How do adults do college?

[frank austin]

Here's the scenario. I'm 28 years old, and I've worked retail every year since I turned 18 to make ends meet. I have done management and now purchasing and I feel like I've covered all of the bases and topped out my earning potential. I absolutely hate my job. I have always tried to pursue what I want to do without relying on formal education, and in most things I have been very successful. With the economic downturn, a degree seems to have been tacked on to every list of job requirements just because companies can, and I'm finding the transition out of my current job almost impossible.

The advice I usually receive when I talk about this is "Go back to school!" I usually write this off because I've got too many bills to pay to really think about this. I don't make a small amount of money, and I can't imagine any school loans covering my basic living expenses as well as paying for me to go to school. I live with my girlfriend and between the two of us we pay a total of about $1800/month in rent and bills. Beyond that I still need to eat, gas the car, and do whatever else I want to do with my life.

I still always hear about adults going back to school full-time, and I can't help but wonder how they make it happen. I grew up poor enough that college wasn't really an option for me, so I never went through the process. I've come a long way financially in the last ten years, and I'm not entirely willing to give that up for the promise of a (possibly) more lucrative and fulfilling career in four-to-eight years. Taking classes at night or part time isn't really an option for me, either, as I have a pretty full schedule already. Essentially I'd be willing to substitute work for school eight hours a day, but I don't think (or know how) that's possible.

The other problem I have is that my peer group is mostly made up of people who went to college and work less lucrative and enjoyable jobs than I have. I don't really know anyone with a degree who got to use it in the way they thought they would - they almost all ended up working at Whole Foods or in various retail/customer service positions. To me, this is a pretty massive gamble to be taking. Four years of incurring debt for an uncertain outcome seems like a very, very bad idea.

[noun]

Taking classes at night or part time isn't really an option for me, either, as I have a pretty full schedule already.

Doing what? You work full time 8-5 and go to school full time at night 3 to 5 days a week. Unless you're working during that time, everything else takes a back seat if you're serious about school.


Essentially I'd be willing to substitute work for school eight hours a day, but I don't think (or know how) that's possible.

It isn't, unless you're fortunate enough to have a significant other that earns 80%+ of the income and doesn't mind you being out of work while you go back to school.

It's possible to both work and go to school full time, but it is hard as hell and only gets harder the older you get.

[frank austin]

Yeah, sadly my girlfriend makes about 60% of what I do, so that's not really an option.

I guess I'm not serious enough about school to do it at night 3-5 days a week. I am serious about lots of other things (see: "I have always tried to pursue what I want to do without relying on formal education, and in most things I have been very successful.") that take up that time. I'm not really willing to give that up in the face of my wildly underemployed and over-educated peers.

[Marcus]

You suck it up.

[Lorini]

Have you looked at certifications in the areas you'd be interested in? Many times you can do certification classes online and they are cheaper than a full degree. They still can get you a job too.

Also do you have your AA from a community college? Community college is much less expensive and much more adult friendly than a full four year college. If you decide you want a four year degree, definitely do the first two years at a community college.

[frank austin]

You suck it up.

I guess I'm looking for a bit more tactical/logistical advice than this.

[Robert Sharp]

Well, the problem is that you've said you don't want to stop working and you don't want to take classes at night. What options are really left? You pretty much have to do one or the other. If you don't have children, you should be able to take night classes. You can manage that even if you do have children, but without them, there's not much excuse.

I don't think community college is any more adult friendly, by the way. Pretty much all four year schools now have continuing education programs with night classes, and you still get a good, full degree. CC might be cheaper, of course, but then you can only get an associates degree, which isn't what you want anyway.

[Cold Blooded]

I guess I'm looking for a bit more tactical/logistical advice than this.

Spitballing:

There are educational tax credits (they don't amount to much, but every little bit might help in your situation).

Also, employer may actually have a clause in the fine print of work policy to help subsidize your education if you can prove that education will be put to work in service of the company. May want to check with company's human resource department, and if you can get a real live person there, may also want to ask about any other alternatives.

Could also presumably look into educational grants, stipends, and scholarships, though confess to be unfamiliar with any for your age group/situation. Google search for "working adult scholarship" seems to have some leads.

If you have anything in your area, you may also want to make an appointment at a local career counseling company to see if they have any other ideas or leads.

And RE: Night school, there are, of course, online educational institutions such as DeVry and University of Phoenix.

[Ryan A]

There are some online/hybrid universities that offer legitimate degrees and require minimal seat-time (typically about 1 weekend a month).

http://www.cityu.edu/
http://www.phoenix.edu/

Their programs are all designed with the adult (and working) student in mind.

[spiffy]

You could also move to a town somewhere across the hills/out of state with a college and much lower living expenses. It would stretch your savings out longer. I guess you'd have to find another (maybe part time) job and maybe your girlfriend wouldn't want to go.. but the bay area is so unforgivingly expensive I'm amazed anybody without six roomates or parents to siphon off can go to school here.

[Bill Dungsroman]

I guess I'm not serious enough about school to do it at night 3-5 days a week.

Then what the Hell did you start this thread for?

You could try for an MBA from an online place like University of Phoenix, I guess. Otherwise, you sound you're waiting for a magic leprechaun to jump through the window and hand you a diploma.

[Supertanker]

Everyone I know that did it went to class at night. It's hard, but it is only for a few years. I did two years of law school at night, while working 50 hours a week. You're just always busy, always somewhere, doing something.

[frank austin]

You could also move to a town somewhere across the hills/out of state with a college and much lower living expenses. It would stretch your savings out longer. I guess you'd have to find another (maybe part time) job and maybe your girlfriend wouldn't want to go.. but the bay area is so unforgivingly expensive I'm amazed anybody without six roomates or parents to siphon off can go to school here.

Yeah, I think that this is a pretty huge problem. I don't know anyone who went to school here who didn't have rich parents or a pretty punk lifestyle for a few years.

Lorini, certifications don't really apply to the sorts of things I'd like to study, unfortunately. I have looked at community colleges around here, but the expense and schedule doesn't work with my work and income.

Robert, I'm willing to not work, I'm just worried that I wouldn't be able to maintain any sort of a reasonable standard of living if I didn't. Like spiffy says, the Bay is a pretty unforgiving place to be a student unless you already have the resources. (I don't.) I will look at some local continuing education programs and see what I can find out.

Most of the online universities I've looked at don't have anything I'd be interested in studying. They seem like great solutions if you want to do certain things, but I haven't ever found a program that appealed to me and seemed worth investing so much time and money in.

[frank austin]

Then what the Hell did you start this thread for?

Because I always see adults going back to school full-time, not taking night classes, and I don't understand how they make it happen. I still don't.

[Eilonwy]

You do night school. You can work the classes into your schedule and it's cheaper than going full time. Usually classes only meet once a week, maybe twice. It's the perfect way to figure out whether you're ready to be serious for school or not. Just take one class. You like it, think you can keep up, take two or more the next semester. It's how I managed my MA while working full time and having a second job. Semesters where I took two classes in a row fucking sucked, but if you want it, you do it.

[frank austin]

Everyone I know that did it went to class at night. It's hard, but it is only for a few years. I did two years of law school at night, while working 50 hours a week. You're just always busy, always somewhere, doing something.

I'm exactly the opposite; I don't know any adults who went to night school. I think that the Bay Area has really messed up my perception of this sort of thing, because the overwhelming majority of my peers have a lot of wealth in their families that they can use to support themselves while going to school. No one talks about that sort of thing, of course, but it's becoming more and more clear to me that it's the only way that their lifestyles make any sort of financial sense.

[Robert Sharp]

Because I always see adults going back to school full-time, not taking night classes, and I don't understand how they make it happen. I still don't.

1. They live off a spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend's income (even if that's tight)
2. They get student loans
3. They save up.
4. They have a sponsor (perhaps a parent).

From my experience, that's in rought order of percentage, too. What I mean is that most live off lovers, and the least actually get parents to pay for it. Somewhere in there should be that a job offers it as a way to educate their employees, but I doubt that fits in your case, since you want to change careers.

[Lorini]

In California, CC transfer students get into UC before any other students (assuming you meet the curriculum and GPA requirements). I should have mentioned that. The purpose of going to a CC is to get the first two years out of the way cheaply.

I'm not sure what you are looking for here either Frank. It takes money to go to school full time. That's the start and end of it. You are going to have to give up something in order to do it. I think you need to re-think your commitment to this idea. There's nothing magical about trying to change careers.

[Robert Sharp]

Oh, and by the way, a lot of night classes are now blended learning classes. In fact, I am teaching one right now. We will only meet in a classroom 3 times. The rest of it is all online. However, this is a full university. These aren't really considered online degrees, even though a lot of the work is done online, to accomodate people just like you.

[frank austin]

1. They live off a spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend's income (even if that's tight)
2. They get student loans
3. They save up.
4. They have a sponsor (perhaps a parent).

From my experience, that's in rought order of percentage, too. What I mean is that most live off lovers, and the least actually get parents to pay for it. Somewhere in there should be that a job offers it as a way to educate their employees, but I doubt that fits in your case, since you want to change careers.

Do student loans (or savings for that matter) really cover the kind of expenses that most adults have?

Lemme clarify, I'm not trying to find some magical school solution. I am not committed to the idea of going back to school at all. I am curious how people make this sort of thing work because so few people ever talk about it. Only once I have a more full understanding of the ways adults get their bills paid while going to school would I be willing to try and figure it out. That's what I'm trying to do. Sorry if that rubs some of you the wrong way, but it's an honest inquiry.

[Stepsongrapes]

First, what degree are you planning to go back for? That'll address a bit of the risk/benefit analysis.

As to the logistics, others have said it: something has to give. Stating that you don't want to work less and don't want to give up your nights leads to an easy answer: you're not going to go back to school.

Depending on the degree, you may be able to work out some situation after a couple of years where you transition to an interim job in that field, which will hopefully pay you better, hourly, than what you're making now. You could then work less, while maintaining the same earnings.

But yeah, "suck it up" is the reality of it.

[Robert Sharp]

Well, that depends on where you live. In the Bay area? Maybe not. In Alabama, where Tyler lives? Absolutely. You can borrow a good bit through student loans today. There is a yearly max, however. You can also work part time to supplement that while going to school. So you wouldn't have a full time job, but you'd still have some money coming in. Are you pretty sure the place you work won't accomodate you a bit for this sort of thing?

Oh, and I'm not offended, if it seemed that way. When I asked what you want us to suggest because you are limiting our options, I was just trying to get a better feel for how committed you are to the notion of not quitting your job and not going to night classes. Because as you have described your situation, those are your only two options.

You don't currently have a degree, though, so you may also be eligible for grants based on income. That's something to look into anyway. You could call an admissions person at a nearby college/university and get a preliminary idea of your options. They want you to come back to school, so they'll try to help.

[Jason McCullough]

Things you may not know:
1. Economics research shows that in general employers are just looking for a credential, any credential, to to show you can do work at a given intellectual level, barring a couple obvious ones like sports management.
2. From there, specific specialties (engineering, business) prefer relevant credentials, which bumps you up the hiring priority list.

As to getting an education, think of it as a set of levers you can adjust:
1. Expenses.
2. Work hours.
3. Non-work and education (free) time.
4. Quality of education.
5. Paying interest.

Personally, I'd advise:
1. Find the best state school you can get into. Community college degrees don't have a particularly high ROI, and all the online education credentials I'm aware of are considered totally worthless by employers. Partially online is interesting if the credential is otherwise good and employers can't tell.
2. Adjust the other parameters as necessary. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES go into debt to get a crap education.
3. Bust your ass looking for every form of financial aid you can find. There's a wide array of little-known scholarships and low-interest loan programs.

[Sean Hargraves]

I still always hear about adults going back to school full-time, and I can't help but wonder how they make it happen.

I'm doing this right now and I can say sleep becomes optional. I'll be getting a degree this May, but the journey the last few years has been rough. No time for friends, family or anything. Also, had to quit a relatively well-paying job (where I worked day shifts) for one that paid close to minimum wage (where I worked evening, weekend and holiday shifts) just so there would be no scheduling conflicts. Moved to a smaller place with a lower rent. Had to learn to eat Ramen and bologna sandwiches regularly again.

It was hard telling my brother I couldn't attend his wedding last year and I think he's pissed that I didn't, but I don't really know if this is the case because I haven't spoken to him since then.

Basically, you need to decide if you're willing to make sacrifices to make this work. If you're not, I don't think you should bother.

[tiohn]

Drunk as hell.

[Tyjenks]

oops, put mine in the other thread before I saw this one:


I had a home equity line that ended up getting maxed out. EDIT: And got loans. Everyone does not have that, I understand. I am not good, I am afraid, with pointing to the best financial solution. Working while in school and government student loans is the route I would suggest, but most colleges have decent financial aid counselors that can help and tell you what is available. There are multiple different types of loans.

Not sure if this is helpful, inspirational or a desire for pity :), but....

I was 35, had a mortgage, a wife that worked retail and a kid, after doing only school for a year, my wife found out she was pregnant and then while I was finishing school after the kid was born, the wife got Teh breast cancer. There are no guarantees, obviously, and nothing seems easy at the start and it will most likely be difficult and you will think you cannot take it, but if you can persevere, it could pay off better than you could imagine. It did for me....my book will be out in the Fall. ;)

All this said, if you are not willing to work like a dog to put yourself in a better position and make sacrifices for several years, then I would not bother. You really have to dig down and find some drive and motivation. I bottomed out and was the most miserable as I had ever been. Like a junkie that cannot rehab until he/she reaches their lowest point. I would advise not waiting until you are 35.

[frank austin]

First, what degree are you planning to go back for? That'll address a bit of the risk/benefit analysis.

As to the logistics, others have said it: something has to give. Stating that you don't want to work less and don't want to give up your nights leads to an easy answer: you're not going to go back to school.

Depending on the degree, you may be able to work out some situation after a couple of years where you transition to an interim job in that field, which will hopefully pay you better, hourly, than what you're making now. You could then work less, while maintaining the same earnings.

But yeah, "suck it up" is the reality of it.

I don't really have a strong idea of what I would go back to school for. It doesn't make the risk/benefit analysis any easier, but if you backed me into a corner and made me pick something I'd probably say English.

I never said I didn't want to work less. I don't want to work full time and go to night school, and I don't want to live hella punk for the next few years.

This isn't supposed to be a "help me figure out how to go back to school" thread, it's a "help me figure out how other people go back to school so I can figure out if I wanna" thread.


Well, that depends on where you live. In the Bay area? Maybe not. In Alabama, where Tyler lives? Absolutely. You can borrow a good bit through student loans today. There is a yearly max, however. You can also work part time to supplement that while going to school. So you wouldn't have a full time job, but you'd still have some money coming in. Are you pretty sure the place you work won't accomodate you a bit for this sort of thing?

Oh, and I'm not offended, if it seemed that way. When I asked what you want us to suggest because you are limiting our options, I was just trying to get a better feel for how committed you are to the notion of not quitting your job and not going to night classes. Because as you have described your situation, those are your only two options.

You don't currently have a degree, though, so you may also be eligible for grants based on income. That's something to look into anyway. You could call an admissions person at a nearby college/university and get a preliminary idea of your options. They want you to come back to school, so they'll try to help.

I wouldn't be able to keep my current job and go to school full-time, unfortunately. No big deal if I could find another one. If I had to choose between not quitting and going to night school or having a much lower standard of living and working part-time/at night, I'd probably pick my current life over either of those. Like I said, I'm not committed to the idea of school at all, just trying to figure out how people make it happen as adults.

Basically, I hate my job, but I don't hate it enough to go through the kind of shit that Sean Hargraves is describing for four years.


Things you may not know:
1. Economics research shows that in general employers are just looking for a credential, any credential, to to show you can do work at a given intellectual level, barring a couple obvious ones like sports management.
2. From there, specific specialties (engineering, business) prefer relevant credentials, which bumps you up the hiring priority list.

As to getting an education, think of it as a set of levers you can adjust:
1. Expenses.
2. Work hours.
3. Non-work and education (free) time.
4. Quality of education.
5. Paying interest.

Personally, I'd advise:
1. Find the best state school you can get into. Community college degrees don't have a particularly high ROI, and all the online education credentials I'm aware of are considered totally worthless by employers. Partially online is interesting if the credential is otherwise good and employers can't tell.
2. Adjust the other parameters as necessary. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES go into debt to get a crap education.
3. Bust your ass looking for every form of financial aid you can find. There's a wide array of little-known scholarships and low-interest loan programs.

Thanks Jason, this is all the kind of stuff I was looking for. How do you hunt for financial aid information? I don't even know where to start with that sort of thing.


Basically, you need to decide if you're willing to make sacrifices to make this work. If you're not, I don't think you should bother.

Yeah, I'm not really willing to make these kind of sacrifices for an uncertain education. If I was more committed to the idea, I would be, but I'm not yet. This is the information-gathering phase, not the "I'm going to do this, how do I make it happen?" phase.


All this said, if you are not willing to work like a dog to put yourself in a better position and make sacrifices for several years, then I would not bother. You really have to dig down and find some drive and motivation. I bottomed out and was the most miserable as I had ever been. Like a junkie that cannot rehab until he/she reaches their lowest point. I would advise not waiting until you are 35.

Yeah, I'm not that miserable. I despise working retail, but I have a lot of other stuff going on in my life that I find pretty rewarding that I'm not willing to give up for night school or something similar. I think in the end, I'll probably just have to apply myself a lot more in an active career change rather than hitting the reset button and seeking higher education.

[hong]

I got lucky and managed to get my employer to keep me on (at half pay) while I was at the ANU. In return, I worked in the office during semester breaks. It meant I didn't have to queue up for govt funds or do any teaching. It also helped that I didn't have any kids or other dependents.

[Tyjenks]

Did not realize stepsongrapes said the exact same thing as I did since i was cross posting and added my additional blurb. He must be smart, too. ;)

[Lorini]

http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/

That is where you start for financial aid.

Do you have a specific career you want? One thing you can get at a CC is vocational counseling. I'd highly recommend it if you don't know what else you would want to do.

[Ryan A]

Thanks Jason, this is all the kind of stuff I was looking for. How do you hunt for financial aid information? I don't even know where to start with that sort of thing.

Get in touch with an admissions advisor at a nearby university (or with any that offers distance/online learning) and act like the only barrier to your enrolling RIGHT AWAY is finances. They have a vested interest in explaining the FAFSA process and connecting you with as many resources as possible.

[Lux]

Two words: Massive Debt. That's actually how most people do college regardless of age.

Also for about one in a hundred people there's an institution out there somewhere that will waive your expenses based on academic merit.

Aside from that I think it's mostly the external benefactor thing. (parent, lover, employer, etc.)

For adults without families going back to school for graduate degrees they almost always hold out for the teaching or research assistantship that can fund both their living and educational expenses.

I'd also like to toss out there that there are pretty reputable online graduate degrees associated with major research universities in quite a few fields now. It's just the bachelors scene that remains somewhat sketch.

[copeknight]

Since you're curious about how adults do it, I'll share how I've done it. I went to school full-time and pretty exclusively for my undergraduate, but I've done all my graduate work while working full time. (I teach, so I do have the advantage of summers for school, but relatively little was done during the summer.)

1) Online. Most of my first grad degree (Instructional Design and Technology) was delivered online. I'd add that the time commitments for online classes--at least where I went (Emporia State University here in Kansas, although I started when I was still in South Dakota)--were significantly higher than most (but not all) in person graduate-level classes I've had.

2) Nights. For my second one (Gifted Education), most of the classes were offered at night. A few were online as well, and most of them had at least a token online component. Typically we met one night a week for 3 hours, I believe.

3) Weekends. My Master of Library Science consisted primarily of what Emporia State calls "weekend intensives"--Friday night, all day Saturday, Sunday morning.

4) Night again. I'm finishing my history MA (comprehensive exams willing) and, again, did it at night taking 2 classes (2 nights) a semester most semesters.

There's no way to get around the time commitment, though. School takes a lot out of my gaming, TV, and leisure reading time. As an undergrad, I had a good friend who was a "non-traditional" student. As an elementary ed major, she didn't have a choice but to take day classes. She took a few classes a semester. She worked part-time at a job that valued her enough to let her adjust her schedule each semester.

I am an adjunct instructor at a local community college, and their class options are really designed for working adults (at least at the branch where I work). Classes are 3 hours and meet one day a week. Most (well, many) have night options, but those that don't are 3 hours one morning or afternoon a week rather than something like 9:30-10:45 Tuesday/Thursday. They also have a substantial online component. They want something like 25% of their classes online eventually. There are community colleges throughout the U.S. that allow students to get a general 2-year degree online only. If the college has an articulation agreement, students--as already mentioned--can typically enter a 4-year college as a junior. Some 4-year colleges have some programs that can be completed at night. Others have online components. I know Fort Hays State here in Kansas offers something called "Virtual College" that has grown by leaps and bounds and has the same accreditations (sp?) as does the brick & mortar school.

Again, all of these options take time and cost money. I don't have a family and make decent money, so I can afford to put money into classes instead of games. But there are plenty of financial aid or, yes, student loan opportunities out there. In general, the drawback of this is that it takes longer to complete a degree (it's a lot easier to take a full load of classes while working part-time or not at all than while working 40+ hours), some options are more out of reach (that could be certain programs only offered during the day or others--I never was a Graduate Assistant because of my schedule and working full time; that limits my experience for future positions in higher ed--it would be somewhat different for an undergrad degree, but there are Student Assistantships and Internships that I think would be harder to get in a part-time basis), and some individual classes you might really want or that might prove really useful might be unattainable. But if a person has a goal, those are all problems that can be worked around in my experience.

[hong]

Two words: Massive Debt. That's actually how most people do college regardless of age.


Only in Americaia. :p

[Athryn]

If you're in the East Bay, also look into some of the technical colleges. I started to go to Western Career College (http://www.westerncollege.edu/) for my Vet Tech schooling before I moved to VA. They are a very professional, organized school and get all the financials set up for you beforehand.

Something to look into at least, they're kind of a medical/dental type of place. But hey, if your classes are next door to the massage therapy class, you get free massages!

[Stepsongrapes]

I don't really have a strong idea of what I would go back to school for. It doesn't make the risk/benefit analysis any easier, but if you backed me into a corner and made me pick something I'd probably say English.

Honestly, don't go back to college to get an English degree. What exactly do you intend to do with an English degree as a 32 year old with retail experience?

Either go full out technical/vocational (some sort of engineering, medical, etc.) or leverage your retail experience (economics, accounting, etc.).

[Reldan]

Honestly, don't go back to college to get an English degree. What exactly do you intend to do with an English degree as a 32 year old with retail experience?

Either go full out technical/vocational (some sort of engineering, medical, etc.) or leverage your retail experience (economics, accounting, etc.).

This.

Do not go back to school to get a degree because you want a career change to something with more earning potential if you don't actually have an idea of what such a job would be and how the degree would help you get it.

The only couple I know who did what you're describing moved to a smaller town in Michigan where the cost of living was low. How difficult would it be if you're making decent money right now to squirrel away for a few years and then live off savings plus your spouse's income in a cheaper town?

[Hrnac]

I spent two years in the Army over in West Germany between my 3rd and 4th semesters at the University of Wisconsin. After my enlistment was up, I returned to college at the age of 26.

I lived like a pauper for 3 years until graduation, but it was worth every second of the sacrifice to know that I accomplished my goal. There is no easy way to do this other than to "suck it up and do it" as others have mentioned in this thread. It can be done if you want it bad enough.

-Hrnac

[Zephyr]

Another vote to suck it up and go to school at night. Find what financial aid you can and borrow the rest. I finished up an engineering degree by taking night classes and working full-time during the day. I did go to a community college for a few years to reduce my costs. Every person in my age group, 28-35, was doing the same thing, except for one person. He lived off a national guard stipend in a shoebox with just a crock pot to make food for the week.

[Lux]

Only in Americaia. :p

You got me there.

[idrisz]

Honestly, don't go back to college to get an English degree. What exactly do you intend to do with an English degree as a 32 year old with retail experience?

Either go full out technical/vocational (some sort of engineering, medical, etc.) or leverage your retail experience (economics, accounting, etc.).

Yes, Please don't go back to college because you think you want to get an English degree, if you do, you will end up with a crushing amount of debt and nothing to show for at end.

Make sure you know what you want to do when you complete your education.

[Hiredgoons]

A lot of traditional college students carry a full load of courses and work 15-25 hours per week. It's not at all unusual for some to be working very close or at full tiem. Depends on your intended major and academic aptitude, of course.

So, if you go to school full-time, that doesn't mean that your income goes to zero. You may have to take a job with lousy hours (i.e. that's open later and on weekends, since you'll be in class during the morning/early afternoon), but it keeps some cash rolling in.

Since you're older you would (or should be) smarter with your time management than the typical undergrad. A typical undergrad takes what? 4 or 5 courses? there is plenty of time to earn some money on the side.

If you spend 20 hours a week on course work this would place you in the top tier of students. A lot of undergrads spend < 5 hours per week on coursework and and then hit the books bigtime during a few crunch periods. If you have a job you won't have that flexibility, but if you manage your time right it's definitely doable.

I'm not sure an English degree really helps you that much, but if that is what you really want, I would expect carrying a full-time job (not necessarily the job you're at) would be doable with that type of curriculum.

[red guy]

I have done management and now purchasing and I feel like I've covered all of the bases and topped out my earning potential. I absolutely hate my job. I have always tried to pursue what I want to do without relying on formal education, and in most things I have been very successful. With the economic downturn, a degree seems to have been tacked on to every list of job requirements just because companies can, and I'm finding the transition out of my current job almost impossible.

Have you considered starting your own business? No education required, no earning potential ceiling, management / purchasing experience a definite advantage. You'll need a business plan and startup capital, though.
Or you could take a course in a business school.

[rossm]

You don't have to be rich or young to go to college. I started at 24 years old with ~$600 to my name, which barely covered the application fee, orientation fee, and food for the first couple weeks. I had no job and no support structure.

Now I work about 20 hours a week for minimum wage and I'm graduating next spring. I turn 27 in a couple months. Even as a high school drop out I qualified for all kinds of grants and stuff. Since my grades have been good, I get scholarships to continue. Each semester the school cuts me a check which more than covers expenses including rent and food.

You just have to be willing to do what it takes. Nobody is going to do it for you, or set a button in front of you to push. But it's not particularly hard either. You just have to be willing to make some changes. By the way, school is the best thing I've ever done. I cannot recommend it enough.

[lesslucid]

Buy a "degree" from an online certificate mill. It's cheap, fast, and won't make any demands on your time. Who'll know the difference?

[Karen]

Rather than say - "I want to major in English", ask yourself - "What field do I want to be working in with my degree?" Do you want to do copy-writing, work in advertising, journalism, teach etc. English is a very wide field, and it's probably a good idea to figure out what your end goal is before you plop 60K down on a degree (Plus I'm an engineer so what would I know). That said I know a lot of people with english degrees that do software.
Think of where you want to be in a few years, call people (or companies) in those fields and ask for advice. Most people will be more than happy to help / offer advice.

We did the adult student thing. Ben finished his BA at 34. My brother is 36 and finishing up his BS in Finance, my dad finished his BS in engineering while working full time, with a wife working full time and a screaming infant in the house (me).

One benefit of getting a degree when you are older, is that you are more serious about the work, and tend to get better grades. A downside is that there are less scholarships out there.

You can do it, it will be hard and you will have to put off somethings but it will be worth it in the end.

So, here's my advice - be very very very nice to your GF, she may have to pick up a lot of your slack when you go to school. Hopefully she is very understanding.

Go for all of the scholarships and student loans you can get. We paid for Ben's degree with scholarships and loans. We are halfway through paying off 40K of loans. This comes to $400-$500 (depending on the prime rate) a month for 10 years. It's like an extra car payment. Find a nice, cheap affordable car. A coworker and I laugh that the student loan payments are more than our car payments (and he has a BMW - used of course).

You will have to put off big life things for 5 years or so, this is not the time to travel the world, build a house or start a family. That's OK, people live long these days and there's always time for things in the future.

Going back to school is do-able, just make sure you know what you want to do, and are willing for a few years of sacrifice. In the end it will pay off.

[godhugh]

It's a very difficult thing. I'm going back to school to get a nursing degree right now and I'm also working 40-50 hours a week as well as helping my pregnant wife take care of our 1 year old. I go to school in the evenings and on Saturday and work pretty much all the rest of the time. It's a fairly relentless schedule but it's only for a couple years and we'll be much better off in the end.

Don't even try it though unless you have a ton of motivation and are 100% committed to it. If you aren't, you'll find some excuse to stop and you'll have simply wasted everyone's time.

[frank austin]

A lot of good responses. Thanks for that, folks.

The things I'm picking up most are: 1) Don't do it unless you're prepared to sacrifice some things. 2) Don't do it unless you know what you want to do in school (What a difference from what they tell you in high school!) and 3) Don't do it unless you want debt.

I think I'll take a pass on continued education for now. Heh.

[Moore]

You suck it up.

This. My sister and my wife both just toughed it out, you live and breathe school. My sis is even a single parent...

The alternative is to just be perfect at work and lucky. I'm a sys admin for ge energy and I have a piddly art school degree in making zombies out of just about anything.

[Robert Sharp]

A lot of good responses. Thanks for that, folks.

The things I'm picking up most are: 1) Don't do it unless you're prepared to sacrifice some things. 2) Don't do it unless you know what you want to do in school (What a difference from what they tell you in high school!) and 3) Don't do it unless you want debt.

I think I'll take a pass on continued education for now. Heh.

Right, but we would all be giving you very different advice if you were in HS. So the people back then were right. You should get a degree, any degree, out of HS in most cases. It increases your odds of getting a good job. But in your case, you already have a decent job, just one you don't like enough. So the advice is different.

As for the debts, note that Karen's monthly debt bill is based on a 10 year payment plan. You can get 30 year plans, at very low rates, and pay it off with much lower payments. It's up to you. Obviously, you pay more in interest by doing so, but you also lower your monthly minimum payments, and you can always pay more if you want to pay it off more quickly.

[DTG]

I think I'll take a pass on continued education for now. Heh.

Single and without kids makes it orders of magnitude easier. If you want to take a pass now, you'll never, ever do it once you have real financial obligations and family that one assumes you'd want to spend time with.

When single, I crammed my MS in Engineering into nights, weekends and some days while working full time (no real adult programs for engineering 20 or so years ago...maybe there are today). All the classes were during the days, and I did my research nights and weekends. Days I missed at work for school, my employer let me make up nights and weekends. No way at all I could do that with a house, wife, kids and a job with travel.

[Edit] - It certainly helped that my employer paid half of my tuition. And since I was working full time, with no meaningful expenses ($400/month in rent, a 10-year-old car and beer), and since it WAS 20 years ago when tuition was still something mortals could pay, I covered the rest. And I'm still with the same company.

[Edit again]: I did consider an MBA program about 10 years ago. One of those "weekend only" ones, where you spend all day Saturday and most of Sunday. By then, I had one child and another on the way. And a house. And tuition was $30,000. I ended up buying a minivan instead.

[frank austin]

My situation just doesn't call for it. I don't have anything specific I want to get out of a higher education, I would just be going because I'd like to study more formally and because it seems to be "the thing" to do when you dead-end your current career. I already pull a fair amount of financial weight with my girlfriend while she starts her own new career, and if I were to suddenly up and lose a significant portion of my income it just wouldn't work. The floor would fall out from underneath us pretty quickly. Certainly if I was more dedicated to the idea or if I had some way to make ends meet that would jive with full-time school, I would make it happen.

I don't have to worry about having "real financial obligations" because I already have all of those I'm likely to ever have. I'm not ever having kids (Before I get the "never say never" responses - I had a vasectomy) or buying a house as long as I live in Northern California, which I plan on doing for quite a while yet. So at least if I come up with a compelling reason to go back to school in the next few years, I will likely be in the same exact financial situation. No worries there.

Since starting this thread I've had a couple conversations with my friends who have gone back to school full-time days after having their own bills to pay, and they all say the same thing about how they pulled it off. "My parents helped out." Fucking Bay Area.

[Reldan]

Don't do it unless you know what you want to do in school (What a difference from what they tell you in high school!)

In practical terms a degree is about increasing your potential earning potential by paying an upfront cost in time and money. When you are coming out of HS you're what? 17? 18? Going straight to college is efficient because during those years you spend in college your earning potential off just a HS diploma was going to be crap anyways and if you finish up by 21 or 22 you maximize the number of years you'll be able to earn that increased salary. Some degrees will obviously lead to more lucrative careers, but just about any degree is better than nothing at this stage of life.

Once you're an adult who already sacrificed those early, shitty years of workforce development making ends meet, the value of a degree becomes a bit whole different equation. You're giving up years of what would otherwise be a substantial amount of income - essentially sacrificing the time you spent to work up to this point - in addition to paying the tuition and living costs. Worse, you'll have less working years after you graduate to take advantage of the degree's benefits.

The biggest factor is whether you want the degree because you want to find a new career path that makes your working life more enjoyable. You can't put a price on peace of mind, but you don't have time to dick around with not being certain of where you're going like a 19 year old could afford to do.

[Incendiary Lemon]

Community college is a fantastic place. Many of the students there have marginal interest in their classes but there are quite a few who are motivated and understand how the critical importance of an education. Classes are relatively inexpensive and you don't necessarily need to accrue debt to cover tuition. I worked full time, two jobs at times, in order to cover my bills while I went to school. I'm now at UVA and I'm just now starting to take on debt. That said it will add up quickly from here on out, I expect to graduate with 25k-35k in loans.

It will be hard work juggling classes and a job. It also important to consider how it will affect your personal relationships. You just won't have as much time for your friends, family, and SO.

Just to give you an idea of what my days looked like.

07:00-07:15 Breakfast
07:15-08:00 Driving
08:00-12:00 Class
12:00-12:15 Driving
12:15-12:45 Lunch
12:45-13:00 Driving
13:00-20:30 Work
20:30-21:15 Driving
21:15-21:45 Dinner
21:45-22:45 Homework
22:45-23:15 Running

And then sleep. That was a roughly average day for me. If a paper was due then it might be an all nighter. The hardest part was never having a day off for months on end. I really struggled with that.

-

I'd strongly encourage you to do it, and do at as early as you can. More than a degree school is a very much an education. What I've learned in the classroom has had a strong influence on the way I perceive the world and the decisions that I make. I've also met fantastic people who I expect to keep up with well after I graduate.

If there's a single reason to go to college though it is economics. It's difficult to break even without a degree.

[GuildBoss]

Single and without kids makes it orders of magnitude easier. If you want to take a pass now, you'll never, ever do it once you have real financial obligations and family that one assumes you'd want to spend time with..

This.

It'll only get harder assuming you'll eventually get married and have rugrats.

And, frankly, I think you're going about this backwards. IMO you should figure out what the hell you WANT to do/be and then decide if it's worth it to you, or better yet, just set out to achieve it.

What about opening your own shop? You have the background. And working for yourself is much different than working for someone else and you may enjoy it.

[ElGuapo]

This. My sister and my wife both just toughed it out, you live and breathe school. My sis is even a single parent...

The alternative is to just be perfect at work and lucky. I'm a sys admin for ge energy and I have a piddly art school degree in making zombies out of just about anything.

Yeah, but to be fair, you are pretty good at that. :)

[Morberis]

An English degree? I'm going to lol at that, I went to class with a 32 year old who had been working retail and had an English degree, he was back for more education because that thing did squat for him. A tradesman he is now, higher paid, and much much happier.




The alternative is to just be perfect at work and lucky. I'm a sys admin for ge energy and I have a piddly art school degree in making zombies out of just about anything.

Pics?

[Incendiary Lemon]

An English degree? I'm going to lol at that, I went to class with a 32 year old who had been working retail and had an English degree, he was back for more education because that thing did squat for him. A tradesman he is now, higher paid, and much much happier.

If your drawn towards teaching or academics then you quickly fall into the diploma game. You need several years of graduate level work to qualify for much of anything these days. Course you can also major in English and go into armed services. None of the branches are going to look down on your degree (well, except the Navy). State and Federal work usually requires nothing more than Bachelors.

Becoming a tradesman is a very legitimate path though. Not everyone was meant for college and if you want to be a mechanic, a carpenter, a stone mason, then go for it.

[Jojo]

I would guess the reason you are not feeling motivated to make sacrifices for college is because you don't know what you would do with this mythical degree anyway. If you had a specific goal in mind, then it would probably be much easier (psychologically) to do.

[Morberis]

If your drawn towards teaching or academics then you quickly fall into the diploma game. You need several years of graduate level work to qualify for much of anything these days. Course you can also major in English and go into armed services. None of the branches are going to look down on your degree (well, except the Navy). State and Federal work usually requires nothing more than Bachelors.

Becoming a tradesman is a very legitimate path though. Not everyone was meant for college and if you want to be a mechanic, a carpenter, a stone mason, then go for it.

That is true, but the armed forces are not for everyone and the physical requirements are definitely not for everybody, especially for an ex-hippy who still likes to dance almost everyday of the week.

If you know what you want to do with an English degree, go for it, but if you only want it because of some vague notions that it'll get you a great job, do some hard thinking and some research first. Determine what you want and then go for it.

For instance I'm going in for being an electrician, and then depending what I want to do when I become I journeyman I want to pick up an electrical engineering degree (2 years of which is taken off for me being a journeyman electrician). My experience in the field on industrial and commercial with the engineering degree I have heard should make me fairly desirable from what I've heard.

Anyway, what my friend did to go through for another education at the ripe age of 32 was savings, student loans, and dishwashing on weekends and occasionally during the week.

[Eightball]

I'm a big fan of higher education...but there's no reason to go back to college for an English degree, unless you have some specific career path in mind. And I'm not sure, barring Professor of English, that there are too many of those career paths that require an English degree.

One of my degrees is a BA in History. It's pretty equivalent to an English degree in worthlessness.

[Supersport]

You can also do online classes. I have been doing those for the past 6 years and finishing this year with a degree in Information Management and a minor in Business Administration.

This school I use is University Of Maryland.

However, I would look at local schools around your area and see if they offer online study. Many are moving to that format.

[Moore]

I don't want to derail, I'll do a pic post once my current batch is done. Most of the stuff I make now is 6th scale, for cost and space reasons.

[pogozorro]

Adults, typically, fare quite well. I have a BS in Political Science (which rivals the English degree as near useless), and an MBA (which is even more useless!), yet I am currently taking science classes at UMD because I really want to change my line of work.

Juggling a family and a full time career while going back to school is rather difficult; I'm the first to admit that. I only take 8-10 hours a semester, but that is four nights a week, often from 1800-2200, and I spend all of Sunday reading/writing/studying.

I think online universities have a long way to go before they have any real legitimacy with the country at large. A lot of the military uses them, so slowly but surely, I think they will slowly gain ground.

[Tortilla]

Adults, typically, fare quite well. I have a BS in Political Science (which rivals the English degree as near useless), and an MBA (which is even more useless!), yet I am currently taking science classes at UMD because I really want to change my line of work.


MBA is useless? Interesting. I've always thought if I ever do get the opportunity to return to school my goal would be an MBA.

[Bill]

No, they're useless unless your current employer requires them for advancement.

[Eric Majkut]

I would guess the reason you are not feeling motivated to make sacrifices for college is because you don't know what you would do with this mythical degree anyway. If you had a specific goal in mind, then it would probably be much easier (psychologically) to do.

This is my problem. I want to go back to school, but I don't know what I want to do when I get out, hence I can't decide on a degree.

The problem isn't so much that I can't think of a career I'd like to do, it's that I can't think of a career that I'm sure I could get into once I got a degree.

For example, I currently make money doing freelance writing. I'd love to go back to school for a more formal education in writing, but my prospects for getting a "real writing job" once I have a degree don't seem any better than they already are. IT is another field I have experience in, but everyone and their brother does IT for a living, making me feel that I'd have a hard time finding a job in that field, degree or not.

Argh! :(

[Lorini]

You guys need career counseling. It's a very good way to figure out what careers are out there that you could do and would want to do. CC's offer career counseling but at least at my CC, you had to enroll. On the other hand an online Word course only cost $30 and that's a lot cheaper than if you went with a private company for career counseling (of course you don't have to do anything in the Word course).

[pogozorro]

No, they're useless unless your current employer requires them for advancement.

That's about it. I might still be a bit idealist about education and expect to gain something, but I really learned little other than a bit of jargon with my MBA. It really is just a bunch of common sense wrapped in a money-covered veneer.

My Poly Sci degree, while nearly useless, was a lot of fun. I learned a lot about statistics (which is why I do well in my current job), and it really taught me how to objectively approach a subject, gather information, and persuade the audience.

[Lorini]

Getting an MBA for the financial stuff is pretty good, but you have to get your MBA from a ranked school.

[pogozorro]

Texas A&M isn't horrible, but you're right. Work paid for mine.

[Robert Sharp]

I'm a big fan of higher education...but there's no reason to go back to college for an English degree, unless you have some specific career path in mind. And I'm not sure, barring Professor of English, that there are too many of those career paths that require an English degree.

One of my degrees is a BA in History. It's pretty equivalent to an English degree in worthlessness.

Actually, planning to be a professor in the humanities wouldn't be a specific career path either. It would be a suicide mission.

[Siren]

I went to the local community college right out of high school, mostly because I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and figured that it made more sense to take classes at the cheaper rate than at a University while I figured out what I wanted to do when I grew up.

I ended up dropping out my second year, mostly because I was paying for it out of pocket (and, community college or not, schools in Washington state are fucking expensive), and I still had no idea what I wanted to do. I've been in the work force since I was 18 years old, and I'm finally going back full time this upcoming year. I just filled out the FAFSA, and I'm eagerly awaiting the decisions of the Feds as far as how much money they're willing to give or loan to me.

I've decided to major in Chemistry, with a minor in Criminal Justice, so that I can do Forensic Chemistry. I'll probably continue part-time with my current employer, just in a different capacity, and do something else on the side as well.

I am so very ready for a change, and it seems that any and all positions that are out there require a Bachelor's of anything, never mind that I have 8 years of work experience. A college degree is the new high school diploma.

[fire]

I went to the local community college right out of high school, mostly because I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and figured that it made more sense to take classes at the cheaper rate than at a University while I figured out what I wanted to do when I grew up.

I ended up dropping out my second year, mostly because I was paying for it out of pocket (and, community college or not, schools in Washington state are fucking expensive), and I still had no idea what I wanted to do. I've been in the work force since I was 18 years old, and I'm finally going back full time this upcoming year. I just filled out the FAFSA, and I'm eagerly awaiting the decisions of the Feds as far as how much money they're willing to give or loan to me.

I've decided to major in Chemistry, with a minor in Criminal Justice, so that I can do Forensic Chemistry. I'll probably continue part-time with my current employer, just in a different capacity, and do something else on the side as well.

I am so very ready for a change, and it seems that any and all positions that are out there require a Bachelor's of anything, never mind that I have 8 years of work experience. A college degree is the new high school diploma.

Make sure you look into re-entry scholarships, as well as STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) scholarships, especially since you'll be a woman in a science field.

[Ephraim]

The way that I managed to go back to school as an adult:

Savings and debt.

I saved up quite a bit while working in an Retirement Savings Plan (the Canadian equivalent of the 401k). The Canadian government lets you take out (without the usual taxes being triggered) a certain amount of money each year for a couple of years as part of a program called the Lifelong Learning Plan. I used that to fund my undergraduate degree. I will have to pay it back eventually, but at that point I'll be established in a new career and hopefully making a decent living. It probably also helped that I wasn't married and didn't have kids at that point.

Now I'm a grad student, funded minimally by my supervisor until I can land some research fellowships of my own, and I've taken on some student loans. The Quebec government it reasonable about matching loans with bursaries, which you never have to pay back, so it's worth it. The debt is not particularly crushing, but I am married now so it affects more than me. My wife is on board though, having gone through a PhD program herself.