Trying to get life back in order

[PapaSmurf]

Two years ago I was on a really positive swing, getting my life together and all that jazz. I was in the best shape of my life, at my most confident, relaxed, and happy. I got a new job that paid very well and required travel. Unfortunately it involved a lot of stress and time away from home (fortunately I have no family yet). Since then everything seems to have slowly taken a turn for the worse and the one thing that's been on my mind the whole time is my weight. It's almost become an obsession and I have this weird apprehension about going back to the gym and being judged on putting it all back on, since I was sort of one of their success stories. I'd come and go, but with work and travel, I knew I'd never have to commit. Then I had an injury that kept me out for months and had me on disability leave from work, which had me depressed and I ballooned.

Last night I finally went in and I now weigh more than I did when I started working out. I am totally paralyzed by that. None of the motivational techniques I learned back then are working. It's like I feel I've let myself down so deeply and this is putting crushing pressure on myself, I'm really not used to the feeling and don't know what to do. I want to get back into shape but I am terrified of being judged, I am paralyzed by the thought that I let myself go once again and deep inside me is the nagging fear that I'll do it again. Seeing my fitness performance go from setting records on the rowing machine (I kid you not, I beat my personal trainer those years ago in a 500m race) to barely being able to do 15 minutes on the bike on a moderate setting is the worst feeling ever.

It's messed up and I can't remember the last time I felt this bad. Maybe when I was on the verge of flunking a key math course in college?

I feel as if I need someone to tell me it's ok, that it's alright to hit rock bottom again, but who is that someone? And why do I need this before I can accept it?

I really need help and I don't even know where to begin here.

[WarrenM]

Dave Ramsey said something about finances that is sort of related to this. I'll paraphrase:

"Would it have been better if you hadn't slid back and lost the ground you gained? Obviously. But once you're done with the pity party, you need to pick yourself up and start at step 1 and get yourself into the best position you can."

I know losing progress sucks and I know you must be demotivated but realistically there's only way out of this, and that's forward motion.

[Tim James]

I was expecting the end of this post to be "And that's when I noticed the damage to my bumper. How much will it take to get fixed?"

If you're embarrassed or frozen about a life change, start small. It's the new year so everyone is itching to go, but you don't have to jump in with two feet. Go for a walk.

[Wallapuctus]

I feel as if I need someone to tell me it's ok, that it's alright to hit rock bottom again, but who is that someone? And why do I need this before I can accept it?

It's ok, you'll recover.

Did that help?

If so, stop the pity party, pick yourself up, and get back to doing what you want to do. Don't be ashamed of where you are, take pride in the fact that you have the ability and discipline to change it. It's not like you're doing anything you haven't done before right? You know it's possible, so go do it.

[Kael]

There are a million different platitudes I could offer, but in the end you are at an advantage because you know what you want to accomplish, you know how to do it and you know you can do it.

And fuck what other people think.

[Raife]

Spend more time with Jokey Smurf. Or maybe Smurfette.

[mrmolecule88]

On a practical side, get a chubby friend to go the gym with you. That way you'll not only have their support but you'll also look better in comparison!

[Coca Cola Zero]

This sounds like some kind of motivational speaker bullshit, but my experience is thus:


Just focus on taking the first few steps, the rest will take care of itself.

This goes equally well for any challenging thing you are starting or restarting, whether it is exercise, a big project at work, whatever. Once you see the first bits of progress you'll snap right back to the successful mindset you were in before. Fear of starting a big project is the #1 reason some people never complete a big project.

Obviously, in your specific case, also be very careful not to reinjure whatever it is you injured.

[tromik]

This thread needs more Bill Dungsroman.

[Not One Of Us]

Losing progress? Reminds me of game crash in an RPG or something, with your last save being about three hours ago. Boy that shit is depressing; you don't even WANT to play anymore. Then you give it a day, load up the last save, and continue on.

The plus side is you already know how to do the shit because you've already done it, and thus you know you CAN do it - all it takes now is doing it.

[Mark Asher]

Stop weighing yourself and focus on eating healthy and getting more exercise, even if at first that's just a walk each day. It only takes a few weeks to get back in the kind of shape that lets you work out strenuously.

And really, don't step on the scale. You'll know it when you lose a few pounds. It's not about how much you weigh as it is about how you feel about yourself.

[Jojo]

It IS OK, it IS alright to hit rock bottom again, it's human. You've already done it before, so you KNOW you can do it again! You had a lot of stress and you went back to old ways of eating and ended up gaining weight. That's not a crime, its just what happens.

[Ed Solomon]

I really need help and I don't even know where to begin here.

I know where to begin, your user name. Right now it's a real motivation killer. How can anyone named PapaSmurf not be morbidly obese?

You are no longer PapaSmurf. PapaSmurf, the overweight guy who seeks advice on gaming sites, is dead. You are now Steely Bastard, a stone cold killer.

PM TomChick now and ask to change your name.

[RepoMan]

You are no longer PapaSmurf. PapaSmurf, the overweight guy who seeks advice on gaming sites, is dead. You are now Steely Bastard, a stone cold killer.
http://swag-city.com/images/jiu23/211492.jpg

[Ed Solomon]

Man, the dark, blue heart of the internet is a scary place.

[PapaSmurf]

Haha thanks all. The joking around makes it better.

[Jazar]

You've done it before. You can do it again.

[jpinard]

My suggestion is watch some funny cartoons and get on a treadmill.

You can watch some fantastic stuff while burning calories. My personal favorites/suggestions (though I don't exercize) would be Venture Bros, Robot Chicken, Titan Maximum, the Brak Show, and for more violent fare - Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Metalocolypse.

Just rent them all from Netflix and watch in sequence. I also love Home Movies, but that's too calm for working out.

[Ed Solomon]

Steely Bastard does not watch TV while he works out. He's all warrior preisthood, baby. Laser focus.

[Mightynute]

Steely Bastard does not watch TV while he works out. He's all warrior preisthood, baby. Laser focus.

Metalocalypse is permitted by the warrior priesthood as appropriate "working out" stimuli. It's all in the rulebook.

It is also recommended for Steely Bastard to stand under a waterfall for an hour a day and crack walnuts in between his knuckles.

[RickH]

Stop weighing yourself and focus on eating healthy and getting more exercise, even if at first that's just a walk each day. It only takes a few weeks to get back in the kind of shape that lets you work out strenuously.

This is good advice, the numbers are getting to you. Just do what you know you need to do and don't worry about numbers right now.

[nutsak]

Maybe not safe for work but good advise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

[Ed Solomon]

Metalocalypse is permitted by the warrior priesthood as appropriate "working out" stimuli. It's all in the rulebook.


In the pussy rulebook. In the Bastard rulebook, the only appropriate workout stimului is metal or p-funk coming from a ratty-ass boombox.

[Demon G Sides]

With exposed wiring no less.

[Ed Solomon]

With exposed wiring no less.

Technically, duct-taped does not count as exposed.

[Mightynute]

In the pussy rulebook. In the Bastard rulebook, the only appropriate workout stimului is metal or p-funk coming from a ratty-ass boombox.

The Council of Bastards will stipulate that motivational application of Dethklok is to be permitted so long as it is on cassette tape and not some pansy-ass compact discs.

[Demon G Sides]

Technically, duct-taped does not count as exposed.

Fuck that dude. No electrical tape, if that cord touches water everything dies.

[Ed Solomon]

Fuck that dude. No electrical tape, if that cord touches water everything dies.

Bastards sweat freely when they work out. That's why you duct-tape anything shiny.

[Kaigen]

At my highest, I weighed 335 lbs. At my lowest, I weighed 199 lbs. That was just last October, while I was training for a half marathon. After the Half I was a little burned out on running, winter was coming on and the weather was getting colder, I had started taking classes again while working a full time job, the holidays were well on their way and a lot of delicious but unhealthy food was being freely offered to me. In just a few months I put back on a surprising amount of weight. Enough in such a small period of time that it scared the shit out of me. Today, I'm back at my best habits - running regularly, weather or daylight be damned, eating healthy (while still allowing room to indulge) and I feel great.

I was lucky that I caught myself early on, but it made me realize how ridiculously easy it would be to relapse. There is no, "I'm fit now, I can stop." It's a never-ending battle. You shouldn't be down on yourself for falling out of it, Smurf, because it is work to maintain and so easy to let go. But one thing in this entire process that I've discovered is that the body has a remarkable ability to adapt and recover - getting started is always a huge emotional physical toll, but it's a hill that you can always get over.

[Djscman]

Read this thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=479197), especially post #12. Good luck.

[Raife]

But are you fatter than a cardboard cutout of John Sansker?

[PapaSmurf]

At my highest, I weighed 335 lbs. At my lowest, I weighed 199 lbs. That was just last October, while I was training for a half marathon. After the Half I was a little burned out on running, winter was coming on and the weather was getting colder, I had started taking classes again while working a full time job, the holidays were well on their way and a lot of delicious but unhealthy food was being freely offered to me. In just a few months I put back on a surprising amount of weight. Enough in such a small period of time that it scared the shit out of me. Today, I'm back at my best habits - running regularly, weather or daylight be damned, eating healthy (while still allowing room to indulge) and I feel great.

I was lucky that I caught myself early on, but it made me realize how ridiculously easy it would be to relapse. There is no, "I'm fit now, I can stop." It's a never-ending battle. You shouldn't be down on yourself for falling out of it, Smurf, because it is work to maintain and so easy to let go. But one thing in this entire process that I've discovered is that the body has a remarkable ability to adapt and recover - getting started is always a huge emotional physical toll, but it's a hill that you can always get over.
That's inspiring, brother.

And yes, once you have the weight, it's right easy to put it back on. Fat cells never go away, they just empty - or so I've been told.

[Anaxagoras]

That's inspiring, brother.

And yes, once you have the weight, it's right easy to put it back on. Fat cells never go away, they just empty - or so I've been told.
I don't know if that's true, but I do know that the primary reason you put weight back on is because your body thinks its maximum weight is its new "normal" weight, and when you're under that "normal" weight it will conserve energy in an attempt to get back to that weight. The energy is conserved in ways that you often don't notice; you fidget less, you unconsciously take fewer steps, you might take more naps, etc. If you can keep up your physical activity, (walking & whatnot) it's not too hard to keep the weight off. Well... not too hard, relatively speaking.

My doctors told me that it takes anywhere from a couple months (rarely) to a couple years for your body to reset its "normal" weight to your slimmer svelte self.

[RepoMan]

I'm lucky that I'm 40 and have not yet put on really any extra poundage. I go to the gym at least once a week (trying to get that up to 3x/week) and I weigh myself every single time, and if I've put on a pound or two, I just cut back on the snacks/desserts/whatever for a week or so until it goes back off. It's surprisingly easy to keep one's weight stable if one pays attention to it and just doesn't stuff oneself whenever it's creeping up there. Or at least that's my experience.

I hear periodic stories from people saying "I just fell off the wagon for a few months and gained X lbs" where X is some multiple of 10, and I wonder, is it really that tough to just hop on a scale every so often and pay attention? If you totally give up on any and all self-control for months, then yeah, you're gonna slide right on down to tubbiness. But that's not your only option....

I have some serious incentives to keep the flab off, though -- I'm unbelievably ectomorphic (6'4" and 160 lbs.) and I have little girl wrists, so if I got fat I would look like a pencil stuck through the middle of a cream donut, which would be BAD BAD BAD. So vanity is helping me here.

[PapaSmurf]

I don't know if that's true, but I do know that the primary reason you put weight back on is because your body thinks its maximum weight is its new "normal" weight, and when you're under that "normal" weight it will conserve energy in an attempt to get back to that weight. The energy is conserved in ways that you often don't notice; you fidget less, you unconsciously take fewer steps, you might take more naps, etc. If you can keep up your physical activity, (walking & whatnot) it's not too hard to keep the weight off. Well... not too hard, relatively speaking.

My doctors told me that it takes anywhere from a couple months (rarely) to a couple years for your body to reset its "normal" weight to your slimmer svelte self.
I totally fucking believe that!

I've always said my body likes a certain weight and a surprising amount of people agree with me. You hit that weight, you stop being hungry.

[Shadari]

PapaSmurf, you shouldn't have ballooned while you were injured. You need to get your eating habits into line. Maybe stop drinking soda then drop the mayo from your sandwiches then drop the processed carbs.. eat whole wheat bread, and get into the habit of eating good snacks like carrots instead of twinkies and learn to eat good food and you won't get fat when you're hurt and can't workout.

[Anaxagoras]

PapaSmurf, you shouldn't have ballooned while you were injured. You need to get your eating habits into line.

This is wrong. It's perfectly normal (although not desireable, obviously) to gain weight from an injury. Same caloric intake + reduced exercise = weight gain.

But you'll take it off again, Papa, like others said. Just go back to your old habits (when you were thin) as much as possible and you'll probably be fine. A surprisingly useful trick that they have me doing in my current weight loss program is simple meal tracking. Just write down everything you eat, and ideally you should also record the calories in the food. It helps you keep track of how much you eat, and even more importantly, if you notice your appetite raging out of control, you can always revert your eating habits back to a previous week to get things under control. It's amazingly helpful.

[Brendan]

I am in a similar situation. Early last year I was in great shape and feeling the best I've ever felt in my life. Then came work/baby stress and I went for a ball of shit. This year I've started going back to gym and I can do half of what I used to. It's demoralising as hell. At least I don't give a fuck about what anyone else thinks at the gym. As I see it gym is where I go to work out - not impress random strangers.

[Shadari]

This is wrong. It's perfectly normal (although not desireable, obviously) to gain weight from an injury. Same caloric intake + reduced exercise = weight gain.
It is NOT wrong. Personally, I work out pretty damned hard, but I guarantee you if I get hurt and can't workout, I will not get fat, because I know how to eat right... mostly anyway, I admit I have my weaknesses. Anyway, it's way easier to cut 200 calories from your diet than it is to burn it through exercise. You can run or walk 2 miles or drop that twinkie, it's up to you....

[Raife]

Yeah, but it probably depends on the person. Personally, my appetite is completely related to my metabolism, so I don't gain weight if I stop working out. If I go more than a week without, I'll start to lose weight.

[PapaSmurf]

PapaSmurf, you shouldn't have ballooned while you were injured. You need to get your eating habits into line. Maybe stop drinking soda then drop the mayo from your sandwiches then drop the processed carbs.. eat whole wheat bread, and get into the habit of eating good snacks like carrots instead of twinkies and learn to eat good food and you won't get fat when you're hurt and can't workout.
That's exactly the kind of thing I DON'T want to hear. I'm depressed and feel bad enough about myself as it is. Did you even read the first post?

I know what I did wrong.

I don't need people telling me what I did wrong.

I've spent a lifetime struggling with my weight with family who constantly made an issue of it. I finally got it together only to have it slip away. The last thing I need is to be judged. I posted here and explicitly stated I feel paralyzed by my regression and just need someone to tell me it's OK and I'll get back on track. Other people's stories motivated me. You just blamed me when I know I have nothing else to blame, ultimately. Learn to give advice before you give it.

[Kael]

In all fairness PapaSmurf, talk to friends if you want more compassionate feedback. Posting publically on the internet about an issue is going to get a mix of responses. That's good and bad.

This is not a support group, but there is good advice here. You just need a thick enough skin to disregard the feedback that you don't like.

I'm all for people being more considerate in their posts. But Shadari's was trying to be helpful and did take time out of his day to respond to you.

edit: I am glad to see you edited your post to be less attacking

[Flowers]

Weight is an interesting, but ultimately illusory metric by which to judge yourself. Upon how many childhood nemeses have you revenged yourself? When you're hurt and cannot excercise is a great time to catch up on vendettas you have sworn. Did you know people on crutches tend to get a lot of sympathy, and a neckbrace can hide an entire squeezer of Rossignol?

[Anaxagoras]

It is NOT wrong. Personally, I work out pretty damned hard, but I guarantee you if I get hurt and can't workout, I will not get fat, because I know how to eat right... mostly anyway, I admit I have my weaknesses. Anyway, it's way easier to cut 200 calories from your diet than it is to burn it through exercise. You can run or walk 2 miles or drop that twinkie, it's up to you....

No.. I'm sorry. You ARE wrong.

Let me put it this way: Are you a trained physician? No? What's your reason for believing it? Oh. Your own personal experiences. Great. Here, allow me to advance an alternate hypothesis which several trained physicians have told to me which takes into account people with your experiences, as well as other people who have different habits/lifestyles. Some people (usually those who already have their weight under control) naturally reduce the amount of food they eat when their exercise levels go down. These people don't gain weight when injured. For many people, which (apparently) includes Papasmurf, they don't have such a clear handle on their food intake. When these people reduce their exercise levels, they maintain their original eating habits. (or possibly even eat more) They're not necessarily eating "twinkies", or whatever insulting food you care to name. They could be eating perfectly healthy diets... that contain too many calories for their new activity level. And voila! Weight gain!

By the way.. it *isn't* necessarily easier to lose 200 calories from your diet than it is to lose it by exercise. Directly burning calories through exercise isn't the only way that exercise contributes to weight loss. It also increases your metabolism, so you burn more calories at all times. Exercise also helps control appetite. So in Papasmurf's case, starting an exercise regime would probably help him more than diet adjustment, although both should probably done at the same time.

Now quit being a douche, admit your ignorance (if only to yourself), and shut the fuck up.*

*Since I'm making requests that I know won't be granted, I also wish for a pony, and I want to be the prettiest princess. Make it so, Fairy Shadari!



I'm all for people being more considerate in their posts. But Shadari's was trying to be helpful and did take time out of his day to respond to you.
Shadari was being a self-important douche that was acting the part of a know-it-all despite his ignorance. There's a difference between "trying to be helpful" and "dishing out advice in an insulting manner." A huge difference.

[Anaxagoras]

I've spent a lifetime struggling with my weight with family who constantly made an issue of it. I finally got it together only to have it slip away. The last thing I need is to be judged. I posted here and explicitly stated I feel paralyzed by my regression and just need someone to tell me it's OK and I'll get back on track. Other people's stories motivated me. You just blamed me when I know I have nothing else to blame, ultimately. Learn to give advice before you give it.

It's not a moral failing to gain weight, although jackasses like Shadari will often try to make you feel like it is. There's no need to blame anyone, including yourself. What you need to do is figure out what choices you've made led to your new weight, and then try to make different choices to slim down. It's not really about willpower, or strength of character. Just... notice what activity (which is, essentially, exercise) you do, what you eat, and why you eat. And see if you can't change some of those habits. It sounds like you did it once, so you probably already have a blueprint for making the changes. Go back to those habits as much as possible. And ignore people that try to turn it into YOU FAILED. Generally, they're ignorant, and are just popping off at the mouth. And really... why listen to ignorant people? Talk to your doctor. Talk to a personal trainer or a nutritionist, if you have the means to do so. Once you have information, it's a *lot* easier to get the needed motivation and make the choices to make your life what you want it to be.

[merryprankster]

Yeah, you haven't failed at anything, life is a continuum of ups and downs. However, wanting to change an aspect of your life and not doing so because you are wallowing in self pity is pretty pathetic. Don't sweat putting on the weight, and who cares what others think, but if your not happy about it do something about it.

[MattKeil]

PapaSmurf, you shouldn't have ballooned while you were injured. You need to get your eating habits into line.

People like you are why people like PapaSmurf are depressed and intimidated by the idea of starting a regime again after slipping out of it. Thanks for letting the thread know how totally awesome you are, though.

[Shadari]

That's exactly the kind of thing I DON'T want to hear. I'm depressed and feel bad enough about myself as it is. Did you even read the first post?

I know what I did wrong.

I don't need people telling me what I did wrong.

I've spent a lifetime struggling with my weight with family who constantly made an issue of it. I finally got it together only to have it slip away. The last thing I need is to be judged. I posted here and explicitly stated I feel paralyzed by my regression and just need someone to tell me it's OK and I'll get back on track. Other people's stories motivated me. You just blamed me when I know I have nothing else to blame, ultimately. Learn to give advice before you give it.
Sorry man, I wasn't meaning to be hard on you and I don't think you're a failure in any way. You put on some weight, and it's got you down. A lot of us have been down that road before -- I sure have, and I was just tying to help. For me it really was just a matter of a little common sense and some discipline. I can see you're quite sensitive about this issue and I shouldn't have been so callous to throw out generic advice like I did. Since you know what you did wrong, I'm going to assume you know what you need to do to get back on track.

[Shadari]

People like you are why people like PapaSmurf are depressed and intimidated by the idea of starting a regime again after slipping out of it. Thanks for letting the thread know how totally awesome you are, though.
At least you were more concise than Anaxagoras. I appreciate that! If you're going to call me an asshole, please do so in 1000 words or less. ;)

[PapaSmurf]

Thanks Shadari.

Thanks everyone.

[Strato]

One caveat first up, I've never had a weight problem. I attribute that to a fast metabolism, or maybe (though I've never looked) a voracious population of parasites in my gut.

Like you Papasmurf, I have a job which meant I was never really able to commit to gym work as much as I want, a result of constant travel. I was also fairly weak, and it was quite intimidating going to a gym and struggling to do well benching just the bar, let alone adding weights. What turned it around though was one on one personal training sessions. I wasn't surrounded by people (supposedly to me) judging me, I basically had a trainer telling me what to do, pushing me harder, and we would build up a good relationship where I was getting stronger, more confident and cared less about what other people thought. My whole body image changed, and I saw myself, and proved to myself after many weeks with the rapid improvement that I was a lean mean fighting machine.

It is understandable if personal training sessions aren't for you due to financial reaons, or otherwise. Everyone is different. But the real point to the story is that the first step is the hardest. I wasted weeks simply thinking about making that dreaded phonecall to make an appointment to become a client, and yet, doing so was the best move I made.

Little smurfy steps are the way and I'm sure you'll soon be feeling smurfabulous about yourself. The first step isn't easy, but unshackle yourself from that, and the second step will be easier, as will the third, and so on. You've made the first step going to the gym, and while weight is foremost in your mind, you were at the gym and you were able to leave without a group gathering outside to laugh and heckle you about your weight. What do you think the chances are that this group will appear? Nil. What do you think the chances are that you will do better on the exercise bike or rowing machine? Pretty damn good. It is easy to lose tone and fitness, but thankfully it isn't impossible to return to good shape.

Just like it says with the Nike motto (I think) "Just do it."

[BobJustBob]

If you used to go to the gym regularly then you know that everyone works hard. Whether it's the fifty year old woman struggling to lift ten pounds or the guy with forearms bigger than your head doing curls with the hundred pounders, everyone scales to their ability. So it doesn't matter if the number on the weight is lower than it was in the past -- all that matters is that you're there and you're getting it done.

[Ed Solomon]

I still think the root of the problem is the name PapaSmurf. Just writing it down here makes me want to go eat a Ho Ho and take a nap.

I can't see how you'll ever lose weight until you change your name to Steely Bastard.

[Rward]

Read this thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=479197), especially post #12. Good luck.

Awesome post!

[Slainte Mhath]

While everyone here has been pretty cool and supportive for the most part, seeking motivation and advice on QT3 is probably not the best way to acheive or maintain your personal health and fitness goals.

At the risk of being labeled a viral marketer and/or incurring the Wrath of Tom(tm), I'm going to redirect you to another website that can provide a lot of what you're asking for in your original post. Sparkpeople (www.sparkpeople.com) is a free health and fitness support website founded and run by a close personal friend of mine. I won't go into a sales pitch or anything, but the site is like a social engineering health and fitness site, basically giving you both the information you need to get healthy and motivation in the form of thousands of other people trying to acheive the same goal. People seem to love it, as it's grown quite popular over the past few years.

[Flowers]

I've always been a fan of this site. When it comes to losing weight, you should keep your goals and methods in perspective. (http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/index.html)

[marxeil]

My probably useless 2 cents regarding exercise - remember that getting yourself out of the house is the hard part. Once you start the actual activity (jogging, cycling, gym) you have fun and feel great (unless you are averse to physical activity. some people are but you don't seem to be one).
You only need to get pass those 10 minutes of getting out - the rest is fun!

[PapaSmurf]

I've always been a fan of this site. When it comes to losing weight, you should keep your goals and methods in perspective. (http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/index.html)
http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/photo_9.html

Meth gives you hair? I'm on that like white on rice.

[Dave Markell]

It's almost become an obsession and I have this weird apprehension about going back to the gym and being judged on putting it all back on, since I was sort of one of their success stories.

Find a new gym. Not kidding. You want to eliminate any excuses you might have for not exercising, and this is a biggie.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Read this thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=479197), especially post #12. Good luck.

lol

..

[marxeil]

This is prophetic:


And then, they'll just lay you off one day when an inevitable recession hits.

[Rimbo]

how did i miss that the first time 'round?

oh, yeah... i don't normally go read these threads. in fact i only came in here because i saw bill d had just posted to it, and then was disappointed that all he posted was a TIE fighter.

[RyanMichael]

Read this thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=479197), especially post #12. Good luck.

Bless you, Dungsroman.

[lesslucid]

You don't want to start from where you are, you want to start from somewhere that's closer to where you want to go. But that's not on your list of options; your list of options is, start from where you are, or, don't start. So, wherever you are, start from there. It'll get better.