odd G20 protester arrest

[Cubit]

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CNa_viKg0

Is it staged, or a really messed up "arrest"?

edit: After examining the end of the video, I don't think this is staged. After the car pulls away, you can see a riot cop that was standing near the front of the vehicle.

[Eric P]

as i said to my friend who is there now, "if you're going to protest, bring a gun and a sign demanding the birth certificate and you'll be left alone by the cops."

[salwon]

So, we really don't have anything to go on. Maybe he tried to deck one of those NG guys. Or maybe he had a bomb.

I fail to see the "messed up" bit.

[Marcus]

He could have been trying to incite a riot. During these protests you'll frequently see the anarchists show up and try to get the crowd going as it may be.

[Soapyfrog]

A bunch of guys in military fatigues grab a guy off the street and stuff him into an unmarked car, withhout any due process that I can see, and you think that's not fucked up?

Pretty sure that's kidnapping.

[Marcus]

A bunch of guys in military fatigues grab a guy off the street and stuff him into an unmarked car, withhout any due process that I can see, and you think that's not fucked up?

Pretty sure that's kidnapping.


lol. Ok.

[Soapyfrog]

Wow, seriously? You think that's ok? Seriously is that in anyway legal? If I were that guy I'd have been resisting with all my strength.

[Cubit]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/september2009/250909top.jpg

I'm just curious why MPs were involved, or whoever the camoed dudes are.

[WarrenM]

Don't you think we'll need some more context before passing judgement here, soapyfrog? Who knows what went on before that arrest scene.

[salwon]

That's what I'm saying. As it turns out, it IS legal to arrest people. Especially if they're committing a crime!

[Soapyfrog]

Sure, arrest away. I didn't see an arrest I saw a kidnapping by ununiformed individuals in an unmarked car.

[Marcus]

Wow, seriously?

Yes Seriously.

You think that's ok?
Sure depending on the situation.

Seriously is that in anyway legal?

Sure it is again depending on the situation. First off the clip is less then 30 seconds long and second off it is not like they drove up to some random dude on the street and grabbed him ( Though if you saw that you might assume that was illegal if you had no idea what was going on).

If I were that guy I'd have been resisting with all my strength.

Sweet idea! I'd love to see the youtube video of that.

[Huzurdaddi]

as i said to my friend who is there now, "if you're going to protest, bring a gun and a sign demanding the birth certificate and you'll be left alone by the cops."

Don't forget that you have to flagrantly display the gun as well. Of course this only works if you are helping the cause of the rich, so it probably won't work if you are protesting the G20.

[salwon]

Sure, arrest away. I didn't see an arrest I saw a kidnapping by ununiformed individuals in an unmarked car.

No, what you saw was ~20 seconds of video. We have no way of knowing right now what happened before this.

[WarrenM]

It's an awfully convenient editing job. Just the arrest, no context.

[salwon]

It's an awfully convenient editing job. Just the arrest, no context.

I think the guy was just filming the crowd, heard a commotion, and caught the money shot. OUTRAGE~!~!~!~

[CheesyPoof]

That's what I'm saying. As it turns out, it IS legal to arrest people. Especially if they're committing a crime!

Depends on who is doing the arrest. The US military is not legally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act) allowed to arrest people. National Guard operating under the authority of the Governor are. Given that they're in fatigues I'd given the benefit to the doubt that they are guardsmen, but from the video I can't tell either way.

[Marcus]

They could be local law enforcement as well. They do dress that way depending on the unit.

[salwon]

Depends on who is doing the arrest. The US military is not legally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act) allowed to arrest people. National Guard operating under the authority of the Governor are. Given that they're in fatigues I'd given the benefit to the doubt that they are guardsmen, but from the video I can't tell either way.

They're almost definitely Guard, since we know (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/24/us/24pittsburgh.html) they deployed a battalion to help the locals. Unless we want to play the story totally crazy, which I suppose isn't far off.

[Soapyfrog]

Getting stuffed into a car by people in miltary fatigues is the kinda thing that happens in the Balkans (or maybe Northern Ireland during the troubles). It is not right that suspects can be simply bundled into unmarked vehicles by unidentified men and whisked away to who knows where.

It's certain that if you want people to resist extra hard you can do it by making them feel like by submitting they place themselves in grave danger.

[ElGuapo]

Don't they usually ziptie people they are arresting? Don't they usually restrain them first and maybe Mirandize them on the spot? Don't they usually pull up a little slower and just put the guy in the car/truck/van or whatever?

I don't know if this is legal or not, but it looks fucking terrible, no matter what happened preceding it and why it was done. It looks absolutely terrible.

It also appears a crowd was chasing them so they might have been trying to do it quickly.

[JackBurton]

Many SWAT/ERT teams around the country dress in camouflage, but my guess is these guysa are NG.

[JackBurton]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/september2009/250909top.jpg

I'm just curious why MPs were involved, or whoever the camoed dudes are.


Those are the 3 guys from the video. The brown crown vic is in the background and the black guy on the right who is obscured is the one in the video wearing the old style woodland camo.

[nlanza]

Don't they usually ziptie people they are arresting? Don't they usually restrain them first and maybe Mirandize them on the spot? Don't they usually pull up a little slower and just put the guy in the car/truck/van or whatever?

All the other photos/videos of G20 arrests on the news here that I can remember have involved zipties, yeah.

I dunno what's going on here; I can't quite tell if it's a hoax, if it's police/guard pulling an informant out of the crowd, if it's a weird kidnapping, or what.

[Eduardo X]

That's fucking chilling.

[JackBurton]

If you look at the video there is a 4th guy getting into the passenger side of the car in the background. He is wearing what looks like a blue tactical outfit of some kind.

My guess is that these guys are from some mash up of units brought in to help with the protests.

[JMR]

My guess is that they're Combine soldiers.

[arctangent]

“Military members supporting the G20 Summit work with local law enforcement authorities but do not have the authority to make arrests. The individuals involved in the 9/24/09 arrest which has appeared online are law enforcement officers from a multi-agency tactical response team assigned to the security operations for the G20. It is not unusual for tactical team members to wear camouflaged fatigues. The type of fatigues the officers wear designates their unit affiliation.

Prior to the arrest, the officers observed this subject vandalizing a local business. Due to the hostile nature of the crowd, officer safety and the safety of the person under arrest, the subject was immediately removed from the area.”

Press release from the G20 security people.

[Adree]

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CNa_viKg0



A good start.

[Rimbo]

“Military members supporting the G20 Summit work with local law enforcement authorities but do not have the authority to make arrests. The individuals involved in the 9/24/09 arrest which has appeared online are law enforcement officers from a multi-agency tactical response team assigned to the security operations for the G20. It is not unusual for tactical team members to wear camouflaged fatigues. The type of fatigues the officers wear designates their unit affiliation.

Prior to the arrest, the officers observed this subject vandalizing a local business. Due to the hostile nature of the crowd, officer safety and the safety of the person under arrest, the subject was immediately removed from the area.”

Nonsense! This is obviously an attempt by Big Brother to silence its critics using kidnapping and intimidation! Don't these G20 people read blogs? Why, I've read seventeen different blogs today all saying the same thing, and I'm supposed to believe some crappy propaganda piece by people actually involved?

(Sarcasm meter calibration warning.)

[Rimbo]

A good start.

Agreed.

[Cubit]

Agreed.

Fuck yeah, man. Next time those officers should thrown in a little police brutality to show those young hippies who is boss.

(Sarcasm meter calibration warning.)

[Anti-Bunny]

as i said to my friend who is there now, "if you're going to protest, bring a gun and a sign demanding the birth certificate and you'll be left alone by the cops."

While I'm sure that was a real zinger with your friend, it probably has something to do with how most of the tea party people have jobs or are retirees and are not teenage anarchists.

[Eric P]

neither is my friend but whatevz

[Hawkeye Fierce]

While I'm sure that was a real zinger with your friend, it probably has something to do with how most of the tea party people have jobs or are retirees and are not teenage anarchists.Wow dude. Wow.

[Anti-Bunny]

neither is my friend but whatevz

Anarchists were present specifically to start shit. So shit was started.
BUT WHATEVZ

[Rimbo]

I'm all in favor of the 1st Amendment and peaceful protest. Emphasis on "peaceful." Too many of the G20/WTO protesters seem to show up looking for a fight. Granted, so are the cops (cf. Seattle WTO a while back), sometimes, but this time, it's pretty clear they saw someone trying to start trouble and got him out of there before things got ugly. And that's exactly what police ought to be doing in a situation like this, if you ask me -- not instigating, not cleaning up the mess afterwards, but doing what they can to keep things peaceful.

[Eric P]

Anarchists were present specifically to start shit. So shit was started.
BUT WHATEVZ

is that what they were there specifically to do?

[Anti-Bunny]

is that what they were there specifically to do?

They refused to even attempt to get a protest permit, knowing full well that would bring in riot cops charged with dispersing them.
They went in wearing goggles and facemasks to prepare for teargas.

Oh fucking use your head.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2d7iy38.jpg
Are you really trying to tell me that this flier is for a peaceful protest?

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Did AB and Matt Gallant switch places for a day or something?

[Anti-Bunny]

Did AB and Matt Gallant switch places for a day or something?
Oh bullshit. Unlike Matt, I'm not over-panicking over boogiemen in an attempt to marginalize peaceful dissent. I disagree with the left wing, but I'm not using this to try and prove they are all violently insane.

[Marcus]

AB is right though. The Anarchists are just there to start shit and nothing else.

We saw them try it during the Prop 8 protests in Hollywood last year as luck would have it though the crowd didn't go along with them but you could see them attempting to incite the crowd.

[Rimbo]

AB is right though. The Anarchists are just there to start shit and nothing else.

The way they behave, it's almost as if ... as if they subscribe to a belief system which is against the mere existence of governmental authority or something.

[Jonathan Crane]

The way they behave, it's almost as if ... as if they subscribe to a belief system which is against the mere existence of governmental authority or something.

I mean, say what you like about the tenets of Anarchism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

[Rimbo]

why does everything have to be such a fucking travesty with you, man?

[bago]

it probably has something to do with how most of the tea party people have jobs or are retirees

Does your head spin from pulling a cognitive 180 that fast?

[Rimbo]

don't be fatuous, jeffrey

[Anti-Bunny]

Does your head spin from pulling a cognitive 180 that fast?

How so?

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Oh bullshit. Unlike Matt, I'm not over-panicking over boogiemen in an attempt to marginalize peaceful dissent.From my perspective, neither was Matt. Your mischaracterization of his position notwithstanding, you sound EXACTLY LIKE HIM in this thread.

I disagree with the left wing, but I'm not using this to try and prove they are all violently insane.Nor was Matt attempting to show that ALL right-wingers were violently insane. But you clearly can't see the parallels, so WHATEVZ.

Whatevz should be the new P&R dismissal phrase. So much more street cred than "Good day, sir!"

[Matthew Gallant]

I believe you Anti-Bunny. You're not using violent anarchists to demonize the left wing. After all, their respective views on the question of "how much government?" places the anarchists closer to libertarians, if it were not for the lack of hard-ons for money.

[WarrenM]

don't be fatuous, jeffrey

You mean intercourse?

[Rimbo]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the basic tenet of libertarians was that government was a "necessary evil," whereas the anarchists see it more as an "unnecessary evil."

Maybe I'm just ignorant on the subject, but that seems to me to be a pretty significant distinction.

[Rimbo]

You mean intercourse?

The word itself makes some men uncomfortable: Vagina.

[Anti-Bunny]

From my perspective, neither was Matt. Your mischaracterization of his position notwithstanding, you sound EXACTLY LIKE HIM in this thread.
Oh, I guess I missed where I called this a LEFT-WING TERRORIST PLOT that should be blamed on OBERMANNN. Can you point that out?
Nor was Matt attempting to show that ALL right-wingers were violently insane.
I believe he called it "vigorously exercising liberty and against health care mandates"

I believe you Anti-Bunny. You're not using violent anarchists to demonize the left wing. After all, their respective views on the question of "how much government?" places the anarchists closer to libertarians, if it were not for the lack of hard-ons for money.
I believe you are an idiot. WHATEVZ

[bago]

How so?

The logic in that sentence. "Unlike young protestors, old teabaggers have jerbs! Or don't."

HIPPIES!!!!!

[Anti-Bunny]

The logic in that sentence. "Unlike young protestors, old teabaggers have jerbs! Or don't."

HIPPIES!!!!!

Except I'm not talking about Hippies, and you are crazy.

[Anti-Bunny]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the basic tenet of libertarians was that government was a "necessary evil," whereas the anarchists see it more as an "unnecessary evil."

Maybe I'm just ignorant on the subject, but that seems to me to be a pretty significant distinction.

No, you got it right. Discussing politics with an anarchist is a little like discussing romantic relationships with a rapist.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Oh, I guess I missed where I called this a LEFT-WING TERRORIST PLOT that should be blamed on OBERMANNN. Can you point that out?I guess I missed where I said that's actually what Matt was doing.

You posted a picture of a rally poster and claimed it proved these protesters were intent on violence. This is about the same level of logic that you have mercilessly mocked Matt for. I guess it's different because...well, I don't know why it's different. Probably because you don't agree with these protesters, but do agree (a little) with the tea baggers.

[Anti-Bunny]

You posted a picture of a rally poster and claimed it proved these protesters were intent on violence. This is about the same level of logic that you have mercilessly mocked Matt for. I guess it's different because...well, I don't know why it's different.
Except actually Matt posted a flyer made by left-wingers trying to frame dissenters as being homicidal racists.

But, maybe you're right, maybe the anarchists aren't really violent at all.
http://i37.tinypic.com/2dv7jvt.jpg
Yeah, when they say smash, they really just mean that metaphorically, not with throwing stones through squad car windows or anything.
http://i37.tinypic.com/2l9mo0y.jpg
Oh wait, no, you're wrong (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1926196,00.html?iid=sphere-inline-sidebar).
http://5.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kp6sg2LpjW1qztpggo1_500.jpg

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Except actually Matt posted a flyer made by left-wingers trying to frame dissenters as being homicidal racists.Yeah, and that was stupid. He also posted a bunch of other, legitimate stuff, that was at least mildly disturbing.

You seem to be confused - I'm not trying to defend Matt here, I'm saying your logic is as bad as his.

But, maybe you're right, maybe the anarchists aren't really violent at all.I also didn't say they aren't violent. Just that your logic regarding that poster is suspiciously similar to Matt.

You have this weird habit of taking people's statements far beyond what they actually say - it's actually what your mockery of Matt is based on, as far as I can see.

You want to talk about the anarchists being violent, try talking about the actual violence. Otherwise you're doing exactly what you've been a huge dick about in all those "right wing terrorism" threads.

[Rimbo]

I think what Anti-Bunny has demonstrated -- pretty well, in fact -- is that for the anarchists, the violence is the point and premeditated. How people behave at "tea parties" is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Eduardo X]

Is this the early 1900s again? Where we just make a blanket condemnation of anarchists because there are a few violent ones?
Is Noam Chomsky violent because he's an anarchist? Does he light dumpsters on fire?

The whole idea of needing a permit to protest, to use your first amendment right to speech and to assemble? That seems like a limitation on the amendment. It would mean that all spontaneity of protest or assembly would be stripped out of the amendment.

People are also ignoring that it isn't just anarchists at the protests.

[Eduardo X]

I think what Anti-Bunny has demonstrated -- pretty well, in fact -- is that for the anarchists, the violence is the point and premeditated. How people behave at "tea parties" is irrelevant to the discussion.
Who, exactly, made those posters?

[Hawkeye Fierce]

People are also ignoring that it isn't just anarchists at the protests.This would pretty much be what set me off in the first place - the idea that everyone there was a jobless teenage anarchist. Guilt by association and all that.

[Cubit]

Is this the early 1900s again? Where we just make a blanket condemnation of anarchists because there are a few violent ones?
Is Noam Chomsky violent because he's an anarchist? Does he light dumpsters on fire?

The whole idea of needing a permit to protest, to use your first amendment right to speech and to assemble? That seems like a limitation on the amendment. It would mean that all spontaneity of protest or assembly would be stripped out of the amendment.

People are also ignoring that it isn't just anarchists at the protests.

Well, Chomsky is more anarchist/libertarian socialist, but I agree with you totally. :)

[Eduardo X]

I call myself an anarchist, though I'm more libertarian socialist as well. In fact, anarchism is more an umbrella term than anything.

[Anti-Bunny]

This would pretty much be what set me off in the first place - the idea that everyone there was a jobless teenage anarchist. Guilt by association and all that.

Except I didn't say everyone at the protest was an anarchist.. There are legitimate concerns with the G20 worthy of protest, but I'm sure that anyone sane saw anarchists showing up with gasmasks and rocks and decided to leave before the teargas started flying.

What I DID say was that the anarchists don't go to tea parties, suggesting that might be why the cops don't see much action at them (I mean, aside from that one instance where they had to pull a union protester off of a black conservative). It has nothing to do with them 'being birthers or gun owners so the cops leave them alone', they simply behave themselves at the tea parties.

[Rimbo]

This would pretty much be what set me off in the first place - the idea that everyone there was a jobless teenage anarchist. Guilt by association and all that.

And only ONE person was arrested.

Which would seem to suggest that the police were using excellent discretion.

And yes, I'd say that "peaceful anarchist" is an oxymoron. If you think you're such a thing, then you probably just haven't really thought things through.

On the other hand, it does seem odd to me that anarchists would oppose capitalism.

[Jason McCullough]

Huh? It has a long history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism) of violence, but there's nothing in it that's inherently violent.

[Anti-Bunny]

To be honest, I really liked The Man Who Was Thursday.

[Eduardo X]

It seems odd to you that anarchists would oppose anarchism? And that anarchists could be peaceful?
Do you know anything about the theories of anarchism?

[Rimbo]

It seems odd to you that anarchists would oppose anarchism? And that anarchists could be peaceful?
Do you know anything about the theories of anarchism?

It's a matter of taking any system of beliefs to its logical conclusion; you start unearthing all kinds of odd contradictions.

[bago]

Except I'm not talking about Hippies, and you are crazy.

So classic strawman topic? avoid the substance of the conversation where you regared empployment as a deciding factor in police response and then within two words undercut your thesis.
You see the word hippies and go off.

The original question had to do with you using job status as an indicator of the appropriateness of violence in a police response being tied to a job status, and then you undermined your entire thesis by including the words "and retirees".

You can't even maintain a thesis within one sentence. This is what I am mocking.


Of course if I wave the hippie flag one paragraph later you charge it fully and only, well, demonstrate your priorities.

[Anti-Bunny]

So classic strawman topic? avoid the substance of the conversation where you regared empployment as a deciding factor in police response and then within two words undercut your thesis.
You see the word hippies and go off.

The original question had to do with you using job status as an indicator of the appropriateness of violence in a police response being tied to a job status, and then you undermined your entire thesis by including the words "and retirees".

You can't even maintain a thesis within one sentence. This is what I am mocking.


Of course if I wave the hippie flag one paragraph later you charge it fully and only, well, demonstrate your priorities.

You sure are crazy.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

What I DID say was that the anarchists don't go to tea parties, suggesting that might be why the cops don't see much action at them (I mean, aside from that one instance where they had to pull a union protester off of a black conservative). It has nothing to do with them 'being birthers or gun owners so the cops leave them alone', they simply behave themselves at the tea parties.I think the comparison Eric was making was the difference in treatment between peaceful protesters on the right- and left-wings. There does seem to be a double standard.

[Anti-Bunny]

I think the comparison Eric was making was the difference in treatment between peaceful protesters on the right- and left-wings. There does seem to be a double standard.

You may think that all you like, but he was comparing the G20 riots with townhall and tea party protests.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

You may think that all you like, but he was comparing the G20 riots with townhall and tea party protests.No, he said he gave some advice to a friend of his. You're the one that turned this into some litmus test for all protests everywhere.

[Anti-Bunny]

You're the one that turned this into some litmus test for all protests everywhere.

Nope, sorry, that wasn't me

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Nope, sorry, that wasn't meOh, so you mis-spoke. Fair enough.

[foogla]

You sure are crazy.

can you please stop this shit?

[Anti-Bunny]

can you please stop this shit?

Why, was there something in bago's post seriously worth considering or discussing?

Oh, so you mis-spoke. Fair enough.
Nope, didn't do that either. Hey, it's saturday, so I can't sit around and respond to your shitposts all day. Can you get to your point? We've already covered several times that I'm not calling this a left-wing protest, so move on.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Nope, didn't do that either. Hey, it's saturday, so I can't sit around and respond to your shitposts all day. Can you get to your point?Ah yes, the "I'm so bored with you that I'll respond ad infinitum without actually discussing something." My point has been stated already. I think you overreached in your response to Erik's advice to his friend. I also think you danced gleefully over the line of hypocrisy with your poster nonsense. I thought I'd given you plenty of opportunity to turn this into an interesting discussion, but you always take the asshole route, so I dunno. Enjoy your Saturday.

[Anti-Bunny]

Ah yes, the "I'm so bored with you that I'll respond ad infinitum without actually discussing something." My point has been stated already. I think you overreached in your response to Erik's advice to his friend.
My response paraphrased was 'it has nothing to do with being birthers or gunowners, but maybe if they had jobs or were geriatric retirees, instead of teenage anarchists, they wouldn't be getting hit with teargas'. How is that overreaching? Are these not teenage anarchists? Do anarchists hold real jobs now instead of just odd jobs for cash while filing for state unemployment checks?I also think you danced gleefully over the line of hypocrisy with your poster nonsense. I thought I'd given you plenty of opportunity to turn this into an interesting discussion, but you always take the asshole route, so I dunno. Enjoy your Saturday.
I gleefully danced over the line when you continued your 'YOU SOUND JUST LIKE MATT' bullshit, even after very easily disproving that.

But clearly I am the one that has taken the asshole route, a path you clearly never travel. Clearly, this thread couldn't possibly go on for five more pages of you mischaracterizing me. Clearly, that sort of thing never happens on Qt3. Clearly.

[Eduardo X]

Do anarchists hold real jobs now instead of just odd jobs for cash while filing for state unemployment checks?
WTF? You're going to have to site something before you get away with something something so daft.

It's a matter of taking any system of beliefs to its logical conclusion; you start unearthing all kinds of odd contradictions.
Again, show me which version of anarchism is all about destruction and violence, and then maybe we can have a conversation.

[Cubit]

And only ONE person was arrested.

Which would seem to suggest that the police were using excellent discretion.

And yes, I'd say that "peaceful anarchist" is an oxymoron. If you think you're such a thing, then you probably just haven't really thought things through.

On the other hand, it does seem odd to me that anarchists would oppose capitalism.

It's a matter of taking any system of beliefs to its logical conclusion; you start unearthing all kinds of odd contradictions.

I love it when Rimbo starts talking about shit he knows nothing about. A "peaceful anarchist" is in no way an oxymoron, and there are gobs of people out there that would fit quite comfortably under that label. You are taking the "squeaky wheels" and extrapolating their behavior to paste on everyone who isn't a fan of hierarchy and would call themselves an anarchist. Cut it out.

Anarcho-pacifism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-pacifism)

[Eduardo X]

Damned anarchists. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akwjAjcQnqM)

[Cubit]

Damned anarchists. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akwjAjcQnqM)

Watching the way those riot police taped their sticks in rhythm and marched forward sent a chill up my spine...

edit: God, the very end with the sound weapon loudspeaker is even worse.

Yay for the 1st amendment?

[Destarius]

I thought the guy in blue with the loudhailer was an ass. I am surprised the police didn't just shut him down by grabbing him.

Also, I disdain public protesters of all stripes, peaceful or otherwise. There are far more effective ways that don't involve shutting down roads with their stupid marches and placards.

[Cubit]

I thought the guy in blue with the loudhailer was an ass. I am surprised the police didn't just shut him down by grabbing him.

Also, I disdain public protesters of all stripes, peaceful or otherwise. There are far more effective ways that don't involve shutting down roads with their stupid marches and placards.

Honestly, do you really believe this? Were the civil rights protests of the 1960s just "stupid" nonsense?

You are either a fucking troll or thick skulled beyond belief.

[Adree]

Quit beating your chests for a moment and notice that the rifle has an orange tip.

Upon consultation and reflection it could be a bean bag gun, but I've yet to find a picture of one that has both the orange stock and an orange tip. There is a sound that could be a bean bag gun discharging before the shitty camera pans to the guy being stuffed though.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2rgknly.png

[Eduardo X]

http://www.hogueproducts.com/getgrip/images/LessLethal1.jpg

I guess these fire bean bag rounds.

[Joe M.]

I think it'd be less disturbing if they stuffed him in some type of official vehicle. I'm not sure why, but it'd feel less like kidnapping?

Anyway he's white so he'll be ok. If he were brown he'd probably disappear from the face of the earth.

[cheapfilms]

Didn't see this posted and I'm not really sure about the debate(?) but thought it was interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etv8YEqaWgA

Just the quality of the footage and sound nowadays versus older, shaky-cam, low-fi stuff. That video has a Cloverfield-quality to it. Plus bonus future sound weapon.

[Eduardo X]

Each and every one of those college students is an anarchist!

[Eduardo X]

If this is what it looks like, I hope all those cops end up in jail. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3FP3blL3mE)

[MikeSofaer]

If this is what it looks like, I hope all those cops end up in jail. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3FP3blL3mE)
That didn't look coerced to me. It looked to me like people on opposite sides, playing their parts, and being human to each other. I guess that doesn't fit with the antagonistic spirit of the thing, but sometimes people are OK with being arrested, and don't blame the cops personally, and think a photo will be pretty cool to have in 15 years.

[salwon]

She looked pretty okay with it, honestly. But it's so hard to tell.

I love outrage over YouTube videos - 25 seconds of video, with no knowledge of what came before or after. COPS = PIGS!

[Eduardo X]

She looked pretty okay with it, honestly. But it's so hard to tell.

I love outrage over YouTube videos - 25 seconds of video, with no knowledge of what came before or after. COPS = PIGS!

If it was just 1 clip, that'd be one thing, but this is just the latest in brutal crackdown on mostly peaceful protests, usually ending with police prosecuted for multiple violations. It's fucking outrageous, that the police brutalize these protesters both during the protests and BEFORE them as well. It happened in Denver, Minneapolis, and in Pittsburg.

[Mordrak]

Hostile nature of the crowd? We've seen plenty of arrest videos with people nearby upset by the arrest and it still happened without the need for basically staging a kidnapping.

[Marcus]

If it was just 1 clip, that'd be one thing, but this is just the latest in brutal crackdown on mostly peaceful protests, usually ending with police prosecuted for multiple violations. It's fucking outrageous, that the police brutalize these protesters both during the protests and BEFORE them as well. It happened in Denver, Minneapolis, and in Pittsburg.


What the hell are you even talking about. You sure are outraged.

[Brad Grenz]

I wish people would stop brutalizing the word "brutality". Before you know it the meaning will have warped to mean any interaction between a cop and a civilian.

[salwon]

What the hell are you even talking about. You sure are outraged.

Fuck tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young ***** got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

Fuck that shit, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk muthafucka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every ***** is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they **** or what
Search a ***** down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm
On any muthafucka in a blue uniform
Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me
A young ***** on a warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dyin in LA
Yo Dre, I got somethin to say

[Anti-Bunny]

Really?

I'm all for demilitarizing the police, but that was just dumb.

[WarrenM]

Why do we have to bleep nigger but not fuck or motherfucker?

[Eric P]

niggaz are sensitive, while motherfuckers will just boast to you.

[salwon]

Not the only word I bleeped.

Also, not my viewpoint.

[WarrenM]

You don't share N.W.A.'s viewpoint? I'm shocked.

[salwon]

Well, I share their viewpoint when it comes to waking up quick, at about noon, or about brain damage on the mic (and what it can manage). Not necessarily here, though.

I imagine a certain Eduardo will feel differently, however.

[Eduardo X]

What the hell are you even talking about. You sure are outraged.

ABC Camera Crew Arrested in Denver for Taking Pictures of Senators, Big Donors (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MoneyTrail/story?id=5668622)
Minneapolis police question videographers, confiscate equipment (http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=20469)
Food Not Bombs house among Saturday raids in Minneapolis (http://minnesotaindependent.com/6158/breaking-food-not-bombs-house-among-saturday-raids)
FTAA Protests: Amnesty Says Miami Police May Have Broken UN Laws (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1219-08.htm)
Miami reaches a settlement with protesters over Brutality allegations (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2007-10-04/news/ftaa-settlement-reached/)
NYC Police Spied Broadly In Lead Up to Republican National Convention. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/nyregion/25infiltrate.html) My favorite part is this: "From Albuquerque to Montreal, San Francisco to Miami, undercover New York police officers attended meetings of political groups, posing as sympathizers or fellow activists, the records show." I had friends arrested in Denver, their houses searched, with no charges filed.
Some links to cases over the Republican National Convention in Minneapolis, but also to legal cases against the City of New York for their handling of the Republican National Convention in NYC in 2004. (http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/republicannationalconvention/index.html) This included a mass arrrest of anyone within nets, which the police used to encircle groups of people, including bystanders, whom were then arrested, usually with no charges filed, or all charges dropped.
A long list of files outlining illegal Police Spying conducted in Denver and Colorado Springs against groups that show up to protests, labeling them "criminal extremists." (http://www.aclu-co.org/spyfiles/chronology.htm) This was a huge embarrassment for the Denver Police.
Pittsburgh Police Harassing Non-Violent Citizen Groups (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-cooper/from-the-g20-talks-pittsb_b_296463.html)

This is my favorite part, where at big events, protesters are now graciously granted "Protest Zones," where they are allowed to exercise their first amendment rights! But you can't use those rights outside the cages.
A protest cage in Denver. (http://blogs.westword.com/demver/2008/08/photos_from_inside_the_dnc_pro.php)
Use of "Protest Zones" from Bush's presidency. (http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/dec/15/00012/)

I can go on if you'd like.

All this stuff points to one thing: stifling dissent in the U.S. I don't care if you agree with the protesters, or if the protesters are annoying, but you can't just ignore this stuff and expect everything to be fine next time you decide you're publicly upset about an issue.

[Eric P]

what absolutely kills me is that this only applies if you're a leftist it seems

[Eduardo X]

what absolutely kills me is that this only applies if you're a leftist it seems

Court upholds Mass. abortion protest zone (http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/court-1264686-law-abortion.html)

[Eric P]

happy to be proven wrong

[Eduardo X]

happy to be proven wrong

I'm not happy about it.

I take interest in the cases of leftist, as I've been in those situations exclusively. I've been detained for no reason, and been teargassed (along with my poor mom) as were were protesting against the inevitable war in Iraq in 2003. I'm not too interested in protests as a form of social change, but I think they're an important part of our first amendment.