Help for Hearts of Iron III newbies

[Ryan A]

Can the Hearts of Iron veterans around here post some basic advice for a player new to the series?

[Dave Markell]

Play HOI 2 instead? Sorry, but it was such a good setup....

[Kalle]

Never start a land war in Asia.

[Dave Markell]

More seriously, the very best advice I can give is to play your first game as a non-European, non-Asian minor power. Brazil, for example, is a good choice. You'll be able to experiment with the economy, tech, and politics without the spectre of looming war. When war does break out and you choose a side (no pressure there either, wait for 1944 if you feel like it), you're big enough to see a little naval action, conduct an amphibious assault, and participate in a decent sized battle or two.

Alternatively, you can try to be aggressive in South America, though US treaties with your neighbors really complicate that approach.

[KevinC]

I second the Brazil recommendation. Be as aggressive or passive as you want. Don't be afraid to either let the AI control things or to take a hand yourself. Commanding a war sounds awfully intimidating with all the sheer number of units, supply, etc but (especially with Semper Fi) I think you'll find it surprisingly manageable.

[Tom Chick]

Ryan, play the Spanish Civil War from either side. It's the best way to get a sense for the game's mechanics.

-Tom

[Dave Markell]

Yeah, that's a solid choice too, though a riskier one. After the Civil War, if you join either the Axis or the Allies, you risk complete extinction. You also don't have the long-as-you-want-it-to-be fiddling around period that Brazil offers.

[Strato]

My first few games with HoI3 was with Spain, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Small enough to effectively keep track of what is going on, but big enough as far as armies and tech goes to get and see a bit of action.

[Ryan A]

Ok, I'm almost done reading through the "tutorials" and plan to start with one of the sides in revolutionary Spain. Any suggestions for research and build orders?

[Raife]

Research Pottery so you can get Writing. You really want to get to Currency before Germany industrializes.

[Janster]

Just had a crack at Germany with Semper Fi, I'm still drowning in Hq, and who is attached to what. I still don't understand why they added that mechanic, it just adds needless micro to a game on this level.

The rest is okay tho, I am able to build nicely from 36 to 39, and then I engaged in a war which didn't go so well cause I forgot to guard my border against France..

Also I am unable to set which leader I want to which unit..no clue why

[Mitya]

Crack the manual and then play Brazil.

[schurem]

you guys are being surprisingly unhelpful.. could it be that no-one has mastered this game on this board?

[Strato]

you guys are being surprisingly unhelpful.. could it be that no-one has mastered this game on this board?

More like a lot of people have probably been waiting for the game to be in a more playable state, with a more intelligent AI I'm presuming. Valid complaints too.

[schurem]

yea. hoi2 has a similar gestation history, didnt it?

[Soapyfrog]

Re: HQs there are a couple of things I do with them; first generally I attach 5 divisions to a single corps HQ, which is the maximum. This reduces the number of HQs you have to deal with and also means you have less officers you need to assign.

Second I attach combat brigades to the HQ unit and use it as local reserve for the corps. Usually I attach an infantry brigade and an artillery or anti-tank at least. I also do this at the army level. At Army level I will usually have 3 or 4 corps per army, leaving a bit of room to attach new units as needed.

HQ management is not all that hard, even for a large countries like Russia (which btw starts with FAR more HQs than it needs; you will find you can disband probably about a quarter of them, even accounting for your army growth, and get a slew of manpower for it). The new OOB tool makes things even easier.

[Disconnected]

Ok, I'm almost done reading through the "tutorials" and plan to start with one of the sides in revolutionary Spain. Any suggestions for research and build orders?

I don't really have any advice. I'm a newbie myself and haven't played Spain yet. That said, I imagine you need some serious counter-espionage right away, and given that most of your military is infantry, that seems to be the logical thing to focus your research on.

[Dave Markell]

yea. hoi2 has a similar gestation history, didnt it?

Somewhat, but it was more playable out of the box.

[KevinC]

you guys are being surprisingly unhelpful.. could it be that no-one has mastered this game on this board?

It's just such an open game, it's hard to say "This is what you need to do to start". There have been good recommendations made on who to play to start the game (Spain, Brazil) and reasons for it.

Really, the best way to play Paradox games is just to dive in, be completely overwhelmed, and figure it out as you go.

[Sarkus]

It's just such an open game, it's hard to say "This is what you need to do to start". There have been good recommendations made on who to play to start the game (Spain, Brazil) and reasons for it.

Really, the best way to play Paradox games is just to dive in, be completely overwhelmed, and figure it out as you go.

Pretty much. If you've played other Paradox games it's easier, but when you are starting from scratch there's just no way around reading the manual and jumping in.

For HOI3, the small country game is a good first choice, and when you are ready to play around with one of the majors the US is a good choice because you'll probably be left alone for several years. Italy also isn't too bad since you can choose to ignore the German offer of Axis membership and do your own thing.

[Greybriar]

I suggest playing as the United States to learn the basics of the game. It is isolated and there is no immediate threat by aggressive nations. Its resources are vast and permit a lot of industry and research.

On the downside, there is a lot to do and you may not wish to micromanage things or delegate responsibilities to the AI. (You may also get spoiled and not wish to play a smaller, poorer country afterward.)

[mk56]

I'll chip in with a couple of things that took me a while to really grasp even after the initial manual read.

1. Every land battle has a certain "frontage" that is the width of space available for units to fight in during a particular battle. So, when you attack an adjacent terrain you will usually only have 10 "frontage" to fight in. Each of your units take up some of that frontage, and therefore if you attack with too many units you will run out of frontage, and the remaining units will not contribute their power to the battle.

In fact, those remaining extra units will severely hurt you, as there is a stacking penalty for every unit in a battle. A typical attack will involve only 3 to 4 divisions. Any more will make your units fight worse.

2. If your armies are constantly running out of supply, you probably have too many units in the area. If there are more units in the area then the infrastructure and ports can handle, you will be consuming more supplies than you can bring to your units. Units without any supply cannot fight.

3. Some good early techs are in the Industry panel. There are techs to improve your IC, your IC efficiency (making it cost less IC to build things), techs to improve your production of oil, raw materials, etc., and techs to improve your leadership and manpower.

Also don't forget the last three technology panels, Land, Naval, and Air. These contain the doctrines you research to make your units fight better. Pick the ones for units you intend to focus on.


I hope this is kind of what you were looking for!

[schurem]

now we're talking!

[Janster]

I really wish there was a move all units in corp to destination button...cause I suck at having to play a game of find the unit.

[Johan A]

I really wish there was a move all units in corp to destination button...cause I suck at having to play a game of find the unit.

Why not select all in the corp then? there's a button for it when a hq is selected.

[moromete]

Semper Fi makes it pretty clear where all units attached to one corp are. And you can select the HQ and then click just above the list of the divisions (there's a grey area there that's clickable) attached to select them all the HQ and give them a move order.

[mk56]

now we're talking!

Ha! Though that does not seem to be what he was looking for?

Oh, and you can also select an HQ with all the other HQs/divisions below it in the hierarchy by ctrl-clicking the HQ.

[Calistas]

Fir the next 5-hours-or-so you can get both HOI3 and the Expansion for $17us. That was low enough for me to pull the trigger as a couple of friends plan on trying an axis multiplayer game.

[Calistas]

Where do I get the strategy guides for registered users? It's funny that the best links are for torrent sites... search engine fail, Paradox!

[schurem]

you register at their boards with your game serial. now you get access to the strat guides and other goodies.

[Greybriar]

Where do I get the strategy guides for registered users? It's funny that the best links are for torrent sites... search engine fail, Paradox!

Once you've registered your game as schurem mentioned, you can access the HoI3 - FAQ (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=430) forum. There you will find the Supply Guide, Strategic Maps & Data, Province List, HOI 3 Reference Card, Strategy Guide, Strategy Guide Supplement, Counters Guide, Manual, Quickstart Guide and more.

[Calistas]

Ok, cool, ta. Been trying to read the manual on my iPhone 3G via the "File Sharing" app and damn if the app can't handle 15mb files - it crashes within a minute.

[Calistas]

*sigh* I have a bug that results in weird blocky borders. No idea why. My googles suggest that this was an "ATI bug" "fixed" in patch 1.4.... Or not. Bugger bugger bugger.

[Calistas]

.....oh man. I have been reintroduced to BSOD. Haven't seen those in months. God damn you Paradox.

[Lum]

HOI3 is one expansion away from being good. Right now it's at 'playable'.

[Calistas]

Does semper fi have a specific manual or has the original manual been updated? I have refused to play until I have read all the documentation!

[mk56]

Does semper fi have a specific manual or has the original manual been updated? I have refused to play until I have read all the documentation!

As you probably know Semper Fi is only available as a download. It does come with a 34 page pdf doc manual. I didn't read it when I bought it, so I can't give an opinion as to how good the manual is.

[Calistas]

I have SF from Steam and when you buy it there it doesn't break out SF and the manual loads straight into the HOI3 manual. Jeez. Makes me paranoid that I don't even own SF but I am sure it comes this way...

*Edit* Oh, I do. When I hit play in Steam I can select SF and hit play and off it goes. Good to know. Now to dig up the SF manual elsewhere.

*Edit* *Edit* Registered my games with Paradox, still don't see the SF manual on the forum Hmm... Slowly getting it off a torrent site instead.

[zombo77]

It's also in your steamapps\common\hearts of iron 3 directory.

[Calistas]

......... Yeah. So it is :)

[Soapyfrog]

Not much of a manual though. Couldn't find anywhere in there the changes to the Non-Aggression Pact system. You'd think that would have been important to know.

[KevinC]

Not much of a manual though. Couldn't find anywhere in there the changes to the Non-Aggression Pact system. You'd think that would have been important to know.

From the Paradox forums, for Germany/USSR, this is how it works. Note that right now it's in 9 month stages, but in the beta patch they've changed this to 6 months.

Stage 1. Not possible to declare war
Stage 2. possible but only if you have twice the troops on the german/russian border
Stage 3. Possible with at least same strength (same number of Divisions)
Stage 4. Possible now with at least having 50% of the enemy Divisions.
Stage 5. Always possible to declare war.

[glangmead]

I'm looking to dust off my copy of HOI3 and finally learn the game. Am I unwise to play it without getting Semper Fi first? As an aside, from all the complaints I read about their games, and how it takes a long time to patch them into goodness, I can't help but feel like paying for these expansions, which also double as patches in their own right, disincentivize Paradox from changing their habits. But who am I to talk, between HOI2 and HOI3 I've had this game on my hard drive for 4 or 5 years without taking the plunge!

[Otagan]

Am I unwise to play it without getting Semper Fi first?
Extremely. The improvements of Semper Fi, casting aside any concerns you may have about the Paradox business model, are absolutely critical.

[Dave Markell]

As an aside, from all the complaints I read about their games, and how it takes a long time to patch them into goodness, I can't help but feel like paying for these expansions, which also double as patches in their own right, disincentivize Paradox from changing their habits.

Yes and no. If you buy their games and expansions when they are first released, sure, you subsidize what I see as a very bad habit. I've been through the mill before, though, so I never buy a Paradox title at release. Instead, I wait for at least the first paid expansion and the inevitable deals that can be found months or years down the road. Why suffer through a buggy full priced base game and then angrily buy the expansion necessary to fix its flaws? Be patient and pay less for both combined than the initial retail price.

[glangmead]

Yes and no. If you buy their games and expansions when they are first released, sure, you subsidize what I see as a very bad habit. I've been through the mill before, though, so I never buy a Paradox title at release. Instead, I wait for at least the first paid expansion and the inevitable deals that can be found months or years down the road. Why suffer through a buggy full priced base game and then angrily buy the expansion necessary to fix its flaws? Be patient and pay less for both combined than the initial retail price.

You're very right, and in fact I think I paid $5 for HOI3. Not because I am wise but because I know my history, and the low historical odds of me getting a lot of money's worth from it. But being a Mac user, I have trouble finding the expansions on sale. So in summary I shouldn't complain. But if you are listening, Paradox, I'd pay $50 for a slick iPad version of either HOI or EU. I swear an HOI was in the works at some point, there was a press release.

[Greybriar]

I'm looking to dust off my copy of HOI3 and finally learn the game. Am I unwise to play it without getting Semper Fi first?....

Semper Fi is the latest and greatest expansion/patch for Hearts of Iron III. It improved the game a lot. I purchased it when it was on sale. I see that there is a Mac version (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-HOI3SFMAC/hearts-of-iron-3-semper-fi-mac) available from GamersGate.

There is another HoI3 expansion in the works: For The Motherland (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?526770-For-The-Motherland-Developer-Diaries). The ideal time to buy the entire series would be when there is the inevitable HoI3 compilation which will include HoI3, its expansions, and all its DLC (mostly graphics packs (http://www.gamersgate.com/DDB-HOI3CP/hearts-of-iron-3-complete-pack-bundle)). But that will be awhile, particularly for the Mac.

It's your call. Either spring for it with Semper Fi and add the next expansion when it is released or wait for a compilation that may take years to materialize. Or skip it altogether.

[glangmead]

I'd definitely prefer to play with Semper Fi since everyone has made it clear that it's a better game that way. One problem with being a Mac user though, is that while the Paradox games do eventually make their way onto Steam, the expansions don't always seem to appear there. So HOI3 is on Steam but Semper Fi is not. EU3 complete is on Steam but Heir to the Throne and Divine Wind are not. When a Paradox game does appear, it's great because one purchase gets you both platforms.

To be honest, I don't fully understand why Virtual Programming (the outfit currently charged with porting all the Paradox titles and expansions) would put anything on Steam, since the price becomes coupled to the Windows price, and those are so often cut into the single digits, I don't know how they make any money from it. If they did the ports faster, so they were present during the early (expensive) stages, then that would make more sense. But instead the ports are only ready many months later, when the Windows version is already ready for a steep cut. Also, how does Steam reimburse two companies (Paradox and VP) for one purchase? I worry because I care -- I'd like more games to appear on the Mac. It's a trend that's very happily on the rise, but on the strategy side it's happening slowly. Next VP is going to port AGEOD's American Civil War (citation: VP's twitter feed), so I'm excited about that.

[Piperfan]

EU3 complete is on Steam but Heir to the Throne and Divine Wind are not.

In case you want to buy Divine Wind and Heir to the Throne, on Steam. They are $9.99 each.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/25808/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/25806/

[Mitya]

In case you want to buy Divine Wind and Heir to the Throne, on Steam. They are $9.99 each.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/25808/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/25806/


Don't do that. Beta patches for Paradox games, which you can get from the Tech Support section for the game's forum after registering your game on forum.paradoxplaza.com, are most of the time necessary to play the game. They don't work with the Steam version. More importantly, if you buy the expansions on Steam you can't uninstall them, since they're treated as DLC, and can't use mods or any other content made for earlier expansions.

Not that the Mac versions are on steam anyway.

[Piperfan]

Totally different from "Not even available on Steam". And since it sounded like he might be interested in getting the Steam version, I posted.

We are pretty far off topic though. Can you see the original topic? I can't really... oh! It's over there...

[Soapyfrog]

Beta patches for Paradox games work fine with Steam versions.

[deccan]

I believe that HOI3 doesn't use any DRM at all, even on Steam, so there shouldn't be any issues with mods or non-Steam patches. For example, I can and do run HOI3 directly from my Steam folder, even though the service itself isn't connected or running.

[Sarkus]

Beta patches for Paradox games work fine with Steam versions.

This. I have several Paradox games on Steam and have had no issues when trying beta patches.

[Talorc]

Ok, so I got HOI3 super complete as part of a Paradox Pack on sale. It has the latest expansion, for the motherland.

I seem to enjoy HOI3/HOI2 more as a concept and reading excellent AAR's than actually playing it, but want to have another go.

1. Is the Spanish Civil war still a good place to start?
2. How about starting with Dies Irae Gotterdamerung? Or is that for advanced German players only?
3. Any other starting tips?

[Jajusha]

Ok, so I got HOI3 super complete as part of a Paradox Pack on sale. It has the latest expansion, for the motherland.

I seem to enjoy HOI3/HOI2 more as a concept and reading excellent AAR's than actually playing it, but want to have another go.

1. Is the Spanish Civil war still a good place to start?
2. How about starting with Dies Irae Gotterdamerung? Or is that for advanced German players only?
3. Any other starting tips?

1. Sure! If you like little no production, limited air war and a bit of a messy Command chain. I recomend 39 ger vs poland for you to really get the feel of the game.
2. Dies Irae, while beutifull, will break your bones, grind them and feed them to its soviet overlord. Quite a bit harder then original HOI3 FTM.
3. As germany, avoid all naval except subs. Invest in interceptors. Don't do any trade that includes convoys (do land trade only, SOV and IT are your main trade partners). Look at the terrain when your planning an offensive and use units accordingly.

[uncle briggs]

I got HoI3 Complete from Amazon a while back in their sale. It does not register on steam. The Finest Hour expansion is on sale on steam. Will it work with the Amazon version?

[Otagan]

No, the Steam version will require Steam's HOI Collection.

[uncle briggs]

poop.

[Greybriar]

For the next ~17 hours you can buy the Hearts of Iron 3 Collection for Steam for $6.24 (http://store.steampowered.com/sub/12375/) and (as you are already aware) its Their Finest Hour expansion for $2.49 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/214986/?snr=1_4_4__106_2). If I wanted to play Hearts of Iron III on Steam, I'd spring for both of them.