Qt3 Games Podcast: Enidigm and Empire: Total War

[Tom Chick]

Although Enidigm didn't want to divulge any personal information about himself, he did reveal a second pseudonym. Which makes him twice as mysterious! He did, however, have plenty to say about the Total War series (http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2010/06/05/qt3-games-podcast-enidigm-and-empire-total-war/). Plus we get in a bit of Red Dead Redemption talk.

Next week: Jonathan Crane and System Shock...

[ThornFalconeye]

Excellent! Empire has always been a mystery to me, as I have played only two naval battles in around 70 hours of play.

[Abilio Carvalho]

Tom, Wings of Prey has take off and landing as secondary objectives in the missions, and they're optional.

[Og Dai]

Liked that, thanks.

Re. Rockstar
Didn't you guys play TBoGT? You definitely should if you haven't and if you have you should have noticed that they got rid of the issues with the activity-lacking city life from GTAIV. Oh and it is your fault to use fast travel in RDR, they thought of the rather mainstreamed audience I guess.

I also don't see that Rockstar would be lacking evolutionary tendencies.

That's rather true for the CA.

[Og Dai]

So there is no actual discussion on the podcasts? Maybe there is a separate spot to discuss and anatomize the content somewhere else on QT3?

Listening only is kinda boring.

[jellyfish]

I think that is what this thread is for.

[Abilio Carvalho]

it is. And the podcast was cool, but I'm guessing a couple things conspired to make this one harder to discuss. Enidigm didn't talk about himself, and I guess a lot of people still have a grudge against Empire.

Nevertheless, it was an interesting discussion, Enidigm and Tom. Cheers.

[Nithrakis]

I enjoyed the podcast. I haven't been able to get into Empire: Total War at all so it was interesting to hear what Enidigm had to say about it simply because he is an Empire fan.

For myself, I'm a much bigger fan of the two Medieval games and not such a big fan of Rome. I haven't played Shogun at all.

[Og Dai]

I touched it with a little stick...and it didn't move.


And the podcast was cool, but I'm guessing a couple things conspired to make this one harder to discuss.

The comment about Rockstar being trapped in an anti-evolutionary-timeloop would have been generated 3.5 billion replies on gaf I'm sure. So not that hard to discuss really...but there is a vital need to rebite when getting bitten.

Otherwise no discussion will ever happen obviously.

I guess I'd call it a comment-only thread.


and I guess a lot of people still have a grudge against Empire.

Where is all the hate then?

[mtkafka]

i know people have an issue with AI in games like empire total war, but the last few patches have made ETW totally playable. plus theres supposedly some mods that make the AI aggresive and challenging. i installed a darth mod, but havent really played it yet, but ppl on the total war forums say it makes the game much better.

what i like most about empire total war is that it really is a beautiful looking game.... probably the best i've seen in a strategy game. sometimes that IS enough to play a brief skirmish and battle... just to experience it (kind of like playing GTA IV or ARMA II).

and there is a large TW player base, same as the mount and blade fanbase, that loves these games and love to mod it. part of the reason to get ETW (and medieval/rome) is that ppl still play it and there's tons of mods.

[Bahimiron]

The comment about Rockstar being trapped in an anti-evolutionary-timeloop would have been generated 3.5 billion replies on gaf I'm sure.

Thank God we're not GAF.

The discussion about Rockstar's game design has occured several times. In appropriate threads like the GTA4 and RDR threads, in inappropriate threads like Saints Row 2 and the Bargain Thread. It's entirely possible that the Venn diagram showing people who care to argue about that and people excited enough to listen to a podcast about E:TW to DL it within the first few days is a lemniscate.

[mrmolecule88]

The whole Empire mods scene really just makes me choke up with bile. Looking back on the past few games, you can find ambitious, total-conversion, game-changing mods with lots of differences from the original game. For Empire? All they have are uniform changes and AI fixes. That's bullshit.

[Enidigm]

I hope i wasn't too incoherent. I was getting pretty tired by the end of the podcast...

The thing about Empire is that it's basically a great game, more or less, saddled with three burdens; unrealized potential, an AI on release that was incompetent and even sometimes broken, and a player base strung out by false promises of improvement and in whose memory past games were better than they really were.

I find it funny that so many like Rome when Rome was the least serious of the series; it's very much a Gladiator the Movie style game. But what works is that these silly contrivances are both fun, and add depth to the strategic game. Splitting Rome into three factions whose collision is inevitable is stupidly ahistoric - but as a gameplay conceit, it works wonderfully well. Worshiping or or another Greco-Roman god allows you to convey a bonus to one or another city, which again is stupid strictly speaking - but it works as a gameplay shorthand for cultural differences.

Empire adds similar Europa Universalis-esque details... but these details aren't quite as fun. Changing one minister for another is necessary thing, and it adds value to the good ones when you find them or when they die; but it's an emotionless, boring choice, with no ramifications one way or another, no way a minister directs your Empire one way or another, it's just dumb luck getting a decent bonus or a big bonus, cross your fingers. But you can see that they're really trying to make a different game, that the basic game is starting to creak around the seams in this more modern age and the development of national governments, bureaucracies, ect.

The naval game of Empire shocks me with the level of graphical detail, and the relative boringness of it all. It feels like there is something great to be revealed in the uncut block of marble, waiting for the right artist to reveal it. The naval game has some fantastic potential.

Empire's strategic game is the most complex and sophisticated of any of the Total War games thus far released; the experience of playing the different nations can be wildly different, which is fun in and of itself. Trying to expand on three different strategic fronts is not at all easy, and depending upon your starting position, not at all an easy thing. You might be able to colonize America as the Ottomans by building a fleet out of Persia and sailing all the way around; but its very, very difficult to afford this and hold off all the other enemies at the same time. It's really the depth of gameplay that the strategic map affords that impresses me about Empire. Unfortunately, the AI cannot keep up.

[Razgon]

The whole Empire mods scene really just makes me choke up with bile. Looking back on the past few games, you can find ambitious, total-conversion, game-changing mods with lots of differences from the original game. For Empire? All they have are uniform changes and AI fixes. That's bullshit.

Perhaps no-one cared enough to try and do anything with it? Its a nice tell-tale sign of how fans reacted to the game

[mrmolecule88]

Perhaps no-one cared enough to try and do anything with it? Its a nice tell-tale sign of how fans reacted to the game

I'm sure that had something to do with it, but I heard pretty universally that the mod tools given to the people were simply nothing nearly as useful as the other games.

[Og Dai]

It's entirely possible that the Venn diagram showing people who care to argue about that and people excited enough to listen to a podcast about E:TW to DL it within the first few days is a lemniscate.

Reasonable analysis. To be honest I found the R* part more interesting than the part about ETW. It might have been somewhat okay (but still debatable), if they'd only blamed R* North, but talking about R* in its entirety?

Crazy stuff.

Ping Pong?
The Warriors?
Chinatown Wars?
Manhunt?
RDR?