Dennis Miller fills in on Shawn Hannity's radio show.

[Tyjenks]

Hannity might as well be Limbaugh's little brother as far as I am concerned and I care nothing for either show. They pretty much simply preach to the converted. However, as I was scanning the channels this afternoon I hear Dennis Miller filling in. I thought I had heard Miller had signed on with Fox News several weeks ago.

He actually sounds good. I would not mind a 2 or 3 hour Dennis Miller, smart-ass show covering politics/media/culture, whatever. He seems to lean to the right, but will make fun of anyone who engages in stupid shit.

[Midnight Son]

Miller has converted to the dark side. Too bad.

[Tyjenks]

Miller has converted to the dark side. Too bad.

You mean because he is not screaming about how Republicans are demons which we (including me) have come to expect from every stand-up comic?

[Midnight Son]

The fact that they are demons is self-evident. We don't need no steenking comedians to tell us that! :lol:

[Anders Hallin]

While he offered some cheap laughs, I found him exceedingly trite when I saw him on Leno.

[Tyjenks]

While he offered some cheap laughs, I found him exceedingly trite when I saw him on Leno.

Triteness is kinda his schtick. He alludes to people and makes references to things in his routines that occasionally only 5 people understand. His observations on all facets of American life have been interesting, entertaining and, most importantly, relevant for many, many years. You cannot say that for many people, much less comedians.

[JeffL]

While he offered some cheap laughs, I found him exceedingly trite when I saw him on Leno.

People usually don't like comediens who make fun of their political beliefs. ;) <===== (note the wink. :) )

[Midnight Son]

That man has NEVER hugged a tree! *snif* :wink:

[Anders Hallin]

If he had any sort of depth to his observations, I wouldn't have complained. About that.

[Tyjenks]

If he had any sort of depth to his observations, I wouldn't have complained. About that.

You want depth from Leno? Looks like you had impossible expectaions going in. :wink:

[Jason McCullough]

While he offered some cheap laughs, I found him exceedingly trite when I saw him on Leno.

Triteness is kinda his schtick. He alludes to people and makes references to things in his routines that occasionally only 5 people understand. His observations on all facets of American life have been interesting, entertaining and, most importantly, relevant for many, many years. You cannot say that for many people, much less comedians.

Randomally sticking Complicated Stuff into your act doesn't it funny or interesting. Miller's been shitty for a few years now.

[Tyjenks]

Randomally sticking Complicated Stuff into your act doesn't it funny or interesting. Miller's been shitty for a few years now.

Again, what Lackey said.


People usually don't like comediens who make fun of their political beliefs.

[Jason McCullough]

Don't give me that shit, I stopped liking him before he became a Republican shill. I think PJ O'Rourke is funny, for chrissakes.

[Anders Hallin]

If he had any sort of depth to his observations, I wouldn't have complained. About that.

You want depth from Leno? Looks like you had impossible expectaions going in. :wink:
Nah, but if someone makes fun of politics, it'd be nice if there was some depth to it. Especially since Dennis Miller seems to be rather famous. Actually, I don't remember if I found him amusing at all.. Maybe a joke or two.

[Tyjenks]

Don't give me that shit, I stopped liking him before he became a Republican shill. I think PJ O'Rourke is funny, for chrissakes.

I am listening now and he has been pretty funny for the last hour and a half while laying out his core beliefs and telling people a little reasoning behind them, so it must be a matter of taste. I did not mean to get you riled.

Calling him a shill because he has a job with a conservatively slanted News station (or for whatever reason you are branding him) is a stretch, IMO.

[Shawn Metcalf]

I was amazed to see, in Miller's new cable special a couple of months back, a long segment on Libya and Khadaffy (sp). It just went on and on. His brief introduction to the sketch in no way made up for the irrelevance of what sounded like 20 year old material.

I'm curious how his new conservative schitck goes over. He got big back during the Reagan administration, and from then on all through the Clinton years his bit involved taking pot shots at whoever's in power. Not that that's unusual for a comedian, but now he actually supports someone in office? How does that work? More important, is it teh funnay?

[Jeff Green]

I can't stand Dennis Miller.

His political arguments piss me off, but that's not what bothers me most. I don't agree with everything Bill Maher says, but I find Maher a lot more cogent and thoughtful and, most important, funny. Though I know many folks hate him more than Miller.

Miller has bugged the shit out of me for years because he comes across as so smug and self-satisfied. It's like he doesn't need an audience, because he already knows he's so damn funny and brilliant already. Which, as others have said, isn't really supported by the material--since he recycles it endlessly and substitutes and/or mistakes obscurity for intellectual thinking.

He seems like a smart guy---but he strikes me as a big poseur.

[Tyjenks]

Wow....wasn't expecting the he-man Miller haters club to be so strong here. I agree with many points regarding the way he comes across. I do think some of it ihas simply become part of his act. Basically, I don't care. He makes me laugh.

I miss Politically Incorrect and Maher certainly got a raw deal, but I think he comes across just as holier-than-thou while regaling us with his absolutes as to what is right and wrong in this country. He still makes me laugh.

I think Miller is going to be on Maher's show tonight or whenever it airs next, BTW.

[Jason McCullough]

That's exactly it: Maher isn't that funny in kind of the same way Miller isn't.

[Jeff Green]

I actually used to hate Maher even more. And, yeah, in the same way that I hate Miller. But he's won me over in the last year or so--basically since Politically Correct got yanked, I guess. And I really dug his most recent HBO special--even if I didn't agree with everything he said.

I think if Miller just came off a little less smug I'd like him a whole lot more. He's definitely made me laugh over the years--it's just his delivery that annoys me.

[Lizard_King]

Whatever keeps Miller out of Monday Night Football is ok with me. Especially since it would be difficult for him to be more smug and unamusing than Hannity, or any other big time talking head.

I saw Maher live when he showed up at my university a few years back. He was much, much funnier when there was no network sitting on his back. I still think he is full of shit most of the time, but on the whole pretty amusing.

[Midnight Son]

Alright, peeps, tonight at 11:05 on HBO it's Real Time with Bill Maher. Guests are Bay Buchanan; comic Dennis Miller; comic Larry Miller. It appears that Maher and L Miller are evenly matched against Pat's sista and D Miller. Watch tonight and discuss tomorrow. (Back to school and time for homework!)

[Machfive]

Larry Miller owns. I'm gonna keep my neck outta this Dennis Miller opining.

[JeffL]

I"ve been put off by Miller's style in the past, but I listened to him on the drive home. He was actually a great listen. Surely hard to pigeon-hole. Yeah, he's basically a conservative - he took his shots at Ed Asner, and made other conservative statements. And he had a couple of good Hillary jabs. But he probably surprised a lot of the conservative listeners. For example, when someone asked him why everyone in Hollywood was so liberal, he said it for a lot of them it was because they were basically very good hearted and truly wanted to help people and felt that a lot of liberal philosophies were the way to do it - he said he thought many of them were on the wrong page, but he said it came from a good place. Someone asked him if he was blacklisted for his views, and he said that while work in Hollywood was already so hard to get that telling a director you really disagreed with his political beliefs didn't help, he also said that he is friends with a number of people with whom he has strong disagreements, such as Rob Reiner and Bill Maher. And he said one of Maher's best friends is Ann Coulter, so trying to put everyone in a box was stupid.

Someone asked him about gay marriages - his response was that he didn't see why if two men wanted to get married they should have to call him up and get his permission - why in the hell should he have any say in what they wanted to do?

I"m sure he really threw a lot of the listeners for a loop. At the same time he wasn't shy about ravaging Davis, in a pretty intelligent manner. He commented that one problem was that they had so many giveaway programs for every special interest group that they forgot that what they needed to do was first do what was best for the state, which wasn't neccessarily the best for every single group that wanted some special handout. (although he was much more articulate than that. :) )

I liked it. I'm so sick of people pickin a side and then looking through their filters such that everything "the other guys" do is evil and wrong - automatically, just because they are on the other side - that it was fun to hear someone who clearly didn't feel obligated to follow the straight mantra of one side or the other.

[Machfive]

So he's basically a libertarian. *chuckles*

[bmulligan]

Miller was great on Monday Night Football. I loved the tension between him an Al Michaels. You could almost see the look on Al's face after a Miller-izim, and you knew he couldn't believe he was in the same booth with that dope smoking loon! He really forced Michaels to step up and volley once in a while. MNF sucks now with John"POW"Madden. The verbal blowjobs and gratuitous accolades Michaels offers Madden week after week is tiresome.

At least Miller can form a complete sentence. All Maher does is emote his opinions and berate his (conservative)guests while they're held captive during his show.

[Machfive]

Am I the ONLY one in the world, that, during Millers MNF stint, watched it SIMPLY to see the look on the dunder-heads when he went off on a rant about the Aegean straits or quantum physics?

[Tyjenks]

I liked it. I'm so sick of people pickin a side and then looking through their filters such that everything "the other guys" do is evil and wrong - automatically, just because they are on the other side - that it was fun to hear someone who clearly didn't feel obligated to follow the straight mantra of one side or the other.

Hooray! Someone actually listened and then formed a fresh opinion of him. And yes, your point about picking sides is exactly why I am on a constant quest to find TV and radio hosts that have their own ideas and do not simply echo one platform or the other. There are precious few.

I still think Bill O'Reilly gives all sides an equal grilling while obviously skewing conservative and he can be a tremendous prick. His radio show is a bit more laid back and his prickishness softens. :wink: Very dry witted, bitingly sarcastic, and often times funny.

Not only is Hannity smug and a Limbaugh acolyte, but he is simply not bright or quick-witted enough at times to hold up his side of an arguement.

Glenn Beck leans right (as they all do), but he has some damn funny bits. He likes to preach his beliefs more than interact with callers and some days that grows incredibly tiresome.

Neal Boortz seems to have many Libertarian beliefs, but thinks most Democrats worship some she-devil.

There is a local guy that is primarily sports, but will talk about any subject and is now being syndicated throughout the Southeast, Paul Finebaum. If in the area, he is fairly decent and tries not to espouse any beliefs. He just talks with his callers all day.

I thought Miller was refreshing to hear. He did not really sound like he wanted to do that full time as I can imagine that talking for 3 hours straight 5-days a week can be a real grind. I will deffinitely listen when he fills in again, though.

[Midnight Son]

I really enjoyed Maher's show last night. The Arnold bit in the beginning had me rollin' "Ze problem is the politicians.... and the jews!"

Also liked the part about white folks moving to the suburbs to escape blacks.... and due to MTV, their KIDS are now blacks! Yo yo, mah peeps!

[JeffL]

Don't give me that shit, I stopped liking him before he became a Republican shill. I think PJ O'Rourke is funny, for chrissakes.

Jason, are all the comedians who are liberals "Democratic Shills?" Geez - a comedian has non-liberal beliefs and he's a "shill?" As if no one could actually think differently and be legitimate?

You should have listened to him; had you actually been able to listen with an open mind, I think you would have enjoyed it. What surprised me is that I think he made his points, both "liberal" and "conservative" (God help us if we can't use f'ing labels to make things nice and simple for our pea sized brains) very well, in a way that many commenators on both sides fail to do. Even on the points where I have a different opinion, I understood where he was coming from - most talking heads these days basically say "this is what is right, and only idiots disagree".

[Jason McCullough]

Jeff, I think doing fundraisers for Bush qualifies him as a Republican shill.

He's just another libertarian, it's not like he has some shocking new collection of opinions here.

[JeffL]

[quote="Jason McCullough"]Jeff, I think doing fundraisers for Bush qualifies him as a Republican shill.
[quote]

Ah. Ok, then you also believe about 90% of Hollywood are Democratic Shills.

So anyone who does anything for something they believe in is a Shill.

[Jason McCullough]

90% of Hollywood didn't host fundraisers for Clinton. But the ones that did, yes.

Edit: Then again, shill doesn't (http://www.onelook.com/?w=shill&ls=a) actually mean "really in the tank for someone" like I thought it did (is this the most common usage now?), so maybe not.

[bmulligan]

From August, 1999:

Friday August 11 8:45 PM ET
Calendar: Upcoming Arts, Culture & ShowBiz Events (Aug.)

HOLLYWOOD (Reuters) - The inclusion of calendar items does not necessarily mean that the Reuters/Variety Entertainment Report will file a story based on the event.

Friday, Aug. 11

LOS ANGELES - Politics in Film Festival, at Egyptian Theatre, coinciding with the Democratic National Convention in Los Angeles (through Aug. 30).

Saturday, Aug. 12

+ LOS ANGELES - Hollywood farewell tribute PRESIDENT CLINTON, a gala concert benefitting the Senate campaign of HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON. Performers to include CHER, DIANA ROSS, TONI BRAXTON, MICHAEL BOLTON, MELISSA ETHERIDGE, PAUL ANKA and PATTI LABELLE. Celebrity tributes to be delivered by GREGORY PECK, WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ANJELICA HUSTON, JACK LEMMON, RED BUTTONS, SHIRLEY MACLAINE, TED DANSON, MARY STEENBURGEN and GOLDIE HAWN. At Ken Roberts Estate in Brentwood.

Sunday, Aug. 13

+ MALIBU, Calif. - BARBRA STREISAND hosts fund-raising brunch for President Clinton presidential library in Little Rock, Ark.

Monday, Aug. 14

+ SANTA MONICA, Calif. - Comedian CHEVY CHASE hosts Democratic Party reception, with performers to include MELISSA ETHERIDGE and THE GOO GOO DOLLS. At the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences.

+ LOS ANGELES - Writer-producer NORMAN LEAR to open Democracy Row exposition of non-partisan groups working to improve information about political candidates and campaigns. At West Hall of the Los Angeles Convention Center.

Wednesday, Aug 16.

+ LOS ANGELES - The Creative Coalition hosts panel discussion on entertainment and youth violence, with participants to include LES MOONVES, WES CRAVEN, BARRY LEVINSON, MONTEL WILLIAMS and SYDNEY POLLACK. Moderated by CARL BERNSTEIN. At Staples Center during Democratic convention.

Thursday, Aug. 17

LOS ANGELES - Star-studded fundraising concert for Democratic Party, with headline acts to include singer BARBRA STREISAND. At Shrine Auditorium.


At a campaign rally in New Jersey on Sunday, actress Whoopi Goldberg introduced the President. While she's on the road for the campaign, her friends in Hollywood have been writing some large checks. When the Democratic National Committee last week released a donor list they initially withheld, the Washington Times checked to see who was among those making the $10.1 million in donations that arrived in early October. Among the names:

TV producer Norman Lear: $80,000
Movie director Robert Zemeckis: $50,000
Actor Robin Williams and wife Marsha: $30,000
Eagles singer Don Henley: $30,000
Actor Danny DeVito: $5,000
Movie Director Rob Reiner: $5,000
Former 20th Century Fox owner Marvin Davis: $5,000

Yeah, the Democrats fight for the hardworking, poor, middleclass, working stiffs............RIGHT! (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/aug2000/dnc-a17.shtml)

[bmulligan]

I forgot this tidbit from Mr. Hollywood himself, Steven Speilberg

from 1994-1999

$481,023 to the Democratic National Committee (DNC),
$ 27,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee,
$ 16,000 to 11 Democratic Senators (including $4,000 to the top recipient, Senator Boxer),
$ 10,000 to Democratic campaigns for the House of Representatives,
$ 12,350 to various other Democratic campaigns, and
$ 6,000 to the Hollywood Women's Political Committee.


among others (http://rpc.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1999/el031899.htm)

[Anders Hallin]

I didn't know donating was the same as fund-raising?

[Midnight Son]

So, there are some folks who contribute to the Democrats, wow! So it's not illegal??

[JeffL]

So, there are some folks who contribute to the Democrats, wow! So it's not illegal??

No, we're getting a little off-track. Jason called Dennis Miller a Shill for the Republicans, which I assume is a partisan attack on someone in entertainment who dares to have a non-liberal view - the response was that any entertainer who partipates in a fund-raiser is a shill. It doesn't take a lot of looking around to see a plethora of Hollywood participating in fund raisers for Democrats, thus making them "Shills" under this definition.

A Shill is a derogatory term - I don't think it's appropriate for people who participate in politics for either side. And frankly it just seems like another frikken knee-jerk partisan attack. I've been up all night, so I'm more thin skinned than normal, but it really frustrates and irritates me the way some people just can't seem to think without applying some kind of partisan filter to their view.

[XPav]

The "shill" tag happens many places. Any journalist that writes an article about Microsoft in a postive light gets called a shill. Hell, anyone that writes for ZDNet is a shill. Pretty soon you find that because someone gets paid money by someone, they're supposed to subsume their self and just regurgitate what the advertising says.

If I was a journalist, I'd get pissed off.

[Jason McCullough]

Let's try this again:

Dennis Miller has crossed the boundary between amateurs and professionals in politics, and that's why his "lone conservative in Hollywood" act is so grating now. Kind of like the difference between Joe Schome complaining about a stalker and a famous actor compalining about one; oh, cry me a river.

He's not a shill (and I can't imagine who'd be one anymore; the definition requires knowing that you're wrong), but I find it annoying that everyone assumes I thought he was funny until - oh no! - I found out he was a Republican! What kind of hack do you take me for? Christ.

[JeffL]

Let's try this again:

Dennis Miller has crossed the boundary between amateurs and professionals in politics, and that's why his "lone conservative in Hollywood" act is so grating now. Kind of like the difference between Joe Schome complaining about a stalker and a famous actor compalining about one; oh, cry me a river.

He's not a shill (and I can't imagine who'd be one anymore; the definition requires knowing that you're wrong), but I find it annoying that everyone assumes I thought he was funny until - oh no! - I found out he was a Republican! What kind of hack do you take me for? Christ.

Well, first, I don't think he's the one claiming to be the lone conservative in Hollywood. On the radio show he said several times that a. He thought labels were pretty sloppy and useless, b. there are more conservatives in Hollywood than people think, c. -- I forget C, but it was a REALLY good point, and one that you would NEVER be able to argue. LOL! ;)

As to why the assumption - I can't remember a thread where you didn't automatically attack anyone who wasn't a Democrat or liberal and didn't try to defend anyone who was a liberal or Democrat from attack. Maybe they're there, but I don't recall any (and I have no Koontzian anal-rententive desire to set up a database or spreadsheet to sort every thread.) Nor can I ever remember you ever praising or even giving credit to anyone in politics who is Republican or "conservative". When you have a track record like this, it's pretty easy to extrapolate when your attack on a comedian is based on his political views. And attacking someone in Hollywood for being active in a political fundraiser - well, again, I've never heard of you having any problems with the political activist activities of the other 90% of Hollywood.

(BTW - I couldn't stand Miller on Monday Night Football, but not because he's not a liberal. And I think Streisand has an incredible voice for a pop singer but is dumb as a box of rocks. And I think one of the funniest lines in the history of the Academy Awards was when Letterman said "Next up is Susan Sarandon and Tim Matheson - I don't know what they're gonna say, but you can bet they're pissed about something!" Thus my total political commentary on entertainers. ;) )

[Jason McCullough]

This is a meta-argument now, so screw it. :D

[Midnight Son]

What's this idea that entertainers shouldn't have political views, eh? I like Maher more than Miller but I can laugh at both of 'em.

[JeffL]

This is a meta-argument now, so screw it. :D

LOL! OK - I agree, let's find something meatier to argue about. ;)

[Brian Koontz]

What's this idea that entertainers shouldn't have political views, eh? I like Maher more than Miller but I can laugh at both of 'em.

Entertainers are experts on entertaining, not on politics. That entertainers compete with political analysts on political "analysis" is an embarrassment.

Entertainers are abusing their power over the public to spout their inanity.

Viggo Mortensen: Save the Whales!

Audience: What did he say? Oh, who cares... its Viggo Mortensen! Yay Viggo!

A few days later...

Audience: Save the Whales? Who said?... I don't remember, but I remember being happy in conjunction with it! Save the Whales!!

A few days later...

US Congress: "What the fuck? All these emails from outraged citizens about Saving the Whales? Damn... I guess we'll have to bring up the issue in the next session..."

Meanwhile, people who do lots of research on the issue and come to a conclusion, whatever it might be, are ignored...

Viggo: Whales are cute! They are gentle and peaceful! They should be saved!

Gotta love humans.

[Midnight Son]

Save the Whales. Hmm, why not? Do we need whale-oil for our oil lamps? Can't you get enough blubber at the local mall? (Blechhh!! Fat chicks showing their pierced bellies --- BARF!) There's no doubt that the power of celebrity can be used to influence people but it's not like they are trying to get people to sacrifice infants to Satan or something.

[JeffL]

Save the Whales. Hmm, why not? Do we need whale-oil for our oil lamps? Can't you get enough blubber at the local mall? (Blechhh!! Fat chicks showing their pierced bellies --- BARF!) There's no doubt that the power of celebrity can be used to influence people but it's not like they are trying to get people to sacrifice infants to Satan or something.

Since this is a Dennis Miller thread, I'll quote something he said on the radio that day - some caller called in and was ranting and raving about celebrities making political statements and why did they think people cared what they thought. Miller's response was "because you DO care." The caller said Bull! We do NOT care what they have to say! Miller said "Then why in the hell did you take an hour of your life to stay on hold to call here and talk about what celebrities are saying?" ;)

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Entertainers are experts on entertaining, not on politics. That entertainers compete with political analysts on political "analysis" is an embarrassment.

Entertainers are abusing their power over the public to spout their inanity.

Certainly not all entertainers are experts on politics, but that doesn't mean that some aren't. Hell, Ann Coulter makes stuff up but her political opinions are taken seriously.

Your profession has no bearing on whether or not you are able to make political analysis. The idea of a "professional pundit" or "political analyst" is absurd (does Al Sharpton even have a job? When's the last time Pat Buchanan did anything real?) and if you can argue the case coherently and logically, great. Yes, an insider may have some specialized knowledge, but if I have to choose between Cheney and Sting on the rain forest, or Larry Flynt and John Ashcroft on the First Amendment, I don't think I'd go much wrong picking the non-politico. I do make a distinction between political opinions and policy making, though, since the latter is much more complicated.

People can have valid opinions about more than one thing in their lives. You wouldn't suggest that forum posters should stay out political analysis, would you?

Yes, celebrity opinion is generally overvalued by the media, mostly because they are faces the mass audience recognizes. But if Bono uses his celebrity to make the world a better place (which he almost certainly does) I'm not going to tell him to stick to singing. Or tell Heston to stop talking about guns just because Moses didn't pack heat.

Troy

[Brian Koontz]

Celebrities are mostly clueless about the positions they support... they support them because their friends (other celebrities) do and they want to appear deep and caring, and sometimes because they ARE caring but its irrelevant since there is no substance behind their support.

I'm not going to listen to some twit that I know only because I saw him pretend to be someone else on TV tell me that (for example) we should pull out of Iraq because people are dying and that's bad. And when I give him a blank, bored stare he points to his face in outrage as if his familiarity is proof of his value.

When celebrities truly care about the issues they support they do one of two things...

Put in the research time and become knowledgeable about the subject AND understand how the subject affects the larger reality.

And/or...

Direct people to places they can go or books they can buy, etc. that are effective teaching tools about the issue.

I'd rather a celebrity pimp the hell out of some book or website that they truly thought was highly valuable than pretend they have all the answers because they entertain you effectively. The best situation is for them to become knowledgeable but hey, I'm realistic.

[Tyjenks]

Celebrities are mostly clueless about the positions they support... they support them because their friends (other celebrities) do....

Yeah, so what? ANd you have come to this conclusion after years of analysis of celebrity beliefs, motives, rallies, et.al.?

I would say the populace is mostly clueless and believe what their friends, parents, whoever is closest to them believe. Some percentage know what they are talking about and actually research their opinions. I would wager the same percentage of celebrities are well- vs. ill-informed.

I did not read the rest of your post because this first part was nutty enough for my liking.