Monitor Follies....

[Woolen Horde]

Okay, need some advice guys.

Just got a job offer in anoter state, which means I'm gonna have to move (again). I own a 21-inch Viewsonic monitor which weighs about 70 pounds, and as much as I love it, the thought of having to lug this thing with me is just too much. Especially since it looks like I'm going to execute this move very barebones... just what I can carry in my car.

It's a Viewsonic P-815 model, with the built-in 4 USB ports in the base. I got it for around $900 new, and it's a couple years old. It's still in perfect condition. And I'm thinking of putting it for sale and getting a good, big LCD.

So, two questions...

1. What do you think a fair price would be?

2. What do you recommend for a good LCD? Requirements: Must be at least 17 inches. Has to have a good response rate (I like to play FPS and other "twitch" games).

And, maybe a third question...

3. Are you interested? :)

Thanks

[quatoria]

I'm pretty content with my 19' sony. Roughly the same viewing area as a 20-21' CRT, and very light. I haven't noticed any significant ghosting, but the flat screen takes some getting used to, particularly in games. Overall, however, I love it.

[Steve Canyon]

It's tough to sell a big monitor because without the original box, how are you going to ship it anywhere. So that leaves just local folks, which if someone in the area really needed a big 21" CRT, you might be in luck. The curved screens turn me off. I've had flat screens now for a few years, and now I can only use a flat screen comfortably.

If it's in perfect condition, I would think you could get around $200/250? I dunno. I never really considered a CRT that big. I'm not even sure what they go for these days brand new.

[Steve Canyon]

I'm pretty content with my 19' sony. Roughly the same viewing area as a 20-21' CRT, and very light. I haven't noticed any significant ghosting, but the flat screen takes some getting used to, particularly in games. Overall, however, I love it.

I love Sony monitors, especially the flat ones. I had a 15" flat screen Sony from 97-99. I gave it to my son and bought a 19" viewsonic. The viewsonic is ok, but the sony was really something. If I got another CRT, it would be a Sony.

[Mithix]

I was recently in the market for a 17" LCD, and after much research, I settled on the ViewSonic VP171b.

Great colors, 16ms refresh rate, 500:1 contrast ratio, two analog inputs and two digital inputs. It's also got this feature that will (with the software provided on the CD), rotate the picture 90 degrees if you rotate the monitor 90 degrees, giving you a sort of portrait view instead of landscape view. I guess that's cool if you're into it. I never use it.

I play Warcraft 3 and Halo on it mostly, though I have also fired up UT2k3 for a LAN game, and I noticed no ghosting or trailing whatsoever. The monitor's native resolution is 1280x1024, and WC3 (but not the shooters, interestingly enough) looks slightly blurry at 800x600, but perfectly crisp at 1024x768. As I said, the shooters look crisp at whatever resolution, including 640x480 for Halo (ugh). A more trained eye might be able to see some problems, but I cannot. The games look radiant. I highly recommend this monitor.

Manufacturer's site: http://www.viewsonic.com/products/lcd_vp171b.htm

[Woolen Horde]

I was recently in the market for a 17" LCD, and after much research, I settled on the ViewSonic VP171b.

Great colors, 16ms refresh rate, 500:1 contrast ratio, two analog inputs and two digital inputs. It's also got this feature that will (with the software provided on the CD), rotate the picture 90 degrees if you rotate the monitor 90 degrees, giving you a sort of portrait view instead of landscape view. I guess that's cool if you're into it. I never use it.

I play Warcraft 3 and Halo on it mostly, though I have also fired up UT2k3 for a LAN game, and I noticed no ghosting or trailing whatsoever. The monitor's native resolution is 1280x1024, and WC3 (but not the shooters, interestingly enough) looks slightly blurry at 800x600, but perfectly crisp at 1024x768. As I said, the shooters look crisp at whatever resolution, including 640x480 for Halo (ugh). A more trained eye might be able to see some problems, but I cannot. The games look radiant. I highly recommend this monitor.

Manufacturer's site: http://www.viewsonic.com/products/lcd_vp171b.htm

Where'd you get it and how much you pay?

[Woolen Horde]

Also, to all LCD owners out there, did your LCD come with dead pixels? And if so, how many?

[Chris Nahr]

Two on my old NEC MultiSync LCD 1810 display.

[NI]

One dead pixel on my Samsung SyncMaster 191T (19").

[Jason McCullough]

Zero.

Actually, that's not quite right: it came with one that would only occasionally get stuck on red. I followed random internet advice and squished it with my finger for a day or two whenever it appeared; now it's perfectly fine.

Biggum magic!

[DennyA]

Good luck selling the 21". As mentioned, unless you have the giant box somewhere, you'll need to sell local. I had an ad in the paper for mine for $100 (paid $1,000 in 1996) for two weeks, no takers. Gonna put it back in at $75...

On the LCD, check out the Samsungs before you buy Viewsonic. A bit thinner and the black models are IMHO better looking. (Viewsonic was my second choice.) I have a Samsung 191t and the only game I've notice ghosting in is the XIII demo. (But some others do see ghosting -- it's a personal sensitivity thing.)

[Woolen Horde]

Well, I live in Seattle's University District, so any local Qt3'er's interested?

Plus, a ton of hardware geeks who go to UW, so I may get lucky. Who knows?

I guess my major concern right now is the dead pixel thing. It almost seems intolerable to me that companies do not have a zero tolerance for this.

[Case]

Well, I live in Seattle's University District, so any local Qt3'er's interested?

Plus, a ton of hardware geeks who go to UW, so I may get lucky. Who knows?

I guess my major concern right now is the dead pixel thing. It almost seems intolerable to me that companies do not have a zero tolerance for this.

I've actually liked the Dell Ultrasharps, though older models seem to have issues with DVI compliance. But the image quality is amazing, though they still haven't quite hit sub 16ms response time yet.

[Mithix]

I was recently in the market for a 17" LCD, and after much research, I settled on the ViewSonic VP171b.

Great colors, 16ms refresh rate, 500:1 contrast ratio, two analog inputs and two digital inputs. It's also got this feature that will (with the software provided on the CD), rotate the picture 90 degrees if you rotate the monitor 90 degrees, giving you a sort of portrait view instead of landscape view. I guess that's cool if you're into it. I never use it.

I play Warcraft 3 and Halo on it mostly, though I have also fired up UT2k3 for a LAN game, and I noticed no ghosting or trailing whatsoever. The monitor's native resolution is 1280x1024, and WC3 (but not the shooters, interestingly enough) looks slightly blurry at 800x600, but perfectly crisp at 1024x768. As I said, the shooters look crisp at whatever resolution, including 640x480 for Halo (ugh). A more trained eye might be able to see some problems, but I cannot. The games look radiant. I highly recommend this monitor.

Manufacturer's site: http://www.viewsonic.com/products/lcd_vp171b.htm

Where'd you get it and how much you pay?
I got it at NewEgg for $529, although now it's going for $499 with free shipping. Some of the people I talked to got deals on this monitor at Dell.com, but there was some issue of whether or not they were actually buying refurbished monitors. I avoided the uncertainty and just spent the extra dough at NewEgg.

And no dead pixels so far. I've owned it for a month and a half or so.

[Chris Nahr]

I guess my major concern right now is the dead pixel thing. It almost seems intolerable to me that companies do not have a zero tolerance for this.

The manufacturing process does not allow for zero tolerance unless you're willing to pay $10,000 for an LCD display. I guess they're getting better but it's really not a big deal if 2 pixels out of 1280 x 1024 are dead -- you don't even notice unless you're looking for them.

[Desslock]

Well, I live in Seattle's University District, so any local Qt3'er's interested?

Plus, a ton of hardware geeks who go to UW, so I may get lucky. Who knows?

I guess my major concern right now is the dead pixel thing. It almost seems intolerable to me that companies do not have a zero tolerance for this.

I've actually liked the Dell Ultrasharps, though older models seem to have issues with DVI compliance. But the image quality is amazing, though they still haven't quite hit sub 16ms response time yet.

They haven't even hit 16ms yet, no?

[Brooski]

I've actually liked the Dell Ultrasharps, though older models seem to have issues with DVI compliance. But the image quality is amazing, though they still haven't quite hit sub 16ms response time yet.
I bought the 20.1" Dell Ultrasharp (to replace an old Nokia 19" CRT) a few weeks ago. The image quality is indeed amazing. Although I didn't buy it for gaming, I've still been pleased with the performance even in games like Halo and Jedi Academy.

[Guido Jones]

I wish I was interested, but I shelled out for a 19" Trinitron less then 8 months ago so I can't really justify getting another new monitor. Sorry.

[SpoofyChop]

I followed random internet advice and squished it with my finger for a day or two whenever it appeared; now it's perfectly fine.


You must have been tired after one or two days of sitting in front of your LCD waiting for that red pixel!

:D

[Case]

They haven't even hit 16ms yet, no?

Dell's been strongly hinting at something, but I haven't seen evidence of it yet. I'll know in about... 2-3 weeks?

[gdunbar]

Well, I live in Seattle's University District, so any local Qt3'er's interested?

Plus, a ton of hardware geeks who go to UW, so I may get lucky. Who knows?

I guess my major concern right now is the dead pixel thing. It almost seems intolerable to me that companies do not have a zero tolerance for this.

Find a friend who works at Microsoft and list it in the Micronews. As you can imagine there's a pretty good market for computer stuff there.

Geoff

[Aleck]

Also, to all LCD owners out there, did your LCD come with dead pixels? And if so, how many?

Bought a Dell 2000FP earlier this year, no dead pixels. Pretty happy with it even in twitch FPS games (which, given its 25ms response time, means that I'm getting old...)

Aleck

[Desslock]

They haven't even hit 16ms yet, no?

Dell's been strongly hinting at something, but I haven't seen evidence of it yet. I'll know in about... 2-3 weeks?

That'd be great -- I've definitely been on the verge of getting one of these for a while, so it's great to hear of promising developments.

[Nick Hyle]

I'm at the other end - I'm getting ready to upgrade, on the cheap, 'cause I'm poor.

So I'm looking for the best price on a half decent 19"+monitor, probably a bog-standard CRT. If I'm trying to cheap out but still want something that won't actually hurt to look at, what am I looking for, and what are the best places to look?

(Hell, maybe one of you guys will wind up shipping a monitor to Pennsylvania, but that's not going to be cheap to ship.)

[Toddy]

Has anyone got any experience with Sceptre? I had a 17" CRT of theirs a few years back and returned it because of, well, I don't know. I was getting headaches, for some reason. Otherwise, the quality seemed fine. Could never pick out what was wrong.

Anyhow, I'm looking for an LCD to go with my new system, and see Sceptre has a couple of models at Newegg with good customer reviews. I'm looking mostly at the Sceptre 19" X9g Komodo II going for $540. Not crazy about the stand, though for the price, I'll gladly do without swiveling the thing.

So, any of you hardware gurus have an opinion? This is pretty much what I'm looking for, in terms of features and price point.

[Mithix]

Has anyone got any experience with Sceptre? I had a 17" CRT of theirs a few years back and returned it because of, well, I don't know. I was getting headaches, for some reason. Otherwise, the quality seemed fine. Could never pick out what was wrong.
Low refresh rate?

[Toddy]

I'm dumb, but I'm not that dumb. ;-) Had problems even at 100. Nobody have any experience with Sceptre?

[Supertanker]

My work laptop is made by Sceptre. We bought them because our IT guys learned they were one of Dell's manufacturers. Don't know about their monitors, though.

[DennyA]

Dell's LCDs are Samsungs, though.

BTW, the "dead pixel" thing is no longer much of an issue. My Samsung 191T and my Dell 15" are both free of dead pixels.

Just buy from a place that allows returns with no restocking fee. Then if you do get a monitor with annoying pixels, you can return it and try again.

[Woolen Horde]

You like the Samsung 191t Denny?

I was looking at it at Best Buy. Nice, but it's $700 (with a $100 mail in rebate), plus sales tax. But I could get it on the net for $628, including shipping.

Here's another question. Those Apple LCD's look damn good. And the 17-inch one is only about $550. Anyone had any experience using those with a PC? As long as you have a DVI card, you're good to go, right?

[DennyA]

Yep, I'm very happy with the 191t. About the only games where I can even notice any ghosting are XIII and Counterstrike. And even then, it's pretty easy to tune out.

Swivel feature's kind of neat, too.

No dead pixels.

[Woolen Horde]

I got my Samsung 191t yesterday, and after 24 hours with it, I have come to the conclusion that IT IS THE SEXIEST PIECE OF COMPUTER EQUIPMENT I HAVE EVER OWNED.

Not a single dead pixel, either.

[Bub, Andrew]

Can you post a picture of it in, I dunno, a bathing suit or something?

[DavidCPA]

Can you post a picture of it in, I dunno, a bathing suit or something?

Just not in a wholesome wear bathing suit please :D

-DavidCPA

[Damien Falgoust]

Woolen: do you have the same experience as DennyA re: ghosting?

[Woolen Horde]

Woolen: do you have the same experience as DennyA re: ghosting?

Well, keep in mind that so far all I've been able to play is Halo at 1024x768, but if there's any ghosting going on, it's minimal. I haven't seen it, and the carnage has been flying.

This is one sweeeeet display. And with a DVI connection, it's sharp, vivid, bright, and solid.

[Woolen Horde]

Okay, played around a lot more with the display yesterday.

Watched a couple DVD movies, and saw no ghosting.

Played Americas Army at 1024x768 with Quincunx AA turned out, and saw very subtle ghosting. But in a way, it was cool, cause it actually looked like motion blur. But the ghosting wasn't dramatic or anything. It just barely flickered on the edge of perception.

No ghosting seen in Raven Shield.

[Mark Bussman]

Yep, I'm very happy with the 191t. About the only games where I can even notice any ghosting are XIII and Counterstrike. And even then, it's pretty easy to tune out.

Swivel feature's kind of neat, too.

No dead pixels.


How about IL-2/FB Denny? My monitor just died on me this afternoon, so I'm definitely in the market for a new one. $600-700 is a lot of money though... Desk space isn't a big issue for me, as I bought a huge desk when we moved to a new apartment, so I'm still considering a CRT. I definitely want to upgrade to a 19" monitor though.

[Woolen Horde]

Can't speak for flight sims, though I want to try LOMAC on it.

Newegg has the 191t for $630, with a $30 instant rebate, with free shiping. and if you're not in California, no sales tax. And sometimes they bump it up to $40 instant free rebate, so $590 total is not so bad.

[Mark Bussman]

So far, I'm looking at the Sony E540 for a CRT monitor, and the Samsung 19XX monitors for an LCD. I'm also looking at the Sony LCDs as well. All of these options are pretty pricey though.

I hate not being able to find what I really want at a retail store. I'm hesitant about buying a monitor online possibly sight unseen...

Any suggestions/recommendations are definitely welcome.

[DennyA]

Mark,

Playing IL2-FB and LOMAC, I really haven't noticed any smearing or other problems. Now, I'm not LOOKING for it, so it may just be something that someone who's really anal could detect. But I've really had no problems playing any games--sims, shooters, etc.

[Mark Bussman]

Thanks Denny. I'm probably one of those anal people you mentioned. :) The aperture grill lines on my current (now dead) monitor didn't bother me until I looked for them, then it took me several months until I stopped being bothered by them. Maybe I need to stick with a CRT for now...

That Sony looks good, but it's bigger than I really want. Ah well, I'll have to do more browsing.

[Mark Bussman]

Well, we bought a Samsung 172N for our server (it's a server that gets used, call it a workstation if you want) today, so I plugged it into my machine to see if I noticed anything in IL-2. I see this horizontal streaking phenomenon caused by the prop rotation effect when looking through the gunsight at the high zoom level. It makes shooting kinda difficult, and just looks bad. Unfortunately, this monitor doesn't have DVI input, so I can't switch to that and see if it goes away. I won't buy one online and take the chance that the effect will remain (15% restocking fee on a $600 monitor... ouch). It's too bad too. I really want to like the LCD. I like having some desk space back, and it just looks cool. The crispness for web browsing and such is great at the native resolution. Ah well, I guess I need to look for a good CRT... :( So far I've found the Samsung 955DF and the Sony E540.

[Bull]

Ah well, I guess I need to look for a good CRT... :( So far I've found the Samsung 955DF and the Sony E540.

Mark Bussman, meet Woolen Horde. He has a nice CRT for sale!