.

[BleedTheFreak]

And to keep expectations safe: Assume the game is so horrible it'll give you a terrible disease.

This was the advice he gave prior to the Elemental beta. I think this time I'll take him at face value and wait for the 1.3 release or so of FE, just to improve its odds of grabbing my attention and letting me enjoy it.

[Tyjenks]

If I get in, I am on it. I can't not get re-excited.

[KevinC]

If I get in, I am on it. I can't not get re-excited.

I'm kinda the same way. I have a bigger dose of skepticism this time (it's hard not to) but I liked what they were trying to do Elemental. Having another year to work on the game (as opposed to the engine) and bringing Kael & Co on board... umm, yes please. Someone like Kael was exactly what Elemental needed, both in terms of the game design and in terms of running the project.

I sincerely hope it turns out to be an enjoyable game. It's not like quality fantasy strategy games come out all the time or anything.

[scharmers]

I sincerely hope it turns out to be an enjoyable game. It's not like quality fantasy strategy games come out all the time or anything.

This.

[rowe33]

Wow, just checked and I pre-ordered Elemental on 5/17/10. Only took a year and a half to get some possible return on that investment!

[Chaplin]

Wow, just checked and I pre-ordered Elemental on 5/17/10. Only took a year and a half to get some possible return on that investment!

How can you tell when you ordered it?

[rowe33]

How can you tell when you ordered it?

I have my old email - not sure if there's a way to tell in Stardock or not.

[Dan_Theman]

Hey, if it's twice as good as WoM, that's a 200% return in only a year and a half - we may have finally stumbled upon what fills in the mysterious "?" that comes before profit!

[Farscry]

Do I need to get the new Stardock client, or will this show up in Impulse for me if I get access to the beta release? I preordered Elemental pretty much right after they started taking preorders WAAAAAY back when. ;)

[Brad Wardell]

It'll show up at http://download.stardock.com OR the upcoming Stardock client.

[Farscry]

Cool; thanks for the clarification Brad! :)

[Robert Sharp]

What will happen to those of us who pre-ordered, but from Amazon or other places? I have Amazon prime, so I did that to save on shipping and such. Will that not count, because there is no way for you to track it? I can email my order date (or a screen shot of it!).

[Brad Wardell]

What will happen to those of us who pre-ordered, but from Amazon or other places? I have Amazon prime, so I did that to save on shipping and such. Will that not count, because there is no way for you to track it? I can email my order date (or a screen shot of it!).

You'll still get the beta. Just not the 19th probably. It'll be the following week.

[Fenris99]

What will happen to those of us who pre-ordered, but from Amazon or other places?
Yeah, I preordered too, from an actual, physical store. How quaint!

I guess I can wait an extra few days for the beta.

[Kelan]

Thanks for the update, Brad.

Looks like I am all set on your site also. I pre-ordered back in Sept 2009 it says and while the release may have been rough, I really enjoyed the early builds and being able to be a part of the process. Those Ultima style intros were classic.

Really looking forward to seeing all the improvements in FE.

[Brad Wardell]

I'm enjoying getting back to my traditional role here on our games -- complaining and AI coding. I don't envy Derek's job. :)

[Telefrog]

Holy crap.



Elemental [Pre-Order] (Digital Download)
Thursday, September 17, 2009

[Morberis]

Why is there no way to change my email address with the new store?

For a very strange reason years ago I had 2 accounts merged, ever since then periodically it comes up on one of the stardock services where it doesn`t recognize the email address I use but the one that got eliminated instead. For some reason the store is doing that now. It`s no longer an email address I have control over and I really would prefer to change it over.

[lordkosc]

Morberis try this link:

http://www.stardock.com/accounts/accountsetup.asp?SDID=1&Hide=True



Holy crap.

weak....

Order Date: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 Items:

Elemental [Pre-Order] (Digital Download)

[Morberis]

Well strange, thank you. The account management tab that I clicked before had none of that...

But it doesn`t look like I can change my email there either. It`s the only option not in a box.

[GeeWhiz]

Morberis try this link:

http://www.stardock.com/accounts/accountsetup.asp?SDID=1&Hide=True




weak....

Order Date: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 Items:

Elemental [Pre-Order] (Digital Download)




My pre-order was Nov 11, 2008 :>)

Not sure if the original remark was based on the pre-order date or not. I will always support PC turn based games.

[Robert Sharp]

Yeah, really. They are too few already.

Plus, I have a pewter dragon! I guess it's pewter....

[DeepT]

So this isn't done through our Impulse client?

[Razgon]

It'll show up at http://download.stardock.com OR the upcoming Stardock client.


So this isn't done through our Impulse client?

Is your answer

[Farscry]

So this isn't done through our Impulse client?

What Razgon and Brad said. :)

Remember, Impulse was sold to Gamestop, it's not run by Stardock at all anymore.

[DeepT]

Did he copy the impulse user list? I mean, how is it going to know who I am? I just can't create an account and claim to be someone who pre-ordered.

[Razgon]

Did he copy the impulse user list? I mean, how is it going to know who I am? I just can't create an account and claim to be someone who pre-ordered.

use your email adress

[Telefrog]

Did he copy the impulse user list? I mean, how is it going to know who I am? I just can't create an account and claim to be someone who pre-ordered.

If you pre-ordered, then your purchase should be recorded on the http://download.stardock.com/ page. Did you check that yet?

[darkurthe]

I know I should do them as full productions and the marketing people hate me -- in general -- for it all. If Tom Ohle is reading this, he can tell you horror stories. I should be leashed and gagged. It just takes too much time to do a nice video.

Based on what I have seen and the circumstances therein... I am excited. It looks like the game I wanted to play.

[Dan_Theman]

Did he copy the impulse user list? I mean, how is it going to know who I am? I just can't create an account and claim to be someone who pre-ordered.


If you pre-ordered, then your purchase should be recorded on the http://download.stardock.com/ page. Did you check that yet?
As an FYI, my other Stardock purchases also show up for me (i.e. - those I had purchased on Impulse before the sale & from the old Stardock Central in the past).

[KevinC]

This (http://forums.elementalgame.com/415163). A million times this. I'm really liking the more diverse factions.

Some highlights:

-Different base stats for each faction (which includes its champions, armies, etc)
-10 pre-made custom units per faction, that upgrade automatically as new technologies are researched. Sounds like you won't have to continue re-designing your basic units as you get better equipment.
-The factions sound a little more FFH... I don't mean in theme, just that each faction sounds like it's to have a different playstyle, such as:


Capitar is made for trade and generating Gildar. If you can protect your cities then they can afford to pay the wages for the largest armies in the game but you will need to do some work to get there. Their caravans upgrade roads three times as fast as other factions and are immune to attack.

Carrodus gives bonuses to all other units in his army so even if he isn't a match for the strength of Verga or the spell casting ability of sovereigns like Ceresa, he is dangerous when leading large armies.

And


If Kraxis are the turtles, then Magnar are the cockroaches. The start with the Slave Lord faction trait which allows them to feed more people from the same amount of grain, growing larger cities. And when they raze cities half of that city's population is transferred to their capital. Their unique units cost less than other factions, and tend to be a bit weaker as well. The Dross Archer costs less but has less hit points and dodge. The Scourge are decent mid-game melee units but have a lower accuracy and initiative. Finally the Outcast unit is a cheaper version of a Pioneer.

Getting more excited...

[joefriendgood]

This (http://forums.elementalgame.com/415163). A million times this. I'm really liking the more diverse factions.

Some highlights:

-Different base stats for each faction (which includes its champions, armies, etc)
-10 pre-made custom units per faction, that upgrade automatically as new technologies are researched. Sounds like you won't have to continue re-designing your basic units as you get better equipment.
-The factions sound a little more FFH... I don't mean in theme, just that each faction sounds like it's to have a different playstyle, such as:



And



Getting more excited...


Me as well. This is exactly what I loved about FFH. Excitement....building.

[Foxstab]

I am greening with joy.

[TurinTur]

Oh look, now they are implementing the suggestions we (me, and more people) insisted months before the release of Elemental. More race differentiation, from the base army, to having a few unique units in each race to improve the uniqueness even having the template system, to having races with a different feel in the gameplay.

Better late than never :P

[Telefrog]

Kingdom of Hobos. Yessss!

[WarrenD]

This (http://forums.elementalgame.com/415163). A million times this. I'm really liking the more diverse factions.

Some highlights:

-Different base stats for each faction (which includes its champions, armies, etc)
-10 pre-made custom units per faction, that upgrade automatically as new technologies are researched. Sounds like you won't have to continue re-designing your basic units as you get better equipment.
-The factions sound a little more FFH... I don't mean in theme, just that each faction sounds like it's to have a different playstyle, such as:





And



Getting more excited...

This has been the most exciting update yet.

It's really reminding me of Age of Wonders: SM, one of my all time favorites, which had so much replay value because of all the different factions and different play styles of those factions.
I'm also interested in seeing how the tactical part of the game will play out now.

[Nephrinn]

This has been the most exciting update yet.

It's really reminding me of Age of Wonders: SM, one of my all time favorites, which had so much replay value because of all the different factions and different play styles of those factions.
I'm also interested in seeing how the tactical part of the game will play out now.

Yes, this game is starting to reinvigorate my excitement the more I hear about it. I HATE designing my own units in these games. Give me premades that provoke interesting choices about which ones to build to form my armies ala Ages of Wonders: SM.

[bakka bakka bakka]

I had been hoping for some faction information! I really want to recreate the Bannor from Fall From Heaven 2. Let's hope I can come close.

[Bossman]

Just got an email saying that the beta will be released tomorrow. Good stuff.

[Jag]

Just got mine as well.

[Brian Rubin]

Me too! YAY!

[Fenris99]

Not me :(

I guess I have to wait the extra week or so.

[KevinC]

Well, excitement dropped to nil for me personally. MP has been removed from Fallen Enchantress entirely. It's in his post here:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/415232

I feel that's a little late to be springing info like that considering earlier it was stated that MP in FE was getting some serious love. I know that's probably not a big deal to most of you but MP is the reason I bought Elemental but never GalCiv.

Hopefully FE turns out great for most, but if the intent was to make up for WoM it utterly failed for me. Having this kind of info drop two days before I get the beta has seriously pissed me off.

[Lorini]

I'm impressed that they are going without an NDA, even though they are hardly enforceable anyway. I'm sorry about the lack of MP, maybe they can get it in later.

[Brian Rubin]

I'm fine with no multiplayer, bring it on I say. I wanna play!

[Nephrinn]

Could care less about MP, just give me the SP "MoM" experience we were promised over a year ago.

[Brian Rubin]

Could care less about MP, just give me the SP "MoM" experience we were promised over a year ago.
Exactly this.

[Giaddon]

This is the one with Jon Shafer on it, yes?

[RepoMan]

I'm fine with no multiplayer, bring it on I say. I wanna play!

Ditto. Fuck other people.

I however have gotten no email yet... wait... spam folder... arrgh! Nothing!

For those hoping for them to add back in multiplayer, have fun waiting for your hell snowman:


There will be NO multiplayer

While internally we have multiplayer, we’ve turned it off. The release game won’t have it either. The reason is that tactical battles would have to be rewritten to support it (MP code needs to be message based but the tactical battles all call directly to internal variables which makes it easier to have greater performance but it means no MP). We decided it would be better to have no MP than gimpy MP for FE. Don’t bother arguing this point as it’s already been hashed out endlessly internally and it’s decided. We may bring it back in some future expansion but no promises because rewriting tactical is a non-trivial endeavor.

Translation: never. gonna. happen.

Edit: yay! Found the Stardock email, should be good to go tomorrow. See y'all here!

[jpinard]

When is the new stardock client coming?

[Morberis]

I don't know if I got an email or not because they won't let me change my email from a defunct email to a new one! =P

Tbh I should probably contact support instead of whining...

[Brian Rubin]

Yeah, contact support. I had a similar issue and it was handled easily.

[Nephrinn]

I don't know if I got an email or not because they won't let me change my email from a defunct email to a new one! =P

Tbh I should probably contact support instead of whining...

I was able to finally change my defunct email at: https://store.stardock.com/myaccount

It's under password management. It worked, but no email for me since I was too late. Do you actually need to click a link within the email to confirm beta access or will it just show up on your stardock account?

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I was able to finally change my defunct email at: https://store.stardock.com/myaccount

It's under password management. It worked, but no email for me since I was too late. Do you actually need to click a link within the email to confirm beta access or will it just show up on your stardock account?


I think you just log on to the Stardock account. Check your games list, it should appear there. I think the e-mail said something about a 3:00 EST is the approximate time it would be going out.

[Alstein]

I'm hoping this is the case. I haven't gotten my email yet, but I should- I remember playing the first beta of WOM.

Hoping Stardock didn't lose my email or get it confused with my old one, I've had issues along those lines in the past, though they seemed to get resolved when Impulse was taken over by Gamestop.

[Jon Shafer]

This is the one with Jon Shafer on it, yes?
So they say.

This one is Derek's baby though.

- Jon

[Jag]

At least we know who to hurl the trident at.

[Mr. Zero]

Will someone who gets in the beta do us curious people a favor and put together some impressions? An AAR would be amazing.

[BleedTheFreak]

I was thinking of skipping the beta, but I suppose I could fire it up and play a quick game and post some screenshots and thoughts on it. Maybe Tom would let me put that up on the front page again, like I did for the Tactics Ogre PSP game last year.

[Morberis]

I was able to finally change my defunct email at: https://store.stardock.com/myaccount

It's under password management. It worked, but no email for me since I was too late. Do you actually need to click a link within the email to confirm beta access or will it just show up on your stardock account?

I would never have looked under changing my password to change my email, thanks.

[Mr. Zero]

I was thinking of skipping the beta, but I suppose I could fire it up and play a quick game and post some screenshots and thoughts on it. Maybe Tom would let me put that up on the front page again, like I did for the Tactics Ogre PSP game last year.

That'd be excellent.

[Taranis]

Well, excitement dropped to nil for me personally. MP has been removed from Fallen Enchantress entirely. It's in his post here:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/415232

I feel that's a little late to be springing info like that considering earlier it was stated that MP in FE was getting some serious love. I know that's probably not a big deal to most of you but MP is the reason I bought Elemental but never GalCiv.

Hopefully FE turns out great for most, but if the intent was to make up for WoM it utterly failed for me. Having this kind of info drop two days before I get the beta has seriously pissed me off.

I'm right there with you, I originally spent $60 for a TBS game with robust MP which now will never materialize.

My attitude with Stardock has changed from being a fan to, I'll believe it when I see it. Stardock has repeatedly made promises they don't keep. They string customers along and then say Oops we changed our minds or we can't do that after all; that's not the way to keep a long term fanbase.

I hope FE is a success and wish everyone at Stardock well, but you lost my trust.

[JM]

I was thinking of skipping the beta, but I suppose I could fire it up and play a quick game and post some screenshots and thoughts on it. Maybe Tom would let me put that up on the front page again, like I did for the Tactics Ogre PSP game last year.

No offence, but I hope he doesn't. It's publicity they haven't earned, and putting early betas on the front page strikes me as a bad idea.

[Giaddon]

So they say.

This one is Derek's baby though.

- Jon

OK, cool. I ask because I am playing Civ V now and really enjoying it, and I was wondering if you had some input into this game. Looking forward to the reports on the beta tomorrow. I remember checking the SOTS2 thread the day that was released, man was that a tragedy. Hopefully happier news tomorrow!

[Jon Shafer]

OK, cool. I ask because I am playing Civ V now and really enjoying it, and I was wondering if you had some input into this game. Looking forward to the reports on the beta tomorrow. I remember checking the SOTS2 thread the day that was released, man was that a tragedy. Hopefully happier news tomorrow!
Brad and I pitched in some design and UI suggestions, but Derek was the lead on the project. Hopefully the game ends up being to your liking. :)

- Jon

[KevinC]

I'm right there with you, I originally spent $60 for a TBS game with robust MP which now will never materialize.

My attitude with Stardock has changed from being a fan to, I'll believe it when I see it. Stardock has repeatedly made promises they don't keep. They string customers along and then say Oops we changed our minds or we can't do that after all; that's not the way to keep a long term fanbase.

I hope FE is a success and wish everyone at Stardock well, but you lost my trust.

Yea... this is all too much of a repeat for me, with Elemental's launch. I really do wish them the best because I think Kael is brilliant and I'd really like him to succeed, but I think it's checkout time for me and this company. I probably should have got the memo after Demigod and Elemental, but they wanted to earn back trust with a (free) Fallen Enchantress, so I wanted to give them a shot.

[Tony M]

Maybe Tom would let me put that up on the front page again, like I did for the Tactics Ogre PSP game last year.

That is acceptable only because I already get a copy of Fallen Enchantress for free. Last time you did a game diary I ended up buying a PSP.

[Foxstab]

Bleed, maybe it's time you ask people for money in exchange for using your persuasive mind tricks.

[Giaddon]

Seems weird that they won't have multiplayer w/o tactical battles. Is there no auto-resolve feature? The game seems to have a lot more going for it than just the tactical battles, so I am surprised that that's the only given reason. Couldn't hotseat work (even with TB)? I don't know programming.

Still, most of my play (were I to buy it) would be singleplayer, so this doesn't effect me much. A curious decision.

[Lorini]

Beta is up (at least for me:)

[Nephrinn]

Beta is up (at least for me:)

Oh sweet mother of Christ, I'm in! Woohoo! 2GB download here I come!

Must keep expectations low, must keep expectations low, must keep expectations low.

[RepoMan]

90% downloaded. Can't play until tonight, but will AAR the trainwreck. Pessimism levels holding steady.

[BleedTheFreak]

90% downloaded. Can't play until tonight, but will AAR the trainwreck. Pessimism levels holding steady.

Except for I'm at 17%, this is me as well. I'll write it up, but I have some serious trepedations. Hopefully I'll have at least enough fun with the first half an hour of the game to put something together for the non-testers who are curious can read about it a bit if they like.

[dbd1963]

I didn't get an email, but I got the beta also. Yay me!

[oyvindmo]

Ooh, thanks for the heads-up!

8 minutes remaining...

[Morberis]

The liscence agreement that you see when installing reads


Add a license..rtf or license.rtf, or license..txt or license.txt file to your project as a support file/creative to display it here.

I hesitantly agreed. Which might be why the installation later failed.

The second time I tried there was a licence, and it again failed. But the third time! That time worked.

[Alstein]

I've played for about an hour today- it looks a game that's rough around the edges but with a ton of promise.

[BleedTheFreak]

So I was invited into the Elemental Fallen Enchantress beta thanks to my early pre-order of Elemental now about 18 months ago. Elemental was supposed to be the next Master of Magic, one of my favorite strategy titles of all time, but was instead a buggy, unplayable mess loaded with confusing and unpleasant gameplay and visuals and several serious gameplay/mechanical issues. I won’t get into what made that game awful, but suffice it to say, Fallen Enchantress is supposed to be a “sequel” and not only is it designed as an apology for Elemental – it’s free to people like me who purchased Elemental prior to 2011.

So I got in the beta, an open beta (no NDA), because I’m a sucker, basically.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/sdlufkin/FE1.jpg

However, for the first time since I tried the Elemental beta that first time (shudder) I’m heartened. Here we have a game with a great concept, some nice user-interface updates, and some helpful tutorial videos to help explain what’s going on and how to navigate in the world.

Is it better? Certainly. Is it the Master of Magic game we all hoped for? That remains to be seen (and yeah, I know, it's not supposed to be). It’s interesting, it’s certainly more enjoyable than Elemental ever was, but there are still some “what?” moments, such as exploring near my city and having a Drake’s Army (deadly) wandering pretty close to my borders, or how a troll decided to rampage into my territory and crush my newly built Air Shard. Some of this is balance issues that are easy to address, some of them are my own learning/mistakes.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/sdlufkin/FE2.jpg

The game crashed after about an hour of playing around, right after my spearmen were soundly trounced by a troll. Before the crash, I had fun researching new technology, though the pace (in general) seemed to take quite a while to research new things, even tier one and two things from the various trees (like 20-25 turns a technology) and since I didn’t go with any warfare stuff right away, I was stuck using only my sovereign to explore. She got killed by a pack of Medium army strength fire snakes and I never saw her again, even though the note when she died indicated she’d be back after 20 turns. I assume now as I type this that she was in my city but I didn’t (until now) remember the garrison section of the town card off to the right. I bet she would have been there.

The game sort of needs CiV style events to help remind the player of things, such as when something in town finishes building, or when a sovereign has resurrected, now that I think of it.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/sdlufkin/FE3.jpg

The (early game) battles and combat are fun and feel good. I was hoping for a way (and maybe I just missed it) to find out the special abilities of a creature or unit though. I clicked on the troll when I saw him regain some health at one point (regeneration, I assume, which is a great start) but I couldn’t figure out how to get that information.

The beta has some bugs but seems fairly well put together so far. I should have made a list of the bugs I noticed (cursors not changing from the crossed swords when trying to click OK on a menu, “string not found” tool tips in the game setup menu, etc.) but I’ll leave that to the more die hard beta testers. I DO want to lodge (once again) a complaint that the 3D unit portraits (especially sovereigns) look TERRIBLE – especially compared to the landscape and battle ground artwork. It’s a handsome game in some areas, terribly amateur in others.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/sdlufkin/FE4.jpg

In the end, I’m much more excited than I was a few months ago. I only got very early into my first game, and it looks like (at least in this beta) we once again only have pre-made (nonrandom) maps to draw from so we definitely have some work ahead of us (and by US I mean Keal and company) but I feel more hopeful that the end product will at least be a huge step in the right direction.

I probably won't put more time into it for a few more "beta patches" but I'm .... cautiously optimistic.

[Stepsongrapes]

but there are still some “what?” moments, such as exploring near my city and having a Drake’s Army (deadly) wandering pretty close to my borders, or how a troll decided to rampage into my territory and crush my newly built Air Shard. Some of this is balance issues that are easy to address, some of them are my own learning/mistakes.

I'm going to go into old geezer mode here, but games nowadays don't hit you with the tough luck stick enough.

MoM could absolutely crush you with a bad setup. For me, a 4X is badly balanced when random shit screws you in the mid game. But getting screwed in the early game by bad luck (or having a crazy good start due to good luck- hello multiple mithril deposits by a river) is just a bit of spice that leads to starting a new game.

Thanks for the AAR.

[GuildBoss]

I like random sh#& storms that knock you back on your heels. Like the time in an early Civ 4 multiplayer game when a raiding band of Philistines conquered my newly built 2nd town! Rage quit? No way. Pick up the pieces and get back into the fight, says I! :)

Anyway, looking forward to trying FE.


I'm going to go into old geezer mode here, but games nowadays don't hit you with the tough luck stick enough.

MoM could absolutely crush you with a bad setup. For me, a 4X is badly balanced when random shit screws you in the mid game. But getting screwed in the early game by bad luck (or having a crazy good start due to good luck- hello multiple mithril deposits by a river) is just a bit of spice that leads to starting a new game.

Thanks for the AAR.

[Telefrog]

I didn't get an email, but I got the beta also. Yay me!

Yup. I never got an email either, but I assumed I'd get in thanks to my early preorder of Elemental. I checked the Stardock myaccount page, and there it was! Woo!

[bmsardou]

My game wouldn't let me end turn after 30 or so turns. I think the game showed far more focused direction than elemental but if I can't play it I have little hope. I think with the previous fiasco they should have called the final product a beta then gone from there. If you played the original game and though 'oh hey well it's just a beta' then the new version having problems doesn't give a lot of confidence because of how they labeled it.

[Jack Black]

Brad called it fair it was a beta. You can't go much worse than the reaction of Elemental. That day is over (maybe?). The information above gives me a pretty good idea of where it is. I don't know how long this beta process is going to last and if they are in crunch to complete.

[Nikolaj]

I've been spending a couple of hours with it, and I like it much better than Elemental, so far. I'm still only scratching the surface, and since I haven't been following the developer diaries, I'm not sure exactly what has been changed, and I've yet to figure out a lot of stuff, I'm sure.

The spell and character system are better this time around, and I've been having quite a bit of fun with the tactical battles. I think that the economy/city system is better, too, but to be honest, I can't quite recall what it was like in the original Elemental. I'm still not sure if the game has any "soul", though, which was one of the things the original Elemental sorely lacked, in my opinion. I guess time will tell.

There seem to be a couple of unimplemented features (such as the kingdom report, which just says "coming soon"), and I've had a few crashes and graphical glitches, but otherwise it runs quite well.

[Chaplin]

I loaded up the beta and played around for about 20 minutes, and I dare cry foul on Brad's advertisement-- I did NOT end up with a disease after playing! =)

Look, clearly I can't tell much from 20 minutes, but I did enjoy it a LOT more than I did in my first 20 minutes (or hours) with E:WoM. The world feels more fantasy (rather than all human) which is a plus for me. The little bit of adventuring was fun and felt like...adventuring. Combat was fun (don't play with a bear early on). I thought the interface was confusing, but, to be fair, I skipped the tutorial just to get a quick peak. When I have more than a few minutes before bed, I will hit up the tutorial. I do wish I could move to the edge of the map more easily though.

So???

No disease yet also no replacement for sliced bread. The best initial review I can give, is I am glad I will have it at the start of a weekend. =) Here is to hoping we are all winners here.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Chaplin, I'd pretty much just say ditto to what you wrote but instead of 20 minutes of exploration I spent 20 minutes on the tutorial. I rather liked and enjoyed what I experienced. The pop up videos are pretty cool, although I only played two or three of them.

[RepoMan]

Welcome to my Hideously Detailed, Stream-Of-Consciousness, Random-Wall-Of-Text Fallen Enchantress AAR, typed realtime during my first launch of the Fallen Enchantress beta. It would be much better with screenshots. Unfortunately for you I can't be arsed to do any. Fortunately for you, other people even more OCD than myself will have screenshots of fucking everything all over the internet by tomorrow.

HERE WE GO!

Registration program puts up a rotating doodad that doesn't stick to its window, and then reports "Error registering the product"! OH NOES DRM FAIL!!! But then try again and immediate success, yay.

Having never actually installed War of Magic, a sense of irrational yet profound peace and completion comes over me at seeing the main menu. Finally some value for money, or so my heart wants to believe!

In the options, you can pick one of five image formats for screenshots. Nice touch! Generally looks like options menu is pretty fleshed out even for early beta.

It defaults to "Desktop" resolution. THANK YOU. Why doesn't every game do that already?

Advice on the loading screen (what a nice universal trope) says to update your roster as you advance in technology. Auto-update a good idea, perhaps?

OK, first thing, found a capital. Each tutorial popup has a "Watch Video" button. WHO IS GIVING THE VOICEOVER? Is it Derek, huh huh is it is it???

Left-click to select, right-click to move. Tile yields a la Civ, grain vs. material. Really nice to have the full voiced tutorial.

Ooh, some improvements can give bonuses to every unit built in the city. Current tutorial objective is shown at top center of the screen, a nice idea.

Research includes new diplomatic options! Trees: civilization, warfare, magic. I loooove econ research, I am always a fool for it in these games, like Alpha Centauri. In fact I always suck at warfare. Let's see how this one goes....

Wow, magic tree includes researching the ability to take on uber quests and find uber heroes. That's cool.

Really nice tooltips on basically everything in the research menu -- select Mining, it shows you that it unlocks Gold Mine and Iron Mine; mouse over Gold Mine, and tooltip tells you it provides +1 metal for +1 maintenance cost. Clearly a lot of thought into showing information. If you can't cast a spell, a tooltip explains why not.

BETA SUGGESTION #1: I think the spellbook should be on top next to research, not in some bizarre lower-right place next to the Done button.

Lots of "Notable Locations" marked by green treasure chests. OH GOODY GOODY GOODIES! Having flashbacks to Heroes of Might & Magic. FIRST GOODY: Masterwork Chain Vambraces. GAZE WITH AWE ON MY GLEAMING FOREARMS!

Hm, just got completed research. That's odd, I don't remember hitting the Done button, but I thought it said two seasons to get that. And why is the screen not scrolling to follow my sovereign?

Ooh, you can set up a research *path* in the research screen. I clicked on Mining despite Restoration not being ready yet, and it highlighted it. Now Restoration is done and the dialog gives a default button to "continue research" on Mining. NICE! Avoids the ping-pong back to the research screen. Oh wait, maybe the accelerated research was because of the nifty Inspiration spell I cast on my lil' ol' hamlet.

ARROW KEYS DO NOT SCROLL THE MAP! THEY MOVE YOUR SELECTED HERO! In this case, they move them off screen. CANNOT SEE THEM, CANNOT SCROLL MAP.

BETA SUGGESTION #2: have mouse-to-edge-of-screen cause scrolling, by default!
BETA SUGGESTION #3: have the first tutorial video talk about how to move around the map!

Minimap to the rescue! OK, now what was I doing? Oh yeah, training a unit. But you can design your OWN units, gimme some o' THAT! Unit design screen has three available perk slots, multiple tabs for picking what type of weapon you want (one-handed blunt, two-handed blunt, two-handed pierce), armor (helm / breastplate / bracers / cloak / shields / greaves / boots), equipment (whoa cool! a Ring of Storms! lemme give THAT to somebody!), the ability to pick hair and shirt for this unit?!, and various traits (ironskin, muscle, scout -- basically class-like bonuses). Designing a unit is not unlike equpping an NPC in an RPG. Unfortunately I seem to be perk-free at the moment.

But let me make a super-scout using this handy compass and telescope I seem to have lying around. Huh, there are various kinds of outfits but they don't layer. And what happened to her HAIR when I put on that CLOAK? No matter, let's select another hairdo, and my God she looks like Cloud from Final Fantasy now. If I knew where the screenshots went I could upload the one I just took.

Huh, the Scout trait is +1 Movement -20 Weight Capacity, but the Fast trait is +1 Movement, +1 Initiative. That seems strictly better, why take Scout? OHHH, I SEE, you can take THREE traits. They are called "traits" on the tab but "perks" in the green circles.

BETA SUGGESTION #4: call them "perks" or "traits", but not both!

Each additional perk you take or piece of equipment you use increases the unit's cost, which of course makes sense.

OK, now my UberScout shows up in the list of trainable units, go me. Dutifully I train a Pioneer, and the game tells me it will take a while, and I should "use this time to expore the East and see what other mysteries lie beneith the fog." Oh well, it is a beta and it will give me a HORRIBAL BADD SPEELING DISAEASE

It occurs to me that I should cast Inspiration again, but it looks like it can be cast only once per city. Is it a permanent buff??? That's rather nice. Yes, yes, it shows up as an evidently permanent enchantment. That'll reduce micro right there. Hm, this city has an income of -0.6 Gildar. How much friggin' Gildar do I have? Uh oh, it's time to NAVIGATE THE INTERFACE... ahh, there it is in the upper right of the main screen, 439 Gildar, in red, even, and handy tooltip says I've got income of -0.6 per season. Interface win. Ah, next to it is my available mana, which evidently is a resource like gold. I'm getting 2 mana per season now, gotta get MOAR SPELLZ0RZ.

There's a little dialog for setting the tax rate, as you move over one or the other arrow it shows you which econ stats (income, research, production) would improve with that tax rate, and which would worsen, via green/red coloring (like comparing items in an RPG). VERY nice.

There is a Show Hiergamenon button (WTF is a Hiergamenon? evidently the gameapedia), but it is empty until you click an odd fullscreen-like button in the middle, possibly a tutorial issue.

BETA SUGGESTION #5: during tutorial, don't make the Hiergamenon come up blank when you click it from the main screen.

Oh nice, you can see any of the videos right from the Hiergamenon. Good call.

Hm, there are entries for all the enemies in the game. Shrill Lord? Swarm Spider? Umberdroth? Nice! Except part of me wishes they would only share the entries once you actually discover the enemy. How many surprises will there be if everything is pre-documented? Hmm, interesting dilemma.

Let's look at this here Umberdroth. It gets no crits, but it has 95 HP and 31 attack. Its
skills/perks/traits/whateverthefucks are Charge (+3 move and initiative on first turn), Bash (damage-proportional chance to knock victims prone), Overpower (unit's attack damage is "multiplied by the members of the defending group" -- huh? sounds like a Trample mechanic, or something), Large (can't be knocked prone), and +3 spell resistance. YIKES. Is there a RUN THE FUCK AWAY button? Fortunately Brad said the tactical AI isn't in the game yet....

[RepoMan]

Damn, there are quite a few technologies, spells, creatures, improvements, equipment items, resources, and monsters in this game (at least 30 of each). Looks like there'll be plenty of content.

OH DUH, I just used the mouse wheel, which has lovely scroll-out-to-see-the-whole-paper-map behavior. THAT'S how you move the map around. Oh well, I still want scroll-at-edge.

Hm, my spellbook shows I only have one spell, but my hero Lady Procipinee's details show that she knows a whole shitload of spells, like 15 or more. So why only one castable??? Perhaps tutorial issues. Let's see.

OH GOD IT'S ANOTHER HERO! Let's go over and NICELY TALK to her. Ooooh, it's a recruitable champion! Vaerwynn of the Amarians, she's a merchant type, and YES YES I will hire you. Oh shiiit, I walk a bit further and find an inn, and on the horizon a monster fucking earth elemental! Oh wait it has only 9 hp, it's dogmeat next to either of my heroines.

At the inn, some dude wants me to kill some rats infesting his family's burial grounds. OH BOY, KILLING RATS! What RPG-ish experience is complete without rat DEATH? And I moved my main heroine into the same square with my other heroine, and now they are an ESTROGEN ARMADA. Except then I run over there and my main lady goes UNH! and presto, quest over. I didn't even get to click on a rat to kill it!

BETA SUGGESTION #6: allow me to KILL A RAT.

Back to inn, quest complete, +100 gildar (thank goodness, I'm still losing money), and now the inn is gone. GONE, I tell you. I suppose it served its purpose.

OK, time to walk over to that there earth elemental and IT'S ON, BABY. Except, oh shit, we have ZERO defense and 7 attack, and it has 10 attack and 8 defense??? RUN THE FUCK AWAAAAY! But then, after founding my first outpost and starting on an iron mine near my city, I get prompted to go kill the earth elemental anyway. Alright, fine. And by the way, left-dragging the map scrolls it, DOUBLE DUH.

Hm, the tutorial text in the Hiergamenon doesn't want to scroll when the Hiergamenon is up over the tactical battle map.

BETA SUGGESTION #7: check the Hiergamenon behavior when watching a tutorial over the tactical battle screen.

OK, and goddammit, sure enough the fuckin' elemental killed the shit out of my other heroine. It didn't help that I cast Chaos on it twice; the first time it was dazed (yay!), the second time healed for three points (BOO!). It also resisted Slow twice, thereby wasting crucial mana I could have used to heal my other heroine. Oh well, easy come easy go.

....And bada-bing bada-boom, that's it for the tutorial! And that's also it for this AAR -- got a barbell session at 9 AM tomorrow and must sleep. But I know one thing now: I want to play more of this beta. It has hooked me quite effectively. In other words: so far, so good.

[Cal]

I got an email stating that as i pre-ordered elemental i get this game in beta. Do i get the whole game free or just the beta?

[ydejin]

I got an email stating that as i pre-ordered elemental i get this game in beta. Do i get the whole game free or just the beta?

The whole game. It's basically an apology from Brad and Stardock for botching the Elemental Release.

[Cal]

The whole game. It's basically an apology from Brad and Stardock for botching the Elemental Release.

Ahh great i will download. I read the email as them wanting me to beta test the replacement to elemental!!

Downloading now!

[DKDArtagnan]

I pre-ordered, and yet I got no mail :(

Unless I remember it wrong... Hmm...

[Razgon]

Check out the site anyways - it will show up if you are allowed entry to the beta.

[DKDArtagnan]

Cool... Will do :)

[ydejin]

Ahh great i will download. I read the email as them wanting me to beta test the replacement to elemental!!

Downloading now!

Well they do want you to beta test the replacement. It's currently crashing about once an hour for me. But the good news is once it's no longer in beta you get a free copy of the release version.

[Jason Lutes]

I pre-ordered, and yet I got no mail :(

Unless I remember it wrong... Hmm...

Apparently the invites are being sent out in waves, although people are reporting the game showing up on their Stardock accounts without having received the invite. Nothing has shown up yet for me, but my account is via Impulse, and I'm unclear as the relationship between Impulse and Stardock proper now that Impulse is owned by Gamestop. Can I count on FE showing up on my Impulse account at some point? I've contacted Stardock support about the question, but haven't heard back yet.

[Dan_Theman]

I do not believe data is shared after the sale. Therefore, I would not expect FE to show up on your Impulse account, but I suppose one can never be certain until hearing it from the horse's/Brad's mouth.

I'm assuming you preordered FE? If so, try logging into Stardock using the same credentials (this may require using an old password if you changed it after the sale).

[Peter Frazier]

I've played for a couple of hours and have mixed feelings about the game. The world seems much more populated and the UI fixes and game tweaks make it much quicker to get into. I've had a few crashes but almost always when I try to design a unit, so I'm sure that'll be fixed.
I'm just not sure about the pacing. I'd built three cities, two with spearmen and heroes guarding and another newer settlement with my leader holding the fort. The long build times for units and buildings saw me spending little time exploring or having fun and more time garrisoning and watching wandering monsters amble by. The heroes were very weak because at the beginning of the game, you don't have 150 gold to buy a single piece of armour and the beginning mobs are still much stronger than your average hero so there wasn't much levelling.
Any time I tried to consolidate forces the wandering AI would hover around my cities preventing me from moving. After a while two cities were attacked in a single turn and my forces were absolutely smashed. I still can't think of what reasonable strategy I could have used to survive. My units were outclassed, research was too slow and my build queues too slow to defend against neutral monsters, let alone enemy AI.
I'm still getting used to the tactical AI. The lack of a counter-attack ability really hurt compared to Elemental. Now the enemy will swarm you and take you down quickly. I started using quick battle resolution because my tactical results were so poor.
I'm certainly going to push on with the game because there are many things done right but there needs to be some tweaking with the difficulty/reward curve at the start.

[Bossman]

I've played for a couple of hours and have mixed feelings about the game. The world seems much more populated and the UI fixes and game tweaks make it much quicker to get into. I've had a few crashes but almost always when I try to design a unit, so I'm sure that'll be fixed.
I'm just not sure about the pacing. I'd built three cities, two with spearmen and heroes guarding and another newer settlement with my leader holding the fort. The long build times for units and buildings saw me spending little time exploring or having fun and more time garrisoning and watching wandering monsters amble by. The heroes were very weak because at the beginning of the game, you don't have 150 gold to buy a single piece of armour and the beginning mobs are still much stronger than your average hero so there wasn't much levelling.
Any time I tried to consolidate forces the wandering AI would hover around my cities preventing me from moving. After a while two cities were attacked in a single turn and my forces were absolutely smashed. I still can't think of what reasonable strategy I could have used to survive. My units were outclassed, research was too slow and my build queues too slow to defend against neutral monsters, let alone enemy AI.
I'm still getting used to the tactical AI. The lack of a counter-attack ability really hurt compared to Elemental. Now the enemy will swarm you and take you down quickly. I started using quick battle resolution because my tactical results were so poor.
I'm certainly going to push on with the game because there are many things done right but there needs to be some tweaking with the difficulty/reward curve at the start.

On default setting I was able to clear all nearby monsters using just my main hero and his companion so I didn't find it too difficult at all. After your heroes get a couple levels and perks(counter-attack is great), they become quite unstoppable monsters.

[Benhur]

On default setting I was able to clear all nearby monsters using just my main hero and his companion so I didn't find it too difficult at all. After your heroes get a couple levels and perks(counter-attack is great), they become quite unstoppable monsters.

I played for about two hours last night and had the same experience. I quickly gathered two wandering heroes, planted my leader in the capital city, and had my two heroes go exploring. The two heroes were able to go on quests and kill just about all of the wandering monsters around them, and I was able to get them close to level 5. Whenever I ran low on cash I had my heroes sell some loot and all was fine. I found it a fun experience, but research and building units/buildings seemed a bit slow.

[Razgon]

The thing about research being slow, is that if its too fast, then your units risk being technologically behind before they are finished (in that it can take 15-20 turns to create a super unit, and if you can research new weaponry before that?) , so I'm guessing its a trade-off to keep your designed units somewhat relevant.

[Armando Penblade]

Well presumably if both research and building feel too slow. . . you should speed them both up :D. Then, your research *and* units hit faster, but the proportions are the same. . . except you get the same results in less playtime, which strikes me as a more efficient use of gamers' time.

I played about 10 minutes last night. Wasn't immediately struck by enormous differences from late-version Elemental I tried to slog through a couple of months back. Biggest thing was autoplacement of buildings and much more minimalist battle screen, TBH.

Then again, it was 10 minutes, and I don't know what to look for, so what do I know?

[Giaddon]

Well presumably if both research and building feel too slow. . . you should speed them both up :D. Then, your research *and* units hit faster, but the proportions are the same. . . except you get the same results in less playtime, which strikes me as a more efficient use of gamers' time.

That was a trap Civ V at release fell into -- very long build times. Patches have sped things right up, and it feels much better now. Hopefully FE will speed up a bit, too (if that is indeed necessary).

Thanks for the impressions so far, guys. Really great to have some insight into what the beta is like.

[Razgon]

Well presumably if both research and building feel too slow. . . you should speed them both up :D. Then, your research *and* units hit faster, but the proportions are the same. . . except you get the same results in less playtime, which strikes me as a more efficient use of gamers' time.

I played about 10 minutes last night. Wasn't immediately struck by enormous differences from late-version Elemental I tried to slog through a couple of months back. Biggest thing was autoplacement of buildings and much more minimalist battle screen, TBH.

Then again, it was 10 minutes, and I don't know what to look for, so what do I know?

i dont have the game in front of me right now, but I believe you can change the speed of research in the game menu, leading you to play the game exactly like you want it.

Personally, I like slower games, but the option should be there to play the game more effeciently, even though I shudder at the thought ;-)

[Jag]

Anyone know if this can be played windowed? Didn't see an option.

I liked the game, although it felt somewhat generic. I didn't feel any connection to my hero or town. Maybe that will change in the full version.

[Sepiche]

Played for a few hours last night, and enjoying it a lot so far.

I personally don't have problems with the pacing. It basically makes you focus on adventuring and exploring primarily while your cities slowly build themselves up, but at any rate both pacing and research speeds are customizable at the beginning of a game.

And besides using zoom to move around the map, you can also left click and drag.

I also had no problems fighting monsters from pretty early on. It's a bit random and you have to watch for stronger creatures, but there's usually a good number of things you can kill early on to get leveled up a bit.

I'm really enjoying the RPG-like buildup of getting better and better equipment on your heroes not to mention new spells and perks. It really wasn't long until my slightly fragile starting character had started to become a badass warrior.

[Armando Penblade]

Damn, reading all the commentary here today is actually making me look forward to the end of the workday so I can get back to this thing.

Can I just say that I love when a strategy game's abstractions break down. The whole "veteran spearman defeats tank" in Civilization type thing. Here, the notion that a town of 50 souls takes 12 seasons (3 years!) to train a town guard of poor quality with virtually no equipment is. . . patently hilarious?

Unless the guy is just attending military night school or something, working toward an Associates Degree in Fightery, but then his mom got sick, so he had to drop out for a year, and well, you know, times are hard. . .

[Razgon]

Think of it this way.

A town of 50 people, has a lot of things to do besides military training to feed the families and make ends meet thus it takes a long time to train someone of even small ability.

Just the making of weapons was a big undertaking for a small village. A swords value in the old days, or even a horse, was probably not far from the value of an entire village.

[dbd1963]

So far, this feels like you'd expect -- a mix of Fall from Heaven and Elemental: War of Magic. Though I didn't like the art style so well in E:WoM, it's not so bad here. Somehow they've given it a bit of shine.

Normal difficulty is still pretty hard, btw. There are a lot of tough creatures out there and, as in FfH, you spend a good bit of time getting yourself out of a kind of box. Also, the other civs will kick your ass without blinking an eye if you aren't keeping up. So far I haven't gotten to the diplomacy part of the game so I don't know if you can try to bargain your way out of trouble if you go that route.

I have to say, I'm always real bummed if I start and there're no mana sources nearby. I could make them more plentiful in the options, but then everyone would have more. Personally I'd just prefer if you started with at least one mana source since magic is a big deal here.

Maybe I just got used to FfH where you always had some, even if it was only what started out in your capital. I'd be fine with something like that too. I just want some magic, people!

The combat is pretty much what it was before, but the option to speed it up seems to be working better, for me anyway, than it used to. I no longer have to wait for animations that take ten seconds to finish before going to the next action. That is a plus, because I don't really care for the tactical battles. You can't really skip them, though, because you lose too many men that way.

It gets more fun (for me) once you have better magic and some bows to play with.

Please, Derek or Jon or Brad -- can you make sure I get some magic? Five starts, and only one with any magic nearby (and that start got TWO! Too bad it crashed right away..)

[lokiju]

A town of 50 people, has a lot of things to do besides military training to feed the families and make ends meet thus it takes a long time to train someone of even small ability.

While it may be realistic, any game should always consider the fun factor as well. Waiting 12 turns for a simple militia does seem too long.

Didn't I see (and someone else pointed it out) options for development speeds? I'll have to rummage through the options when I get home. I only got to play about an hour last night.

[Disconnected]

Nothing has shown up yet for me, but my account is via Impulse, and I'm unclear as the relationship between Impulse and Stardock proper now that Impulse is owned by Gamestop. Can I count on FE showing up on my Impulse account at some point?

Try logging into Stardock with your Impulse login. It ought to be the same if you haven't changed it yourself, and the act of logging in should auto-direct you to your list of owned SD products. If you can download the beta yet, you should see it there.

Mind, I got the email a couple of days ago. I have no idea if that makes a difference.

[Nikolaj]

I have to say, I'm always real bummed if I start and there're no mana sources nearby. I could make them more plentiful in the options, but then everyone would have more. Personally I'd just prefer if you started with at least one mana source since magic is a big deal here.

Maybe I just got used to FfH where you always had some, even if it was only what started out in your capital. I'd be fine with something like that too. I just want some magic, people!

I think limiting the mana resources (at least in the early game) is intentional. Even though magic is nice, it doesn't seem to be essential, and there are other areas you can focus on, to make up for a lack of mana.

If you really want magic early on, though, you can play as Procipinee (or whatever she's called), who gets +1 mana each turn.