iPhone Owners: Still Happy? What sucks, what rocks?

[Nellie]

OS X might be, but their history with the ipod and Apple TV didn't suggest to me that there was a cat's chance in hell that the Iphone would be open. What's perhaps a little more surprising is just how successfully they've managed to keep the networks out of the App store.

[Mark Asher]

It's been obvious for a while that tiered plans were going to start getting pushed heavily. Verizon's been talking about it (particularly in the context of LTE), and now that smrtphones are getting cheap, there really does need to be a way to get them to mass audiences that can't afford $80/month.

Yeah, but isn't this going to screw with people who want to tether their smartphone to their laptop? I could see doing away with home internet service entirely if I could tether my smartphone to my PC -- not that I have a smartphone.

Under that scenario, I'd save money because I'd eliminate the cost of my home internet service.

Tiered service plans aren't a bad thing, but I'd still like an option for unlimited use at a flat cost.

[Jazar]

At least it seems that the unlimited plan will stay even with renewals:


The good news for current customers who love their unlimited plan is this: they are not required to switch, even when it's time to upgrade to a new phone. So you are welcome to keep your unlimited plan :) -AT&T Facebook

[Skipper]

But unlimited plan users cannot ever tether, and if they switch from unlimited to another plan to tether, they cannot switch back.

It's a big fuck you to the current users who were told that we would get a tethering option. On hey, no we only meant if you get a restricted data plan along with that, and oh hey, the combination of the two will still cost more than what you pay for unlimited data.

[XPav]

So I went and looked at my data usage. This is available on the AT&T Wireless Web pages.

The max I had, since they started collecting this data in Nov 09, was 254MB.

My wife? 70MB.

I'll probably get the 2GB plan, and put her on the 250MB plan, and we'll be saving $25 a month.

Overage charges on the 2GB plan are $10/GB, and on the 250MB plan, $15 for another 200MB.

I dunno, the 2GB plan doesn't seem like highway robbery to me, and I can see why they're doing it -- they really, really don't want their network to be crushed by tethering.

[mkozlows]

Yeah, but isn't this going to screw with people who want to tether their smartphone to their laptop? I could see doing away with home internet service entirely if I could tether my smartphone to my PC -- not that I have a smartphone.

Under that scenario, I'd save money because I'd eliminate the cost of my home internet service.

Well, and that last sentence should tell you why this can't happen: There's no way that providing unlimited 3G bandwidth is cheaper than providing that same bandwidth via cables. In fact, you'd expect it to be much, much more expensive. So if people are going to try to use their connections this way, then the carriers need to price accordingly.

I strongly, massively dislike tiering, but until wireless data gets much cheaper to provide, I don't see an alternative. Right now, we have the implicit bandwidth tier of "you must use your very limited phone" at a rather high price; as the limitations of phones start to fade and the need for a lower price starts to grow, something else is needed.

On the plus side, if they're providing metered data service, they no longer have the need to restrict what you can do with your phone, in terms of VOIP or whatever, as it's no longer a free pass around their metered services.

[Cubit]

I really dislike the change to a tiered plan by AT&T, but not for any practical reasons. I don't use close to 2GB of data.

[nlanza]

I'll probably get the 2GB plan, and put her on the 250MB plan, and we'll be saving $25 a month.

Yeah, I just looked up my stats, and they're almost identical to yours -- my peak month was 284MB, and my wife's never used more than 60MB.

So as much as losing 'unlimited' bothers me, I probably could save a decent chunk of money making that switch.

[mono]

My peak iPhone data usage for 2010 was 490MB. My wife's max is a whopping 8MB.

That said, this is merely setting the stage for future profits, as high bandwidth TV and movies become more accessible on the cellular networks.

[Skipper]

I routinely go over 500 MB. The next phone is including a video up front and it's assumed to mean that video calling would be in the future. So that, along with me streaming more and possibly watching more video on my device means I will continue to probably gain in my use over time.

Right now that 2GB limit would work, but if I switch to that I can never go back to unlimited. And I'm assuming I would have to wait for another plan option to be offered from them before I could get anything higher anyway. No thanks. I'll stick with unlimited for $5 more until I have the option to compare pricing with a different carrier.

I don't really think saving myself $5 a month is incentive enough for me at this point.

[nKoan]

My sister is actually excited about the new plans. She still has an EDGE iPhone, and wants to upgrade but doesn't want the more expensive unlimited data plan. Now she can get a new one (told her to wait for the new-new one later this month) and even save money over her previous plan. She see's why I'm disappointed, but for her its just savings because she's well under 2GB a month. She may even be under the 200GB a month, but will likely stick with 2GB plan.

I don't have an iPhone yet due to past issues with AT&T, and with this I probably won't switch. I'd at least like the option to still be there. I've still barely used 1GB in my heaviest months with my current smartphone, so I'd probably be safe with the 2GB plan, but I don't want to give up the safety of unlimited data for essentially $5 more a month with Sprint.

[XPav]

Heck, I might go to 250MB. With that plan for the last few months, I still would have come out cheaper even if I had gone over that one month.

I wonder when "bandwidth rollover" will start to be advertised.

[ARogan]

Just checked my history. I use between 2-4gb/month. One month I actually hit 5.4 and another I dipped below 2gb. So on the new plan I would routinely pay $35.

The wife uses around 500mb so she would spend around $25.

It's a wash but under the current plan I get unlimited for the same $60/month.

Bandwidth rollover is an excellent idea!

[StGabe]

I think it's very easy to underestimate the effect of the Iphone on the Mobile industry as a whole. I've worked for one of the major UK networks on and off for the best part of a decade and it wasn't all that long ago that the networks were desperate to channel data usage while at the same time begin lumbered with handsets that were basically useless. Anyone remember WAP? I don't however lay the blame entirely on the handset manufacturers for that though.

The UK networks spent billions on 3G licences and apart from business users checking Email and offering incredibly overpriced data packages to use a Laptop modem about the only thing your average customer used any data for was buying ringtones.

It's not perfect by any means, but the Iphone gave every other handset maker a gigantic kick up the arse. I've owned enough handsets and supported many, many more, some of them supposedly designed to handle data and none of them came close to the Iphone. My last phone was an HTC, it supported wi-fi and 3G and yet still managed to be absolutely terrible at both email and web browsing let alone trying to do anything more productive on it.

I don't have any dealings with handsets anymore but it does strike me just how many phones now on the market that are basically takes on the best of what the Iphone does well.

I do also think you make a very good point about the networks and handset makers being hand in hand in restricting the markets they're supposedly trying to encourage. A few years back it wasn't uncommon for the handset makers to have to supply network specific versions of the phone OS with various features crippled or disabled at the whim of the network so it was interesting to see Apple turn up and basically make the networks beg to be able to sell their phone even if they do appear in subsequent releases to have bowed to some of the network demands over some features.

As for expecting an open Iphone platform you do realise it's made by Apple don't you?

It was at least a little different in Europe (and you guys some some better phones because of it). In the US, just as all apps had to flow through the carrier decks (if they wanted to sell) all phones had to flow through the carrier retail stores (in Europe unbranded/unlocked phones were a lot more common and there was a bigger market outside of the carrier retail stores).

Prior to the revolution of advanced smartphones we've been seeing these past few years, mobile hardware was fairly commoditized. Carriers were content to milk their existing revenue streams, controlled just about everything, and weren't really all that interested in innovation, especially if it cost them control.

Therefore hardware competition was mostly at the branding level. For example Motorola marketed the hell out of the RAZR and managed to capture a surprisingly large chunk of the market. No one really cared at the time that the RAZR was actually a pretty shitty phone and that Motorola had done a really crappy job of implementing the software that ran on it.

It really took the brand power and development power of Apple to finally create a product to usurp that control and, most importantly, create new consumer expectations. It's kind of funny (and also great) to watch the market now with all of these consumer take these new expectations for granted and are ready to slag the company that made it all happen only 3 years later.

[DragonPup]

Here's the big question: If you buy the new iPhone, do you keep your unlimited data, or is it a 'new contract'?

[Jazar]

Here's the big question: If you buy the new iPhone, do you keep your unlimited data, or is it a 'new contract'?



The good news for current customers who love their unlimited plan is this: they are not required to switch, even when it's time to upgrade to a new phone. So you are welcome to keep your unlimited plan :)
-AT&T Facebook

[Michael Fortson]

Gizmodo has a post where they show the bandwidth usage for all of their writers. Most could drop to the $15 plan (from $30 currently).

Posting from my (unlimited 3g but hard to paste links) iPad, so, not bothering with the link :)

[Tracy Baker]

The new 2GB cap will suck for Netflix streaming over 3G with the iPad. One site (http://www.theipadguide.com/faq/how-much-data-does-netflix-streaming-video-use-ipad-3g) claims a 30-minute show requires about 140MB of bandwidth over 3G, so that's 280MB per hour, or about 7.3 hours of Netflix viewing on the iPad per month with the 2GB cap (assuming you don't do other stuff like browse the Web or download apps). I haven't found anything to verify that MB/hour figure, but it doesn't sound unreasonable for video streaming at 1024x768 resolution.

[Andrew Mayer]

I haven't found anything to verify that MB/hour figure, but it doesn't sound unreasonable for video streaming at 1024x768 resolution.

Except I doubt it's streaming at anything near that resolution.

The tethering thing is incredibly annoying. All this waiting and now I'm stuck with a catch-22. They know they've got me and they're screwing me with a smile.

[Mark Asher]

The problem I see is that we're now beginning to look at people who have a home internet plan, an iPhone data plan, and perhaps an iPad/netbook 3G plan. That is getting prohibitive. Some carrier needs to offer an all-in-one plan, even if the data on 3G is tiered.

[Tracy Baker]

Except I doubt it's streaming at anything near that resolution.

Regardless of the actual resolution, the point stands that most places report 240MB-250MB per hour of video, which will eat into a 2GB data plan in short order.

[Jazar]

Gizmodo has a post where they show the bandwidth usage for all of their writers. Most could drop to the $15 plan (from $30 currently).


I'm sure they're connected to Wifi at home and at work. I don't have access to Wifi at work (and I'm not sure I'd want to) so that means throughout most of the day I'm on 3G. Yesterday alone I downloaded 641MB.

[Gordon_Bleu]

I would use 3G at work if AT&T's 3G actually penetrated my building. Maybe they'll let me move my desk outside.

3G iPad users have a decision to make: you have until Monday to sign up for the $30 unlimited 3G if you don't already have it. After that, it's $25 for the 2GB or $15 for 250MB. Currently I'm on the $15 plan which so far is just fine for me.

[Marcus]

Hmm I am going to have to sign up for the 30 unlimited tonight then. With the iPad I can see my self going over that 2GB pretty fast.

[Enidigm]

This is typical credit card billing. Are you sure you paid last month's bill?

Yep this billing cycle started the moment i signed up; ie, i started paying on the 21st of January for service i started January 1st.

[Michael Fortson]

I'll be keeping my unlimited plan for sure (unless I end up getting something like an Evo with a built-in hotspot and unlimited 4G tethering for $30).

[Lorini]

The LA Times reported today that 3% of AT&T's users are taking up 40% of the available bandwidth. With that fact, I can't blame them for charging.

[Mark Asher]

What gets me is they are charging extra for the tethering option for the iPhone, while still capping bandwidth. How exactly do they justify this? It doesn't cost them a dime, and paying for tethering nets the user exactly zero additional bandwidth.

Hopefully android phones will continue to make inroads and compete with the iPhone and drive prices down.

[Marcus]

The LA Times reported today that 3% of AT&T's users are taking up 40% of the available bandwidth. With that fact, I can't blame them for charging.

Screw that shit it isn't my problem that they don't want to upgrade their system. It is the future they just need to get on board with it already.

[mono]

Screw that shit it isn't my problem that they don't want to upgrade their system. It is the future they just need to get on board with it already.


They are getting on board with the future. They're giving a sucker's price break now, so they can hit users with heavy usage charges once 4G rolls out and everyone is downloading HD video and making video chats all day long.

[Mark Asher]

They are getting on board with the future. They're giving a sucker's price break now, so they can hit users with heavy usage charges once 4G rolls out and everyone is downloading HD video and making video chats all day long.

Yeah, in a few months we'll be reading stories about outraged parents getting a $4000 phone bill from AT&T because junior's been watching porn every night on his new 4G iPhone.

[Stridergg]

What gets me is they are charging extra for the tethering option for the iPhone, while still capping bandwidth. How exactly do they justify this? It doesn't cost them a dime, and paying for tethering nets the user exactly zero additional bandwidth.

Hopefully android phones will continue to make inroads and compete with the iPhone and drive prices down.

What do you mean it doesn't cost them a dime? If most people without tethering use under 1 GB, while people with tethering use, let's say, 4 GB on average, of course they want to charge more for tethering. Hence the move to a tiered pricing.

I don't see how android is going to drive the bandwith prices down. Most likely, soon enough T-Mobile and other carriers will see what android-based tethering is doing to their 3G network (like ATT is seeing it today with iPhones) and will start charging for it as well. Or maybe I am just pessimistic like that.

[mkozlows]

What gets me is they are charging extra for the tethering option for the iPhone, while still capping bandwidth. How exactly do they justify this? It doesn't cost them a dime, and paying for tethering nets the user exactly zero additional bandwidth.

The 2GB limit is clearly one of those "intended to be high enough not to bother people while still stopping the ultra-extremists" numbers. When ATAT is setting the price for the 2GB service, they're basing it on the average expected bandwidth for people who subscribe to that tier, which is probably going to be in the 600MB range.

Obviously people who tether are going to use more than that, even if they stay under the 2GB limit, so it makes some sense to charge for tethering. (Which isn't to say I like it; it seems very much like charging extra for VOIP or charging extra for Youtube, and at a certain point, just adjust your tiers if they're a problem where they're at.)

[Mark Asher]

What do you mean it doesn't cost them a dime? If most people without tethering use under 1 GB, while people with tethering use, let's say, 4 GB on average, of course they want to charge more for tethering. Hence the move to a tiered pricing.

I don't see how android is going to drive the bandwith prices down. Most likely, soon enough T-Mobile and other carriers will see what android-based tethering is doing to their 3G network (like ATT is seeing it today with iPhones) and will start charging for it as well. Or maybe I am just pessimistic like that.

I meant it in the sense that the user is entitled to X amount of data per month, and adding tethering doesn't increase that amount.

I think it's semantics to say that it's costing AT&T more if someone tethers. AT&T is obligated to provide that much data per month per the contract.

They are charging $20 per month just for tethering.

[mkozlows]

I think it's semantics to say that it's costing AT&T more if someone tethers. AT&T is obligated to provide that much data per month per the contract.

But it's pretty normal to allow a high cap on a service, but price it for average usage. If all the "100GB transfers allowed" web hosting services actually got 100GB of transfer from all their hosted sites, they'd be out of business; if all the students who got accepted at most colleges actually went there, the college would be screwed; if every person in a neighborhood tried to use the full capacity of their cable modem, they wouldn't all be able to; and if everyone actually used 2GB of data, ATAT would almost certainly price it higher.

[Skipper]

I would much rather see usage based billing overall applied to data and broadband as a whole. I pay for what I use in electricity, why can't I do that with data? As it stands now, these packages they offer give them the benefit, since if I don't use my cap, they make out, and if I abuse the cap I'm charged much higher rates. Something along the line of a penny or a penny and fraction per MB would be sufficient. Something that equated to $25 per 2 GB would only be costing the the 200 MB users $2.50. They are indeed playing a sucker bet game here.

[mkozlows]

Except that empirically, people HATE HATE HATE being metered, because it forces you into this irritating mindset where you have to ask whether it's worth money to do something. Curious about the weather? Well, are you curious enough to PAY to look at it or can it wait until you get home? Sure, syncing your email is nice -- but if I just check it every 30 minutes, it'll save bandwidth. Etc.

It may save a few bucks here and there, but it's very unpleasant, and people will almost universally take the unmetered option if it's available.

[Marcus]

Except that empirically, people HATE HATE HATE being metered, because it forces you into this irritating mindset where you have to ask whether it's worth money to do something. Curious about the weather? Well, are you curious enough to PAY to look at it or can it wait until you get home? Sure, syncing your email is nice -- but if I just check it every 30 minutes, it'll save bandwidth. Etc.

It may save a few bucks here and there, but it's very unpleasant, and people will almost universally take the unmetered option if it's available.

Exactly.

[Jojo]

I'm with skipper and mono on this one. Right now I'm routinely under 200Mb each month, but I foresee increased bandwidth in the future, specifically more video streaming, and potentially a video chat option on the next-gen iPhone. I'll stick with my unlimited data and pay the extra so I have options.

[ElGuapo]

I wish I could change my answer. I love the ability to surf the web, email, the applications, etc but the iPhone is the worst phone I've ever had. Dropped calls while sitting in one place, truly terrible coverage, wonky and frustating disappearing interface, and all kinds of idiocy. Just a terrible phone. But good for everything else! Except when it locks up.

[Lunch of Kong]

What gets me is they are charging extra for the tethering option for the iPhone, while still capping bandwidth. How exactly do they justify this?

"Because we can."

I concur with you that this is a bullshit charge. If you're paying a metered rate, the only justification for the tethering fee is a money grab.

[Skipper]

Except that empirically, people HATE HATE HATE being metered, because it forces you into this irritating mindset where you have to ask whether it's worth money to do something. Curious about the weather? Well, are you curious enough to PAY to look at it or can it wait until you get home? Sure, syncing your email is nice -- but if I just check it every 30 minutes, it'll save bandwidth. Etc.

It may save a few bucks here and there, but it's very unpleasant, and people will almost universally take the unmetered option if it's available.

Sure, when we've never been metered at all I'm in that camp with you, unlimited as a plan is all you would want, period. But if the future mimics what they do now, expect tiered pricing on your home broadband use at some point. When/if that happens, we can bring this up again, but I would MUCH rather pay per use than via a tier, unless going over simply gets you the next tier charge. That never happens with these guys, they rape you with overage costs. Example: $15 for 200MB. But going over puts you at $15 + $15 or $30 for 400MB. That's a scam plain and simple.

[Zuwadza]

But it's pretty normal to allow a high cap on a service, but price it for average usage. If all the "100GB transfers allowed" web hosting services actually got 100GB of transfer from all their hosted sites, they'd be out of business; if all the students who got accepted at most colleges actually went there, the college would be screwed; if every person in a neighborhood tried to use the full capacity of their cable modem, they wouldn't all be able to; and if everyone actually used 2GB of data, ATAT would almost certainly price it higher.

And if airlines gave seats to everybody that bought a ticket they'd be screwed! Wait a second...

[Michael Fortson]

"Because we can."

I concur with you that this is a bullshit charge. If you're paying a metered rate, the only justification for the tethering fee is a money grab.

Ditto. It's a bullshit move. It should come with at least that much more bandwidth.

[Andrew Mayer]

Ditto. It's a bullshit move. It should come with at least that much more bandwidth.

It's time to move beyond the monopoly. This is what happens when there's no competition.

[mkozlows]

It's time to move beyond the monopoly. This is what happens when there's no competition.

Yes, if only there were other cell carriers competing with ATAT.

[XPav]

And if only there was some other company pushin hard into that space with an open source OS.

[Brian Rubin]

Except that empirically, people HATE HATE HATE being metered, because it forces you into this irritating mindset where you have to ask whether it's worth money to do something. Curious about the weather? Well, are you curious enough to PAY to look at it or can it wait until you get home? Sure, syncing your email is nice -- but if I just check it every 30 minutes, it'll save bandwidth. Etc.

It may save a few bucks here and there, but it's very unpleasant, and people will almost universally take the unmetered option if it's available.
Pretty much. I'll be keeping my unlimited plan.

[XPav]

I will be dropping my plans to the 250MB.

I don't use 3G that much. I sure as hell wouldn't stream movies over it.

[TheTrunkDr]

I would much rather see usage based billing overall applied to data and broadband as a whole. I pay for what I use in electricity, why can't I do that with data? As it stands now, these packages they offer give them the benefit, since if I don't use my cap, they make out, and if I abuse the cap I'm charged much higher rates. Something along the line of a penny or a penny and fraction per MB would be sufficient. Something that equated to $25 per 2 GB would only be costing the the 200 MB users $2.50. They are indeed playing a sucker bet game here.
You're making a very large assumption that the pricing would stay the same per unit. It absolutely wouldn't. AT&T can charge $25 per 2GB because they know the vast majority of the people on that plan won't use it all, most will likely use considerably less. They know what the average person uses and know which plan people are likely to pick based on their usage and I wouldn't be surprised if the average actual usage for the 2GB is under 500MB. If everyone on the 2GB plan actually used all 2GB AT&T would likely have to raise the rates, probably considerably.

If they charged by usage the rate would be considerably higher, more like 5 or 10 cents a MB. What they charge for going over your allotment is likely closer to what the per MB usage charge would be than what the tiered plans offer.

If you're a below average user you'll over pay if you're above average you'll likely pay a little less than you would on a usage plan.

[Gordon_Bleu]

On the upside, you'll be able to use the iPhone HD for as low as $55/mo. right?

[Skipper]

You're making a very large assumption that the pricing would stay the same per unit. It absolutely wouldn't. AT&T can charge $25 per 2GB because they know the vast majority of the people on that plan won't use it all, most will likely use considerably less.

I absolutely agree, I did make a large assumption there. I only used that amount based on the figure they quoted for 2GB. If they did bill like a utility though, the price per unit would have to be low enough to get folks to use the service. 2GB couldn't equate to $200 a month, because people would simply not use AT&T at all at that point (most likely.) You would take your smartphone business elsewhere, and I would wager Apple would have opened up to other carriers much earlier.

[TheTrunkDr]

I absolutely agree, I did make a large assumption there. I only used that amount based on the figure they quoted for 2GB. If they did bill like a utility though, the price per unit would have to be low enough to get folks to use the service. 2GB couldn't equate to $200 a month, because people would simply not use AT&T at all at that point (most likely.) You would take your smartphone business elsewhere, and I would wager Apple would have opened up to other carriers much earlier.
Considering people get dinged anywhere from a dime to a quarter for a text message without a plan (essentially metered) why would you think a nickel (which would be $100 for 2GB) be all that unrealistic? Currently, if you don't have a plan (metered usage) you pay through the nose for data. If a carrier switched everyone to usage billing I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the price were nickel per MB, a penny would be entirely too cheap.

[Skipper]

Because competition of price would lead people elsewhere. Fortunately many of us here in the US have options for a wireless provider. Many do not have options for broadband though.

Seriously, would you take an iPhone over a Droid if the rates were that high? I sure wouldn't. They would have to price it for what the market would accept. Even though I wish it would go this way though, I don't see them ever doing metered billing, they would lose more than they would gain through the pricing applied now.

[TheTrunkDr]

Because competition of price would lead people elsewhere. Fortunately many of us here in the US have options for a wireless provider. Many do not have options for broadband though.

Seriously, would you take an iPhone over a Droid if the rates were that high? I sure wouldn't. They would have to price it for what the market would accept. Even though I wish it would go this way though, I don't see them ever doing metered billing, they would lose more than they would gain through the pricing applied now.
A billing of $0.05 per MB is less than their current offering of 250MB for $15. It's not an unreasonable price in the current market, which is why $0.10 per MB as a high mark seems like a possibility to me. It only seems high if you compare it to the 2GB plan. The difference being most people on the 2GB plan likely won't use even a quarter of it a month. It's cheaper per MB but I'm willing to bet it ends up being more profitable for AT&T than the 250MB which will likely have customers using a much larger percentage of their allotment.

Also, why are you assuming the rates would be different for different devices? I know at the moment the iPhone has unique plans but I'm pretty sure that's changing as more high end devices are entering the market. Eventually there probably won't be plans specific to iPhone.

[Skipper]

Lets put it this way. If the use of AT&T were metered, and the average customer were to use say, 500MB a month at $0.05 that would probably be acceptable. If it were instead, double that, people would probably scream about it. If it were so high that the 2GB amount put it at $200 a month, that would be crazy for AT&T to offer that. They want to make money, sure, but they also want to have customers, because without them they get no money at all.

I'm assuming that the rates would be competitive between vendors, not that different devices would have different rates. When I referred to the Droid above, I meant on Verizon's network. A penny or two less on the data rate might sway customers at that point. To your point though, we don't have any choice on carriers for the iPhone. So comparison between devices could be somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison, but in the use we see here in our organization, I don't really think so.

[TheTrunkDr]

Lets put it this way. If the use of AT&T were metered, and the average customer were to use say, 500MB a month at $0.05 that would probably be acceptable. If it were instead, double that, people would probably scream about it. If it were so high that the 2GB amount put it at $200 a month, that would be crazy for AT&T to offer that. They want to make money, sure, but they also want to have customers, because without them they get no money at all.
Well at $0.05 it would be $100 for 2GB. I don't know if you consider that unreasonable but if you do but you consider $25 for 500MB reasonable, well I don't know what to tell as those prices are the same exact rate.

[Skipper]

I feel like I'm talking to my Mom here, no disrespect intended but we're talking through each other, not at each other. My whole reference to the metered billing was that -at an acceptable rate- it would save those those who use small data amounts a bit of money, while costing those who use super high levels a lot. Lets not argue over the rate of an unknown, because it's ... an unknown. If 2GB costs me $25 under a plan system, I don't think if they did metered billing they would suddenly make that same amount $100.

What I was offering was that if it were metered, AT&T would pick that metered sweet spot based on what they want people to use. I sincerely do not think that sweet spot would be 50MB of data use. I could then vary my use based on what I deem acceptable to my wallet. We would not have uneven charging, because both you and I would pay the same amount, it would simply cost more to use more.

I think you aren't happy with metered billing as an alternative, what would you suggest instead? Are you happy with this AT&T offer and if so, at which rate plan?

[TheTrunkDr]

I feel like I'm talking to my Mom here, no disrespect intended but we're talking through each other, not at each other. My whole reference to the metered billing was that -at an acceptable rate- it would save those those who use small data amounts a bit of money, while costing those who use super high levels a lot. Lets not argue over the rate of an unknown, because it's ... an unknown. If 2GB costs me $25 under a plan system, I don't think if they did metered billing they would suddenly make that same amount $100.
My point is that they're currently offering two plans with wildly diverging rates. The 250MB plan costs 6 cents an MB while the 2GB cost 1.25 cents. They're only offering that 2GB plan so cheap because they know the average user isn't going use anything near 2GB a month so the actual cost to AT&T for that plan is much less (proportional to the amount of data it offers) than it is for the 250MB one where users will likely user a much larger percentage of their cap.

If they go to metered billing they can't offer hugely generous plans knowing most people won't use all of it and will end up over paying significantly and thus subsidize those people who use more. They'd have to charge at a rate they can make money on, period. That number is going to be closer to the rate of the 250MB plan as there will be much less over payment on that plan. AT&T might not even make money at 1.25 cents an MB but they know most people on the 2GB plan are going to pay significantly more per MB and ultimately all that matters it the average usage and what effective rate that turns out to be. If they took the 250MB rate (6 cents, which is the cheapest it can possibly be) a person could download about 415MB for the same cost as the 2GB plan. I think that shows that AT&T expects the average usage on the 2GB plan to be less than a quarter of what the plan actually offers driving up the effective price per MB to the average user by a large margin.


What I was offering was that if it were metered, AT&T would pick that metered sweet spot based on what they want people to use. I sincerely do not think that sweet spot would be 50MB of data use. I could then vary my use based on what I deem acceptable to my wallet. We would not have uneven charging, because both you and I would pay the same amount, it would simply cost more to use more.
I understand this, but you're the one that implied the cost of X usage at Y dollars was acceptable while the cost of 8X usage at 8Y dollars wasn't, even though they're the identical rate. The carriers will need to pick a rate they can make money on and leave it up to the customer to decide how much to use. Looking at their 250MB plan 5 cents isn't an unreasonable rate.


I think you aren't happy with metered billing as an alternative, what would you suggest instead? Are you happy with this AT&T offer and if so, at which rate plan?
I don't live in the US but I prefer not having to worry about it but I'm a fairly light user so if I had an iPhone and lived in the US I'd probably go with the 250MB plan. I have unlimited data through my work on my Blackberry and I barely use it, I'd probably use an iPhone more but still not sure my usage would be high enough to justify the 2GB plan.

[Skipper]

I understand this, but you're the one that implied the cost of X usage at Y dollars was acceptable while the cost of 8X usage at 8Y dollars wasn't, even though they're the identical rate. The carriers will need to pick a rate they can make money on and leave it up to the customer to decide how much to use. Looking at their 250MB plan 5 cents isn't an unreasonable rate.

Noted. I did not make my point well. I have no problem paying for my use at a fair rate plan, or at a fair metered billing plan. There are two plans here with different rates. I have no idea what amount might be chose if they did a metered alternative, but if the rate was fair, metered billing would be fine with me.


I don't live in the US but I prefer not having to worry about it but I'm a fairly light user so if I had an iPhone and lived in the US I'd probably go with the 250MB plan. I have unlimited data through my work on my Blackberry and I barely use it, I'd probably use an iPhone more but still not sure my usage would be high enough to justify the 2GB plan.

We have several enterprise users switching to iPhones right now. I'm kind of interested to see how much network use they do now versus what they did on their Blackberry phones. Time will tell. My iPhone use has gone up pretty steadily, I think it's a device that is pushing the envelope from that "I hardly use it" mindset of previous phones. The more I do, the more I find new uses for it. That's why I think AT&T is struggling with how to contain it's use.

[TheTrunkDr]

Noted. I did not make my point well. I have no problem paying for my use at a fair rate plan, or at a fair metered billing plan. There are two plans here with different rates. I have no idea what amount might be chose if they did a metered alternative, but if the rate was fair, metered billing would be fine with me.
Well if you think the 250MB plan is fair then you'll likely feel whatever metered plan they would come up with would be as well.


We have several enterprise users switching to iPhones right now. I'm kind of interested to see how much network use they do now versus what they did on their Blackberry phones. Time will tell. My iPhone use has gone up pretty steadily, I think it's a device that is pushing the envelope from that "I hardly use it" mindset of previous phones. The more I do, the more I find new uses for it. That's why I think AT&T is struggling with how to contain it's use.
There are significant technical differences between the iPhone and Blackberries though. Blackberries go way out of their way to let the user control any and all network connections, iPhones don't. First, everything sent out from or to a Blackberry is compressed (even web pages) while compression is entirely up to the app developer to implement and I don't believe anything in the OS does any compression on their data streams at all. Second, security can be set on Blackberries to prompt the user to allow or deny connections that any app attempts to open as they see fit, while there is no such information on the iPhone. An app can be sending all sorts of data out without the user ever knowing, and believe me, they do. You'll see increased amounts of data being transmitted when switching to an iPhone from a Blackberry even if the user doesn't change their habits at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the data transmitted more than doubled with identical usage.

[Ben Sones]

But unlimited plan users cannot ever tether, and if they switch from unlimited to another plan to tether, they cannot switch back.


You know what? Fuck tethering. I used to really want that capability, but the more I've used my iPhone, the less desire I have to drag my laptop around places. When we travel, I'd rather just bring the iPhone. It can do 99.9% of the things I'd use the laptop for anyway, and it fits in my pocket. I've recently been trying really hard to think of any situations in which I might ever conceivably need tethering, and I'm drawing a blank.

I'll keep my unlimited data, though.

[Brian Rubin]

You know what? Fuck tethering. I used to really want that capability, but the more I've used my iPhone, the less desire I have to drag my laptop around places. When we travel, I'd rather just bring the iPhone. It can do 99.9% of the things I'd use the laptop for anyway, and it fits in my pocket. I've recently been trying really hard to think of any situations in which I might ever conceivably need tethering, and I'm drawing a blank.

I'll keep my unlimited data, though.
Can I join you in your boat? ;)

[Andrew Mayer]

You know what? Fuck tethering. I used to really want that capability, but the more I've used my iPhone, the less desire I have to drag my laptop around places. When we travel, I'd rather just bring the iPhone. It can do 99.9% of the things I'd use the laptop for anyway, and it fits in my pocket. I've recently been trying really hard to think of any situations in which I might ever conceivably need tethering, and I'm drawing a blank.

I'll keep my unlimited data, though.

It's a relatively good point. There's times I need to do work related stuff and the hotel wi-fi is crap. Tethering would be good for that.

Having a keyboard after 4.0 is going to reduce my tethering needs fairly significantly, although having some way to access dropbox files in a way that would let me avoid having to re-sync would be the cherry on the sundae.

[Stridergg]

I hate subscriptions. Personally, I think that the subscribers of the 250 MB plan are subsidizing the ones who have the 2 GB or the unlimited plan. Not even talking about overages, which add quite a chunk of cash. Removing those 2GB/Unlimited plans would allow a carrier to decrease their rate on pay per MB plans.

I hate needing, let's say, 800 MB a month and having to pay the same as the dude who watches Youtube all day long and uses 5 GB a month.

[Marcus]

Well I guess this is the right place to put this but I finally put my money where my mouth is. FUCK AT&T I am done with it I am switching to Verizon and bought the Droid X.

That being said I will miss my iPhone but I will not miss the dropped calls and shitty service. I almost made the jump to the iPhone 4 but I just can't stand being with AT&T any more. I have serious doubts that Verizon will be getting the iPhone anytime in the near future but if they do I would get the Verizon iPhone quick like.

Also Verizon (according to a few people ) also does not have the 2gb cap like AT&T does now.

[DennyA]

I haven't dropped a single call on the iPhone 4.* Used to drop a couple a week on the 3GS.

Apparently the new model deals with network inadequacies better.


* With bumper. :)

[rei]

Soo...should I buy unlocked or not?

http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/new-iphones/fido-website-source-code-reveals-iphone-4-pricing/

[metta]

I just switched to a Blackberry Bold. iOS4 turned my iPhone 3G into a lump of dogshit, and even though I love Apple, I try never to buy v1.0 of any of their products. So, I'll wait for the iPhone 4 to mature a bit and use a BB in the meantime.

[André Costa]

Well I guess this is the right place to put this but I finally put my money where my mouth is. FUCK AT&T I am done with it I am switching to Verizon and bought the Droid X.

That being said I will miss my iPhone but I will not miss the dropped calls and shitty service. I almost made the jump to the iPhone 4 but I just can't stand being with AT&T any more. I have serious doubts that Verizon will be getting the iPhone anytime in the near future but if they do I would get the Verizon iPhone quick like.

Also Verizon (according to a few people ) also does not have the 2gb cap like AT&T does now.

Not sure about over there but here, in September, operators will be forced to unlock any mobile phone(free of charge) if the costumer wants it.

[Charles]

I just switched to a Blackberry Bold. iOS4 turned my iPhone 3G into a lump of dogshit, and even though I love Apple, I try never to buy v1.0 of any of their products. So, I'll wait for the iPhone 4 to mature a bit and use a BB in the meantime.

I'm not sure how you consider the fourth iteration version 1.0.

That being said, yes, iOS4 turned my 3GS in to a lump of dogshit as well. Ultra slow and shitty battery life now.

[Brian Rubin]

iOS4 pretty much made my 3G unusable as well, so much so I had to downgrade. At this point, I'll be getting an Android phone soon because I'm honestly bored with the iPhone platform, as well as other reasons.

[dgallina]

Personally I thought iOS4 did fine on our 3GS devices. Agree that it's a mess on the 3G, though. Probably shouldn't have released it for that device despite the outcry that would have resulted.

Diego

[Marcus]

Really for me the only reason I liked the iPhone was for the games but in the end that is enough enough to hold me there.

Also the Android phones have emulators ftw.

[metta]

I'm not sure how you consider the fourth iteration version 1.0.



It's new hardware: a redesign using new materials and new tolerances.

Since I began using Apple products, over a decade ago, I've noticed that with their new hardware (rather than just a refresh, like 3G to 3GS) they tend to overreach. Witness the display issues with 27" iMacs and the antenna problems with the iPhone 4. So, I stay away from new Apple hardware until it's been thoroughly rung out, or a revision released.

[stusser]

The iPhone 4 jailbreak is out today. Works great.

http://jailbreakme.com/

[rei]

On my desk I have an iPhone 3G, 3GS, 4 and a non-3G iPad. I'm such a whore. Still an iOS fanboy since the Android experience (Canadian at least) still sucks.

[Coca Cola Zero]

The iPhone 4 jailbreak is out today. Works great.

http://jailbreakme.com/


Kind of scary that they can perform a jailbreak via the web browser because if they can pull that off it seems like someone with less pure motives could do very evil things to your phone using whatever exploit it is they are using here. If they can jailbreak your phone via visiting a web page, someone else can probably brick your phone via visiting a web page. And with a working demo in the wild it seems like it wouldn't be too hard for mere script kiddies to reproduce the exploit.

So on the one hand it is awesome that jailbreaking iPhone 4 is this easy and on the other hand, HOLY SHIT APPLE FIX YOUR SHIT, NOW!

[DennyA]

Yikes. Good point, CCZ.

[stusser]

It uses a PDF exploit, actually. And yeah, it could be used for less pure purposes.

[Jazar]

Apparently you lose MMS and Facetime with the JB as of now anyways.

[stusser]

I don't use 'em. MyWi, I use.

[Jazar]

Looks like there's already a fix.

http://bflasch.com/how-to-fix-facetime-and-mms-on-jailbroken-iph

[JackBurton]

iOS4 pretty much made my 3G unusable as well, so much so I had to downgrade. At this point, I'll be getting an Android phone soon because I'm honestly bored with the iPhone platform, as well as other reasons.


This.


Both wife and I now have practically useless 3Gs.

[stusser]

From what I heard, entirely disabling spotlight in the settings fixes the 3G slowdowns.

[graller]

I just moved from a 3G to the 4 and wow do I love it. So much faster! Civ Revolutions is a different game on this phone :)

[nabeel]

This.


Both wife and I now have practically useless 3Gs.
Coincidentally I just came across this article (http://www.neowin.net/news/sluggish-ios-4-performance-on-the-3g-we-have-the-fix) about the sluggish 3Gs with iO4:


To remedy the sluggish performance (or at least one cause of it) go to “Settings->General->Home Button->Spotlight Search-> deselect every option” and this will stop background indexing on the phone. Several users reported that the fix showed immediate results and Neowin has observed improvements on two separate iPhone 3G devices.
While the fix may not work for all units, it is clearly working for some whose iPhone 3G has become sluggish after the upgrade. It’s a relatively simple fix and there is no harm to the device by testing it out.

[stusser]

I just said that, didn't I?

[nabeel]

I just said that, didn't I?
Sorry stusser, completely missed it.

"Did anyone mention Populous yet?"

[jerri blank]

I hope I'm not going over old ground (I searched the thread), but are any of you using an unlocked Iphone (not necessarily the newest model) on T-Mobile? My partner's recent Itouch purchase has me lusting for an Iphone, but I don't want to leave T-Mo, especially for the ridiculous rates at AT&T.

And I've heard that firmware updates pushed from Apple will re-lock an unlocked phone. Or do I have my facts mixed up? I'm an Iphone n00b.

Thanks!

[rei]

i don't think the relockings were on purpose.

iphones on tmobile can't use 3g only edge right?

[nKoan]

I'm no expert, but I seem to remember reading that the 3G frequencies between AT&T and T-mobile are incompatible.

[jerri blank]

iphones on tmobile can't use 3g only edge right?

That's my understanding, yeah. That's not TOO big a deal for me, since I'll probably try to use Wi-Fi for most of my surfing anyway.

And nkoan, I think people are using Iphones on T-Mo successfully; I just want to make sure I don't get re-locked.

[nKoan]

Yeah, my point was that voice and edge will work, but 3G won't. It may get relocked via software updates, but jailbreaks and unlocks aren't usually far behind.

[rei]

to clarify, i think the relockings were accidental in europe. i don't know if they fixed them but i upgraded my no-contract unlocked iphone 4 from 4.0 to 4.1 without problems.

[jerri blank]

Cool. Thanks, guys. Craigslist is flooded with the last-gen models, so I should be able to pick one up for around $200.

[Bahimiron]

According to AT&T my data usage last month spiked. Except the only time I was using it more was to stream Netflix stuff and Zumocast movies over free wifi at a Barnes and Noble on the weekends. I'm probably getting paranoid, but I find it hard to believe I used 4 gigs over 3G.

[Nixxter]

I'm a slow adopter of technology. For years, though I had a work cell (PDA) I rarely used it and would regularly leave the house without it on weekends.

I got an Iphone 4 just about the time I had to start working from home (leading to surgery and being out on STD until early December).

I've loved it to the point that, if I do end up losing my job when I try to return and resume my career, the first thing I will do is buy my own IPhone despite the expense (the one I have is my firm's property, but the apps and games I buy are my own...).

I'm sure I am only using the tip of the iceberg on its technology so far in the way of apps, etc., but have picked up a number of great games (our thread here helped a lot, though it did keep me up until 4AM recently reading the 100+ pages of dialogue!). And just as a lifestyle change, having contacts, keeping in touch, making more friends, it's helped me a lot to keep my spirits up and enjoy my life instead of getting down in the dumps.

It's been very reliable for me too, with my former PDA, which used AT&T too, my home is in a spot with poor connectivity, but I've had virtually no problems since it connects over my wireless instead.

[TimElhajj]

According to AT&T my data usage last month spiked. Except the only time I was using it more was to stream Netflix stuff and Zumocast movies over free wifi at a Barnes and Noble on the weekends. I'm probably getting paranoid, but I find it hard to believe I used 4 gigs over 3G.

I had a spike like that once that also seemed really odd. I just looked and I had two spikes that soard up to ~900MB on two different months, but otherwise I usually only do about 180MB of data. I have no idea where those spikes came from, but they're much less then yours. That's the problem with the reports -- there really isn't a good way to tell why the data spiked like it shows.

[Jazar]

Let's just say I'm very glad that I still have unlimited.

http://imgur.com/8nvxg.jpg

[ARogan]

You have me beat Jazar. Netflix sure is bandwidth hungry.

http://imgur.com/8aoU6.jpg

[Cold Blooded]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread, but allegations are flying that Verizon will have an iPhone sometime between now and next year.

Any in-the-know Apple experts with inside track on allegations? Still waffling between Droid phone or iPhone, but AT&T has been primary reason for holding off of iDevices so far.

[Jazar]

You have me beat Jazar. Netflix sure is bandwidth hungry.


No tethering either. It's all phone. I watch the Giant Bomb quicklooks exclusively on my phone on 3G. I think the 8Gb month was when they had their endurance run heh.

[jerri blank]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread, but allegations are flying that Verizon will have an iPhone sometime between now and next year.

Any in-the-know Apple experts with inside track on allegations? Still waffling between Droid phone or iPhone, but AT&T has been primary reason for holding off of iDevices so far.

And I keep hearing the same rumors about T-Mobile, which is what made me hold off for so long.

Last night I pulled the trigger and got a 32GB 3GS from Ebay. I'll unlock it next week after the new firmware and unlocks come out.

[Mike Cathcart]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread, but allegations are flying that Verizon will have an iPhone sometime between now and next year.

Any in-the-know Apple experts with inside track on allegations? Still waffling between Droid phone or iPhone, but AT&T has been primary reason for holding off of iDevices so far.
Fortune, The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times all ran articles last month indicating that the Verizon iPhone was a done deal and that it will be announced early next year. Possibly at whatever event they use to announce the new iPads, which could be in January.

[Cold Blooded]

Fortune, The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times all ran articles last month indicating that the Verizon iPhone was a done deal and that it will be announced early next year. Possibly at whatever event they use to announce the new iPads, which could be in January.

Yes, those'd be the allegations in question.

Not particularly hurting for a phone right this moment, may very well be worth it to wait a few more months rather than to jump the gun with Droid phone.

[jerri blank]

Question for you more seasoned Iphone owners: Starting today I've been getting calls from an unknown party that my Googling tells me is a scammer. On my old Android phone, I could create a contact for such a number and then direct the phone to ignore the call without even ringing. I haven't been able to figure out how to do that on the Iphone.

Is that a feature available to me?

[rei]

Jailbroken phones have a paid app called iBlacklist.

[Andrew Mayer]

Is it possible to unlock and AT&T iphone, or is that all mystery and rumors?

[jerri blank]

Is it possible to unlock and AT&T iphone, or is that all mystery and rumors?

I did. Using t-mobile and posting from it now.

[Andrew Mayer]

I did. Using t-mobile and posting from it now.

Info? I'm heading over to New Zealand, and changing out the SIM would be a lovely solution.

[jerri blank]

I would spend some time at iClarified.com, which has some good tutorials. If you can go into settings | general | about and see what your firmware version and modem firmware (aka "baseband") are, that will help.

If you haven't yet upgraded to the 4.2 firmware, you're better off not doing that. The jailbreak for that version is not very good yet - basically you have to re-jailbreak every time you reboot the phone for whatever reason.

I jailbroke using a program called redsn0w, which runs on your computer, then unlocked with a program called ultrasn0w, which you download through a program called Cydia that you install when you jailbreak.

PM me with your firmware and baseband version, and I can give you a bit more help. Also include in the PM which phone you have.

[Marcus]

I seem to recall that you don't get 3g speeds if you use the phone on T-Mobile.

[espressojim]

I seem to recall that you don't get 3g speeds if you use the phone on T-Mobile.

I seem to recall not getting 3g speeds on AT&T.

[Marcus]

I seem to recall not getting 3g speeds on AT&T.


I recall getting 0g speed with full bars.

[jerri blank]

I seem to recall that you don't get 3g speeds if you use the phone on T-Mobile.

That's correct.

[robsam]

I seem to recall that you don't get 3g speeds if you use the phone on T-Mobile.

You also don't get tech support. They will try to help, and many times they can solve your problem, but forget about being an aggressive ass and demanding they fix a really hard problem, they don't have any real obligation or the resources to do so.

My 3GS is on the AT&T network and I am still in love with it, but I understand now after reading many posts here on QT3 that it is probably because of the area I live in. They just have strong coverage here, so I don't deal with the frustration people in San Fran deal with.

[rei]

can you unlock 3gs, not 4. it's sort of a hack using ipad baseband and you can't reboot it without it plugged into the pc.

[jerri blank]

can you unlock 3gs, not 4. it's sort of a hack using ipad baseband and you can't reboot it without it plugged into the pc.

I successfully jailbroke a 3gs.

If you upgraded to the 4.2 firmware, you're stuck with the "tethered" jailbreak for now, but there's an untethered one in the works. I managed to downgrade mine back to 4.1 to work around that problem.

The more annoying issue is that if you have a baseband that can't be unlocked right now (I think that's 5.14.02) and upgrade to 6.15.00 (the Ipad baseband) so that you CAN unlock, there's a battery drain problem that you have to work around with yet ANOTHER hack.

Right now I'm cautiously in the "it's worth it" camp, but we'll see if I stay there. I spent the better part of last weekend trying to get everything working right.

EDIT: If you activated the phone with an AT&T sim, you don't need to worry about the battery drain problem. The battery drain was caused by the "hacktivation" done by Ultrasn0w.

[Tim James]

Gah, I need some help deciding whether to get my wife an iPhone for Christmas. I wanted to wait to see how things shook out this year, but getting her one now might distract her from the iPad. (She'd use it for a week and then get excited about the next gadget; the phone should stay useful for a while.)

I've never had a problem on AT&T with normal calls on our regular phones in this area. Most of her friends and family are on AT&T, and her mom is on our plan, so the free mobile minutes are nice.

I mention this because I'm not sure whether I want to lock into a 2 year agreement. Can I get a used/refurb 3GS without a new contract perhaps? She likes the best of everything, but we haven't moved to smart phones yet so it might be good enough for now.

[Zylon]

She likes the best of everything, but we haven't moved to smart phones yet so it might be good enough for now.
Then get her a Samsung Galaxy phone.

Or do you really mean she likes the shiniest and trendiest of everything?

[Tim James]

Or do you really mean she likes the shiniest and trendiest of everything?That's exactly what I mean. I thought that was obvious when it came to non-geek women.

I'm praying for Apple to dissolve.

[jerri blank]

I've been happy with my 3GS since I got all the kinks worked out with the jailbreaking, the unlocking, etc. etc. If you plan to stay with AT&T, you won't even have to worry about the unlocking - just pop in the SIM (I assume).

[Stridergg]

I mention this because I'm not sure whether I want to lock into a 2 year agreement. Can I get a used/refurb 3GS without a new contract perhaps? She likes the best of everything, but we haven't moved to smart phones yet so it might be good enough for now.

While I am not from the US, I think you can buy a used 3GS - I seem to remember some US people saying they are going to sell their when iPhone 4 was coming out. Just check your local Kijiji (HTF do you spell it) or Craiglist.

Also, in Canada, you can buy a non-subsidized (i.e. no contract) phone from a provider or directly from Apple. They should go for pretty cheap now.

OTOH though, you could buy her a new iPhone 4 for only $149 from Radioshack (16GB model on a 2 year contract, of course). If she is on AT&T anyway, has no issues and not going to switch any time soon, might as well save some money.

[rei]

It's $650-750 for an unlocked iPhone 4 from Apple.

[nlanza]

Then get her a Samsung Galaxy phone.

Or do you really mean she likes the shiniest and trendiest of everything?

Sometimes I can almost imagine Zylon secretly working for Apple's marketing department, helping to cement the idea that Android is the system made for your office's dickhead IT guy who makes fun of you when you ask him to fix your computer, and who wants to be like that dude?

[Marcus]

Well I kinda agree.

I would have an iPhone if it were on Verizon. I hath no love for Android.

[DennyA]

The 4 is SOOO much nicer than the 3GS, though. I had a 3GS (and my wife still does) and I upgraded to the 4... Not only is the 4 much more responsive, with a dramatically sharper display, but despite all the hooplah about the "antenna problem," in reality it drops calls much less frequently than the 3GS.*

In our offices, which have terrible AT&T coverage, I used to drop calls on the 3GS all the time. On the 4, I lose maybe once a week. (And only at the office.) And if you're having to sign up for AT&T anyway, the 4's not expensive.

Android is the Linux of phones. :) Lots of stuff tech geeks can appreciate, but the experience can't compare to the iPhone's for non-technical users.

* Unless you have no case/bumper and you "hold it that way."

[Nellie]

I agree with Denny regarding the 4. The 3 and 3GS were great at everything except being a phone. I do still find myself putting the phone to my ear for 20 seconds or so and then having to look at it to see if it is actually trying to connect a call, but it is much more reliable than my previous phones.

I actually liked both Android and Windows Mobile offerings and if you're not already tied to or sold on an iphone specifically I think they're both worth checking out.

Having bought sim free though, I felt the build quality alone of the Iphone4 compared to everything else on the market was worth paying that little extra for. And from a practical point of view, as a previous Iphone owner and Mac/Itunes user there was the small factor of knowing I just had to plug the thing in and it would pick up where the old phone left off otherwise the other phones might have won out over the iphone, it was a close run thing.

[jerri blank]

Please stop making me want a 4. :)

(Chanting to self: "The 3GS is fine for now. The 3GS is fine for now.")

BTW, modmyi.com had a story (http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-news/741657-rumor-sams-club-sell-iphone-4-147-a.html) yesterday about Sam's Club selling the 3GS for $47 and the 4 for $147 with a 2-year commitment to AT&T. It's not on sale just yet, but it probably will be.

[Tim James]

I have to think that after Christmas, the market will be flooded with lightly used 3GS models. If I could grab one from an acquaintance for $100 with no contract, that would be ideal. My wife said she would only want the 4, but this way she could try it out and upgrade at the next hardware revision. We'll see. Probably not for Christmas though.

[Zylon]

Sometimes I can almost imagine Zylon secretly working for Apple's marketing department, helping to cement the idea that Android is the system made for your office's handsome and successful IT guy who makes fun of you when you ask him to fix your Mac, and who wants to be like that dude?
Fixed. Careful, you almost spilled your beret.


Android is the Linux of phones. :) Lots of stuff tech geeks can appreciate, but the experience can't compare to the iPhone's for non-technical users.
It seems more broadly accurate to say that Android is the Windows of phones. I don't know what that makes Windows Phone 7. AmigaOS?

[Stridergg]

I have to think that after Christmas, the market will be flooded with lightly used 3GS models. If I could grab one from an acquaintance for $100 with no contract, that would be ideal. My wife said she would only want the 4, but this way she could try it out and upgrade at the next hardware revision. We'll see. Probably not for Christmas though.

I wouldn't count on the $100 pricetag but who knows.

[nlanza]

Fixed. Careful, you almost spilled your beret.

Gosh, the only way that could have been more of a burn is if you'd recited it in Klingon.

[DennyA]

I have to think that after Christmas, the market will be flooded with lightly used 3GS models. If I could grab one from an acquaintance for $100 with no contract, that would be ideal.
If so, can you send those acquantances to me afterwards so I can sell them some bargain Florida real eastate, that'd be awesome.

The going rate on eBay/Craiglist for used 3GSes is $250-$325. Not having a contract adds a lot of resale value.

When I sold my 3GS to upgrade to the iPhone 4, I ended with a new phone, and a $25 profit even after buying a bumper to go along with it.

[jerri blank]

Yeah, I don't see any way you're getting a 3GS for $100 unless you really do have an acquaintance willing to be that nice.

[Tim James]

The exact number isn't important.

I'm not sure why I'm quibbling about the contract and price. Even breaking the contract wouldn't be the end of the world. I think it's just how I see consumer purchases versus my wife, combined with Apple's continuous upgrades. I'd rather ride out a cheap older model and wait to see how the cellular world shakes out over the next year.

[rei]

51 cent iphone 4 cases from monoprice today:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10831&cs_id=1083111&p_id=7104&seq=1&format=2

[Stridergg]

The exact number isn't important.

I'm not sure why I'm quibbling about the contract and price. Even breaking the contract wouldn't be the end of the world. I think it's just how I see consumer purchases versus my wife, combined with Apple's continuous upgrades. I'd rather ride out a cheap older model and wait to see how the cellular world shakes out over the next year.

I would get the 4 for $150 on the contract and ride out the next couple of years with it. IMO the 4 is a much much better phone than the 3GS (if you are choosing which one to buy now), I don't expect the 5 (or any Android) to be anything groundbreaking next year and the 4 should be damn good until the 6 somes out in 2012.

[Tim James]

Yeah I was thinking an LTE phone might come out next year, but maybe not. And it's unlikely our area would be in the initial rollout. Now I'm leaning toward the 4 and taking it as a hand-me-down later if we have to upgrade.

Is it safe to consider the 16 GB model? She already has a 3rd gen iPod touch that I think is 32 GB. I will probably steal that for myself to play games, but not at the rate people are going in the threads here. I can't imagine the two of us personally putting 48 GB worth of shit on our handheld devices in the next year or two.

You mentioned the $150 upgrade. Is that for the refurb, or a lower price if you already have an existing iPhone?

[ARogan]

Depends on what kind of user you are. I currently have 268 apps installed and < 2GB free on my 32gb iPhone 4. I'm constantly running out of space and juggling apps.

[Stridergg]

Yeah I was thinking an LTE phone might come out next year, but maybe not. And it's unlikely our area would be in the initial rollout. Now I'm leaning toward the 4 and taking it as a hand-me-down later if we have to upgrade.

Is it safe to consider the 16 GB model? She already has a 3rd gen iPod touch that I think is 32 GB. I will probably steal that for myself to play games, but not at the rate people are going in the threads here. I can't imagine the two of us personally putting 48 GB worth of shit on our handheld devices in the next year or two.

You mentioned the $150 upgrade. Is that for the refurb, or a lower price if you already have an existing iPhone?

About the $150 deal. It's a brand new phone, no trade in (you can get additional $125 off if you trade in a 3GS), here are the details:

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2010/12/radioshack-takes-50-iphone-4-3gs/


As for 16 GB vs 32 GB, as ARogan said, it all depends on how you use it. Will you have a "disconnected" (the one that doesn't stream the map data, like Navigon or TomTom) GPS app on it? That's over 1GB for the NA edition but you could get something like USEast or whatever.

Are you ok with converting your music to 128 kbs ACC? iTines can do it seemlessly for you during the syncing. Doing that shrunk my music from 18 GB to about 7 (and that's A LOT of music, for me at least), I can't tell the difference but everyone's ears are different.

Are you planning to play (and keep having them on the device) lots of games? Games are generally the largest apps. There is no reason to have 20 games on your phone at any given time, a casual gamer might be ok with having like 5.

Are you planning to watch movies on the device?

On average, let's say 1GB for GPS, 7 for music, 2 for movies, 3 for games, 2 for apps (regular apps are under 20 MB per, on average) and you still have a bit less than 1 GB to spare for pictures, shooting videos and emergencies. If that seems ok than 16 GB should be enough.

I don't like syncing too often, so I just got the 32 GB.

[Jazar]

Also if you are interested in games the file sizes just keep getting bigger and bigger for large scale iPhone games.

[Tim James]

Okay thanks. My wife is always playing on iTunes and messing with her iPod Touch, so syncing and shuffling stuff around should be fine. She only has 1.7 GB of music anyway. It's just a few singles she listens to while running.