View Full Version : It's the Goverator! Exit Polls Say Arnie's The One!
Woolen Horde
10-07-2003, 08:17 PM
Good or bad? Say so!
Jason McCullough
10-07-2003, 08:26 PM
Amusing. The legislature will probably just stiff arm him until the next election.
DennyA
10-07-2003, 08:27 PM
Should be fun to watch him fall on his face...
Since I don't live in California anymore, that is. :-)
Bob Cherub
10-07-2003, 08:28 PM
Yea, I hope he falls on his face. I mean, since California has done so well with Democratic leadership.
Tards.
Bob Violence
10-07-2003, 09:55 PM
I mean, since California has done so well with Democratic leadership.
Not sure what this has to do with the fact that Arnold is an imbecile.
Supertanker
10-07-2003, 10:00 PM
My wife says, "Hasta la vista, Grayby!"
Bob Violence
10-07-2003, 10:14 PM
You can read the results as they come in at http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/gov/00.htm.
I wonder how long it will take before they start recalling him.
Bob Violence
10-07-2003, 10:36 PM
Does the recall procedure apply to governors elected in special elections?
Rywill
10-07-2003, 10:40 PM
My God...it's full of idiots!
Someone send me the info on that libertarian New Hampshire thing again. I can't take it anymore. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF MY STATE GOVERNMENT. It's like a screwball comedy, but with my financial well-being on the line.
Does the recall procedure apply to governors elected in special elections?
Not if the Republicans have anything they can do about it.
This will hurt Bush. It will make it easier for the Democrats spin Bush as a President who has lost touch with the needs of the American people like Davis has with the people of CA.
I hope that a recall effort for Arnold doesn't get put together.
1) We really don't need elections every 6 months. There are problems in California that need some attention, after all.
2) Democrats need to focus on beating Bush.
Prodigy
10-08-2003, 01:28 AM
Only in America...
Brad Grenz
10-08-2003, 02:17 AM
I hope that a recall effort for Arnold doesn't get put together.
1) We really don't need elections every 6 months. There are problems in California that need some attention, after all.
2) Democrats need to focus on beating Bush.
Like the Democrats have that kind of money to throw around. And all that "recalls hurt everyone" rhetoric will sound pretty hypocritical if they start up their own recall.
Guido Jones
10-08-2003, 02:54 AM
Man this makes me sad :/ I want Arnold to make Terminator 4 dammit.
Desslock
10-08-2003, 03:42 AM
This is fucking fantastic.
DennyA
10-08-2003, 05:56 AM
There's already a Democratic recall effort underway, they reported this morning. Which is nuts -- not even giving the guy a day in office is even more damning evidence that the recalls aren't about performance, but about being sore losers. Despite the idiocy of electing Arnold governor, he did win fair and square.
Mississippi and Utah have to be quite pleased this morning -- California has clearly taken the title of "most screwed-up state," and it was the people's choice.
Man. I'm just glad that Arnold can't be elected POTUS.
Midnight Son
10-08-2003, 06:39 AM
California, it seems, does have a great sense of humor. (Or millions of idiots. You decide.)
JeffL
10-08-2003, 07:00 AM
I'm more interested in seeing whether the Democratic leadership is intelligent enough to try to extract any lessons from this whole fiasco. The easy thing is to put on the blinders and blather like McCauliff (sp), but a significant number of Democrats voted for the recall, a lot of Democrats stayed home (apparently), the special interest votes didn't swing as hard as they have taken for granted, and between Ahnold and McClintock there were a LOT of votes they probably weren't happy to see. A smart Dem leadership wouldn't be trying to rationalize all of this - sometimes you get your best lessons from a major defeat.
Woolen Horde
10-08-2003, 07:14 AM
I'm more interested in seeing whether the Democratic leadership is intelligent enough to try to extract any lessons from this whole fiasco. The easy thing is to put on the blinders and blather like McCauliff (sp), but a significant number of Democrats voted for the recall, a lot of Democrats stayed home (apparently), the special interest votes didn't swing as hard as they have taken for granted, and between Ahnold and McClintock there were a LOT of votes they probably weren't happy to see. A smart Dem leadership wouldn't be trying to rationalize all of this - sometimes you get your best lessons from a major defeat.
The Republicans sure did. After losing twice to Clinton, they swiped his playbook. Yeah, "Compassionate Conservatism" is utterly hollow, but it's perfect Clintonian triangulation.
quatoria
10-08-2003, 07:39 AM
I wonder how long it will take before they start recalling him.
Well, since he defeated McClintock, my guess is that it should be eleven months before McClintock spends another seven million to get the signatures for a recall....
quatoria
10-08-2003, 07:42 AM
There's already a Democratic recall effort underway, they reported this morning. Which is nuts -- not even giving the guy a day in office is even more damning evidence that the recalls aren't about performance, but about being sore losers.
Was there ever any doubt that the recall was about being a sore loser? It was manufactured by a multi-millionaire who was angry that Davis beat him. Give me seven million dollars and I'll get a million signatures for a recall petition, too.
Only in America...
Oh, man, it's so true!
Nobody else in the entire wolrd could be so stupid! Except - off the top of my head - the Italians, who are a little too swarthy to count as 100% full fledged people, and the Filipinos, who I'm pretty sure still live in trees.
Italians vote porn star into parliament:
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/actors/cicciolina/
Filipinos elect action movie star Jose Estrada to be their president:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zj5j-gttl/s980515.htm
So after a brief moment of doubt, I still think you're totally right. Only in America, my friend. Boy you said a mouthful there.
Idar Thorvaldsen
10-08-2003, 08:45 AM
EDIT: Ach, never mind.
Prodigy
10-08-2003, 08:45 AM
Only in America...
Oh, man, it's so true!
Nobody else in the entire wolrd could be so stupid!
Who said anything about being stupid ? My comment was vaguely amused, that's all. I don't live in California, what ability would I have to judge this election ? But I'm french, so I must be critical, right ?
Rywill
10-08-2003, 08:58 AM
Yeah, I also pretty much figured that because you were French, you were critical. Well, and also because you posted that critical comment. But that's probably just because I'm American.
marxeil
10-08-2003, 09:28 AM
My wife says, "Hasta la vista, Grayby!"
Hasta la vista, California 8)
Jason McCullough
10-08-2003, 09:30 AM
There's already a Democratic recall effort underway, they reported this morning. Which is nuts -- not even giving the guy a day in office is even more damning evidence that the recalls aren't about performance, but about being sore losers. Despite the idiocy of electing Arnold governor, he did win fair and square.
Mississippi and Utah have to be quite pleased this morning -- California has clearly taken the title of "most screwed-up state," and it was the people's choice.
Man. I'm just glad that Arnold can't be elected POTUS.
I'm not following how it's being a "sore loser" to recall Schwartznegger, but not to recall Davis.
I think the lesson for Democrats is "assholes can't survive a perfect political storm." Maybe someone who's not an asshole could survive the dotcom meltdown, recession, and energy crisis.
DennyA
10-08-2003, 09:33 AM
I'm not following how it's being a "sore loser" to recall Schwartznegger, but not to recall Davis.
Probably because I didn't say that. :)
Prodigy
10-08-2003, 09:43 AM
Yeah, I also pretty much figured that because you were French, you were critical. Well, and also because you posted that critical comment. But that's probably just because I'm American.
I guess so ! What's critical about my comment ?
I'll have to look inside my "politically correct" handbook next time I'll post anything here.
BTW, this reply was in no way critical ©
TrodKnee
10-08-2003, 10:00 AM
I'm not following how it's being a "sore loser" to recall Schwartznegger, but not to recall Davis.
It's just typical political sophistry. The Democrat's outcry was that the whole concept of a recall is bad for politics. This makes it clear that they only think that a recall is wrong when they are the ones holding office.
Lizard_King
10-08-2003, 11:47 AM
Like the Democrats have that kind of money to throw around.
Perhaps if they hadn't spent that 17million trying to save Davis....
And all that "recalls hurt everyone" rhetoric will sound pretty hypocritical if they start up their own recall.
I am pretty sure most of them believe their own rhetoric about Arnold's empty headedness...They'll probably just wait around for Arnold to start groping Nazi women or whatever the hell it is they think he's about.
Worked out great last time an "idiot" won....
Jason McCullough
10-08-2003, 11:58 AM
I'm not following how it's being a "sore loser" to recall Schwartznegger, but not to recall Davis.
It's just typical political sophistry. The Democrat's outcry was that the whole concept of a recall is bad for politics. This makes it clear that they only think that a recall is wrong when they are the ones holding office.
Do you think Democrats would start using recalls if this one had failed?
Lizard_King
10-08-2003, 12:03 PM
Do you think Democrats would start using recalls if this one had failed?
Absolutely, if they thought they had any chance of winning. What on earth makes you think the wouldn't? It even sounds like "recount".
I'm not following how it's being a "sore loser" to recall Schwartznegger, but not to recall Davis.
It's just typical political sophistry. The Democrat's outcry was that the whole concept of a recall is bad for politics. This makes it clear that they only think that a recall is wrong when they are the ones holding office.
Its funny how you condem "The Democrats" for starting a recall when they haven't actually started a recall yet.
Jason McCullough
10-08-2003, 12:18 PM
Do you think Democrats would start using recalls if this one had failed?
Absolutely, if they thought they had any chance of winning. What on earth makes you think the wouldn't? It even sounds like "recount".
Then why hadn't they ever tried before, LK? It's like the "redistricting whenever you get control of the legislature" thing being tried in CO & TX; it's violating a political norm. Once its already been done, though, you're just consigning yourself to lose elections if you refrain.
mtkafka
10-08-2003, 12:59 PM
The real thing is can Arnold fix California's debt? What's he going to do? no new taxes? stop mexicans from getting drivers licenses? new business incentive? trickle down economics? haha good luck! I think Davis GAVE Arnold the governorship. Davis was rightfully criticized for a 'bad' job I suppose... but is AHNOLD the cure?!?!? oh just another indication of the FALL OF AMERICA!
etc
Its funny how you condem "The Democrats" for starting a recall when they haven't actually started a recall yet.
DennyA said (earlier in this thread) that they had, which could be the point he was responding to. I've since heard that the party leader has said they would wait at least one hundred days before starting a new recall initiative.
Then why hadn't they ever tried before, LK?
They have tried before, according to a brief Google search. Recall initiatives were started against former Republican party Governors Pete Wilson, George Deukmejian, and Ronald Reagan while they were in office. No previous effort has succeeded in getting enough signatures to bring the matter to a vote.
--milo
http://www.starshatter.com
Jason McCullough
10-08-2003, 01:51 PM
I'll be damned, you're right.
http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/recall/story/7010413p-7771308c.html
Doug Erickson
10-08-2003, 02:03 PM
A Democratic recall of Schwarzenegger would just be imbecilic.
Look, I'm appalled as any left-winger that Schwarzenegger got into office, but at LEAST give the inflated shitheel a chance to either redeem or condemn himself. A series of recalls will do FAR more damage to CA's well-being than a lameduck governor. Rather, reform or remove the recall process, since it's obviously flawed. Picking quality Republican candidates is an not an issue the Dems can address.
Davis was blamed for a number of factors he really had little influence over, but he handled the energy crisis so gracelessly that removing him wasn't entirely without merit. I say give Ah-nuld a chance to prove the recall was a worthwhile process, or to likewise prove it was nothing more than a very partisan joke.
Sometimes, change is good. CA's problems seem largely independent of the governor's office these days, and I think CA's constituency will find Arnie as ineffectual as Davis. If not, well, good for that beleaguered state.
Woolen Horde
10-08-2003, 03:00 PM
The press is falling over themselves trying to figure out What This Means in the big scheme of things, but I don't know what kind of lessons that can be drawn on a national scale from this. Aside from don't piss off your constituents.
Republicans may declare Arnie the new GOP paradigm of how to smash the Democrats (he got 30-percent of the Democratic vote), but that's because Arnie is much more moderate than what the Republican Party would even tolerate these days. Both parties have hardened to their core constituents, so it's hard to see a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control Republican get past the primaries in any other state. Hell, even Arnie probably couldn't do it, but he lucked out because with the recall, he could skip the Orange County GOP crowd and put himself directly on the ballet.
I think this just goes to having the best possible candidate for the Republicans. I don't think McClintock or Issa would have dethroned Davis. But the combination of Arnold's popularity and the sheer loathing for Gray Davis really made this an easy win for the Republicans.
I do hope Arnie steers toward the middle of the road, politically. For one, I think he has no choice. Bush may have gone into office saying he'd work with Democrats, but he then beat them over the stick day after day. But Bush had the luxury of having both houses of Congress. Arnold has to deal with one of the most Left-leaning legislatures around. But I do think this may do some good for the state; it's a bad thing when one party has control for too long. That tends to steer things too far into one direction. I know the Economist has been lamenting the lack of competition of political ideas in California for a while.
I'm gonna go rent Predator tonight and figure out which cast member will become the next state governor. We've already had Ventura and now Schwarzenegger. Was Paxton in the movie? It's the Predator Primary!
Jason McCullough
10-08-2003, 03:10 PM
Why not the Predator?
Woolen Horde
10-08-2003, 03:14 PM
Why not the Predator?
Why not? His slogan could be "I'll get Osama and Saddam. Trust me."
This will make it harder for Right-Wingers to tell people like Susan Sarandon to shut the fuck up because they're only movie stars and don't knwo shit about politics and the country.
This will make it harder for Right-Wingers to tell people like Susan Sarandon to shut the fuck up because they're only movie stars and don't knwo shit about politics and the country.
I'm going to remember that.
Dr Fear
10-08-2003, 03:40 PM
Amusing. The legislature will probably just stiff arm him until the next election.
Which of course would be great -- nothing says "Welcome to Algeria!" like ignoring elections. Fortunately for most Californians, this NPR interview with Democratic state Senate Majority Leader Don Perata
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1459441
sounds like legislators recognize that they need to address some fundamental issues, or at least pretend like they are addressing them until they can get the California National Guard to have Schwarzenegger arrested and flown to Cuba. An interesting quote from Perata: "California legislators are even more unpopular than Gray Davis, which is a pretty big accomplishment."
Jason McCullough
10-08-2003, 03:53 PM
Uh huh. Not rolling over for one of the other branches of government is equivalent to Algerian dictatorshipos.
quatoria
10-08-2003, 03:58 PM
Uh huh. Not rolling over for one of the other branches of government is equivalent to Algerian dictatorshipos.
Don't be silly, Jason. It's principled resistance when republican legislators refuse to vote for anything from the executive branch, regardless of merit. It's only totalitarian class warfare when democratic legislators refuse to vote for *everything* that comes from the executive branch. When will you learn?
Jason McCullough
10-08-2003, 03:59 PM
Reporting to re-education, sir!
quatoria
10-08-2003, 04:02 PM
Reporting to re-education, sir!
Good man. Place a radio in every room, and tune to clearchannel talk stations. We'll have you right thinking in no time.
Prodigy
10-09-2003, 02:09 AM
Why not the Predator?
Why not? His slogan could be "I'll get Osama and Saddam. Trust me."
But then, maybe he already has...
Midnight Son
10-09-2003, 05:30 AM
What makes Ahnold think he has the answers to Cali's problems? What makes 4 million voters believe he can fix it? Must be fluorite in the water.
RichardC
10-09-2003, 05:36 AM
A series of recalls will do FAR more damage to CA's well-being than a lameduck governor.
Every time I see someone use that word, I can't help but think of those "HOWARD FOR PRESIDENT!" stickers all over the net.
JeffL
10-09-2003, 07:25 AM
Amusing. The legislature will probably just stiff arm him until the next election.
Yeah. God forbid people should actually try to work together and fix some problems.
Ben Sones
10-09-2003, 07:45 AM
Ventura actually did a good job running MN, but as Ry pointed out last time we had this conversation, MN doesn't have anywhere near the caliber of issues on the table that CA does. CA has got to be one of the most complicated states to run in the nation, so it's not exactly the ideal "starter state" for a political newbie. I like much of Arnold's platform, but the real question is whether he has any idea how to implement any of his ideas, or whether he'll be able to do so without getting chewed up and spit out by the CA political machine.
One thing that I do hope to see: Arnold strolls in to Davis' office and cuts him in half with a machete. Then he goes out to meet the press, and when they ask him where Davis is, he tells them "He had to split."
Prodigy
10-09-2003, 10:58 AM
Does he - and my question is candid since we're not very well informed on the issue here - have a political program, or, to be more specific, what mesures and promises was he elected upon ? Apart from the democrats/republicans differences that you all might have, can someone explain to me if he has or not a solid political agenda for the state ?
Does he - and my question is candid since we're not very well informed on the issue here - have a political program, or, to be more specific, what mesures and promises was he elected upon ? Apart from the democrats/republicans differences that you all might have, can someone explain to me if he has or not a solid political agenda for the state ?
His campaign was the ultimate seduction.
Alan Au
10-09-2003, 11:59 AM
Why not the Predator?
Predator 3: Washington DC
- Alan
Lizard_King
10-09-2003, 01:11 PM
This will make it harder for Right-Wingers to tell people like Susan Sarandon to shut the fuck up because they're only movie stars and don't knwo shit about politics and the country.
The reason people say that to Susan Sarandon is because she doesn't, in fact, know shit. Being a movie star can be part of the problem, but it isn't the problem. If the entire cast of Buffy the Vampire Slayer became the next generation of GOP senators, it would still not invalidate the criticisms of celebrity blowhards like Sarandon, which stand in their own right.
Jason McCullough
10-09-2003, 01:26 PM
Unlike Arnold, who's admitted he doesn't know shit? Remember, just like Bush, that's what advisors are for!
Lizard_King
10-09-2003, 01:33 PM
Unlike Arnold, who's admitted he doesn't know shit? Remember, just like Bush, that's what advisors are for!
A thick facade of knowledge and intellect is far more dangerous and repulsive. But I can see why that would be difficult for a liberal to acknowledge, since you are so used to supporting geniuses like Algore and Bill Bradley. Hell, your entire creed is based around illuminated minds guiding the hoi polloi to the glorious future.
Doug Erickson
10-09-2003, 03:57 PM
So Lizard King is now a Maoist?
CURSE THOSE INTELLECTUALS AND THEIR ANTI-POPULIST DEVICES!
Qenan
10-09-2003, 04:26 PM
Look, I'm appalled as any left-winger that Schwarzenegger got into office, but at LEAST give the inflated shitheel a chance to either redeem or condemn himself. A series of recalls will do FAR more damage to CA's well-being than a lameduck governor. Rather, reform or remove the recall process, since it's obviously flawed. Picking quality Republican candidates is an not an issue the Dems can address.
Speaking as an out of state observer, I'm definitely more inclined to give money for a recall. If it screws California? They deserve it for voting for the first recall...
Rywill
10-09-2003, 04:56 PM
In reply to the earlier question about his platform: he basically doesn't have one. He's said he'll repeal the car tax (that is, put it back at the level it was at before Davis tripled it, presumably - not abolish it altogether), won't raise taxes, and won't decrease education spending. That's about the limit of his actual policy ideas. He's also put out a large number of vaporous goals like "I'll go through the state budget and eliminate waste," "I'll make a positive business environment in California," etc. I'm all for those theoretical ideas--there's surely too much waste in the state budget and there's no question that California businesses are heavily, heavily regulated. But he hasn't said exactly how he will do any of that stuff, presumably because he hasn't decided yet. We'll see, I guess.
Lizard_King
10-09-2003, 06:10 PM
In reply to the earlier question about his platform: he basically doesn't have one. He's said he'll repeal the car tax (that is, put it back at the level it was at before Davis tripled it, presumably - not abolish it altogether), won't raise taxes, and won't decrease education spending. That's about the limit of his actual policy ideas. He's also put out a large number of vaporous goals like "I'll go through the state budget and eliminate waste," "I'll make a positive business environment in California," etc. I'm all for those theoretical ideas--there's surely too much waste in the state budget and there's no question that California businesses are heavily, heavily regulated. But he hasn't said exactly how he will do any of that stuff, presumably because he hasn't decided yet. We'll see, I guess.
The only realistic approach would involve curbing the 45% of the budget that consists of popular initiatives. Between that and all the tough calls on immigration that await, I'd say he's up the creek.
Jason McCullough
10-09-2003, 08:39 PM
LK, which is it? It does matter if actors know something about politics when they comment on it - in which case Sarandon & Schwartznegger are justifiably made fun of - or it doesn't matter?
Lizard_King
10-10-2003, 12:01 AM
LK, which is it? It does matter if actors know something about politics when they comment on it - in which case Sarandon & Schwartznegger are justifiably made fun of - or it doesn't matter?
It does matter, in which case Schwarzenegger has taken more substantive shits that Sarandon could dream of, and not just because I agree with 1% of his ideas. Protip: phrasing the question in ridiculous terms will not mean you have anything to say.
Jason McCullough
10-10-2003, 12:03 AM
I don't think Schwartznegger mentioning Milton Friedman once counts as "knowledge about government."
JeffL
10-10-2003, 05:47 AM
I don't think Schwartznegger mentioning Milton Friedman once counts as "knowledge about government."
I frankly have no idea whether Ahnold is more knowledgeable in governmental matters than average - I think he's probably about as knowledgeable as you and me.
What I think makes the difference is that he didn't just sit on the sidelines and bitch and complain like most Hollywood "pundits". He put himself out on the chopping block and tried to do something about it. Knowing the risks of doing so. He's said that he won't make movies during his term, so in effect he gave something up to do this.
I'd be a lot more willing to listen to people like Sarandon spew their venom (there's never "We need to do the following, and I am putting together a program to do this, and I'm seeding it with xx million, and I'll be spending the next year in the Congo making sure it happens", it's always "This person is a Nazi and a danger to our children") if they got off their ass and did something. Let her run for office and get into position to try to make a change. Let her put something on the line. Bitching is easy - doing something positive to change things for the better is what makes a difference.
Do I think Ahnold has a clue? Not really, though I don't know - he had as many specifics as any of the "professionals" running. But at least he didn't just sit on the sidelines and whine and bitch.
Jason McCullough
10-10-2003, 10:13 AM
That's a good reason, but that's not the one everyone uses when attacking Democratic celebrities. It's all "they're not qualified/they don't know anything."
And since when was actually doing something required of commentators? If anything, it's the other way around.
JeffL
10-10-2003, 10:57 AM
That's a good reason, but that's not the one everyone uses when attacking Democratic celebrities. It's all "they're not qualified/they don't know anything."
And since when was actually doing something required of commentators? If anything, it's the other way around.
Are there Republican celebrities? ;) Actually, Jason, imagine that there was a phase inversion, and all of the Hollywood Elite were conservatives and every week you would see them being interviewed talking about what idiots all of the Democrats were and how evil the Democrats were and how they would move out of America if Gore won, and on and on and on. And if you couldn't watch an awards show on TV without an endless stream of attacks on liberals and Democrats. Would you feel as sanguine about the whole thing? Hell, liberals here go ape-shit over trivial people like Drudge and O'Reilly - you get pissed about Dennis Miller - imagine if the entire entertainment business was filled with arch-conservatives!
I imagine what gets most people irritated is that many of these celebrities aren't the sharpest crayons in the box, but they come across as if they feel their "status" imparts some type of special wisdom. Like I said, it's no biggie to me whatever they say, but they - as well as anyone, left, right, or middle, who merely bitches about something and whose whole agenda is focused on putting other people down - have zero credibility with me either. Which I'm sure just breaks their hearts.
You're right, nothing at all is required of anyone to make commentaries. All of us on this board are the ultimate example of that! LOL!
Jason McCullough
10-10-2003, 11:18 AM
Better question: why are celebrities interviewed about their political beliefs anyway?
JeffL
10-10-2003, 12:04 PM
Better question: why are celebrities interviewed about their political beliefs anyway?
As Dennis Miller said on the radio show, to the shock of the caller complaining about it, because people DO care - they care enough to rant and rave and bitch rather than just shrug and say "ho hum."
Jason McCullough
10-10-2003, 12:08 PM
Are people out there really demanding that Sarandon go on political talk shows? Are the ratings that much higher? I think it's just a producer thing.
Lizard_King
10-10-2003, 01:54 PM
Better question: why are celebrities interviewed about their political beliefs anyway?
My favcurite was when some E reporter or something walked up to Brad Pitt at some event and asked him what he thought of the war in Iraq. His response was along the lines of "Why the fuck are you asking me? I'm a movie star."
Well, apparently Arnold is going to balance the budget by getting the federal government to stop taking our money and giving it to flyover country (www.foxreno.com/politics/2546388/detail.html).
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