Haldeman: 1, Clarke: 0

[Tom Chick]

I don't care for fantasy. It's all Wagnerian epic wanna-bes (an artifact of unimagineable power -- a ring! a sword! -- falls into the hands of a simple farmboy with a secret destiny!) stripped to their most pedestrian level: boys with toys. Sometimes even elven boys with toys. Ugh. At least, that's the only incite [sic] I have to offer on the genre.

But I haven't given up on science fiction. I've admired William Gibson's prose and texture, and recently discovered Stanislaw Lem's humor and intelligence. So while browsing the second-hand English language section of a Prague bookstore, I picked up The Forever War, which is a title I think I've seen in Quarter to Three threads I've ignored because they're too geeky for me, and an Arther C. Clarke novel called Childhood's End.

The Clarke was absolute twaddle. Clumsy writing, some stupid message about Utopia supplanting the religions of the world, a little half-baked alien invasion yarn, and a 2001-style ending in which all human consciousness comes together and does something that probably looks cool if you're stoned. I haven't checked dates, but I suspect the only point of interest for Childhood's End is that it was an obvious inspiration for The Day the Earth Stood Still.

BTW, I seem to recall Close Encounters of the Third Kind being heralded as being completely original for portraying aliens as benevolent. Bollocks. That's the last time I'll listen to heralds.

The Forever War fared slightly better. A nice Vietnam-era take on war with a deftly handled relativity twist. And a satisfying climax and great ending. And some funny (I presume intentionally funny, but I can never really tell with things from the 70s) stuff about homosexuality. I wish Haldeman had a better handle on characters, since it would have lifted the book out of its bland sci-fi roots if there had been a compelling character at its center rather than just a protagonist.

At any rate, these satisfied any sci-fi jones I may have for a while. It's back to lit-RU-ture for me now. Which I was about ready to give up after reading a Thomas Hardy novel (Jeff Lackey's Chandler quote about the English being the world's best writers of dull fiction came to mind), but that's another thread.

-Tom

[Jason Levine]

Interesting to read a Tom Chick trashing of what's generally considered one of the classics of Sci Fi. For what it's worth, Childhood's End was published two years after The Day the Earth Stood Still was released. I can see the similarities between the main themes of the two, but nevertheless they are a bit different. The Day the Earth Stood Still was basically a cautionary tale about the treat of nuclear annihilation. It presented it in the form of an outside, alien threat, but the message was quite clear. Childhood's End was the first novel-length iteration of what has been the grand theme of Clarke's entire career: That humanity cannot achieve perfection without the intervention of some outside super-intelligence. What I find interesting about Childhood's End is that Clarke doesn't make that "perfection" seem very desirable at all. I think it also interesting that Clarke never presents these super beings as objects to be worshipped. In fact, his stories usually suggest that somewhere out there there is someone even more advanced. I don't think it's an accident that Clarke settled in Sri Lanka, because the Eastern religious philosophies are the only ones he seems to have any use for.

The Forever War is one of my favorite sci-fi novels. However, I agree with Tom that its strength lies more in its premise than in its characters. Of course, I'd have to say that with some exceptions (Dune) characterization is not one of the hallmarks of classic sci-fi. The writers who published in Astounding, e.g., Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke, were more far more concerned with plot than character, and that certainly carried over to Haldeman.

[Tom Chick]

Interesting to read a Tom Chick trashing of what's generally considered one of the classics of Sci Fi. For what it's worth, Childhood's End was published two years after The Day the Earth Stood Still was released.

Interesting. So Clarke ripped off Robert Wise? :)

To be honest, I haven't seen Day the Earth Stood Still, but the premise of aliens parking over an Earth city, speaking through one mediator, and telling humanity to shape up struck me as awfully similar.

I'm surprised to hear Childhood's End is a classic. It's awfully preachy and at times even condescending.

I picked it up because I remembered the title from a picture of a demon I saw as a kid. It was this really cool looking black winged beast in a book of aliens. Along with H.P. Lovecraft's Old One, Arthur Clarke's Overlord made quite a visual impression on me, so I remembered the title.

I knew Clarke had some Eastern predilections and was kind of amused at one point in the novel when he explains that all religions were dropped -- except Buddhism.

-Tom

[Jason Levine]

I'm surprised to hear Childhood's End is a classic. It's awfully preachy and at times even condescending.

No question that Clarke is condescending, even arrogant at times. It's probably one of the reasons that I have little use for anything he's written after Rendevous with Rama. It could also explain why I generally prefer his short stories to his novels. The Nine Billion Names of God is wonderful. But, again, it's all in the premise.

I loved the movie, 2001: A Space Odyssey, but that was because, as a visual and audio experience, in 1968 it was unlike anything that had been presented before. As for the story, well, what story? And as for characterization, HAL was the only interesting "character" in the script. And note that the overriding theme is pretty much the same as Childhood's End. On the other hand, the short story that was the inspiration for 2001, The Sentinel, is a pretty clever little story. But, again, it's all premise.

[Bub, Andrew]

I'm surprised to hear Childhood's End is a classic. It's awfully preachy and at times even condescending.


I think Childhood's End is a classic more for coming out when it did than it's own merit. It arrived at a zeitgeist nexis of blah blah blah. Billyons and Billyons of stars. It speaks to the 50's. That said, I'm not a big fan of it but I was forced to read it, along with Hardy, Gatsby, and All Quiet, in 9th Grade Lit class. Our teacher was a mad hopping British dwarf who had eclectic tastes in reading and relished inflicting them upon us.

I miss him.

Another good sci-fi that I don't remember hearing about here is The Chrysalis. I think that's a more important book to the English, but it does feature a man mutated into a Spider-Man.

[Chris Floyd]

[quote]I picked it up because I remembered the title from a picture of a demon I saw as a kid. It was this really cool looking black winged beast in a book of aliens. Along with H.P. Lovecraft's Old One, Arthur Clarke's Overlord made quite a visual impression on me, so I remembered the title.

Let me guess. Barlow's Guide?

[Tom Chick]

But, again, it's all premise.

I guess this is partly why I'm not terribly interested in sci-fi and fantasy. I don't want to sound snotty (too late!), but I think of my reading time as too valuable to squander on something that isn't more, I dunno, illuminating. I guess I look to books for insight rather than simple entertainment. I have computer games for that.

Jeeze, that sounds pretentious, doesn't it? At least I'm kinda sheepish about pretentiousness, rather than leaping in with both anti-elven feet, Geryk-style.


Let me guess. Barlow's Guide?

Hey, cool, Chris! Is that what it was? I'd love to see that picture again to see how it compares to my memory. Off to see if there's anything online...

-Tom

[Jason McCullough]

Speak not, heretic, until you've read all of Asimov's short stories.

[Jason Levine]

Speak not, heretic, until you've read all of Asimov's short stories.

Especially if you include the Foundation stories that were collected into the second book of the Foundation Trilogy (Foundation and Empire). The Mule is one of the great characters in all of popular fiction, not just SF.

[Miramon]

Forever War was great, yeah.

But if you really want to blow your mind, read the sequel. I don't think I've ever had quite such a dissociative, jarring experience (with a book) as reading Forever Free. (Note Forever Peace, despite the name, is not a sequel to Forever War, but is a completely separate book set in the near future which happens to cover some similar themes.)

I'd discuss the book, but I can't do it without spoilers, and spoiling the book ruins that jarring impact which was presumably the author's intent.

I sent some long email to Haldeman saying (in effect) "WTF, that's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen an author do, what were you thinking?" and he replied politely and at considerable length, but saying basically "heh" and not giving much away, which I thought in retrospect was kinda cool....

[Anders Hallin]

Personally I've learned more about Celtic culture than I thought possible by reading Katharine Kerr's Deverry series.
That's pretty much the only in any way quantifiable knowledge I've gained from fantasy though.

[Chris Floyd]

Let me know if you find any of those pics, Tom. I'm running a Call of Cthulhu game with the Old Ones and I consider the Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestrials (sorry, should have shared the full name to make your googling easier) image to be the definitive one.

As for pretentiousness, I guess I'm right there with you. Some of my friends make fun of me for only reading "the literary SF authors" like Bradbury and Ellison. What it comes down to for me is that plot and story are far secondary to form and composition. I like my writers to be, well, writers... not just idea men with a gimmicky concept.

[Bub, Andrew]

Chris, look for the old S. Petersen Field Guide to Cthulhu monsters. It's my favorite CoC reference book because, well, it doesn't look like one. Nice artwork too. There's a version that covers the Dreamlands as well.

[Tom Chick]

Chris, all I found was the book cover on amazon.com, but the Overlord was on it. The other ones sure brought back some memories. It's only $10, so I may get it with my next round of amazon.com orders.

So Bradbury and Ellison are more literary? I used to read a lot of Bradbury when I was a kid. Maybe I'll pick up Something Wicked This Way Comes again. Is there a better one? What's a good Ellison novel?

Actually, I haven't seen the movie in forever, but you can't go wrong with Jonathan Pryce. Wonder if it's on DVD? Yep. Into the Netflix queue...

-Tom

[Jason Levine]

What's a good Ellison novel?

I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream

Actually, I recommend his short story collection, Deathbird Stories even more. Also his anthology of other authors' (one of his own his included) stories, Dangerous Visions.

[Chris Floyd]

The Tom Sullivan illustration from the Petersen's Field Guide is a close second to Barlowe's. Those field guides are full of classic renditions of Cthulhu beasties.

[Chris Floyd]

Something Wicked... is fantastic. If you reread it, you'll notice how different it is from your average SF author's style. Bradbury's a poet at heart. Sometimes he goes too far, but most of the time his stuff is just beautiful. For his "literary" take on a more directly sci-fi subject, read The Martian Chronicles. You can't afford to miss that. Finally, The October Country is my favorite collection of his stories.

Both Bradbury and Ellison are mainly short story writers, which goes hand in hand with both the more literary style and my enjoyment of their work. As I said, plots are fine, but I'd rather read one stunning sentence than two hundred pages of dryly presented but interesting plotting. Ellison has a gajillion anthologies and it's hard to recommend one. Deathbird Stories and Angry Candy are probably the quintessential ones. Classic stories include "Repent, Harliquin, Said the Tick-Tock Man" and "Stange Wine" and Jason's aforementioned "I Have No Mouth...". If nothing else, the guy can write good titles.

[Tyjenks]

Something Wicked... is fantastic. If you reread it, you'll notice how different it is from your average SF author's style. Bradbury's a poet at heart. Sometimes he goes too far, but most of the time his stuff is just beautiful. For his "literary" take on a more directly sci-fi subject, read The Martian Chronicles.

Gosh I read both when I was young and loved them as well as the Illustrated Man collection. I imagine they stand the test of time better than many of the mediocre fantasy and sci-fi authors I read as a youth.

Do any of you remember the mini-series (I think it was) of the Martian Chronicles? I recall it being pretty decent, but again, that was some 15-20 years ago. I am sure, due to the SFX of today, it does not stand up quite as well. Any one re-watch it on video?

[Bub, Andrew]

Ah, the film version of Something Wicked This Way Comes... definitely a favorite from my youth. Robards vs. Pryce (as the lovable Mr. Dark). I really ought to try the book.

[Ben Sones]

The book is fantastic, my favorite work of Bradbury's. I like his short stories, too, but I wish he'd do the longer stuff a bit more often.

[Sparky]

Actually, I recommend his short story collection, Deathbird Stories even more.

I second that -- just re-read this a week ago, having one of those "can't sleep and have already read every single book, magazine, piece of junk mail and cereal-box nutrition label in the house" nights, and it was even better the second time.

Loved Jonathan Pryce in Something Wicked, Etc. so long ago...he hasn't done much of interest since Brazil (er, not counting his turn as The Master in "Dr. Who And The Curse Of Fatal Death"), has he?

[Bub, Andrew]

Baron Munchhausen...

He was Peron in Evita.
Yes, I'm admitting I saw that film. It was almost good. They should have cast Mandy Patinkin and Patti LuPone. Yes, I'm admitting I know the Broadway cast. I'm a fan of 3rd world political musicals, ok?

[Tom Chick]

he hasn't done much of interest since Brazil

He was really pathetic (in a good way) as the dupe in Glengarry Glen Ross. Pathetic in a more poignant way in Carrington, in which he's all but disguised behind an awful beard. Excellent performance.

And he was just plain pathetic as the villain in Tomorrow Never Dies.

-Tom

[Tyjenks]

He was really pathetic (in a good way) as the dupe in Glengarry Glen Ross.

Speaking of which. Why is this not out on DVD dammit?

Is it another quirky David Mamet thing? He thinks rehearsals are for morons, despises method acting, and does not want anything with his name on it on DVD.

[Tom Chick]

Actually, most Mamet's stuff (everything he's directed except Oleanna and Homicide) are on DVD. But I'm with you, Tyjenks: GGR (which Mamet didn't direct, BTW) really needs to be put on DVD.

-Tom