NFL: St. Louis looks like crap

[Xaroc]

Mark did they skip preseason in St. Louis? I like the Rams but wow do they look disorganized. How long until the Ram faithfull call for Marc Bulger or Mike Martz's head on a platter?

-- Xaroc

[hido]

Green Bay also looks terrible, as do the Brown and Colt offenses (those are the two games I'm getting right now).

[Warlord of Mars]

What do you expect? It's the opening of the season. The gameplans weren't used during preseason (to avoid giving opponents advance scouting), so some teams are going to look a little rusty using those at gamespeed.

As for the Rams, the Giants defense looked underrated coming into this season, so I'm not surprised they're doing well at least during the first half.

I really doubt Charles Rogers is going to get 32 TD catches this year. The Arizona secondary is making him look like the second coming of Randy Moss.

[Mark Asher]

Yeah, the Rams didn't play well today. Poor lineplay on the offense, Warner didn't protect the ball well, and Martz made a bad decision in not kicking the field goal. The Rams also were on the wrong end of a terrible miscall on the Barber non-fumble near the goal line. The Rams would have had an easy TD out of that and pulled to within 3 with about 10 to play.

The big story was the Rams offensive line getting manhandled by the Giants front four. That always takes the Rams out of their offense when the defense gets good pressure on Warner without having to blitz. I actually was a bit encouraged by the way Warner threw the ball -- he had the zip he was missing last year. Unfortunately he didn't have the accuracy he usually has, but just about any QB is going to have problems getting knocked around the way he was. The big mistake on his part was in not protecting the ball better.

Beating the Giants in NY wasn't going to be easy either. They look like they could be one of the premier teams in the NFL this year. Very good defense and playmakers on offense, though their offense didn't do a lot today, they did enough.

Other noteworthy games early in the day -- New England laying down against Buffalo (Brady had a terrible day), the Chargers not playing well against the Chiefs, the Packers losing at Lambeau to the Vikings, and the Texans beating the Fins. Parity, I guess.

[Mark Asher]

I really doubt Charles Rogers is going to get 32 TD catches this year. The Arizona secondary is making him look like the second coming of Randy Moss.

Hey, Arizona against Detroit -- it's the Toilet Bowl. You can't judge anything about either team by this game.

[Robert Sharp]

Yeah, week one is always crazy. But it screwed up my fantasy points! I started Warner and Edgerrin James, and neither was used effectively, mostly because of poor play by other members of the teams.

Sadly, I also sat the Bills defense, since the Patriots have dominated the Bills lately. That was a BIG mistake. I'll probably lose week one, but that's ok. There's still a lot of football to be played!

[Contrai]

I can't believe the Dolphins lost to the Texans 21-20.... They haven't lost a season opening game in a long time.

[Bub, Andrew]

Green Bay also looks terrible, as do the Brown and Colt offenses (those are the two games I'm getting right now).

Until the second half... when they put up 22 points unanswered (despite losing their two top WRs). That injury to Driver looks bad though. Very disheartening.

[Robert Sharp]

THE TITANS ARE HERE...GET OUT OF OUR WAY!

[bmulligan]

I really doubt Charles Rogers is going to get 32 TD catches this year. The Arizona secondary is making him look like the second coming of Randy Moss.

Hey he had 4 catches and 2 touchdowns- not bad for a rookie in his first game. Besides, doubling up WR can leave a tight end wide open !!

Go Lions !

[Bernie_Dy]

Yeah, the Rams didn't play well today. Poor lineplay on the offense, Warner didn't protect the ball well, and Martz made a bad decision in not kicking the field goal. The Rams also were on the wrong end of a terrible miscall on the Barber non-fumble near the goal line. The Rams would have had an easy TD out of that and pulled to within 3 with about 10 to play.

Yeah, it was an ugly game from the Rams, but the call you mentioned might have made a difference, if Mike Martz was also thinking straight for other parts of the game.

Now I hear Warner had a concussion...don't know when it happened, but if you can throw a 68% completion day with a concussion, then you're a better QB than most. Just hold on to the damn ball!

[Bub, Andrew]

Now I hear Warner had a concussion...don't know when it happened, but if you can throw a 68% completion day with a concussion, then you're a better QB than most.

Or you have several A-list targets. I can't believe he kept playing with a concussion though. Is he nuts? Did he not tell his coaches? Or didn't they care? Why do that for half the game when you have Bulger as backup?

[Warlord of Mars]

Martz stated all offseason long that Warner was his guy, so I'm sure he asked Kurt if he could play with the concussion. It happened during the 1st quarter. Still, six fumbles! Cripes. Somebody get him some orange juice.


Bmulligan, yeah, I know, the kid's good. Pretty darned good. I'm just questioning how good he will be out of the gate. If Duane Starks hadn't gotten injured for the Cards in preseason, I wonder if he would have contained Chuckie a little more.

Asher, I think the Toilet Bowl would be the Bears-Cowboys. P.U. I'd rather take up knitting or listen to Koontz talk about Blakemore all day long than watch that game!

[Bub, Andrew]

Nobody is supposed to play with a concussion according to NFL guidelines and the AMA. So I'm betting Martz either didn't ask, or didn't care. What an awful risk to take with your aging and, imo, increasingly fragile QB! Especially when you can easily give him the time to rest and cling to him next week because you have a talented and successful, and young, backup. I think Martz is a bad coach, but I've said as much before. Warner spent last night in the hospital... not good St. Louis fans. Not good.

Personally I think Martz is committed to Warner because he's afraid of the Goblin Queen.

http://www.czabe.com/graphics/gallery/Bizarre/mrskurtalice_sm.jpg

[awdougherty]

I think Warner better go down with his annual pinky injury soon so he doesn't die from brain swelling.

[Jack]

Warner should have either been pulled from the game or told someone about the headaches -- if he kept it to himself. The Rams played the game with arrogance (going for it on fourth-and-long twice), seemingly saying "We're the Rams. We can DO this." And someone seemed to forget that it's a team effort; it's not the Kurt Warner show. He played like hell and any other quarterback would have been benched, especially considering how shitty he was last season.

Warner might come around to his old self, but playing with a concusssion smacks of silly macho heroics -- as opposed to typical macho heriocs, such as playing with broken bones. Some of the Rams' failure could be laid at the feet of the offensive line, but Warner was holding onto the ball for too long.

[Mark Asher]

Although doctors examined Warner at halftime, he was cleared to play and was not diagnosed with a concussion at the time. He actually threw the ball better in the second half, completing 19 of 27 attempts for 186 yards and a touchdown.

No one knew he had a concussion. He threw for nearly 200 yards.

I don't think going for it on 4th down is a sign of arrogance, either. I think you're projecting a bit there. I think it was a bad call the first time Martz did it, but perhaps not the second time.

As I said, I watched the entire game and Warner threw the ball with good zip. His accurracy was a bit off on several throws, but he was being pounded by the rush -- most QBs are going to start to have some bad throws when the rush is severe.

His real problem was holding onto the ball too long and holding it cocked down at his hip. He's got to get rid of it and protect it better.

[Jack]

I thought the first fourth-down call was just a bad call, but when they did it a second time, it was too much. Two mistakes like that in a row? They had plenty of time to make some points, but opted to go for the touchdown. Granted, I am projecting a bit, but obviously Martz believed his offense could do it in spite of a lackluster performance.

Warner did look good at times, but then even mediocre quarterbacks have a good run every now and then. He was under pressure, but much of that was his fault. Maybe he's rusty or maybe it was the concussion or maybe he was eager to show he still had the magic. Six fumbles after a six-game losing streak last season just doesn't look all that good.

To be fair, Faulk also had a bad day -- but isn't getting nearly the amount of flak Warner is receiving.

[Robert Sharp]

No one knew he had a concussion. He threw for nearly 200 yards.


Actually, he threw for 340 yds, 1TD and 1 INT. However, the fumbles negate most of that. I thought he looked ok throwing, when he was given the time. That OL that was so praised in the offseason looked like crap. Warner is a pocket passer. He has incredible accuracy (yes, better than Bulger..better than just about anybody!) when he has the time to use it. He did, as you say, hold the ball too long though. I wonder if his mental clock was out of sorts because of the concussion.

[Alan Dunkin]

I've been hearing watercooler remarks today that Martz did in fact know (as the doctors told him) he had a concussion and left him in because he answered the questions/tests, etc. That true?

--- Alan

[Rob de los Reyes]

Hey, let's get a little respect for the Texans. For those who didn't see what was probably the best game of the weekend (tough play on both sides of the ball, several lead changes, last minute field goal), the Texans probably should have won that game by another 6 points or so but for a drop here and a miss there. The Texans' front line gave up 0 sacks to the Thomas-Seau defense of Miami and kept Ricky Williams in check for three quarters. If you didn't see the game, you're apt to think that it was just a case of Miami falling apart, but that absolutely wasn't what happened. I think our local sports team has a reasonable chance at a five-win season. Someone Texas proud back me up.

On the fantasy front, thank you Priest Holmes for validating my much-maligned number one pick.

[Woolen Horde]

Glad Miami lost to the Texans. The amount of hubris in that "I'll see you after practice" jab at the Texans was just jaw-dropping. I'm sure that Dolphin player is getting his ass chewed out for that one. "Hey you asshole, they pay really good players to play for NFL teams other than the Dolphins, ya know?"

Jeezus, every player that makes it to the Big Time is a serious player. There are no gimmee's in the NFL. Well, except for the Bengals, but still... Respect Your Opponent. You're not playing some piss-ant Division IIA school in college. The players on the worst NFL team are still some of the best athletes around. You don't make it to this level by not being one.

[Warlord of Mars]

I've been hearing watercooler remarks today that Martz did in fact know (as the doctors told him) he had a concussion and left him in because he answered the questions/tests, etc. That true?

--- Alan

I think Warner faked it. Martz admitted after the hospitalization that Warner did seem "confused about the plays being called in". I think it was a case of the player wanting to stay in the game and the coach putting on the blinders to prove the media wrong. It backfired, obviously.

Woolen, I thought that was pretty disrespectful of Miami to say that, too. That's the worst kind of bulletin board material - saying inflammatory stuff just moments before the game. No wonder the Texans were fired up the whole game. It was fresh and on their minds all day.

[Mark Asher]

Warner got examined by the docs at halftime, but he passed the exam, answered every question right, etc. He had a mild headache.

In other words, they knew he had been dinged, but there was no evidence of a concussion. After the game his symptons got worse. He became nauseated (as if six fumbles wouldn't do it!) and his headache became more severe. At they point he was examined again and they said he had a concussion. Martz said after the game that he wished he had taken him out in the second half in retrospect, but again they didn't know he had the concussion at that point (and he threw for nearly 200 yards in the second half).

Other than the fumbling, Warner was pretty effective. I think he was holding onto the ball too long in some instances. In others, he didn't get the protection he needed.

[Bub, Andrew]

And... he's not starting next week. Thanks for clearing it up Mark. But, yeesh, the QB controversy deepens, again, in St. Louis.

Can we talk about Lawyer Malloy now? Or do we need a new thread?

[balut]

On the fantasy front, thank you Priest Holmes for validating my much-maligned number one pick.

What the hell league are you in that would malign picking Priest Holmes with the number one pick? First round picks should've all gone to Priest Holmes, Clinton Portis, Ricky Williams, LaDainian Tomlinson, Shaun Alexander, and the like. QBs should go late in the 1st if all the other top-tier RBs are gone, or sometime in the 2nd round.

[balut]

Oh, and enough of this "Kurt Warner played like crap" talk - the fact of the matter is, the Giants D p0wnz0red the Rams.

[Xaroc]

Oh, and enough of this "Kurt Warner played like crap" talk - the fact of the matter is, the Giants D p0wnz0red the Rams.

But Warner was really careless with his handling of the ball. Even if they were rushing him he should have protected it better and known when to just take the sack. The Giants did put a lot of pressure on him and played very well but 6 fumbles is inexcusable.

-- Xaroc

[Mark Asher]

Oh, and enough of this "Kurt Warner played like crap" talk - the fact of the matter is, the Giants D p0wnz0red the Rams.

But Warner was really careless with his handling of the ball. Even if they were rushing him he should have protected it better and known when to just take the sack. The Giants did put a lot of pressure on him and played very well but 6 fumbles is inexcusable.

-- Xaroc

Yeah, the fumbles weren't really the result of the Giants defensive play as much as they were of Warner not protecting the ball. These weren't bone-jarring hits that cause the ball to pop out, but merely slapping the ball out of his hand.

I think the Giants played better, but not by a wide margin. If Warner had protected the ball, if the refs had properly ruled the incomplete pass to Barber as the fumble it really was....

[Brian Koontz]

The Giants did put a lot of pressure on him and played very well but 6 fumbles is inexcusable.

Nah... now NINE fumbles, that's inexcusable.

...

Err... you meant in a *game*? I thought you meant in an entire season.

Kurt Warner should never be allowed on a football field again.

[Alan Dunkin]

You can still play effectively after a concussion - I remember when Aikman got banged hard in a helmet-to-helmet out of the pocket, bit off part of his tongue, got a mild concussion from it.. next play he throws a perfect TD pass. Then he was taken out, mostly because the trainers realized what the hell a concussion was.

They should have known better. A read some from the St. Louis Dispatch and see that Martz' apparently didn't know for sure, but when your QB is having problems like that - duh - what else could it be. It's not diarrhea or an upset stomach or a bad pinkie.

Then again, it sure seemed like Martz himself was suffering from a concussion. Those 4th down plays were nutty. When you're in a town blessed - blessed - with two good QBs, you gotta take the first out if he shows signs of injury. Hell, I know - I wish we had one good QB. Leaving one after all that will just spell disaster and embarassment.

--- Alan

[Mark Asher]

They should have known better. A read some from the St. Louis Dispatch and see that Martz' apparently didn't know for sure, but when your QB is having problems like that - duh - what else could it be. It's not diarrhea or an upset stomach or a bad pinkie.

He threw for nearly 200 yards in the second half. He didn't look out of it or anything.

The concussion didn't seem to cause any performance problems, other than Warner not getting the first few plays sent in, and at the time they thought it was the headset in his helmet. The only criticisms I have of Warner are that he fumbled far too much, the result of sometimes holding onto the ball too long and usually not protecting it properly.

[Jason Levine]

I think there's a special place in hell for whoever selected the Rams' new uniforms and whoever decided to put the Browns back in orange pants. Ugh!

[Alan Dunkin]

He threw for nearly 200 yards in the second half. He didn't look out of it or anything.

Yeah but as I said, I saw Aikman throw a perfect TD pass after getting knocked around big-time, suffering a mild concussion, then after he came back off they realized he was suffering from the concussion and he was taken out of the game. Just because you're concussed doesn't mean you can throw the ball, but it does bring other things to question.

The concussion didn't seem to cause any performance problems, other than Warner not getting the first few plays sent in, and at the time they thought it was the headset in his helmet. The only criticisms I have of Warner are that he fumbled far too much, the result of sometimes holding onto the ball too long and usually not protecting it properly.

He looked somewhat indecisive in quite a few plays, moreso than one normally would think or act. According to a Dispatch columnist (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/Jeff+Gordon/5B037ECDFDB5899B86256D9B000F4E0E?OpenDocument&Headline=Why+stick+with+a+woozy+Warner+when+Bulger +is+available%3F):

Rams coach Mike Martz admitted that quarterback Kurt Warner didn't seem the same after getting pummeled in the first quarter. He had trouble understanding the plays being sent in.

He held onto the ball too long in the pocket, then didn't hold onto it when the New York Giants arrived.

At times he seemed totally baffled.

...

"Kurt's a competitor," Martz told reporters after the game. "But he just wasn't himself. He looked confused when you gave him a play, and I shouldn't have played him. I regret playing him."

Nice of Martz to admit it afterwards, but Martz being Martz, a big giant goofball, didn't even think to realize it. Ah that silly Kurt, doing those goofy things again. How funny!

Sorry, I only wish Dallas had the QB problems you guys have :)

--- Alan

[balut]

I think there's a special place in hell for whoever selected the Rams' new uniforms and whoever decided to put the Browns back in orange pants. Ugh!

You homo!

[Jason Levine]

I think there's a special place in hell for whoever selected the Rams' new uniforms and whoever decided to put the Browns back in orange pants. Ugh!

You homo!

Heh! I'm just a traditionalist. I love that the Jints are wearing those 60s style uniforms again. The Browns should never wear anything but their ugly brown or white jerseys with white pants and the Steelers should never put a logo on the other side of their helmets. And those stripes on the Rams' new unis are incredibly gay.

[Rob de los Reyes]

What the hell league are you in that would malign picking Priest Holmes with the number one pick? First round picks should've all gone to Priest Holmes, Clinton Portis, Ricky Williams, LaDainian Tomlinson, Shaun Alexander, and the like.

Maligned in that most everyone in my league thought I was stupid to pass up one of the other RBs you mentioned. The feeling was that Holmes was too big a gamble with his hip injury to be a number one. I don't think anyone would have let Holmes go too far down the line, but having him first pick out of the gate raised eyebrows.

[Bub, Andrew]

Levine, the Browns and Rams look good compared to the Seahawks, Bills, and the Saints at home. Black from the waist down... nice... looks like PJs. (I agree that the Browns and Rams need to go back in time a bit.) The only uni change I'm in favor of is Tampa. Tangerine just isn't a football color, dammit.

[Jason Levine]

Tangerine just isn't a football color, dammit.

Agreed. What really has me cringing is that you just know that one of these days the Browns are going to run out on the field wearing both the orange jerseys and orange pants. Yikes!

[Xaroc]

Tangerine just isn't a football color, dammit.

Agreed. What really has me cringing is that you just know that one of these days the Browns are going to run out on the field wearing both the orange jerseys and orange pants. Yikes!

It is interesting the Redskins wore white on white for the opener against the Jets by request of the players. I thought it looked pretty good. They are also talking about wearing burgandy on burgandy for a big game sometime during the season which I also think would look great.

I also think orange on orange for the Browns would look pretty damn cool but that is probably just me.

-- Xaroc

[Bub, Andrew]

My sister-in-law picks teams based on their helmets. She picks the one with the prettiest helmet. You're like my sister-in-law, aren't you Xaroc.

[Jason Levine]

My sister-in-law picks teams based on their helmets. She picks the one with the prettiest helmet. You're like my sister-in-law, aren't you Xaroc.

I'm guessing that your sister-in-law never picks the Steelers and always picks the Cowboys.

[Xaroc]

My sister-in-law picks teams based on their helmets. She picks the one with the prettiest helmet. You're like my sister-in-law, aren't you Xaroc.

I pick based on the uniforms but not the helmet. I am sure we would be a great team. ;)

-- Xaroc

[Bub, Andrew]

I'm guessing that your sister-in-law never picks the Steelers and always picks the Cowboys.

I think she'd go for the Steelers actually. Silver and Blue, even with a star is nothing compared to basic black. She really likes the helmets with horns, or wings, on the sides too.

If you ask me (and TMQ) you can't beat the Packer uniforms for timelessness. Ask my sister-in-law and she'll tell you the Vikings have cool horns.

[balut]

What the hell league are you in that would malign picking Priest Holmes with the number one pick? First round picks should've all gone to Priest Holmes, Clinton Portis, Ricky Williams, LaDainian Tomlinson, Shaun Alexander, and the like.

Maligned in that most everyone in my league thought I was stupid to pass up one of the other RBs you mentioned. The feeling was that Holmes was too big a gamble with his hip injury to be a number one. I don't think anyone would have let Holmes go too far down the line, but having him first pick out of the gate raised eyebrows.

Ah, I see. True, I picked Clinton Portis with my first, passing Priest Holmes by. Still, Priest Holmes with a hip injury is probably better than 2/3ds of the the running backs in the league.

[Squirrel Killer]

Cleveland Browns with orange jerseys and orange pants.
Washington Redskins with white on white for the opener.
Washington Redskins wearing burgandy on burgandy for a big game sometime during the season.
Iowa State Cyclones wearing red jerseys and red pants.

This one clothing/costuming facet completely ruined Any Given Sunday for me. It just doesn't look like professional football. Hell it doesn't even look like college football. High school, Pee-Wee, sure, but pros? Nah. White on white, I could stand, but color on color looks stupid, like they're trying to be fashion models, not football players.