RAGE - New thread for the id game

[malkav11]

Gears of War is a particularly deadly example because not only does it have all the inherent slow, inconclusive clashes of stop-n-pop combat but the enemies are also bullet sponges, dragging everything out even more. Same goes for the first Uncharted.

I guess for me, cover is not a completely terrible mechanic, but I don't want my battles to revolve around it, and certainly not just camping behind cover while the enemies do the same. It's much more engaging as somewhere you haul ass to to catch a breather because you're hurting too bad to continue the main meat of combat. FEAR 3 is a good example - I spent the majority of my playtime sprinting around kicking people and bullet-time shooting them in the face, but if the situation got too hot, ducking behind a nearby pillar or overturned table while my health picked back up was a completely valid option.

Also, Rage doesn't have a cover system, so this is probably not the best thread for this discussion.

[Alistair]

How about health packs? Does it have health packs?

[belgerog]

And a lean key? It better have a lean key!

[Tim James]

I'm throwing wingsticks at all you people right now.

They've started to home in.

[RobotPants]

How about health packs? Does it have health packs?

No! REGENERATING HEALTH!!! >:( !!!!

[TurinTur]

How about health packs? Does it have health packs?


No! REGENERATING HEALTH!!! >:( !!!!

It does have, craft-able (cloth rags + medicine), usable bandages.

[MattKeil]

I realize I am the odd man out here, but I find cover-based gameplay to be infinitely superior to any run-and-gun FPS I have ever played, and that includes id's efforts. The closest and straight up run-and-gun ever got to hooking me was Serious Sam.

FYI, the pace of a game is not ruined if the pace the game achieves is what the developer was trying to achieve by design.

[TurinTur]

"what the developer was trying to achieve" maybe is shit, so then i don't care for that factor. I, the player, judge what is good pace, be by design or by accident.

[DocLazy]

I realize I am the odd man out here, but I find cover-based gameplay to be infinitely superior to any run-and-gun FPS I have ever played, and that includes id's efforts. The closest and straight up run-and-gun ever got to hooking me was Serious Sam.

FYI, the pace of a game is not ruined if the pace the game achieves is what the developer was trying to achieve by design.

There are plenty of other slower paced games that don't force a crappy cover system on the user. You can still take cover behind stuff in these games, if you so wish. It's the stupid push button to take cover thing that I dislike.

[JM]

You got the part where they aren't shipping that, right? They tried it, didn't like it, and removed it. It's gonna be all right! :)

You got the part where he was replying to a generic question about why you would put a cover system into an FPS, yes?

[TurinTur]

Jesus, let's not have a discussion again of cover vs no cover, or health packs vs regen. health.



About the "pace", there is something to point out, and it's that most of the trailers and gameplay videos of E3 are a bit fake (!). The guy who plays for the video/trailers is always moving and turning very carefully, even in combat he doesn't strafe wildly like he could do, like trying to put Rage in a different light, faking a more deliberate pace, a more "console shooter" if you don't mind the expression :P. But in the coop cam. video from the Quakecon, while short and with bad quality, it showed a faster experience, the typical "unrealistic" pace from other games.

[WarrenM]

"what the developer was trying to achieve" maybe is shit, so then i don't care for that factor. I, the player, judge what is good pace, be by design or by accident.
Well, the player can judge what they LIKE as a pacing but it's not the player who decides the best pace for the game design itself. That's the developers job. Both to set that pace AND to make it the one that's most fun.

[DKDArtagnan]

Actually, I don't think anyone can objectively decide what's the best pacing. All we can do is have our own subjective opinion about it, and that goes for the developers too.

[WarrenM]

You got the part where he was replying to a generic question about why you would put a cover system into an FPS, yes?

Oh and I wanted to pass along my congratulations on this move. Taking the style of my post, changing some of the words, and throwing it back in my face was a brilliant move. I am both shamed and humbled. Well done!

[JM]

Oh and I wanted to pass along my congratulations on this move. Taking the style of my post, changing some of the words, and throwing it back in my face was a brilliant move. I am both shamed and humbled. Well done!

Yes, well, if you're going to patronise someone it's probably best to make sure you've read the thread properly first. If you can't take the tiniest bit of flak then don't dish it out.

[lordkosc]

And so the 6 developer videos sold me, I just pre-ordered for PC from amazon.

I am really excited to see ID tech5 and how it runs on my new-ish pc. :)

[WarrenM]

Yes, well, if you're going to patronise someone it's probably best to make sure you've read the thread properly first. If you can't take the tiniest bit of flak then don't dish it out.
Cool, OK. Also, I'd like to thank you for adding (what has now become) a valuable series of posts between you and I to this thread. People will now truly understand what Rage is and what it offers to the gaming community.

Now, before you reply, I realize that it takes 2 to tango and I'd like to say that you are an excellent dance partner. I'd really like to say that. Thanks!

[JM]

Good grief.

[farfrael]

Ladies, take it to PM please :)

Re: RAGE, if they execute this properly, I can see myself absolutely loving it. OTOH, I don't trust them enough to pre-order. Lack of demo (if I remember correctly?) is not helping either.

Time to lit up the Chick signal !

[WarrenM]

I actually did pre-order. They convinced me that it will be a graphical showcase I don't want to miss and that I will want to see it on PC. Well played, id!

[TurinTur]

I would like a demo, of course, but i think they only should make one if it's a proper representation of the actual game. I don't think putting a fps level like the Well or the Prison would be representative and faithful. They would need to show the "vertical slice" of the game. How it integrates fps, racing and the rpg side (crafting, exploration, quests, npcs, inventory).
You need a 2 hour demo with several levels (a npc town, a racing circuit, a pair of "fps levels", a wasteland section to unify everything). In other words, a pretty big and extensive demo, the type of demo it's rarely done.

[belgerog]

I realize I am the odd man out here, but I find cover-based gameplay to be infinitely superior to any run-and-gun FPS I have ever played, and that includes id's efforts. The closest and straight up run-and-gun ever got to hooking me was Serious Sam.

Since there's not that much new info on Rage, we might as well discuss this.

I like games with different pacing, Gears works very well for me because most things are designed coherently and the cover system fits together well with the rest of the game. It's not just something that was tacked on because sticky cover was the trend. You have a pretty good variety of enemies and they all make sense with the slow pace of the game, their health and tactics are appropriately tuned so that all weapons can be useful. It would be pretty awkward to get into cover in a third person shooter without sticky cover, so it works pretty well here. In first person, it's very natural to take cover without having a specific system for it.

But Gears is very specific, and very different from FPSs. Have you tried Stalker, Arma 2, or SWAT 4? Those games would never work well with a third person cover system, because of immersion (Thief 2 would really suck with third person cover) and because there's no risk involved in peeking (as Quitch was explaining). SWAT 4 has the third eye tool, but who uses that on every corner anyways?

As an example, one of the cool things about multiplayer shooters (CS, battlefields) is trying always to be in a good position to maximize your visibility and to predict enemy movements. A third person cover system would make that too easy. It's a great feeling when an enemy you had previously spotted walks into your line of fire exactly where you predicted.

[instant0]

.

But Gears is very specific, and very different from FPSs. Have you tried Stalker, Arma 2, or SWAT 4? Those games would never work well with a third person cover system, because of immersion (Thief 2 would really suck with third person cover) and because there's no risk involved in peeking (as Quitch was explaining). SWAT 4 has the third eye tool, but who uses that on every corner anyways?

I believe SWAT 1 was very strict on you doing the proper things at all times, or the mission would fail. Course, I wasn't very good at it, so that could be what caused the failures as well.

[belgerog]

I've only ever played Swat 3 and 4. 4 is more recent in my memory, and although I used the third eye almost always before breaching a door, I rarely did when turning a corner.

[dermot]

I realize I am the odd man out here, but I find cover-based gameplay to be infinitely superior to any run-and-gun FPS I have ever played, and that includes id's efforts. The closest and straight up run-and-gun ever got to hooking me was Serious Sam.

FYI, the pace of a game is not ruined if the pace the game achieves is what the developer was trying to achieve by design.
I'm with you - even in games where you can run and gun, I tend to be cautious and use cover. Cover systems in 3PS are sort of a natural development I think. If you want enemies to be 'smart' and use cover to flank etc. then you need to give players the ability to take cover effectively as well.

[TurinTur]

And more Carmack.

John Carmack Interview: GPU Race, Intel Graphics, Ray Tracing and Voxels and more! - PC Perspective (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hapCuhAs1nA)

[dermot]

I follow John Carmack on Twitter - I can read the words but I'm fucked if I ever know what he's talking about. I get more sense out of Hendrik Mans' German tweets.

[Chris Nahr]

Great interview, some juicy soundbites in there. Rage engine runs much better on consoles than PCs due to API overhead! Integrated GPUs might soon be faster than discrete GPUs due to shared memory (if they allow direct hardware access)! Future displays will clip to your eye and laser-beam the image onto your retina! Rage uses a terabyte of source artwork!

[Yappie Feet]

Did they catch Carmack coming out of his hotel room or something?

[farfrael]

Rage engine runs much better on consoles than PCs due to API overhead!

I'll admit upfront to have limited knowledge in this respect (and as such welcome any explanation as to why I'm wrong) but that sounds like either 1) total bullshit or 2) somebody did a terrible job on the engine or 3) both.

[WarrenM]

1) total bullshit or 2) somebody did a terrible job on the engine or 3) both.
Yes, John Carmack is known for both of those things so I think you're on to something here...

http://thenextbarstool.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wtf.jpg

[Paul_cze]

I'll admit upfront to have limited knowledge in this respect (and as such welcome any explanation as to why I'm wrong) but that sounds like either 1) total bullshit or 2) somebody did a terrible job on the engine or 3) both.

Chris just didn't phrase it the best way. It does not run "better" on consoles (obviously, since PCs are tenfold faster), but thanks to programming "direct to metal" the latency is much lower on consoles, and if it was possible to program that way on PCs, the difference in quality between consoles/PC would be much more massive than it is currently.

[TurinTur]

In the last interview he comments how on specific operations (like updating a single pixel) is thousands of times slower in pc. It seems that id tech 5 methodology happens to be more geared to be much more efficient in systems where you have direct access to memory (i.e. consoles), as it works loading/unloading/updating little tiny pieces of textures taken from the huge Megatexture relentlessly as you walk over the levels.

[farfrael]

ok, thanks, think I'm starting to understand.

Do you think it is due to Id taking a specific approach with their new engine? Or is it more general and applies to any engine having to go through the operating system/Directx/OpenGl on a PC (i.e. is Ubisoft having the same issues for example)? I guess using some assembly for a limited set of operations is not doable.

[Chris Nahr]

You really should just listen to the interview if you care about such things...

Carmack specifically says it's an issue with the DirectX and OpenGL APIs. They don't allow the kind of access to video memory that's required for optimal performance of Rage's new megatexture engine. Nothing to do with programming language.

[TurinTur]

A bit of both.

First, it's nothing new that computers are less efficient than console, "thanks" to overheads, complex apis, a complex OS in the background, etc. It's also the case of the past generations of consoles and the computers from that time.

That's why the 360 and ps3 can make games with graphics so good! (for the aging hardware they have). Graphics of console games are not very good in comparison with a modern pc, but they would even worse if it wasn't for the fact they are a dedicated gaming machine (so only an essential os, hardware/api geared to gaming, direct access to low level stuff, etc).

But like in previous generations, pc compensate with pure muscle. Also, JC didn't say "Rage engine runs much better on consoles than PCs due to API overhead!". Or at least, what he wanted to mean is "Rage engine runs much better on console than pcs (of comparative hardware or even better hardware by X ratio) due to API overhead". Obviously if you throw some uberhardware, the game will run better in pc.

As i said before, i think it's also in part because their specific approach to their new engine, which have a very heavy emphasis on streaming. If that is because they made their engine thinking in consoles or not, well, i don't know. Someone could say that's the case, but MT started before Rage, part of it was already developed in the Doom 3 engine.

[Teiman]

The iOS Rage game uses the Rage engine?

Then is a extremelly flexible engine.

[Pogo]

Did they catch Carmack coming out of his hotel room or something?

John Carmack is almost always in casual mode. QC 2011 speech was in a polyester t-shirt, FFS.

Also

John Carmack could be talking about how he would do my mom and i would still listen.

Indeed.

[lordkosc]

Steamworks CONFIRMED!

https://twitter.com/#!/Bethblog/status/102128388499709952

[Disconnected]

Damnit... No Rage for me :(

[Sarkus]

Damnit... No Rage for me :(

It must be sad being a gamer and missing a bunch of games because you can't come to terms with Steam. Your choice, of course, and your consequences.

Or you could get the console version. ;-)

[Disconnected]

I've been considering it, to be honest. Though I wouldn't want to play shooters on console. Still, while it's annoying, it's not that big of a deal. There's waaay more Steam-free games I want to play than I have time for :)

[Desslock]

I want this game to be good - I've always been a big Carmack/ID fan -- but it looks like a train wreck to me.

DOOM 3 wasn't the game that some people were hoping for, because of the small environments/monster closets, etc., but it was still bleeding edge in a lot of ways (the computer screens, the character and enemy graphics, lighting), and as a horror shooter I actually really enjoyed it.

But Rage....just looks tired to me. The graphics/physics/environments look good, but not better or even as good as other games - at best it seems a more open environment than prior iD run & gun shooters, which might be good enough if the core gameplay is solid, but overall it looks anachronistic, and the indoor stuff/weapons/vehicles just look bland and forgettable. Hope I'm wrong.

[WarrenM]

If the world offers some exploration possibilities, I think I'll enjoy it. Tim Willits was talking about sewers and such that most players won't see because you have to go looking for them. That kind of stuff excites me...

[JoshV]

But Rage....just looks tired to me. The graphics/physics/environments look good, but not better or even as good as other games - at best it seems a more open environment than prior iD run & gun shooters, which might be good enough if the core gameplay is solid, but overall it looks anachronistic, and the indoor stuff/weapons/vehicles just look bland and forgettable. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm hoping for a cleaner, simpler version of Stalker, with vehicles. A little less inventory management, but still an open world feel in a desolated wasteland. Don't think I'll get that though.

[TurinTur]

but overall it looks anachronistic, and the indoor stuff/weapons/vehicles just look bland and forgettable. Hope I'm wrong.

True, it does have a severe lack of military dudebros, setup set pieces, script driven gameplay, and modern weapons. So "stay frosty" :P.

[RepoMan]

I want this game to be good - I've always been a big Carmack/ID fan -- but it looks like a train wreck to me.

DOOM 3 wasn't the game that some people were hoping for, because of the small environments/monster closets, etc., but it was still bleeding edge in a lot of ways (the computer screens, the character and enemy graphics, lighting), and as a horror shooter I actually really enjoyed it.

But Rage....just looks tired to me. The graphics/physics/environments look good, but not better or even as good as other games - at best it seems a more open environment than prior iD run & gun shooters, which might be good enough if the core gameplay is solid, but overall it looks anachronistic, and the indoor stuff/weapons/vehicles just look bland and forgettable. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm not clear where your apathy comes from. Rage looks like it has had a lot more attention paid to gameplay than, say, Doom III. Carmack is not going to skimp on graphics or physics (what is not awesome about the Rage screenshots?). I'm also not sure what exactly is "anachronistic" about this and not, say, Fallout 3.

id has never been #1 in the originality department. Where they shine is on execution of the features they specifically target, and this time there are more of those than in any previous id game, by far. That, plus the positive early rumblings from just about everyone including Tom, makes me pretty sure this is day one territory.

[Adree]

I'm not clear where your apathy comes from. Rage looks like it has had a lot more attention paid to gameplay than, say, Doom III. Carmack is not going to skimp on graphics or physics (what is not awesome about the Rage screenshots?). I'm also not sure what exactly is "anachronistic" about this and not, say, Fallout 3.

id has never been #1 in the originality department. Where they shine is on execution of the features they specifically target, and this time there are more of those than in any previous id game, by far. That, plus the positive early rumblings from just about everyone including Tom, makes me pretty sure this is day one territory.

Tom liked Mindjack. I'd say his opinion of any game that involves shooting some bullets at things is suspect. If only Rage was turn based!

I love how 80's comic the limited comic series looks though; too bad it's really boring and just makes it look like even more of a Fallout clone.

http://i.imgur.com/Cm7YL.jpg

[scharmers]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/scharmers/421383Queer-as-Folk-Rage-Posters.jpg

[TurinTur]

I didn't want to create a new thread just for this, so i will put it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEyxxpNQFIk&feature=player_embedded

Panel from the Quakecon, 20 years of id software, 65 minutes.

[TurinTur]

Two Carmack interviews, 4 pages each

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6461/carmack_on_rage.php
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Interview-John-Carmack-id-Software,review-1686.html

[TurinTur]

And now you can read RPSer Alec Meer being creepy to a tutorial chick (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/Turin_Tur/Rage/RAGE_Uprising_US_forTranscodemp4_snapshot_0121_201 10804_224139.jpg) of Rage :P
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/23/rage-preview/

[JM]

The chick (http://www.fallout-3.com/drupal/files/images/RAGE_-_Loosum_Hagar.jpg) in question
Fair play, they've done a good job on making her look lifelike. Pretty sure that outfit ain't what we'll see in a post-apoc world, you unoriginal idiots :<

[RepoMan]

Belly tees will never go out of style, not even after the apocalypse.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o8qz3v9DrM4/S3pJyNkfKxI/AAAAAAAABCM/oo4ZgrY8w60/s400/postapocalyptic+pinups.jpg

[dermot]

Oh no! It's the PC brigade!

[Teiman]

Is not smart how game dev's always show the same type of women. Different people like different type of womens. If you can have more than one women in your game, you maximize the probability that gamers find one to love with more different womens models.

I suppose is cheap to only have a single model body. But if is true that sex sell, games are not selling it properly. Is like having the Playboy magazine having only one model.

...

Womens are a thing of nature, and beatiful. By not exploiting this, games become unnecesary ugly. Minecraft is pretty, because shows some natural wonders. Womens are a natural wonder at itself.

[JM]

Oh no! It's the PC brigade!

Not being PC (impossible in the gaming world, really), just pointing out how breathtakingly unoriginal it is.

[TurinTur]

The chick (http://www.fallout-3.com/drupal/files/images/RAGE_-_Loosum_Hagar.jpg) in question
Fair play, they've done a good job on making her look lifelike. Pretty sure that outfit ain't what we'll see in a post-apoc world, you unoriginal idiots :<

In the future, after the war, fuel will be a rare treasure, medicine a luxury item, but what it will be truly lost to society is textile fabric. So in the future, women will have to wear ridicule small tops and shorts. IT WILL BE A GLORIOUS FUTURE.

[Teiman]

I like the style of RAGE. Is stylized, and very photorealistic. Normally realistic and photorealistic are not compatible. If you makes something stylized, it don't look real. If you makes something looks real, it looks clumsy, unelegant and ugly. This is what normally happends wen you turn a comic in real video with real actors.

Not here!. RAGE manage to be hyper realistic, but everything is also stylized.

Is the same style as Borderlands, of course. But here everything is put to the 11th level.

Also, I must add that some people love deserts. Is something serius,.. other people love forests, or a urban landscape, or furry porn, or dragons scale models. RAGE looks like will be a nice desert, as deserts go.

[marxeil]

Womens are a thing of nature, and beatiful. By not exploiting this, games become unnecesary ugly. Minecraft is pretty, because shows some natural wonders. Womens are a natural wonder at itself.

You are the Buddha (or something).

[WarrenM]

Womens are a thing of nature, and beatiful. By not exploiting this, games become unnecesary ugly. Minecraft is pretty, because shows some natural wonders. Womens are a natural wonder at itself.
You defend the wonder of women while sadistically butchering the language you are using to do it.

[Teiman]

You defend the wonder of women while sadistically butchering the language you are using to do it.

I feel bad. Honestly.

Also, It seems you clearly understand what I was trying to communicate. I am not talking about lust, or sex, but the intellectual attraction to beauty.

I disagree with Naeblis and JM. But seems a better idea to "explain my opinion" than attack directly his posts.

And I do really think games are underachieving here. There are other shapes of women that are interesting to men (and womens). By using always the same template, is interesting to some people, but much less interesting to others. Probably is targeting a minority of people.

(sorry, I will feel like this all day (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2347)).

[TurinTur]

I feel bad. Honestly.

Also, It seems you clearly understand what I was tryiing to communite. I am not talking about lust, or sex, but the intelectual attraction to beaty.



tryiing (UGHHH) => trying

communite (this is badly spelled even if you were thinking in the spanish equivalent, comunicar) => communicate

intelectual => intellectual

beaty => beauty

Write with a spell checker activated, both Firefox and Chrome have them.

[DeepT]

If his native language isn't English, then his browser is probably not set to English and hence his spell checker will not correct English misspellings.

[XenoCrash]

tryiing (UGHHH) => trying

communite (this is badly spelled even if you were thinking in the spanish equivalent, comunicar) => communicate

intelectual => intellectual

beaty => beauty

Write with a spell checker activated, both Firefox and Chrome have them.

What a jerk-ass way to correct his post. It's not the typos and minor misspellings that make Teiman hard to understand.

I've been fairly "meh" about RAGE so far, but the latest RPS preview has certainly piqued my interest.

[RepoMan]

Teiman is like a unique flower, getting peed on by grammar police.

[TurinTur]

If his native language isn't English, then his browser is probably not set to English and hence his spell checker will not correct English misspellings.

My native language isn't English, and my browser is also not in English, but the dictionary selection is customizable. I know because i use them.


What a jerk-ass way to correct his post.

Sorry, but it was hurting my eyes. I am Spanish like him, so usually i kind of gloss over some spelling mistakes and the incorrect grammar doesn't bother me as much as a real English speaker, but this time i ground my teeth. tryiiing??? communite?

But I truly quoted it because i considered pretty funny, how in the very message he wrote to answer Warren comment about language butchering he goes and butcher it harder than in the original message XD XD. One would think that a person in his position would have defended himself with a very careful written message as to look like he is right and the butchering is something occasional and rare, the expected from someone not english-native.

If it's some consolation, my spoken English is awful.

[Teiman]

I don't want not to hurt your eyes.

Can we stop with offtopic messages?

[WarrenM]

"Off topic"

[RepoMan]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060208104148/uncyclopedia/images/8/88/Thanks-for-nothing.jpg

[TurinTur]

New trailer, Gearhead Vault
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxaaNosNa_Q

[JoshV]

Saw Rage at PAX, looks great on the consoles, the framerate is nice and smooth. Didn't feel like standing in line to play it though.

[Jason McCullough]

I'm really confused - the previews say it's a real game and not just a tech demo?

[Adree]

I'm really confused - the previews say it's a real game and not just a tech demo?

That must mean it's ugly.

[TurinTur]

I'm really confused - the previews say it's a real game and not just a tech demo?

They are lying, run away, don't fall in their trap!

Also, it's ugly.

[TurinTur]

Rage novel out! (http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/08/30/read-the-new-rage-novel/)

What, aren't you going to buy it?
Me neither.


The sentence above the title bothers me. "Based on the critically acclaimed game"?? The game isn't even out and they are already using taglines like that?

[WarrenM]

Which goes to show how meaningless that sort of thing is. It's like when 15 games come out with GOTY editions because someone, somewhere, awarded it to them.

[TurinTur]

Congrats, German gamers! You can finally play Doom 1 and Doom 2 (http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/08/31/doom-and-doom-ii-now-de-listed-in-germany/)! Only 18 years late to the party :P.

[Chris Nahr]

Censorship agencies, always topping the list of most useless government institutions.

Needless to say, everyone here played both Dooms soon after they were released...

[RepoMan]

The sentence above the title bothers me. "Based on the critically acclaimed game"?? The game isn't even out and they are already using taglines like that?

You can be critically acclaimed even before you ship. (http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/06/29/e3-best-game-critics-awards/) It is just a lot less meaningful. (I'm amused that the 3DS and Disney's Epic Mickey were both also lauded, despite their undeniable, eventual underwhelmingosity.)

[TurinTur]

OMG, they got the crazy russian guy to publicize the game. Genius!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxj2ORNTUKI&feature=youtu.be

And the game was also featured in Breaking Bad, which i understand is a popular series right now.

[Blips]

OMG, they got the crazy russian guy to publicize the game. Genius!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxj2ORNTUKI&feature=youtu.be

And the game was also featured in Breaking Bad, which i understand is a popular series right now.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why the hell did a 12 gauge and an AK cause "Bill" to explode?

[nKoan]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why the hell did a 12 gauge and an AK cause "Bill" to explode?

Because...

I dunno. Bill had a nitroglycerin burrito for lunch?

[Becoming]

Is common diet of mutant scumbag.

[belgerog]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why the hell did a 12 gauge and an AK cause "Bill" to explode?

There's probably some Tannerite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite) inside Bill. FPSRussia used it a few times before. I think the crossbow explosion is smaller than what you see and only triggered the Tannerite explosion.

[instant0]

FPSRussia has fallen in love with explosions, so much that he could be on Mythbusters.
But fun if the Rage folks actually decided to work with him for a little 'different' promo :)

[TurinTur]

Official pc system requirements


Minimum:

OS: Win XP SP3, Vista, Win 7

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo or Equivalent AMD

Memory: 2GB

Hard Disk Space: 25GB

Video Card: GeForce 8800, Radeon HD 4200



Recommended:

OS: Win XP SP3, Vista, Win 7

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad or Equivalent AMD

Memory: 4GB

Hard Disk Space: 25GB

Video Card: GeForce 9800 GTX, ATI Radeon HD 5550

The surprising part is the low requisites for the gpu. But hey, console development! :P

[RedHerb]

25 GB hard disk space. That's pretty big.

[Budvar]

Official pc system requirements



The surprising part is the low requisites for the gpu. But hey, console development! :P

I for one appreciate that fact that I've been able to game on my 3870 for a number of years

[TurinTur]

25 GB hard disk space. That's pretty big.

Yep, it's the "thing" with Megatextures. And even if 25GB is a lot in comparison with other games, it's the limiting factor in texture quality, it should really be 60GB so the game could have textures at more high resolution and without so much compression.

[Paul_cze]

At least it hopefully means constant 60fps at 1920*1200 for me.

[TurinTur]

Coop Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFQt5xd7puk&feature=player_embedded

[Sander 001]

Splitscreen on the PC?

[Rock8man]

Coop Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFQt5xd7puk&feature=player_embedded

Very cool.

Only tangentially related, but did anyone here play Doom 3 Co-op? I finished that damn game in single player, hoping the whole time that it would get better, but it never did. But when I tried the Xbox version in LAN coop, it was a revelation. The whole game was so much better. The flashlight/gun hard choice made so much more sense since one person could use the light while the other fired his weapon. It made for a much, much more interesting game than single player.

[Shellfishguy]

I enjoyed Doom 3 single player but yeah I can see how much better it would have been co-op. I don't think I even realized it had co-op back then lol.

[Rock8man]

I enjoyed Doom 3 single player but yeah I can see how much better it would have been co-op. I don't think I even realized it had co-op back then lol.

PC Version didn't. It was added by Vicarious Visions, the developers of the Xbox version. They also changed the lighting in the game quite drastically. Instead of every room being dark, only the occasional room was dark, which also changed the game for the better by a lot. Suddenly a dark room actually made us tense, with one person having to switch to the flash light.

[Shellfishguy]

Ahh that explains it then. Too bad though, I'd be tempted to see if anyone wanted to run through it.

[Sarkus]

PC Version didn't. It was added by Vicarious Visions, the developers of the Xbox version. They also changed the lighting in the game quite drastically. Instead of every room being dark, only the occasional room was dark, which also changed the game for the better by a lot. Suddenly a dark room actually made us tense, with one person having to switch to the flash light.

The XBox version was quite a bit different. It took out a lot of stuff that pushed even PCs, like big open rooms, and replaced them with smaller areas. I don't know what the final boss area ended up looking like, but I was surprised how much different the initial areas were on the XBox version so I assume that continued througout the XBox version.

[TurinTur]

Splitscreen on the PC?





@RAGEgame (http://twitter.com/#%21/RAGEgame) do we have coop on PC? [/URL]


[URL="http://twitter.com/#%21/bcsanches"]@bcsanches (http://twitter.com/#%21/bcsanches/status/111832904627269632) only online on PC

19 hours ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/RAGEgame/status/111860295269494785) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

:(

345

[RobotPants]

I can't imagine very many people play PC games in split screen. That would drive me mad.

[TurinTur]

It would be nice to have the option.

[Adree]

It would be nice to have the option.

Nobody would use it. Nobody sane at least.

[MattKeil]

Better they spend their time getting the game working well and co-op play smooth online rather than diverting resources to a feature 2-3% of the userbase would even notice was there, in my opinion.

[Paul_cze]

Nobody would use it. Nobody sane at least.

People that have HTPCs in their living room hooked up to 50" TVs could easily appreciate it while being sane.
Not many people have that setup though, probably.

[WarrenM]

Probably? :) I'd be willing to wager almost nobody has that setup.

[Paul_cze]

I have it and know personally 2 other people that have it..it is getting pretty popular (around here at least). Best of both worlds.

[WarrenM]

You and your circle of super nerdy friends is not really a good sample group. :P

[JM]

Who would expect super nerds to play computer games, eh? :)

[Telefrog]

I don't know any people with that setup, and I work at a company that has lunch time video game tournaments.

[Paul_cze]

You and your circle of super nerdy friends is not really a good sample group. :P

Yeah, because only super nerds own HTPCs.

[TurinTur]

I know two people with computers connected to HDTV in the living room.

Of course, i know a fair amount of computer geeks, most of them who work in IT.

[Tim James]

HTPC geeks don't necessarily correlate with videogame geeks and jocks.

Someone make a Venn diagram. I volunteer WarrenM.

[RobotPants]

No, from now on all we should post in this thread is anecdotal evidence of how many people we know/don't know with HTPCs. It'll be fun and informative! I know one person. Next!

[TurinTur]

It's Thursday. Like others Thursdays, it's Rage trailer day!

Today, the tv spot. Featuringe A perfect Circle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GooazR-tmG4

[IkeVandergraaf]

As awesome as that trailer looked, I don't think it showed anything new, did it?

[TurinTur]

Absolutely nothing new. I posted it for completeness sake.

[lordkosc]

GOLD!

http://cdnstatic.bethsoft.com/bethblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/FinalRAGEeric.jpg

http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/09/16/rage-is-ready/

[Sarkus]

GOLD!

;-)

Does this even matter any more? Sure, back when it meant the game was final and sent off to duplication and when games could miss their release dates, it was important to know. But now all it is is a paper statement since the devs still have two weeks to work on the "day one" patch anyway.

Gone gold used to mean something but not anymore.

[lordkosc]

its not even mentioned much anymore, so i figured it was worth the post :p

[instant0]

Gold, huzzah!

I see a games for Windows logo there... does that mean GFWL?

[Chris Nahr]

Thankfully not, that would show a "Live" after "Games for Windows".

[instant0]

Thankfully not, that would show a "Live" after "Games for Windows".

Thanks for allaying my fears. :-)

[nKoan]

They already confirmed steamworks too.

[lordkosc]

This fake box art would have resolved all these steam questions. My finest MS paint skills on display! :)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7540/ragewindowsbethesda.jpg

[farfrael]

Interested but still not sure whether to pre-order or not.
I am not interested in the extra items (probably balance breaking as usual) and the price reduction is not that material.

[TurinTur]

Official guide (240 pages, also on Steam)
http://www.amazon.com/Rage-Prima-Official-Game-Guide/dp/0307469999/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316104005&sr=8-1

Achivements list
http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/09/19/preview-the-official-rage-strategy-guide-and-achievements/

Another preview, nothing new, but just another journalist impressed with the game
http://mediakick.org/2011/09/18/preview-rage/22335

Confirmed Nightmare difficulty :D

[lordkosc]

Confirmed Nightmare difficulty :D

Shame on me for never playing an ID software game since Wolf3D, so is that considered, very very hard?

EASY > NORMAL > HARD > NIGHTMARE ?

[Sarkus]

This is a day one purchase for me, but I'm a bit concerned about the lack of interest. A week out and it's only #11 on Steam's ranking. Plus I was talking to a younger co-worker the other day about games and he's a big shooter fan. I mentioned that Rage was one of the titles I was looking forward too this fall. "Rage? What's that?" he asked. "The latest from Id, the guys behind the Doom games . . . " His quizzical look told me a lot of the kids have no real sense of who Id is or why they should care about their games.

[KiloOhm]

In his defense, they really haven't released anything worth a damn in a long time. I'm hoping this brings them back to former glory.

[lordkosc]

This is a day one purchase for me, but I'm a bit concerned about the lack of interest. A week out and it's only #11 on Steam's ranking. Plus I was talking to a younger co-worker the other day about games and he's a big shooter fan. I mentioned that Rage was one of the titles I was looking forward too this fall. "Rage? What's that?" he asked. "The latest from Id, the guys behind the Doom games . . . " His quizzical look told me a lot of the kids have no real sense of who Id is or why they should care about their games.

A lot of people I talk to are getting retail copies, 22GB + is a lot to download, and for most of my friends on 3Mb DSL, it would take 3-4 days.

[RepoMan]

Stands to reason, though -- almost a decade since your last big game will kind of put you on the back burner. If it comes out and does 90+ reviews, it will get plenty of attention.

[lordkosc]

I wonder how many kids even know who John Goodman is, lol.

Time to break out the dvd of King Ralph and The Babe. :D

[Angrycoder]

Shame on me for never playing an ID software game since Wolf3D, so is that considered, very very hard?

EASY > NORMAL > HARD > NIGHTMARE ?

Nightmare difficulty = respawning enemies.

[lordkosc]

Yeah , I'm never trying that. :)

[TurinTur]

Nightmare difficulty = respawning enemies.


Yeah , I'm never trying that. :)

That was in Doom, but for example not in Quake.
It just means the hardest difficulty, but we don't know how it will implemented in Rage.

[instant0]

Hardest difficulty in Duke3D had respawning enemies.. unless you blew up the corpses. Quite a novel idea for the gameplay and made for great fun when playing it 4-player coop. 2 guys shooting, 2 guys blowing up corpses.

The game looks fun, although I hear bad things about the amount of coop gameplay in it.

[RobotPants]

What bad things?

[pg]

This is a day one purchase for me, but I'm a bit concerned about the lack of interest.

Doesn't surprise me. I'm a huge fan of id's earlier work but I haven't bought anything of their's since Q3.

[Major Malphunktion]

Nightmare in Doom Co-op was amazing...you could crash the game on the first level if you hung around too long. Knee deep in the dead indeed.

[TurinTur]

What bad things?

I suppose he refers to the fact the full game can't be played in coop.

[DeepT]

That is bad. However if they have a separate co-campaign that would be acceptable. If co-op is a few disassociated missions, then that is bad.

[lordkosc]

I recall reading , co-op deals with the main story being fleshed out more, but being looked at from an outside perspective.

[MSUSteve]

Is there any reason to get this game for consoles if you have a PC that can run it? The only thing that concerns me is the racing. A 360 controller is (for me) a much better control method for driving a car than are a mouse and keyboard.

[Telefrog]

From everything I can see about RAGE, if you have a PC that can run it, you should choose that option over the console. You can use a 360 controller with the PC version if driving control is your concern.

On the other hand, I'm sure many people have PC hardware that may not give them the smoothest RAGE experience. From what I saw at PAX, the fps was rock-solid on the 360.

[Tim James]

Did we ever figure out if most enthusiast PCs will be able to max the game out? I know the PC version has better textures and they're using some sort of auto balancing image quality system to maintain 60 fps. I don't remember if there's going to be a lot of untapped graphics features that most PCs can't handle right now.

[TurinTur]

Did we ever figure out if most enthusiast PCs will be able to max the game out?


Given the incredible low requisites, i think i will move the game at 100 fps, so yes.


I know the PC version has better textures

I don't think so. In the pc version they will use the same 3 dvds of content as the 360 version. They sure as hell haven't said "we will have better textures in the pc!"


I don't remember if there's going to be a lot of untapped graphics features that most PCs can't handle right now.

No, they said the three version would be very similar, and maybe in the pc version they would add some better graphical ompph where they can in the last three weeks. Also maybe, in the future the could release some extra features for the pc version, in the post release support.

[TurinTur]

Is there any reason to get this game for consoles if you have a PC that can run it?

Hey, i ask that question with almost every multi platform game! :P :P


The only thing that concerns me is the racing. A 360 controller is (for me) a much better control method for driving a car than are a mouse and keyboard.

I would agree with you... if this was Gran Turism or Forza or something like that. From what i have heard, the racing part will be very arcade, so i suspect it will be fine with just keyboard, as it was in Flatout or in NFS Hot Pursuit. Still, i suppose the 360 pad (which you still can use in the pc) will have the edge over keyboard.

[MSUSteve]

Cool. If I get the game, I'll probably go with the PC version. I wish GMG had it available so I could get it for something less than $60. Without any real preorder incentive, I'm still waiting for reviews before biting on it.

[Tim James]

No, they said the three version would be very similar, and maybe in the pc version they would add some better graphical ompph where they can in the last three weeks. Also maybe, in the future the could release some extra features for the pc version, in the post release support.Ok that's the answer I was looking for. I must've been mistaken about the textures.


Cool. If I get the game, I'll probably go with the PC version. I wish GMG had it available so I could get it for something less than $60. Without any real preorder incentive, I'm still waiting for reviews before biting on it.You can try to get it during a Direct2Drive 20% off sale. I think I got it for $55 - 20% off, around $44. That's not a super bargain but I'm still in the mood to buy games with nice graphics after my recent PC upgrade.

They might've just been running those during the summer doldrums. I don't think it's likely in the next 2 weeks.

[MSUSteve]

Yeah, I don't see any 20% coupon codes going for D2D right now. Will keep an eye out.

[TurinTur]

Ok that's the answer I was looking for. I must've been mistaken about the textures.

John Carmack, being very honest, warned in the QCon that Rage have two flaws right now:
-if you turn around fast, you can the textures streaming, first you see the low quality version, after it load the good version. We are talking of 0.1 secs, but the effects is there.
-If you get close (like putting the camera just in front of a wall) you can see the texture compression/resolution is low, compared to other games. Why?

Because the storage limit. The real uncompressed Megatexture of the full game is said to be 1TB. Textures (images) compress pretty well, so it's easy to lower it to let's say... 150GB. Different advanced technique (dynamic level of compression depending of the area, advanced compression formats) compress it even more... but to reach the actual file size (21-22 GB) is needed to apply a very agressive lossy compression ratio. Think the difference between a 100 MB video file and a 200 MB video file, of the same duration and resolution. More MB per second means more quality. It's the same principle here.

What John Carmack said in the last Quakecon was that maybe later they would make something like releasing a single level with less compression ratio in the Megatexture of that level so people could really see the "real" and more detailed graphics done by their artists.

I really thought "noooo Carmack you stupid!! i don't want a stupid single level with good detail, i want the full game with good detail!. Do the same, but with the full game! Just put a 70GB torrent seeded by a few datacenters with the file."
I am still crossing my fingers.

[Tim James]

Yeah that must be what I'm remembering. I won't get my hopes up for that texture pack.

I was also wondering to myself whether to install this to my SSD since it's so large. Then I remembered it's Steamworks so I'll just use SteamMover to put it there temporarily.

[TurinTur]

There is a short interview in Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6335872/rage-qanda-with-matt-hooper-and-jason-kim)

Nothing new, but they mention the length of the game:


MH: Our goal is to create a lengthy campaign, probably about 15 hours. But for a shooter, that time count is significant because most shooters are eight hours or less. If you do the game's side quests, that adds up to 20 to 25 hours. We put a lot of focus for this significant amount of game alongside the co-op and vehicles. Online components like Combat Rally and Legends of the Wasteland would be a good match for the Rage world. We still care a lot about deathmatch and on-foot combat as a studio, but that kind of sticks to Doom, Quake, and those franchises.

Of course, if they say 20 to 25 hours, it really means 17-22 hours :P.

[TurinTur]

One week for the release. It's... prediction time!

I predict the game will be much more classic id than some people may think of. Yes, there will be towns with npcs, trade, a bit of crafting, races with cars, and all that new stuff. But i think people will be surprised how old school will be the game: the enemy rooster is mutants, bandits, soldiers, even cybernetic (spoiler?) monsters, which is classical id, the weapons will have the pistol, the double barrel shotgun, the rocket launcher, a minigun, a BFG, etc, again very id, and the combat itself will be a bit faster than the trailers have shown. The enemies will move a lot and they won't die with just a bullet to the head, all that reinforces the impression of old school id games.


I predict people will compare to... Half Life 2 / Ep 2. People have compared it strongly with Borderlands, also with Fallout 3 because the setting, even it seems to have a bit of Bioshock, but when people play they may start the comparisons with the Valve shooters. Let's remember the HalfLife games also feel kind of old school compared to other newer fps (not even ironsights!), both HL2 and HL2 Ep2 had a fair share of vehicular action, and they both put attention in doing a varied fps exeprience, which also seemed a strong part in the development in Rage (they learnt from Doom 3). Both are games where you join the Resistance group against the government / authority. You can even use in both a deployable or usable turret for defensive purposes.


I predict it will be a very good game :), but the story will suck incredibly (another thing will be the incidental world building and npc chatter, that will be acceptable). Some reviews may ding it a bit for that. There will be a sizable part of the gaming community, essentially the CoD/BF young crowd who learned fps in the new consoles, that won't enjoy the 'arcade' feeling of the combat.


I predict the graphics will be very good, taking in account the 60fps, but lots of people will prefer the better graphics of other titles, even if said titles barely maintain 30 fps. I predict the graphics will be good, but more from pure graphical tech power, from the artists work. There will be a ton of very good craftsmanship, even if that craftsmanship is used for brown wasteland, gray cities and sewer levels.

[Tim James]

I'm trying to be realistic. I predict it'll turn out like most singleplayer shooters for me: I'll really like it but it won't be deep enough to excite me. That's a me thing. I've said before that I gobble shooters up constantly but I don't personally rate them as high (on average) as strategy, RPG, and sims.

[TurinTur]

Heh, i am excited because it seems a game that it will bring me back to the golden age of the 90s shooters (better than the scripted cinematic campaign of nowadays) while still reaching out the new sensibilities and lessons of modern fps, like a more varied experience, rpg touches, a more refined AI, etc.

From a historic perspective, id had the dilemma of what to do after Doom 3. Go on with their old style even it's considered dated now by lots of people, or "selling out" and doing another scripted linear shootfest with marines. I think they chose the right way, doing something with both old and new sensibilities and doing also going out a bit of tangent with the racing part to avoid doing more of the same.

[Quitch]

Let's remember the HalfLife games also feel kind of old school compared to other newer fps (not even ironsights!)

Iron sights in games suck donkey balls and until someone figures out how to do them so they actually help me aim instead of blocking my sight, games need to stop friggin' using the 'feature'.


Heh, i am excited because it seems a game that it will bring me back to the golden age of the 90s shooters (better than the scripted cinematic campaign of nowadays) while still reaching out the new sensibilities and lessons of modern fps, like a more varied experience, rpg touches, a more refined AI, etc.

The 90s was filled with shitty Doom and Quake clones so... WTF? God bless Half-Life and the revolution it spawned!

[Tim James]

I don't know. Maybe Doom 4 will have the arcade gameplay you're talking about. We'll have to see about Rage. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised, but at least I'll have another new pretty game to look at.

[TurinTur]

The 90s was filled with shitty Doom and Quake clones so... WTF? God bless Half-Life and the revolution it spawned!

The 90s also had Half Life ;)

[Quitch]

And the 00s had a lot more games like that than the 90s.

[Major Malphunktion]

I predict:
Awesome.

[MattKeil]

Heh, i am excited because it seems a game that it will bring me back to the golden age of the 90s shooters (better than the scripted cinematic campaign of nowadays)

I will never understand this. I'll take a hundred cinematic FPSes if it means I never have to wander through another badly designed maze to find another red keycard. Shooters in the '90s were anything but a Golden Age, they were an embryo.

[Zylon]

90's shooters were about the journey, not the destination. I dare say the pendulum has tended to swing excessively in the other direction since then.

[Tim James]

It's not the keys, Matt. It's the shooting. I still play Doom. I don't want all shooters to return to that arcade style, but one modern take on it won't hurt anyone.

[TurinTur]

And the 00s had a lot more games like that than the 90s.

I will concede a bit. It's a bit weird to say the golden age was the 90s, because the fps genre started near the middle of that decade. So... the golden age was 1994-2004.

Happy now? :)


I will never understand this. I'll take a hundred cinematic FPSes if it means I never have to wander through another badly designed maze to find another red keycard. Shooters in the '90s were anything but a Golden Age, they were an embryo.

Dunno, i still see the same basic motivation when i play modern fps. Before it was advancing and killing monsters to take the red key and finish the level, now it's advancing and killing soldiers because i have to follow an invulnerable npc because the theory says i am a soldier in a war (lol) and i am suppose to follow orders. In the end i move and kill, linear level after linear level.
Why should i play FPS? Because the story? God only 1 in 20 fps have a decent story. And even those with a good story have problems to tie back with the gameplay and the motivation of why the hell are you walking forward and killing everything you see. Most of times you suspend belief: it's an action videogame.

[Tim James]

Before it was advancing and killing monsters to take the red key and finish the levelDoom was like this. It was almost always straightforward. But you're forgetting the games with really bad level design. That's when you have to hunt for the key or the way to proceed. I don't think any of us want to go back to that. I prefer either one-way corridors (preferrably wide ones) or completely wide open.

This is separate (to me anyway) from the shooting gameplay I'd like to see in at least one modern game. Maybe it's already out there. I haven't played Hard Reset, for example.

[MSUSteve]

Anyone know when the review embargo (if any) is up on this game?

[TurinTur]

Doom was like this. It was almost always straightforward. But you're forgetting the games with really bad level design. That's when you have to hunt for the key or the way to proceed.

Uhh... i loved that part of fps, if it's well done and well adjusted in difficulty and time of the experience.

[Pogo]

Iron sights in games suck donkey balls and until someone figures out how to do them so they actually help me aim instead of blocking my sight, games need to stop friggin' using the 'feature'.

Spoken like a man who's never held a gun before.

Iron sights are supposed to block your site. That's why you identify what you want to shoot at before putting it under the sight and pulling the trigger.

I can understand what you don't like about that, of course.

[Tim James]

Uhh... i loved that part of fps, if it's well done and well adjusted in difficulty and time of the experience.Well that's fine. Now I know we're on a slightly different page.

[Major Malphunktion]

90's shooters were about the journey, not the destination. I dare say the pendulum has tended to swing excessively in the other direction since then.

Oh so true. I still play all my old shooters. I can't stand the current hyper realism one giant corridor bullshit that passes for a shooter these days.

and get off my lawn.

[Zylon]

Iron sights are supposed to block your site.
No, they're supposed to improve your aim. Restricting your vision is a side-effect that game makers make a point of including so that players don't just constantly run around in iron-sights mode.

[Jason McCullough]

1990s games had arcadey goal-driven mechanics like this, 2000s games had narrative grunty marine goal-driven mechanics like that

[Pogo]

No, they're supposed to improve your aim. Restricting your vision is a side-effect that game makers make a point of including so that players don't just constantly run around in iron-sights mode.

What?

Video games have the advantage of not tiring your arm muscles and straining your eyesight from the focus it takes to actually use iron sights in real life.

Not every gun can have iron sites that consist of a ring that you can easily see your target through... restricted vision is a symptom of the specific gun, not developer intent.

[RobotPants]

Restricted vision is exactly the point of gun sights. Of course, video games don't do a perfect job of simulating the effect, but there are a few that come damn close.

[Coca Cola Zero]

The biggest problem with "iron sights" in a game as opposed to reality is you've only got one perspective view of the current scene in a game, whereas you have two in reality. Because of this games trying to simulate iron sight usage too closely actually do hamper you in ways that you wouldn't be hampered in real life (unless you're a cyclops).

[Pogo]

I forgot which game it was that used a Depth of Field effect to simulate how blurry the iron sights get while you're focusing on your target. That was a good compromise of realism and playability.

[DrDel]

is it just me or is Rage much like Borderlands?

even though id had allegedly started development of Rage prior to Borderlands, Borderlands has stolen Rage's thunder.... I am realizing this after watching a number of Rage gameplay videos.

[Becoming]

I expect Rage to have much better gunplay and it doesn't operate on the loot pinata enemies theory. Also more impressive set pieces and characters that are more than just goofy caricatures there for comedy.

Not that Borderlands is bad, but I really don't get the idea that Rage is at all like it whatsoever. At the most shallow screenshot level maybe, beyond that not so much.

[Enidigm]

So... am i getting this game? I'm completely baffled by what Rage is, it seems like there is very little information on it that has... information.

Is it Fallout 3 with Quake-era run and gun? Is it an action RPG? A story driven Bad Company esque shooter? Something like Red Faction No. 2?

[Zylon]

Restricted vision is exactly the point of gun sights.
Huh, and here crazy me thought they were for aiming.

[RobotPants]

You are aware of just how they accomplish such a task, no?

[DrDel]

So... am i getting this game? I'm completely baffled by what Rage is, it seems like there is very little information on it that has... information.

Is it Fallout 3 with Quake-era run and gun? Is it an action RPG? A story driven Bad Company esque shooter? Something like Red Faction No. 2?

It's Borderlands 2. Watch the Youtube gameplay videos.


Poor id software. They were once so good. They stayed small and other companies (Valve) overcame them with size and innovation. Really sad.

[RepoMan]

Jesus, you say Borderlands 2 like it's a bad thing. Which is fucking crazy talk. I think Rage will be one part Borderlands, one part Fallout 3, and one part Doom 3. Which sounds perfectly awesome to me, thanks very much.

[TurinTur]

So... am i getting this game? I'm completely baffled by what Rage is, it seems like there is very little information on it that has... information.

Is it Fallout 3 with Quake-era run and gun? Is it an action RPG? A story driven Bad Company esque shooter? Something like Red Faction No. 2?

Borderlands with better combat and more developed vehicle combat/racing side (but without the random weapons), in the Fallout 3 setting, with a pinch of Bioshock mechanics (different types of ammo, a bit of looting and using the parts to make doodads), and a touch of Quake and Half-Life.


It's curious the amount of times i read this question. People complain when they made always the same games, corridor pure fps. Now they make something different, and i read people saying "meh, Rage, i don't know... what type of game is supposed to be, in first place?".

[Sarkus]

I'm just hoping it has a better story then Borderlands - that part of the game was weak.

[TurinTur]

I would like for a better story than Borderlands, but i don't hope for.
But thinking it more, Borderlands story was so bad that even if Rage plot will be as trite as i imagine, it can be still better than Borderlands :P.


BTW, any news about preload in Steam?

[Zylon]

You are aware of just how they accomplish such a task, no?
This is like saying that the point of a remote control is to consume batteries.

The point of iron sights is to aid the operator in precisely aligning the barrel of the weapon with the intended target. Restricting vision is a side-effect. Many games exaggerate this side-effect for gameplay balance.

I like the compromise used as for example in Fallout 3, where you can go into a somewhat zoomed, more precise aiming mode, but not literally staring down the barrel.

[WarrenM]

It's Borderlands 2. Watch the Youtube gameplay videos.


Poor id software. They were once so good. They stayed small and other companies (Valve) overcame them with size and innovation. Really sad.
id is anything but small. I think Carmack said they had 200 employees at QuakeCon.

[dermot]

id is anything but small. I think Carmack said they had 200 employees at QuakeCon.
Yeah, I wouldn't shed too many tears for id. Their games mightn't sell as well as they used to but I'd be willing to bet they shift enough copies to keep themselves going. I'd guess the licensing business has fallen off a cliff though.

[MSUSteve]

Not sure that anyone cares, but I saw over at TeamXbox that the review embargo is midnight between October 3rd and October 4th.

[Major Malphunktion]

Yeah, I wouldn't shed too many tears for id. Their games mightn't sell as well as they used to but I'd be willing to bet they shift enough copies to keep themselves going. I'd guess the licensing business has fallen off a cliff though.

Unless Id tech 5 looks 'that good' on the consoles...and from what I've seen the texture tech alone is pretty amazing.

[Major Malphunktion]

So... am i getting this game? I'm completely baffled by what Rage is, it seems like there is very little information on it that has... information.

Is it Fallout 3 with Quake-era run and gun? Is it an action RPG? A story driven Bad Company esque shooter? Something like Red Faction No. 2?

Hate to say it, but there is only one game developer I buy sight unseen, and that is id. Yes still. One meh game out of the whole library is a good track record for me.

[Tim James]

Carmack clearly said he's happy to be out of the licensing business. If a third party really wants id Tech 5 I'm sure they can arrange something. Maybe Bethesda will start pushing it.

[TurinTur]

They commented that Bethesda said to use the engine only for Bethesda published games. So they are not pushing it a lot. Being honest, they came too late in the generation to the licensing engines game.

Some comments from Carmack pointed to two third party games using id Tech 5 are in the works.

[instant0]

I would imagine their tools a lot less polished than the toolset for Unreal which would make licensing less appealing. Course, there is always the $$.

[marxeil]

Spoken like a man who's never held a gun before.

Iron sights are supposed to block your site. That's why you identify what you want to shoot at before putting it under the sight and pulling the trigger.

I can understand what you don't like about that, of course.

Iron sight are used to enable shotting and actually hitting targets that aren't immediately in front of you.
Also they don't block your view other then having a large piece of metal and plastic near one of your eyes. The other eye is free to see anything.

[anaqer]

In perfect focus, no doubt.

[TurinTur]

Uh... let's remember than in games you (usually) have a crosshair in normal mode so you still can aim and fire with a fair degree of accuracy, using only the ironsights when you need precision at medium/long range.

[Enidigm]

No it's an honest question; I don't play "shooters" so I don't really know what to compare it to. I've played TF2 religiously for a long time, I like Bad Company 2 online but I haven't played it in months, and I'll fire up UT 2004 on the PS3 once in a blue moon.

So... What is Rage? I've never played Borderlands. I guess what i'm asking is what is the game and mission structure? Far Cry 2?Just Cause 2? Fallout 3? I just feel like I have no idea at all about "what Rage is".

[Zylon]

It's Doom with cars.

[TurinTur]

So... What is Rage? I've never played Borderlands. I guess what i'm asking is what is the game and mission structure? Far Cry 2?Just Cause 2? Fallout 3? I just feel like I have no idea at all about "what Rage is".

As I imagine it:

Have you played Stalker, then? I suppose it's also a bit like that.
I think you could call it "Hub like structure". There is a hub, a central town in each general region (there are two of them, one per dvd if you play in 360), and there you accept a quest from a npc or from a notice board (witcher 2 style) or whatever to "stop the evil bandits attacking the depot!". I suppose there will be a few quests given outside the towns, but mainly the missions will come from there.
So you get out of town, travel a bit of wasteland in your buggy, maybe having a combat or two in the way, and reach the depot. You enter (loading Depot level here...), play a more normal fps experience, do the objective, and return to the town in your vehicle, having maybe another round of vehicle combat, perhaps stopping in some point where you see a small cave to explore by foot and take the secret loot from there. You sell and buy weapons and ammo, sell the loot, perhaps upgrade a weapon, talk some lines with a few npcs, play a minigame or two in the bar, play the collectible card game (!), and for finishing the quest you maybe recieve a new crafting recipe as a reward. You can participate in organized races in the towns (i think there will be time trials and armed races), winning certificates that are exchangeable in the mechanic shop to upgrade or buy new cars. Maybe with your upgraded car you may explore a previously too hard zone and do the quest from that area.
There will be both "main" quests and side quests. The combat will be in all these quests, and also a bit in the way of reaching the specific area. The two towns and the specific locations of the "important" quests will be separate levels, needing loading.



The game won't be as big and open as Just Cause 2, nor the freedom to explore and move at your pace like in Fallout 3, living your own adventures. So when people call Rage open... they say it in comparison with Doom or Quake.

[Pogo]

Iron sight are used to enable shotting and actually hitting targets that aren't immediately in front of you.
Also they don't block your view other then having a large piece of metal and plastic near one of your eyes. The other eye is free to see anything.

Again I have to question whether some of you guys have ever even held a toy gun before.

[Sarkus]

I probably missed it earlier in the thread, but there is a Rage tie-in book that was released a month or so ago and the first 50 pages are here (http://www.rage.com/us/rage-novel) on the official site. Does appear to contain spoilers, though. The Amazon reviews for the book are pretty good, though there aren't very many.

[TurinTur]

Ign have a new video, about the weapons and stuff
http://uk.ign.com/videos/2011/09/27/rage-weapon-upgrading?objectid=926419&show=HD

At least this time the guy playing wasn't a complete noob with the controls!

Some nice stuff:
-There is a bit of variety even in the members of the same bandit clan, like some guy have a fire torch, another throw axes, etc.
-Enemy AI seems pretty aggressive. Just how i like it :)
-"Regenerative infusion" recipe, to increase the health regen. for 90 secs
-"Grenade launcher" type of ammo for the shotgun

[Guido Jones]

Again I have to question whether some of you guys have ever even held a toy gun before.

I decided against asking earlier, but for you iron sight haters - have you ever actually shot a rifle before?

[Harkonis]

In perfect focus, no doubt.

I think this is where a lot of modern games fail. They LOVE to use depth of field to blur what you aren't directly looking at, but at times that just isn't realistic or doesn't work. If I'm looking down the sights I can easily shift my focus without lowering the sights to glance around and you can't in 99% of games. You raise iron sights, you cant' see shit other than your target.

[Harkonis]

I decided against asking earlier, but for you iron sight haters - have you ever actually shot a rifle before?

yes, and I still dislike the implementation of iron sights in a lot of games. (though I hate their absence even more)

[RobotPants]

I think this is where a lot of modern games fail. They LOVE to use depth of field to blur what you aren't directly looking at, but at times that just isn't realistic or doesn't work. If I'm looking down the sights I can easily shift my focus without lowering the sights to glance around and you can't in 99% of games. You raise iron sights, you cant' see shit other than your target.

Yes, this drives me bonkers in most games with any sort of DoF blurring effect. It's trying to simulate something your eyes are already doing, which seems like a weird concept in general.

[TurinTur]

Gamefaqs dude (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/942657-rage/60448168) have already the game, 360 version

Some excerpts, so you don't have to delve in that dirty pit which is gamefaqs :P :



Its sweet.

you should DEFINITELY install.

also has Anarchy codes in case and Wastelands Sewer Missions.

Anarchy was already on disk. Sewer Missions was a 200+ mb download.

comes with a Skyrim and Prey 2 preorder now promotion thing.

ok im gonna tell you right now to be prepared to now be OVERWHELMED by the graphics. ...but the texture pop in is VERY noticeable. im seeing them loading constantly.

im playing on a 32 inch LED tv and it looks really good still. didnt blow me away like when i first saw Uncharted 2 though.

OK to get this out of the way, the game is SWEET

But it is just....a BLAST to play this game lol. It's almost like you are pulling off combos when you get into fights and you start mixing up shooting and using the wingstick. OMG THE WINGSTICK. The thing is so CHEAP but its a good cheap cuz they throw plenty of enemies at you

They give you a well rounded supply of weapons very quickly in this game. Once i got my pistol i already had my double barrel shotgun in my inventory [Here he is slightly mistaken, the double barrel shotgun appeared in his inventory because it comes from the Anarch Edition code]. Wingsticks are also aquired early.

someone made a post saying something like the pop in can be seen when turning very fast and that is COMPLETELY true and yes i have both disc 1 and 2 installed already it was the first thing i did b4 playing the game

the AI is good and bad. the acrobatic bandits and hard as piss to hit when they start flipping n stuff, but this other gang of people i have run into (have a red white and blue patriotic kind of thing going on) sit there with their heads out ALOT.

on normal a headshot only knocks people on their ass. sometimes u get a kill but i think it happens mostly while sneaking. u sneak by crouching by the way

...but then they will crawl into cover and sometimes even get up but very slowly. when you shoot somebody tho they do react to where they were shot but they will not react to being shot in another place

one example of a combo i was talking about earlier...run in, shoot guy on right with combat shotgun then wingstick other guy, shoot even another guy with shotgun from far and stun him while he's running wingstick him and he will fall limp into you and you grab the wingstick from his body out while he is falling....omg it is soooo SATISFYING.

U get to a part where u need 2 change clothes and u get to pick from 4 different outfits. 3 have different individual perks. The anarchy edition armor has all 3 perks combined into it. That's pretty much the only customization I seen characterwise. U can upgrade ur armor light medium etc. And u can upgrade weapons too. Buggys can be customized as well and can be upgraded.

[Pogo]

I'll save others the time... that's not worth reading at all.

[Telefrog]

IRL, sighting gains you a ton of accuracy at the cost of a lot more arm fatigue and loss of peripheral vision. The problem with iron sights as they are implemented in most games is that so called "hip fire" isn't really much different. Your firearm is still taking up part of your screen and the aim is still towards the center. Games get the increased accuracy part right for sighting, but since your field of view largely remains the same, they have to simulate the loss of peripheral vision by zooming in a bit and by slowing your movement. (Watch professionals traverse in combat with cheek-to-stock sighting and you'll see how silly this is.) The arm fatigue part of the equation almost always gets ignored, although I have seen some games do stuff like making your aim waver if you stay scoped for too long.

People like iron sights in game because they think it's more realistic. The reality is that it's no more realistic than running around with your gun held in your hand straight out in front of you.

[lordkosc]

I wonder if there would be texture pop-in on a SSD.

[Zylon]

People like iron sights in game because they think it's more realistic.
Who are these people? I like having iron sights in games because it adds useful, scope-like functionality to the guns.

Maybe I just haven't been playing enough terrible shooters.

[TurinTur]

I'll save others the time... that's not worth reading at all.

Well, yeah, it's not worth for specific data. And the sms style text is giving me a headache :P.

But it's worth looking at the gist of his opinion:
TL;DR: his impressions are very positive.

[KevinC]

Apologies for barging in to the thread, but from what I understand, Rage does have coop, but it's not coop through the main game? Just some silly stand-alone mission stuff, or am I mistaken?

[nKoan]

Apologies for barging in to the thread, but from what I understand, Rage does have coop, but it's not coop through the main game? Just some silly stand-alone mission stuff, or am I mistaken?

I think I read that the co-op will go through some of the same locations, but there will be changes made due to it being co-op. And not all of the locations will support co-op.

[lordkosc]

Apologies for barging in to the thread, but from what I understand, Rage does have coop, but it's not coop through the main game? Just some silly stand-alone mission stuff, or am I mistaken?

Correct, you play side missions that sorta follow along with the main story, but are a separate co-op based story.

[KevinC]

The structure is set up as a mission-by-mission basis though? So there's not really any world exploring in multiplayer?

[TurinTur]

The structure is set up as a mission-by-mission basis though? So there's not really any world exploring in multiplayer?

No exploring in multiplayer. It's like the coop in MW2, i believe: just a menu to select the mission.

[MattKeil]

Well, yeah, it's not worth for specific data. And the sms style text is giving me a headache :P.

But it's worth looking at the gist of his opinion:
TL;DR: his impressions are very positive.

Guy bragging on the internet about playing a game before everyone else says it's totally awesome. Well, that's all the proof I need.

[TurinTur]

Almost as much proof given by game journalists! :)

[MattKeil]

Didn't you used to sound less like Teiman?

[TurinTur]

It's in the morning here, i still have to drink my coffee.

[TurinTur]

Anarchy edition video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUp3VpVqcb4

I am not very happy with this system of putting part of the content depending of a code of the preorder.

[TurinTur]

And the last trailer, Jackal Canyon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSNtIeLxcMg

[Ben Sones]

The 90s was filled with shitty Doom and Quake clones so... WTF? God bless Half-Life and the revolution it spawned!

The 90s was filled with things like:

System Shock
Duke Nukem 3D
Starsiege: Tribes
Jedi Knight
Heretic/Hexen
Descent
Realms of the Haunting
Wheel of Time
Quarantine
Thief
Rainbow Six
and of course, Half-Life

Today we have:

1. Call of Duty clones
2. Bald space marine games

All right, I'm exaggerating. But not by much! You have a tough task ahead if you want to make an argument that there is more variety and innovation in shooters today than there was in the 90s. Developers today seem to have dialed in to a very small handful of formulas that have been successful, and mostly stick with those.

And even the DOOM clones were better than the majority of today's shooters. Personally, I'll take hunting for the red key card over scripted events in a linear, story-driven corridor any day of the week. I replayed DOOM recently, and it's amazing how well it holds up. Especially against modern shooters.

[Quitch]

It also spawned games like Corridor 7, so you're just suffering from your bias there. I mean, really, bald space marine games? Because Doom's lead was a deep guy? WTF?

And since when was Thief an FPS?

[Pogo]

It seems to me he was just trying to counter your dismissal of the fact that the 90s was a time when devs took the formula in very creative directions, something no FPS game bothers to do anymore.

And he's right, and you're wrong. But you were also wrong on iron sights too, so... stop squirming.

[Sarkus]

While "shooters" as a narrowly defined game type may not have evolved as much, that ignores the hybridization of gaming types we've been seeing. Games like Mass Effect 2 and the recent Fallout games may still be defined as RPGs, but they are are also adopting shooter game mechanics. As someone who has always preferred "story" shooters anyway, I'm just fine with this trend.

[Major Malphunktion]

It seems to me he was just trying to counter your dismissal of the fact that the 90s was a time when devs took the formula in very creative directions, something no FPS game bothers to do anymore.

And he's right, and you're wrong. But you were also wrong on iron sights too, so... stop squirming.

I like you Pogo.

And yes, Thief is a FPS. First Person Sneaker.

[WarrenM]

Is Left 4 Dead a COD clone or about bald space marines? What about TF2?

[TurinTur]

Thank god for Valve, indeed.

[WarrenM]

Those were off the top of my head. What about Deus Ex:HR? Bald space marines or COD clone? Discuss.

[madkevin]

Or Bioshock, for that matter.

[Zylon]

DXHR and Bioshock are both anomalous expressions of residual Looking Glass DNA.

[WarrenM]

Mirror's Edge. Bald space marines or COD clone?

[RobotPants]

Bald Space Marines really should be the official genre name. Someone get on that, please!

[Ben Sones]

Is Left 4 Dead a COD clone or about bald space marines? What about TF2?

I did say that I was exaggerating. You can add Portal 2 to the list, too (like Thief, Portal has its roots in the FPS genre). So obviously, there are contemporary games that buck the trend. But there's a lot of stuff that falls into either the WWII/modern warfare shooter or the generic sci-fi story shooter categories these days, and there was a lot of stuff in the 90s that didn't fall into the DOOM clone category. That's all I'm sayin'.

[Pogo]

Is Left 4 Dead a COD clone or about bald space marines? What about TF2?

I can see what you're getting at, but the fact that the 90s were a time when fresh formulas could emerge because technology finally let them come to fruition doesn't really change the reality that nearly all FPS games nowadays are playing re-create or catch-up.

Mirror's Edge is the most pertinent example of a fresh take on the genre, and before that I would have to say Escape from Butcher Bay tried something fresh with its melee combat.

[TurinTur]

Sigh, I suppose we won't have a on-topic discussion until next Tuesday...

[Marcin]

I had no idea this was out so soon until Jason X McMaster just posted to QT3's front page. Is there a consensus after 24 pages? Have we seen any non-canned, non-scripted gameplay videos yet? Quick google turns up little. :/

[WarrenM]

It's an id shooter set in a Fallout style world with Borderlands style graphics and a new technology that allows for unique detail everywhere. With vehicles! Shit, I'm in...

[Pogo]

Yeah I hear that. Seems like an apocalyptic mash-up of some of the best ideas that have been realized in the past several years. It doesn't have to be original, it just has to be fun.

[TurinTur]

I had no idea this was out so soon until Jason X McMaster just posted to QT3's front page. Is there a consensus after 24 pages? Have we seen any non-canned, non-scripted gameplay videos yet? Quick google turns up little. :/

Well, i would say ALL the videos are non-scritped. It's not exactly a heavily scripted game. Even putting together several videos you can count the scripted moments with one hand.

I already saw the first combat quest played in a live stream, it was in a derelict hotel taken by the ghost clan. It played exactly as the videos show, except with less variety because the player only had the pistol, lol XD. BTW, incredible the artistic level just in that first level, with impressive canyon vistas, abandoned large halls, a huge badass statue, etc.

[Theodore Rex DX]

I can see what you're getting at, but the fact that the 90s were a time when fresh formulas could emerge because technology finally let them come to fruition doesn't really change the reality that nearly all FPS games nowadays are playing re-create or catch-up.

Mirror's Edge is the most pertinent example of a fresh take on the genre, and before that I would have to say Escape from Butcher Bay tried something fresh with its melee combat.

Mirror's Edge is only barely a fresh take on the genre. 90s gave us stuff like Jumping Flash and Geograph Seal, which are sort of its spiritual predecessors. Even the efforts at motion-controlled aiming were anticipated by games like Operation Gunbuster. 90s stomps on the 10s. But how could it not? Actually, there are quite a few FPSers in the 80s that make the 90s look pretty dry as well. It's a continuum. Things are generally pretty homogenous now, despite WarrenM's insistence. Here are a few recent exceptions for his collection anyhow:
Love
http://youtu.be/rMX69Priad8
Zeno Clash
That minecraft-like game I can't remember the name of.

[Major Malphunktion]

And the last trailer, Jackal Canyon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSNtIeLxcMg

Sound design in this game is outstanding. Can't wait to hear it through my 7.1 system...

[RobotPants]

Don't ignore how much games now have refined the same formulas used in your golden 90s, though. Games back then innovated because they were the only ones around, but it doesn't automatically mean they were all good. People seem to vividly remember all the best games from back in the day and ignore the piles of shitty ones that surrounded them. And insisting that every FPS coming out now is homogenized is a tad nutty. We've still got great games mixed in with ungreat ones, just like it was in the 90s. The main difference now is simple how many more get made.

[Marcin]

Yeah, perhaps I meant "carefully edited for maximum presentation impact". The video equivalent of a bullshot, packed with things and situations and "emergence" that will never occur in the actual game.


It's an id shooter set in a Fallout style world with Borderlands style graphics and a new technology that allows for unique detail everywhere. With vehicles! Shit, I'm in...

Ok, so I guess nothing's happened to change that initial take on it, good. :)

[Quitch]

And yes, Thief is a FPS. First Person Sneaker.

In that case the rest of the list is wrong.