The Humble Indie Bundle - Name your price for five indie games

[tromik]

The Humble Indie Bundle (http://www.wolfire.com/humble) - Name your price for five indie games while supporting Child's Play and the EFF.

I always seem to miss these great little indie game packs. Not this time!

[Adree]

Lugaru HD hahahaha. Although it is a sort of cool game but c'mon don't justify your low res by calling it "HD".

[Angrycoder]

Lugaru HD hahahaha. Although it is a sort of cool game but c'mon don't justify your low res by calling it "HD".

Hey look! Devs are being cool and giving away their shit and contributing to charity!

I know how I'll contribute, I'll be an ass!

[intruder]

I just bought it.
I had all game besides Lugaru already but I wanted a DRM free copy of Aquaria (mine was on Steam).

Nice little thing + some goes to charity. :)

[Omniscia]

Is Lugaru that weird bunny fighter?

[Pogo]

Oh hey, Penumbra! I liked the demo, even if the combat was kinda of odd. I'm definitely gonna chip in for that.

[bandidoquest]

I'm so glad seeing that people are really supporting their idea. Almost $150k already in one day. Really impressive and I hope to see similar things in the future.

[Acid]

This is pure win. I can't afford to offer them a fair price, but I'm twittering and facebooking the offer.

[dfrandsen]

They also added Samorost 2 to the bundle - those who already purchased the bundle will also get access to it.

[sinfony]

People are pirating (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/humble-bundle-gives-pirates-what-they-want-gets-ripped-off.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) the Humble Indie Bundle. Tell me again about how piracy is the result of DRM and high prices?

[intruder]

It was posted into 4Chan + they use no download protection at all (direct links).
Edited to point out that there are a lot of assholes at 4 Chan (in case someone didn't know already).
It's their definition of fun.

Could have put it on Filefront to save bandwidth costs... :p

[McKnight]

People are pirating (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/humble-bundle-gives-pirates-what-they-want-gets-ripped-off.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) the Humble Indie Bundle. Tell me again about how piracy is the result of DRM and high prices?

You know I was going to talk about how it's technically not piracy if the person pays zero, it says name your own price after all. $0 is still a price. But I realised I don't care enough to support this view, especially due to the charity donation angle. The whole piracy debate has been done to death, especially on this board and I just don't have the heart anymore.

On the other hand the article presents some genuinely interesting data and this whole experiment creates a data point would allow someone to more accurately measure piracy rates.

[Paul_cze]

When considering any kind of DRM, we have to ask ourselves, "How many legitimate users is it ok to inconvenience in order to reduce piracy?" The answer should be none.

- love it

[BobJustBob]

People are pirating (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/humble-bundle-gives-pirates-what-they-want-gets-ripped-off.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) the Humble Indie Bundle. Tell me again about how piracy is the result of DRM and high prices?

I'm giving you this post for free but will accept donations. If you don't donate you're a pirate.

[Dave Perkins]

I'm so glad seeing that people are really supporting their idea. Almost $150k already in one day. Really impressive and I hope to see similar things in the future.

They're up to $700,000+ from 80,000 people!

BTW, some of the so-called 'pirates' may simply be people who were given the bundle as a gift. I can imagine people paying, say, $50 and then telling 5 of their friends to go grab these games. Those people would be counted as pirates.

[intruder]

There are more things to consider:

1. People that bought the bundle and have dynamic IPs.
-> My ISP is changing my IP every 24 hours

2. People that downloaded part of it from somewhere else (work for example) or re-download from somewhere else to have a backup in case of hd crash
(I often download digital purchases again at work to have them on my laptop there as a backup outside of my home in worst case)

3. People that downloaded it at another location to install it on their machine there (at girlfriend / at parents' house / at work). Yes sure they could have put it on a USB stick but why bother when they can re-download them with one click.

4. Not sure if downloading all 3 versions (Windows / Mac / Linux) caused some troubles. I did download them all because well I could and maybe in the future I will have a Mac or finally switch to Linux if MS screws up.

5. On the other hand multiple buyers might appear as one IP due to NAT though this is pretty uncommon in homes apart from student homes yet possible. Of course those downloads could also be done from a single company where multiple buyers work.

So it's a bit murky to base those numbers simply on server logs.

[Dave Perkins]

They shoulda just had a checkbox: Are you pirating this bundle?

[krayzkrok]

If you gave it away for free, some people would still pirate it. Creatures of habit.

[mono]

Less important than how many people pirate, is how much money they make. At 700K, if you assume overall a 50/50 developer/charity split, that's still = 70k per developer thus far on this promotion. For indie developers peddling their games long after their initial release, that ain't a bad haul.

[TurinTur]

I can imagine the case of someone who post in a forum / to a friend the links, and say, "Hey try these games, some of them are pretty good!".

It's not like they pirate the games with some evil intent ("bwahahah! i am pirating an already free product!!"), for most people the fact they are doing something illegal or not, if it's ethical or unethical... it just doesn't register to them. They don't care.

[Spoit]

And really, the way that some people talk about it, anything under 90% piracy is a major triumph.

[BobJustBob]

Thus far I have not received any donations for my post. This thread has a 100% piracy rate.

[cliffski]

Dont forget that there are processing fees. I'm not sure what they are, but if you are selling a product where a lot of people are paying small amounts, then a bigger chunk of the total taken goes to the payment processor than normal.
Plus all of those $0.01 donations dont' even register, its all fees.
Still an enormous pile of cash in indie terms though.

[intruder]

Thus far I have not received any donations for my post. This thread has a 100% piracy rate.


Well it has been released:



[xxx] New in Releases/Other:
05-10-10 QT.3.Humble.Indie.Bundle.Post.by.BobJustBob.Rip - SKIDROW [xx/xx] [xxx]

Out of the nfo:
Protection: Sealed Plastic Sleeve


Use some Ubi Launcher next time for 0day protection noob! :p

[Sebmojo]

Less important than how many people pirate, is how much money they make. At 700K, if you assume overall a 50/50 developer/charity split, that's still = 70k per developer thus far on this promotion. For indie developers peddling their games long after their initial release, that ain't a bad haul.

Exactly.

This drove me crazy about the Radiohead In Rainbows experiment - some people were all 'OMG 80% OF PEOPLE PAID NOTHING OMG FAILURE DON'T THEY LOOK STUPID NOW OMG' but... they made millions. Then went on to have a massively selling album that topped the charts for ages and made basquillions of money the usual way.

I think there's something fundamental there actually - the emotional component of content creators reaction to their work being ripped off. Ubisoft, f'rex. You can't tell me that's a calm rational business decision.

[Qmanol]

I must say, I felt bad about only paying $2, but I have $15 to get through the rest of the week on. So... yeah.

[Razgon]

I typed -20 dollars, but that didnt work...thought I'd figured out some good scheme here!

Anyways, the idea is awesome, hope it works out and is worth it for others so that the idea takes!

[Netriak]

Less important than how many people pirate, is how much money they make. At 700K, if you assume overall a 50/50 developer/charity split, that's still = 70k per developer thus far on this promotion. For indie developers peddling their games long after their initial release, that ain't a bad haul.


And the developers getting only 50 percent is a very low assumption. Most people will use the default equal split option, I think, which splits the money equally between all 7 parties, resulting in a 70/30 split for developers/charity. Also, with the count already at 900k, one 7th part of that is already 128k. Which is quite impressive.

[bandidoquest]

This is great, not only did they raise 1MM but some of the games will become open source.

[Hanacker]

And the developers getting only 50 percent is a very low assumption. Most people will use the default equal split option, I think, which splits the money equally between all 7 parties, resulting in a 70/30 split for developers/charity. Also, with the count already at 900k, one 7th part of that is already 128k. Which is quite impressive.

Now I'm really curious how the money ended getting split up. Doubt they'll ever reveal that, though.

[Netriak]

Now I'm really curious how the money ended getting split up. Doubt they'll ever reveal that, though.
They did reveal it, actually, just a few hours ago. Go to the webpage of the bundle, and on the top is a new newspost mentioning the exact percentage to charity: 30.97%. Very close to the 30% I mentioned as probable which I based on the fact that their default split is 2/7th for charity.

So every developer has gotten, after transaction fees, 137672$.
Childs play got 157412$, and eff got 151664$.

[McKnight]

Those are some pretty phenomenal numbers, the Dev's should be proud of themselves. Not only making a ridiculous sum of money for some games that are well passed their release date but also making a bucket load of money for charity.

It's a win win really.

[bandidoquest]

Nothing to see here, I answered Hanacker without seeing the 2nd page, sorry!

[Dave Perkins]

I'm gonna go with win win win, McKnight.

[WarrenM]

Definitely awesome but ... only 30% is going to charity? Does that seem low to anyone else? If they've raised over a million, they should up that percentage a little IMO.

[lesslucid]

Definitely awesome but ... only 30% is going to charity? Does that seem low to anyone else? If they've raised over a million, they should up that percentage a little IMO.

The people who buy the package choose their own allocation of the percentages. If you want to give 100% of what you pay to charity, it's your call.

[WarrenM]

Oh OK, never mind then!

[Netriak]

Definitely awesome but ... only 30% is going to charity? Does that seem low to anyone else? If they've raised over a million, they should up that percentage a little IMO.

No, they shouldn't. The default 'split evenly' option they encouraged people to use results in 28.6% to charity, or exactly 2/7th. Thus that is the percentage they find fair. Almost 31% is higher then that, so they are hardly going to find the percentage low. Furthermore, they gave every donater the ability to choose the own custom distribution, in case they disagreed with the default distribution.
What more could one ask for? They have been more than fair.

[Sneaky]

Man, I didn't know Aquaria was this much fun (spent 18 hours total playing it). Glad I decided to buy the bundle although I already owned two of the games in it.

[TurinTur]

Real time stats
http://www.wolfire.com/humble/stats

[Netriak]

The people who buy the package choose their own allocation of the percentages.
Actually, they 'can' choose their own allocation. In reality, most people probably chose the fair sounding 'split equally' option, resulting in a percentage to charity very close the default allocation percentage,
As such, while they technically gave the people full freedom on how to distribute the money, in practice they greatly influenced the outcome.
If they had chosen as default an equally fair sounding 50/50 split option between developers and charity, the percentage to charity would almost certainly have been much closer to 50% than to 30%.
If there had been only one charity, the same split equally calculation would result in only 1/6th going to charity, which would probably result in a final charity percentage of about 20%.

[Disconnected]

Do anyone know how much time & money got sunk into developing the games?

[tromik]

Do anyone know how much time & money got sunk into developing the games?
That's all Bobby Kotick is interested in.

[Disconnected]

That's all Bobby Kotick is interested in.

Unless we're talking people he could sue, cheat & screw I suspect it's too little money for him to take an interest.

Personally I was more interested in trying to figure out just how likely it is to earn a living making games, how much of a living it actually is, and how many years it takes to reach that point.

[lesslucid]

Unless we're talking people he could sue, cheat & screw I suspect it's too little money for him to take an interest.

Personally I was more interested in trying to figure out just how likely it is to earn a living making games, how much of a living it actually is, and how many years it takes to reach that point.

The problem is, you can't just divide the money World of Goo has earned by the hours that went into it and call that the default average hourly pay of developing indie games. Because WoG is way, way more successful than the average indie game. I think the answer to, "could I make a living doing this?" is probably, "it's a lottery, but if you're super talented and determined, you've a half-decent chance to get there eventually." But don't just look at the success stories - browse around for some of the many, many indie games that didn't make moneyhats for their creators before you jump in with both feet.

[Jonathan Blow]

The thing is, it's not *that* much of a lottery, because success in indie games is still heavily correlated with quality.

So you just have to be able to make a good game. Which, admittedly, is a huge amount of work, and many people who think they can make a "good game" often don't end up doing so (by popular consensus). So it's tricky.

[intruder]

The thing is, it's not *that* much of a lottery, because success in indie games is still heavily correlated with quality.

So you just have to be able to make a good game. Which, admittedly, is a huge amount of work, and many people who think they can make a "good game" often don't end up doing so (by popular consensus). So it's tricky.

Exactly!
Sometimes I see "Support Indies!" as bullet point of features of a game.
I'm more than willing to support good indie games BUT I won't buy all of them just because I want the indie scene to prosper.
There has to be some quality as well.

[cliffski]

The thing is, it's not *that* much of a lottery, because success in indie games is still heavily correlated with quality.


This is so true. There is a totally linear relationship between how much my games have sold, and how good each one has been. I think that relationship is a bit clearer with indie games, versus AAA titles, because sometimes AAA stuff can get by on hype and total saturation marketing and coverage, whereas indie games tend to sell almost entirely on word of mouth and the conversion rate of a demo. It's hard to do well with either of those unless the game is really good.

[steve]

Sometimes I see "Support Indies!" as bullet point of features of a game. I'm more than willing to support good indie games BUT I won't buy all of them just because I want the indie scene to prosper. There has to be some quality as well.
Then there's "what's an indie?"

I work for an independent developer that sometimes self-funds and sometimes works with publishers. Did people say, "buy Demigod to support indies!"? World of Goo and Supreme Commander 2 have the same distribution methods, including console versions, yet there's none of this grassroots support for developers that appear less like "cool indies." Maybe it's just PR, I dunno.

[intruder]

I recall "Introversion" trying to play this card when "Multiwinia" didn't sell as well as they thought.

And today I saw this (http://store.steampowered.com/app/49800/) on Steam:



Key Features:

18 Epic levels & 8 Powerful Guns
Single Player Campaign and 4 person Co-Op Multiplayer modes
Extra 'Into The Breach' Survival Mode
Time of Day & Weather Effects
Support Indie Development!


Rubbed me the wrong way.

[lesslucid]

The thing is, it's not *that* much of a lottery, because success in indie games is still heavily correlated with quality.

So you just have to be able to make a good game. Which, admittedly, is a huge amount of work, and many people who think they can make a "good game" often don't end up doing so (by popular consensus). So it's tricky.

I guess the thing is, you wouldn't even bother trying to make a game yourself unless you were absolutely convinced that it was going to be a great game. There's a problem with certain kinds of self-perception, though: 98% of people think they are above-average as drivers, and only half of those people can be right. Feeling certain your game is going to be fantastic shouldn't be taken as a reliable indication that in reality it will be. I'm not saying a prospective developer should assume their game will suck, just that planning on the basis that your first game is going to deliver the kind of sales that only the most successful games do may be unrealistic.

[checker]

I'm not saying a prospective developer should assume their game will suck, just that planning on the basis that your first game is going to deliver the kind of sales that only the most successful games do may be unrealistic.

The second most important characteristic you can have as a creative person is the ability to open-mindedly criticize your own work and listen to the criticism of others, so yes, if you can't accurately figure out where you are on the "suck <-> rock" axis, then you're hosed, but you were already hosed you just didn't know it. Indie games make for a very tight feedback loop between your talent and drive and your level of success. There is no low pass filter over everything like at a bigger company. This is scary, but cool.

The first most important characteristic is an ability to keep your ass in the chair and finish the game. This is actually where most indie games fail, I think.

Chris "I am a shitty driver, but at least I know it" Hecker

[Anders Hallin]

This is so true. There is a totally linear relationship between how much my games have sold, and how good each one has been. I think that relationship is a bit clearer with indie games, versus AAA titles, because sometimes AAA stuff can get by on hype and total saturation marketing and coverage, whereas indie games tend to sell almost entirely on word of mouth and the conversion rate of a demo. It's hard to do well with either of those unless the game is really good.
Speaking of successful indie developers, do you (or Jon Blow, for that matter) get many offers from established game developers?

[cliffski]

Speaking of successful indie developers, do you (or Jon Blow, for that matter) get many offers from established game developers?

what sort of offers? you mean employment?
I am *difficult* as an employee I suspect :D.

I think if you are doing well enough as an indie dev for people to know about you, then most developers would know they are likely to not hold much attraction in terms of employment.

For the record, I made and released and sold about 6 games before I made anything more than beer money.
Some of them really suck.

[Jonathan Blow]

There is also this hidden assumption in the question that being an indie is some kind of milestone on the path to working for a bigger developer. That's not how it is at all.

Usually, people who are independent just want to do their own thing, which they just are not going to be able to do working in the mainstream. Often, lately especially, the flow goes the other way -- people work for mainstream developers for a while, then quit to go indie once they have a bunch of contacts and have learned a lot about how to make games.

[Disconnected]

The thing is, it's not *that* much of a lottery, because success in indie games is still heavily correlated with quality.

So you just have to be able to make a good game. Which, admittedly, is a huge amount of work, and many people who think they can make a "good game" often don't end up doing so (by popular consensus). So it's tricky.

I guess it's not quite the crazy undertaking I thought it was. Thanks for the answers everyone.

[krayzkrok]

Usually, people who are independent just want to do their own thing, which they just are not going to be able to do working in the mainstream. Often, lately especially, the flow goes the other way -- people work for mainstream developers for a while, then quit to go indie once they have a bunch of contacts and have learned a lot about how to make games.

That's typical of any profession - you're running your own independent business, instead of working for The Man. It has a lot of appeal, but it also has insecurity and risk. That's what attracts a lot of people to it, once they have the skills to pull it off. A few get scared off and go and get job security, but once you've tasted freedom it's hard to go back.

[Jonathan Blow]

Well, there's also the fact that in the game industry, larger developers do not exactly offer job security, either.

[krayzkrok]

Very true. Mind you these days, who does?

[checker]

Well, there's also the fact that in the game industry, larger developers do not exactly offer job security, either.

I resemble that remark.

Chris

[Anders Hallin]

There is also this hidden assumption in the question that being an indie is some kind of milestone on the path to working for a bigger developer. That's not how it is at all.
Oh, I know very well that cliffski has worked at some very prestigious firms before, and I also remember him writing that he wouldn't give up the Indie life for anything, I just wanted to know if there were many attempts.

[Jonathan Blow]

I have gotten a couple of job offers; not many.

[Catshade]

Reposting this from bargain thread:

An update to an old deal: Your Humble Indie Bundle can now be activated on Steam; Check the Wolfire guys blog for more information. And apparently they're going to do Humble Indie Bundle 2 this holiday...

[Audiosprite]

Looking forward to the HB2!

[Vesper]

Thanks for the tip on Steam activation. Very cool.

[Telefrog]

Agreed. Super cool move.

[seventimessix]

Just got my activation e-mail, hooray!

[Kurina]

According to The Escapist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/106100-Get-Into-the-Holiday-Spirit-With-the-Humble-Indie-Bundle-2), the new bundle will be:

Braid (http://braid-game.com/)
Cortex Command (http://www.datarealms.com/games.php)
Machinarium (http://machinarium.net/demo/)
Osmos (http://www.hemispheregames.com/osmos/)
Revenge of the Titans (http://www.puppygames.net/revenge-of-the-titans/)

Edit: Nevermind, it's up now (http://www.humblebundle.com/) actually.

[delirium]

Yay, Mac-compatible games. I've been looking for some new stuff to install on my Mac. Thanks for the heads up.

[Telefrog]

They must be getting slammed. I keep getting errors when I try to check out.

[JDSIDD]

Anybody played Cortex Command or Revenge of the Titans? Those are the two that look good to me but I don't know much about them. Revenge looks suspiciously like a tower defense game, which I generally don't like but it doesn't seem to be the conveyor belt type so maybe it'll be fun.

[Eduardo X]

I already own two of these, Braid and Cortex Command. The latter is an unpolished diamond, an amazing and deep game locked in a seemingly endless development cycle. I really hope this exposure gives the developer enough money to crank out a new version or even a final version.

[JD]

I already have four of the games, but it's impossible to resist. Also know a few people who might appreciate a gift.

JDSIDD, Revenge of the Titans is a great TD game. Here's a thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=59469) where people discussed the beta version.