Nice op-ed on Ahnold from Will

[JeffL]

Grazing the opinion columns at lunch today, came across this piece by George Will. While I think his comment on "direct democracy" is off-base, he makes some very incisive comments on why putting Ahnold in and thinking this is a Republican major victory is dumb. Nice article.

[Rywill]

I tried Google with no luck and don't know who Will writes for. Can you put up a link?

[Bub, Andrew]

Newsweek?
I haven't seen it but I'm not surprised. Will has written against this recall from the start. He doesn't like the precedent it sets.

[Woolen Horde]

Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A224-2003Oct8.html

[Jason McCullough]

Wow, Will sticks to his principles for once.

[JeffL]

Wow, Will sticks to his principles for once.

Sorry for not including the link (just forgot.)

Yeah, Will can be very articulate. I think he usually sticks to his principles most of the time (you probably like this one more than others, Jason. :wink: )

[JeffL]

I tried Google with no luck and don't know who Will writes for. Can you put up a link?

forgot, someone else has posted the link to the Post.

BTW - whether you like the page or not, drudgereport.com has a very nice set of links to just about every new wire and columnist, right, left, and middle, at the bottom half of the page.

[quatoria]

I tried Google with no luck and don't know who Will writes for. Can you put up a link?

forgot, someone else has posted the link to the Post.

BTW - whether you like the page or not, drudgereport.com has a very nice set of links to just about every new wire and columnist, right, left, and middle, at the bottom half of the page.

I won't give him the hits, regardless of how useful his page may occasionally be. Drudge is a tabloid sleeze without any concept of journalistic ethics or integrity. He's been caught repeatedly inventing stories or propogating stories that turn out to be bullshit, simply because he refuses to engage in even rudimentary fact checking before going public with a story. It's despicable. He should have stuck to going through celebrity trash cans.

[Jason McCullough]

Well, he kind of sounds like a bitter social conservative.

[JeffL]

I tried Google with no luck and don't know who Will writes for. Can you put up a link?

forgot, someone else has posted the link to the Post.

BTW - whether you like the page or not, drudgereport.com has a very nice set of links to just about every new wire and columnist, right, left, and middle, at the bottom half of the page.

I won't give him the hits, regardless of how useful his page may occasionally be. Drudge is a tabloid sleeze without any concept of journalistic ethics or integrity. He's been caught repeatedly inventing stories or propogating stories that turn out to be bullshit, simply because he refuses to engage in even rudimentary fact checking before going public with a story. It's despicable. He should have stuck to going through celebrity trash cans.

Ah - yeah, you wouldn't see somewhere like the NY Times posting anything that wasn't totally true and checked out, right? :wink:

well, 99.9% of what he has on his page is simply links to other sources. It surprises me a bit that it is labeled an exclusively "right wing" site, as usually it links stories critical to the right and the Repubs as well as the left. I don't use it a lot because other news pages on my "News Page" link page tend to be better and more timely, but once in a while he will post a link before anyone else gets it.

A quick glance right now: links to nytimes and usatoday and london times and yahoo news, articles on the chinese orbiting the earth, a breaking article from Munich where the admin is feeling out a defensive missile system against Iran (could we BE any dumber?) in Europe, articles on Rumsfeld reportedly being frozen out of Iraq decisions from the Financial Times, a note that Franken has knocked O'Reilly out of the NYT #1 spot, a story about a special ed student being elected homecoming king at a high school, etc. Hardly a page with an obvious agenda - at least today.

[quatoria]

Linking is a far cry from writing. Try reading the stories he comes up with, or watching what he presents on television. And there's a big difference between failing to ever fact check a story, as Drudge systematically does, and very rarely slipping up, as the New York Times does. Particularly as when it does fuck up, the Times issues a mea culpa. Find me an instance of Drudge apologizing when it's turned out that his stories were bullshit.

[Jason McCullough]

Yeah, you can poke around http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/ and see some amusing bits where he silently takes down links/text attacking liberals when something exculpatory comes out.

[JeffL]

Yeah, you can poke around http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/ and see some amusing bits where he silently takes down links/text attacking liberals when something exculpatory comes out.

Man, you guys are so paranoid. I check his page about once every three days or so, and it just isn't the big conspiracy you guys are making it out to be. Please read it for a couple of weeks and then point out all of the stuff you're so up in arms about. It's primarily a cheap-ass google news in many ways, in the way it links to a variety of sites. And I've seen just as many "special reports" that are as critical to the right as the left (although I imagine, from the pop up ads, that the readers are probably more conservative than not.)

[quatoria]

That's lovely and, par for the course, anecdotal, but does absolutely nothing to refute the point that Drudge pays no mind whatsoever to ethical standards of journalistic behavior. If you'd care to actually *argue* the contrary point, I'd be happy to listen, but it's beginning to seem that every time you're on the opposite side of an issue, all you can provide is personal stories of what you've seen someone do, or what you've enjoyed reading on their site, or what you've seen on television. There's no meat on that bone, my friend.

[Squirrel Killer]

...Drudge pays no mind whatsoever to ethical standards of journalistic behavior.

Is there a reason I should care about the journalistic ethics of a site I use only to supplement fark.com to find interesting links?

[Lizard_King]

...Drudge pays no mind whatsoever to ethical standards of journalistic behavior.

Is there a reason I should care about the journalistic ethics of a site I use only to supplement fark.com to find interesting links?

No. But apparently it's really fun to talk about, so you might want to give it a shot.

[quatoria]

...Drudge pays no mind whatsoever to ethical standards of journalistic behavior.

Is there a reason I should care about the journalistic ethics of a site I use only to supplement fark.com to find interesting links?

No. But apparently it's really fun to talk about, so you might want to give it a shot.

When stories that he invents from whole cloth are picked up and used by television news channels and radio pundits, or used to slander people running for political office, yes, you should care. We're all harmed as the standard of discource and debate continues to be dragged into the mud and drowned there.

[JeffL]

That's lovely and, par for the course, anecdotal, but does absolutely nothing to refute the point that Drudge pays no mind whatsoever to ethical standards of journalistic behavior. If you'd care to actually *argue* the contrary point, I'd be happy to listen, but it's beginning to seem that every time you're on the opposite side of an issue, all you can provide is personal stories of what you've seen someone do, or what you've enjoyed reading on their site, or what you've seen on television. There's no meat on that bone, my friend.

What the *Hell* are you ranting about? I said his site is 99% links to stories on a wide variety of sources - that here's what's on there today - that I'd like to see some examples in the next few weeks of the kind of stories that so offend you. What the fark is "anecdotal" about that - Drudge is a site that anyone can look at and see what it is and isn't. That's not a "personal" story. You're whining about a site that you said you refuse to read, and then throw out all manner of generalities. My contrary point was read the damned site and point out some specifics of what you're talking about instead of all of this "moral outrage". I'm no fan of Drudge, just pointed out to someone that he has one of the best sets of links to columnists of all stripes, I have no emotional feelings towards the site at all since it's just basically a links page. Your the one throwing out all the crap, without specifics (at least Jason provides specifics) about how he's the downfall of western reporting. Sheesh.

[TrodKnee]

Wasn't that "Rush Limbaugh addicted to prescription drugs" story broken by the National Enquirer, a veritable icon of journalistic integrity?

[Jason McCullough]

Jeff, remember when he insisted that "Clinton's black baby" story was about to come out for like a month? With no links whatsoever? It was all just blind quotes, if I remember right.

[JeffL]

Jeff, remember when he insisted that "Clinton's black baby" story was about to come out for like a month? With no links whatsoever? It was all just blind quotes, if I remember right.

Actually Jason I don't, and that's not being evasive or doubting it happened, I just don't remember that. Has there been a rash of these in the last few years? Like I said, I don't have any strong feelings about drudge, I look at it once in a while because he does link to all manner of stories without apparent concern for whose ox they gore (looking yesterday he was giving heads up on a breaking story about the Red Cross calling conditions in Guantanamo intolerable, hardly something that the Bush folks fed him - and I see the story did break this morning in the NY Times.) Plus he has an incredible set of links on his page to just about every major paper and column in the world, which is my major use for the page. I imagine that he does indeed report "inside" tips he gets in an attempt to get hits and publicity. I just wish people would get as inflamed when ANYONE does this, including newspapers, and not just when it comes down on the "wrong" side of their political beliefs.

[Jason McCullough]

Here's the "black baby" stuff:

http://www.anusha.com/negroson.htm
http://www.anusha.com/star-cov.htm

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/specialReports_pc_carden_detail.htm?reportID={CF89 BD0B-4E3B-4D98-9077-85A4D80F55E0}

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/specialReports_pc_carden_detail.htm?reportID={010A 5EB2-AB74-4463-BA0A-2A8A6E6BD100}

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/specialReports_pc_carden_detail.htm?reportID={8C95 48CF-D959-4D39-B5CC-F7773BDD0D8F}

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/specialReports_pc_carden_detail.htm?reportID={B5E2 DC5F-DCB0-4A4A-AD05-95EF060CBA36}

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/specialReports_pc_carden_detail.htm?reportID={85D2 988C-C91E-46C5-A384-714C85BD92E4}

Accusing a politican of fathering a black child is one of the oldest dirty tricks in the South; it's virtually always false, of course.

The thing about Drudge is that he has no standards at all; he operates by the journalistic standards of yellow journalism, yet gets treated like he's a real reporter - you know, one that confirms what his sources tell him. He just throws any damned thing a conservative leaks to him.

He also mysteriously takes a long time to post shocking stuff about conservative leaders - unless its a case of them not being conservative enough. He's just a GOP leak conduit. Remember when he tried to out that Candian ABC news reporter, who was already out? Remember when he stuck up some blind quotes on the day David Brock released his book about how he had himself committed to a mental hospital for a while?

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2002/05/23/20020523_220055_brockb.htm

I'm not complaining about his links, really; just all the unsourced smears he throws up on the page. He's as much of a "journalist" as NewsMax is an "independent newspaper."

Oh yeah, Brock more or less painted him as a GOP shill in his book, too.

[JeffL]

Good links - thanks. I've seen Drudge interviewed, he reminds me more of the guy who runs the "Aint-it-cool" movie page than anyone - a guy who cranked up a web page, gets fed rumours from various sources once in a while. Although I must admit in the occasional viewing of the site I've done in the last few years I haven't seen much of that.

Thank goodness there's no agenda anywhere in the media on the liberal side! ;) (No, I don't think there is a blanket "liberal media conspiracy", but there are a lot of individual media outlets that do let their bias show in a fairly blatant manner. I'm still searching for the truly unbiased, either way, news source - in lieue of that I watch both, e.g., Fox News and ABC News.)

[Case]

I love the way this thread has been completely derailed.

It was orginally about an opinion piece by conservative luminary George Will complaining about how the California recall would ultimately be bad for conservatives. There was very little comment about Will's opinion piece.

So, what do the conservatives hanging out here think about what ol' George wrote?

[Jason McCullough]

Oh, the bias is fine; it's that even the National Enquirer apparently has better reporting standards.

[JeffL]

I love the way this thread has been completely derailed.

It was orginally about an opinion piece by conservative luminary George Will complaining about how the California recall would ultimately be bad for conservatives. There was very little comment about Will's opinion piece.

So, what do the conservatives hanging out here think about what ol' George wrote?

:) Yeah, I was the one who started the thread, too. Although I argue with the liberals here because few others will (I also tend to join the undermanned side in BF1942) I don't really qualify as a conservative, but I thought it was a superb article.