For the Republic! (Republican Spain HoI3 AAR) [Archive]

CSL

08-10-2009, 09:11 PM

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9584/001zcs.jpg

August 1936 - the Spanish Civil War has begun.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2370/002efg.jpg
Spain at the start of the Civil War

With the civil war started I estimate that over half the army has defected to the Nationalists, including the strong garrisons of Valencia and Barcelona - both cities seem to be shortly under the control of the Nationalists. Elsewhere the north of the country is basically lost to me and my only real point of strength is around Madrid where the garrison has remained loyal and two new brigades of infantry have been raised to defend the city. Forces north of Madrid are now falling back on that city where I will hope to hold a defensive line, but we should have time to stabilize the front as all brigades mobilize.

Elsewhere there is some good news - it seems all of the airforce has sided with the government, however most of the navy besides two light cruisers and several transport vessels have defected to the Nationalists. They'll make an attempt at removing a division that has remained loyal to the central government in Morocco before being scuttled as we will almost certainly lack a port with the loss of Valencia and Barcelona.

Finally I've invited several left-wing radicals into the government and have instituted a forced draft and economic mobilization to get the country prepared for war - though unfortunately it is fairly certain we will not be able to sustain our economy in the long run.

CSL

08-10-2009, 10:14 PM

The Civil War - Part I

Shortly after the Civil War started we got word that the British had decided to intervene and in response we got ahold of three new infantry brigades at Madrid - giving us a total of five infantry brigades and a reserve light armoured brigade around the capital. For now we'll use this to form a protective cordon around the city, mostly to the north but also moving a single brigade west to hold off what I assume is two reserve brigades coming from the Portuguese border.

The next day we also got word of French intervention, in the form of three more infantry brigade which I'll use to reinforce my northern border and form three two brigade divisions. A further seven reserve brigades are also moving south from Burgos and the other Nationalist owned areas north of Madrid. These will be moved behind my lines and form a provisional reserve.

On 16th of August we suffered our first overwhelming loss as our naval convoy en route to North Africa was attacked and then utterly destroyed by the Nationalists. With no means of rescuing the 6,000 men still in Morocco we now look to take control of the colony and resist all attempts by the Nationalists to use the area as a base.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6798/003ivs.jpg
August 20th 1936

By the 20th the situation throughout Spain is now extremely dangerous. Our reserve forces streaming south from Burgos have been utterly destroyed and strong Nationalist forces are now closing in on Madrid, but by now forces are digging in around the city - roughly five divisions worth.

Throughout the rest of the country though the situation is now almost hopeless as the Nationalists seem to have fully mobilized brigades attacking my reserve forces that have barely managed to reinforce at all. So be it - I shall hold around the capital. We can only hope that our production of militia divisions will be effective before we get overrun.

However on the whole I find my position could be much worse and we will, on the whole begin campaign of active defense - starting with attacks on their leading divisions moving towards Madrid.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5330/004jhd.jpg
August 26th 1936

Within a week I feel much better about my positions. With our forces still active in the northwest, near Barcelona, and in the far south the Nationalists have had to divide their attention, thus giving me time to strengthen my lines and push outwards. I'm now planning an offensive to move my lines towards the Portuguese border. That should hopefully give me space in front of Madrid. I also hope to have enough forces coming around Barcelona to retake that city. If I can I'll be able to permanently divide the Nationalists and give myself a much better chance of ultimately winning this war.

Lakedaimon

08-10-2009, 10:15 PM

Jason McCullough

08-10-2009, 10:19 PM

Am I the only person who can't for the life of me understand why you'd use the NATO unit icons outside the military?

Not that I'm complaining! On with the butcherin'!

Sarkus

08-10-2009, 10:22 PM

pardon my total ignorance of this game (and its predecessors) but can you give any insight as to just what is going on on that map?

edit: ok now with the second post its a bit more clear, shoulda waited 2 minutes heh

To make it clear, the light areas are under Republican (CSL) control and the darker areas are under Nationalist control. The units are colored in the same fashion. Areas where you see a striped coloring indicate an area originally owned by one side that is now owned by the other. As all the striped areas are predominantly dark, that means they are all now controlled by the Nationalists.

CSL

08-10-2009, 10:24 PM

pardon my total ignorance of this game (and its predecessors) but can you give any insight as to just what is going on on that map?

edit: ok now with the second post its a bit more clear, shoulda waited 2 minutes heh

I control the yellow territory. The Nationalists control the brown.

Movement is attack in this game so green arrows are movement arrows. Arrows with numerical values are attack moves. If that arrow is green then I am winning a battle, if it is yellow it is basically a stalemate at that point, and if it is red then I am losing.

For the Nato counters....

x = brigade
xx = division
xxx = corps headquarters
xxxx = army headquarters
xxxxx = army group headquarters
xxxxxx = national headquarters

As of right now I have only a few divisions mobilized. Most of them are around Madrid, however I have several reserve divisions collecting around Barcelona to retake that city. Isolated brigades are still clinging to resistance in Galicia in the northwest.

Sarkus

08-10-2009, 10:24 PM

Am I the only person who can't for the life of me understand why you'd use the NATO unit icons outside the military?

Not that I'm complaining! On with the butcherin'!

A lot of people are used to them from wargaming conventional use.

Also, the sprites in HOI3 have the disadvantage of telling you almost nothing about what they represent other than unit type unless you mouse over or click on them. The counters, on the other hand, show units via a stacking graphic you can't see except zoomed in further, as well as unit type and some indication of strength.

CSL

08-10-2009, 11:18 PM

The Civil War - Part II

On August 26th we receive our first new infantry brigade from production. It's been posted to Tarragona where we hope it can be used to effectively attack the Nationalists at Barcelona. However in bad news the northwestern front has now been decimated besides a sole two-brigade mountain division which is holed up around the town of Piedras Blancas, halfway between Oviedo and La Coruna. The two brigades will hold until they are decimated, to give our southern forces as much time as possible to strengthen their lines.

Those are at the moment being pushed forward as further attacks from the Madrid line are being made against Nationalist forces near Salmoral and Guadalajara. Following up these attacks my forces manage to invest a Nationalist brigade which had begun probing around the south of my Madrid lines, after I managed to fix it by a frontal attack starting on the 27th.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2959/005hsa.jpg
Lister's 1/1a Division fixes a Nationalist brigade around Guadiana

Perhaps more importantly my corps around Barcelona now also attacks, moving against the Nationalists who lightly control that city. However with reports that the Nationalists have two divisions further east of the city our chances of taking and then holding the region now appear slim. Despite this our attacks on the city proceed apace.

With the start of September the situation throughout Spain is still in flux. In the north my mountain troops under Lukacz are fighting for their lives around Piedras Blancas and I estimate that they will at most last until the second week of the month before they are forced to surrender. Around Madrid my front is now almost totally stabilized and indeed we are pushing forwards towards Burgos which is currently the Nationalist capital. I have roughly three divisions worth of troops available to make that advance and it seems I have a distinct advantage over the fascists who oppose me with mere brigades.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8151/006cky.jpg
Madrid front September 1st 1936

Our attacks thereafter succeed beyond my wildest expectations. Within a week Republican forces are nearing the Duoro river and elements of the forces that surrounded and destroyed the one Nationalist brigade have closed in on the Portuguese border. Furthermore a division has taken Salamanca and we are now in the position to encircle a further four or more enemy brigades.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3610/007xgh.jpg
Republican forces advance on Salamanca and now have two Nationalist divisions in the position to be cut off.

While the Nationalists are being beaten back to the Duoro they are still attempting to destroy my mountain troops in the far north of the country on September 6th - though all hope is now lost for those men they've diverted at least two, possibly three divisions away from the critical front. Furthermore the enemy has largely been inactive in the south, for while they are taking up territory it is barely effecting me and indeed their forces have merely garrisoned the area around Valencia instead of attempting to cut my divisions around Barcelona off from the Madrid front. Wide gaps will remain in my lines for the time being.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1967/008klz.jpg
The Barcelona Front

Around Barcelona itself the situation is not nearly as dire as I had once thought. The brigade that had chased some of my forces south from around Zaragoza have now stopped around the Ebro where I've attempted to sustain my own defensive line at Tarragona. What forces are left will move to attack and defeat the two enemy divisions that are left in my rear. Once that is done I'll extend the line north along the Ebro and attempt to link with the Madrid front in the future. My only current potential reinforcements are due to arrive in the first two weeks of October when two militia divisions become available.

ydejin

08-10-2009, 11:55 PM

CSL

08-11-2009, 12:10 AM

Looking forward to seeing how this goes! I played Nationalist Spain from 1938 as my first "complete" game (where complete means going until the Republicans were beaten). I was planning to switch around and play as Republican Spain from 1938, but when I looked over the Republican's situation in 1938 I concluded it was untenable. I guess I should have started in 1936 but I didn't know how the Civil War got triggered or what my options would be once it started.

I believe it starts at random after a set point and it appears as though its entirely randomized whether or not any particular divisions stay loyal to you or not - though it may be that you will get more on your side if you shy away from putting them in Nationalist zones - ie. Burgos, Seville.

rezaf

08-11-2009, 12:10 AM

ydejin

08-11-2009, 12:17 AM

The counters, on the other hand, show units via a stacking graphic you can't see except zoomed in further, as well as unit type and some indication of strength.

I really wish the stacking graphic would show up a bit further zoomed out. It's a very useful indicator and it only seems to be present when I'm zoomed almost to max.

CSL

08-11-2009, 01:06 AM

I really wish the stacking graphic would show up a bit further zoomed out. It's a very useful indicator and it only seems to be present when I'm zoomed almost to max.

There wouldn't be a problem at all had they simply left in the perfectly good number of divisions in a province display.

Calistas

08-11-2009, 02:35 AM

MikeJ

08-11-2009, 05:55 AM

Great to see an interesting AAR. Thanks, I blawged it. But damn though, no city names on the map, no names on units until you get close, no region names.. this is meant to be a strategy game? Perhaps mods will fix it...

The province names do show up on the map, but there is a delay. Also, the province borders seem all screwed up. I don't know if that's due to the image compression or some problem with CSL's install.

InfiniteJest

08-11-2009, 07:24 AM

The province names do show up on the map, but there is a delay. Also, the province borders seem all screwed up. I don't know if that's due to the image compression or some problem with CSL's install.

In my Steam install the province borders look identical, but judging from screenshots elsewhere maybe there is a problem. I'm assuming the lines shouldn't be dashed?

It really is a pity the engine doesn't label major features (countries, mountain ranges, rivers, oceans) when you zoom out a bit. I love maps. HOI3, like EU3, doesn't really deliver the same mappiness as the games on the earlier engine did.

MikeJ

08-11-2009, 10:22 AM

In my Steam install the province borders look identical, but judging from screenshots elsewhere maybe there is a problem. I'm assuming the lines shouldn't be dashed?

Yeah, when I play they are solid. Though the reviewer who posted on their forum mentioned that the province lines were messed up on his install (perhaps due to installing over an earlier version?). I don't know why your steam install would be messed up though.

Grifman

08-11-2009, 05:08 PM

Before you win the Spanish Civil War, shouldn't win the American one first?

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=50355

:)

CSL

08-11-2009, 08:54 PM

Before you win the Spanish Civil War, shouldn't win the American one first?

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=50355

:)

If I had the files still I would. But I had to reformat one morning due to a fairly pesky virus and didn't back them up. Plus if I remember correctly that game ended with me crushing an amphibious landing force in the Carolinas and getting the Europeans to involve themselves - or at least thats where it was heading.

That and I read the thread when it got bumped.

Malcolm Tucker

08-11-2009, 09:13 PM

This is making me want to read Homage to Catalonia again.

Hearts of Iron always sounds so awesome when people are talking / making AARs about it, but it doesn't look fun to play at all. Maybe I should play it in a window with a war movie running next to it, just to spice things up a little.

ydejin

08-11-2009, 10:34 PM

Hearts of Iron always sounds so awesome when people are talking / making AARs about it, but it doesn't look fun to play at all. Maybe I should play it in a window with a war movie running next to it, just to spice things up a little.

I dunno, playing a war movie could have the opposite effect. I started going through "Band of Brothers" again, when HoI3 came out. I just finished watching the Bastogne episode (that's the one focusing on the medic). After watching it I suddenly don't have any desire to play games involving destruction and war, even at HoI3's level of abstraction. Not to worry, I'm sure this moment will pass, but boy that was a sad episode and my current desire to reproduce WW2 has gone to zero.

CSL

08-11-2009, 11:14 PM

Man, I know it's beating a dead horse, but I just can't get over how butt ugly this new engine of Paradox is.
CSL, maybe you could edit the images yourself to include some basic level of information, like operational objectives or long term movement targets of units and stuff?
To me this looks like a gobbled mess of unpersonal information - heck, there's not even region names. Most screenies (except those zoomed so far out that you can see the outlines of Spain) you could tell me you were fighting Japan as China or Brasil as Argentinia and it'd have no reason to contest your claim.
That's just sad.

Okay, here are some better ones....

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/511/009ycz.jpg

First the potential encirclement along the Portuguese border which I spoke of in my last post. As you can see I have three divisions (the counters that are xx and have a 1-2 attack-defense value) and two brigades (x, 0-1) along the front. The enemy has two divisions that are exposed with their flanks either completely open, or broken through. With my one central brigade I can fix the northern division and when Lister's division (in the far south) arrives it can fix the southern division giving my other forces the time needed to surround the enemy.

Further north we have this situation with my other corps.....

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6740/010fyv.jpg

They are covering Madrid, to the south which is urban terrain and has the airbase. They are also tasked with taking Burgos - the Nationalists capital right now. I've got four divisions and right now my basic plan is to pivet like a door opening and swinging to the northwest with the pivot being at Arevalo (where the 1-1 armoured division is). This will make it so that the 10a Division under Castello will march the longest route along the Duoro to take Burgos and the 2a and 5a divisions will march alongside the interior of that march with the aim of reaching a line Burgos-Palencia-Valladolid (where the Nationalist cavalry division is).

That is the gist of the Madrid front - so basically I want to effect an encirclement along the Portuguese border while also pushing forward from near Madrid to take Burgos and prepare a line along the Duoro in the north. In the end I'll both shorten my lines (in the west), take the capital, AND get a better defensive position along a major river.

Furthermore I don't think the new engine is ugly at all (at least not for HoI3), I actually quite like it besides the hideous province border papering effect and the default national colour blandness.

Sarkus

08-11-2009, 11:43 PM

Yeah, the map isn't really that bad. They went for a paper map like subdued color style that can be confusing at times and like CSL points out, the province borders are really odd in the way they are drawn. In the early screenshots CSL is using the "political" map mode, where everything is tinted the color of your side. So, as Republican Spain is a light tan, that's what you see. The most recent screenshots are using the "terrain" map mode and it looks a lot better. It's just harder to see who controls what as you have to follow the crappy red lines.

CSL

08-12-2009, 12:09 AM

The Civil War - Part III
This one goes out to Tom Chick!!!

So if you've read my last post you know what is going on in Spain - as I think I put it very clearly and explained my intentions so that you know what I'm planning and why.

A few days in and my offensive is going well. I've omitted due to attack delays the division in the north of my western encirclement and have instead sent my two southern divisions to march north and cut the two divisions off instead - using Lister to fix the southern divisions while this is done.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3175/011bae.jpg
The encirclement on September 10th

My attack in the south is suffering from having to do it so soon - Lister's men are tired and are still at only about half strength, though in the next two days my flanking forces should hit them from the rear and make the battle rapidly shift in my favor.

Around the Duoro however things are becoming a little more tricky. While pushing forward without many problems the enemy is now shifting a substantial amount of independent brigades around my flank and to the south - possibly to cut off my corps around Barcelona, but with Burgos almost open to my own divisions this is a risk I'm willing to take. Likewise in the south my lone screening division has now been brought to battle and my mountain troops in the north are now down to their last few days of glorious fighting. Unfortunately on the 13th these troops were forced to surrender, and it seems a few more divisions are available to the Nationalists and we can expect a counterattack against my Madrid front in a matter of a week or two.

Over in Barcelona things are still going quite well...

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3479/012clo.jpg

As you can see I'm holding a defensive line around Tarragona (with the airbase) and am attacking what brigades the enemy has around Barcelona, though right now that attack is suffering from the fact that the enemy has been reinforced by a headquarters brigade. Should I manage to keep up a good pace though I will be able to take our the enemy without much hassle in due time.

Things become more tricky around Madrid before I think they will though...

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4136/013xqi.jpg

As you can see things are bad. While I've managed to encircle and am now in the process of destroying two divisions the enemy has more than enough in reserve to throw at me. Furthermore my swinging door has hit a brick wall around Burgos and indeed their movements around my flank is now giving me a real problem as they are probing into my rear. To deal with this I'm detaching a full brigade from my encirclement and sending it east to deal with them. But this won't be enough for as you can see the enemy is very quickly approaching from the south as well - with four full divisions at the minimum. Which means I'll need to move quickly those forces encircling right now as soon as they are done to protect Madrid from the south. I cannot wait for those militia divisions.

Eventually we manage to destroy the two divisions that have been encircled and Burgos is taken but by now things have begun collapsing - the enemy is both in my rear and flanks and it looks like I'll have huge difficulties getting my divisions away from Burgos without being cut off and destroyed and worse yet my corps in Barcelona has been cut off from my forces around Madrid. It seems that by the time October roles around Madrid will be completely encircled.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3959/014zxi.jpg

InfiniteJest

08-12-2009, 12:44 AM

Thanks for doing the AAR, CSL. I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Raife

08-12-2009, 01:26 AM

I think you should push through those northern forces and invade France.

rezaf

08-12-2009, 01:44 AM

Thanks a bunch CSL, these last few shots are way better.

I also googled a bit for more HoI3 screens (I haven't been following this very much since early alpha screens) and I found that at least they don't look THAT hideous. Not as nice as hand drawn map style looked, mind you, but at least a little less awful.
Somehow your installation seems a little borked, though - some border tiles look messed up.
_____
rezaf

Kalle

08-12-2009, 04:21 AM

Yes, the province borders don't look like that in my game.

salwon

08-12-2009, 08:13 AM

Any insight into how well the AI uses air power, or are you handling that yourself? What assets do you have attached where?

EDIT: Also, are you giving the commands at the corps or division level?

Benhur

08-12-2009, 10:00 AM

Jon Rowe

08-12-2009, 10:23 AM

their movements around my flank is now giving me a real problem as they are probing into my rear.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

schurem

08-12-2009, 10:37 AM

Yeah warfare is such a homo-erotic bussiness :P

http://www.expreszo.nl/images/headlines/3025.jpg

CSL

08-12-2009, 01:58 PM

Any insight into how well the AI uses air power, or are you handling that yourself? What assets do you have attached where?

EDIT: Also, are you giving the commands at the corps or division level?

I'm giving commands at the divisional level - I don't plan on using ai corps control at all in this game.

I'm handling the air power, though I might change that. Right now I have three groups of two wings of interceptors, tactical combers, and strategic bombers. I believe the Nationalists have an equal number of interceptors but little else.

Sarkus

08-12-2009, 02:05 PM

Good AAR so far. As a side note, I too had the border problem for some reason while playing on my regular Vista profile. I ran the game in my Administrator profile and the borders were fine. Not sure why, but there ya go.

There is also some talk on the official boards about it being a problem for Steam purchasers. I have the Steam version and see the same border stuff CSL's screenshots show. I wonder what version CSL has or what you have and if that is a true angle to this particular problem.

schurem

08-12-2009, 03:14 PM

InfiniteJest

08-12-2009, 03:14 PM

There is also some talk on the official boards about it being a problem for Steam purchasers. I have the Steam version and see the same border stuff CSL's screenshots show. I wonder what version CSL has or what you have and if that is a true angle to this particular problem.

Ok, so I have the Steam version and the same problem as CSL. I tried the suggestion to run the game as administrator (through a shortcut to the actual exe in steam's subdirectories) but no dice.

Then I decided, well it's probably in the map/cache directory. I tried removing some of the possible culprit files and then rebuilding the cache by starting the game. But nothing. I finally decided to rebuild the entire map cache. Don't do this! It takes around four hours to rebuild.

But...success! Sort of. After rebuilding the cache, the borders were fixed but there was no terrain texture and the entire world was pink.

I fixed that problem by restoring the "textures" folder of my old map cache and I now have a game that looks normal. Assuming I haven't screwed up anything else in the process.

Sarkus

08-12-2009, 04:26 PM

Ok, so I have the Steam version and the same problem as CSL. I tried the suggestion to run the game as administrator (through a shortcut to the actual exe in steam's subdirectories) but no dice.

Then I decided, well it's probably in the map/cache directory. I tried removing some of the possible culprit files and then rebuilding the cache by starting the game. But nothing. I finally decided to rebuild the entire map cache. Don't do this! It takes around four hours to rebuild.

But...success! Sort of. After rebuilding the cache, the borders were fixed but there was no terrain texture and the entire world was pink.

I fixed that problem by restoring the "textures" folder of my old map cache and I now have a game that looks normal. Assuming I haven't screwed up anything else in the process.

Hmm. I'm not bothered enough by it mess around with anything, but I hope you post this over on the bug forums. That way Paradox will hopefully figure out why this is happening, Steam related or not.

InfiniteJest

08-12-2009, 07:35 PM

Hmm. I'm not bothered enough by it mess around with anything, but I hope you post this over on the bug forums.

I just reported this and posted a screenshot. Search won't work for me on the Paradox forums and my google-fu won't substitute in the bugforum case so I have no idea if it's a duplicate or not. I'm sure it'll get lost in all the noise of people complaining about typos and or reporting as bugs features that are documented in the manual, but hey I tried.

Eduardo X

08-12-2009, 11:26 PM

Sorry for my stupid attempt at humor. I'd hate to derail this thread, because this AAR is lookin good. Do you reckon you can win this little war? Or is the tide swinging away from your favor and will the republic be doomed? Isnt setting up all those air missions a big hassle? Have you gotten more support than the english divisions? pls post moar CLS :D

The real Spanish Republic got no support from anybody, save volunteers from around the world. They got "help" from the Soviet Union by getting guns and ammo and generals who would later be "purged" by Stalin for their failure. They were all dead-set on being right rather than on winning the war.

My first (and only completed) HoI game was as Republican Spain, and even though I made some terribly stupid moves (building a huge fort in North Africa hoping to use it to defend against the nationalists, for example) I ended up winning and invading Vichy France, hoping the allies would use Spain as a staging ground for an invasion.

They didn't, and instead tried several D-Days that failed miserably. I'm pretty sure Germany survived the war, but then so did the Spanish Republic.

Viva Duruti!

CSL

08-12-2009, 11:56 PM

The Civil War - Part IV
Screw you Franco!

Things aren't going well.

When October starts our forces are in disarray and an attempted encirclement is now backfiring against us.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3847/015rcy.jpg

As you can see Rojo Lluch is surrounded and will soon be destroyed and our attacks are getting nowhere. While we retain some strength around Madrid it seems the end is near. The only good news comes from Barcelona when on October 6th we find that the Nationalists have surrendered and we've now got that part of the country firmly under our control and we can now move a corps of soldiers towards Madrid.

By mid-month I've begun to contract around the city and am now holding out for my forces from Barcelona to intervene, they are now moving with all speed to my desperate defenders. Thankfully in a bit of good news Rojo Lluch's division has been saved and is now in our lines.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1209/016utr.jpg

As you can see in this screenshot things are going badly in mid-October. I've hatched a last desperate plan which might save the war. For now I'll hold the Madrid pocket with the bulk of my forces north of the city, contracting if need be. Meanwhile forces in the east will attempt to link with those coming west from Barcelona. If we can do this correctly we can attempt to pocket another group of Nationalist forces and potentially take a big chuck out of their forces. Thankfully the arrival of two new militia divisions has given us enough extra forces to attempt this.

When late October roles around we've managed to push out east of Madrid without much difficulty - surrounding one enemy division but the Nationalists have largely abandoned a static defense on that line, instead they seem to be moving against my incoming corps which has by now run into supply problems. Nevertheless we also manage to cut off and destroy a full brigade of retreating Nationalist forces. While things aren't going their best, they are certainly managing to look up by the start of November.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2962/017axo.jpg
October 24th 1936

This doesn't last long though. The Nationalists still have a huge advantage over our forces and they easily deal with my attempted encirclements - though we once again manage to destroy a few brigades of enemy infantry in one or two isolated pockets. Regardless within two weeks my forces are driven back several hundred kilometers towrards Barcelona, my forces only stopping to make deseperate defensive battles against the enemy.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9108/018lwo.jpg
Early November

As you can see from this screenshot by November the situation is dire throughout Spain - perhaps the worst since the start of the war. My men around Madrid are cut off permanently from the Barcelona pocket and those men are now out of supplies, unable to do anything other than fight a defensive battle. While the capital can out for I hope several months we cannot simply stand on a defensive line as no held will reach us. Militia units are now activated but they are little more than sentinals against a renewed Nationalist advance and to have any hope I'll need to continue to have a large active defense striking at the enemy every week with the aim of reducing his numbers - alas I think this task impossible.

CSL

08-13-2009, 12:10 AM

Problems With the Spanish Civil War in HoI3

As I can see it the current Spanish Civil War suffers from a large amount of errors in HoI3, of which I might tender the following.

1. The current events give a decisive edge towards the Nationalists. While this might be well and good from a historic view it completely overlooks the role which militia and volunteers played. I manage to get a total of nine infantry brigades through events at the start of the civil war and nothing else? Where are the tanks and bombers that the Soviets sent? Where are the volunteer brigades from the United States, Britain, and France? Moreover you've managed to give Spain so many more provinces and don't give me near enough units to adequately use all of them?

2. There is absolutely no provision for Basque and other factions raising their own militia to combat the Nationalists. This just seems odd.

3. How come there aren't any decisions to allow me to let the leftists to become a greater part of the government in exchange for more combat forces? Likewise why can't I align myself with Moscow further to get more overt support?

Essentially right now the Spanish Civil War seems broken - sure the initial period seems fine and well made to promote the idea that this is a chaotic no-holds barred fight but there isn't nearly enough on the board to get a real good fight that can last the amount of time that the real war went on for. As it seems it looks like the Republicans will always contract around Madrid and eventually be crushed in time by the larger Nationalist edge in regular forces.

Kalle

08-13-2009, 03:08 AM

The Spanish civil war event gives the nationalists 55% of Spain's brigades. In addition, the intervention events which always fire gives three extra infantry brigades per country. That's pretty much it. The event chain is incredibly sparse. I've seen the AI republicans win, and I suspect it has a lot to do with the specific type of brigades that defect since the split seems to be random.

schurem

08-13-2009, 03:25 AM

That's how my attempt at the republic went too. I blamed it at my inept newbie leadership. But even old hands get this. I feel less dumb now ;-)

I bet it won't be long until event packs start to surface. Either from fans or from Paradox. They'd make great DLC (better than frakkin sprites!)

Kalle

08-13-2009, 03:27 AM

If Paradox started selling event packs I expect the community would be in full "why did you cut them from the released product!" riot mode.

salwon

08-13-2009, 05:16 AM

As the US, I had no option to impact the war at all (beyond trade etc). This disappointed me.

Jakub

08-13-2009, 07:51 AM

Wow, you're pretty much screwed. It's a very historical campaign so far, however. The Nationalists did turn their military control and experience, combined with far better German aid, into a solid, constant offensive.

rezaf

08-13-2009, 08:58 AM

Disappointingly sparse events indeed, but from what I understand completely in line with Paradox' new policy of keeping things "flexible" as in EU3.
Hopefully modders will once again step in to save the day.
Or maybe an official mini-addon for $15, "Franco's Ambition"? :p
_____
rezaf

Sarkus

08-13-2009, 11:30 AM

Yeah, I've seen the Republicans win in a few games, so it is possible, though that doesn't discount the possibility that it is due to random luck.

My only complaint is that the war ends so quickly. Historically the war took almost three years, but in each of the games I've played it's been over in a matter of months.

InfiniteJest

08-13-2009, 01:25 PM

If you play any of the intervening powers, your intervention decision doesn't appear to actually do anything at all except change relations. I was hoping to send an expeditionary force or otherwise loan Nationalist Spain some forces to increase my "practical" scores or gain unit experience, but no.

Paradox could have kept things more flexible but tied it together a bit better IMO.

Kalle

08-13-2009, 01:39 PM

CSL

08-13-2009, 07:05 PM

As I see it both sides should get a somewhat considerable number of militia units on top of those that come from the majors intervening as well as the ability of the Soviets, Germans, and Italians to take additional action like sending in armoured units or better infantry. The key of it all should be to just allow both sides to have a much larger amount of units - sure we can say that what is going on now is historical but its playing out much too fast due to a considerable lack of units. The Republicans historically were able to man a front three times larger than what I am doing right now!

InfiniteJest

08-13-2009, 07:27 PM

Intervening gives the faction you're supporting three infantry brigades. It doesn't show up in the decision menu since it's triggered by an event in the country you support, but it's there. There's really no reason not to do it, unless you deliberately want to weaken "your" side of the civil war.

Sorry I should have been clearer. I realize the side gets the brigades but I only know that because I've played Spain. There should really be better feedback.* And in any case the intervention feels....weak. Outside of giving some additional, minor support to my side it does little for me as a nation. As I see it the whole problem with the decision is that it's not really a decision. Like you say, there's really no reason not to intervene. There should be a cost to do so, even for "sending" the 3 brigades every intervener sends.

I'm looking forward to CSL's Spanish Civil War Improvement mod.

*Actually HOI3 is worse for event feedback than HOI2 where at least you'd get tooltips explaining what game effect the event has.

Lakedaimon

08-13-2009, 08:45 PM

Certainly disappointed that the scenario is a clunker, but I appreciate you writing it up anyways CSL

My favorite anecdote about the SCW were the thousands of unemployed Italians who hopped on boats going to North Africa ostensibly to be extras in the film "Scipio in Africa". Instead they landed in Spain, were handed rifles and thanked for volunteering to fight against Communism. Hey it may be apochryphal but I still think its pretty funny.

Jakub

08-13-2009, 08:58 PM

3. How come there aren't any decisions to allow me to let the leftists to become a greater part of the government in exchange for more combat forces? Likewise why can't I align myself with Moscow further to get more overt support?
Technically, Moscow wasn't really that committed to a victory in Spain. The Russians wanted a victory based on their ideology that they could make money off of, or barring that, just make money while holding onto their ideology. This meant, for example, the disastrous dispersion of tanks and lack of co-ordination of air power. Both ideas belonged to the Tukachevsky school of military thought, and given the fact that Stalin had by now solidified power, Tukachevsky was not long for this world; he wouldn't see the outcome of the conflict. With the purges at their heights, Soviet liaisons in Spain wisely held back from endorsing such Trotskyite ideas, though most ended up in the gulags anyway.

CSL

08-15-2009, 01:06 AM

Technically, Moscow wasn't really that committed to a victory in Spain. The Russians wanted a victory based on their ideology that they could make money off of, or barring that, just make money while holding onto their ideology. This meant, for example, the disastrous dispersion of tanks and lack of co-ordination of air power. Both ideas belonged to the Tukachevsky school of military thought, and given the fact that Stalin had by now solidified power, Tukachevsky was not long for this world; he wouldn't see the outcome of the conflict. With the purges at their heights, Soviet liaisons in Spain wisely held back from endorsing such Trotskyite ideas, though most ended up in the gulags anyway.

While that might make sense if Paradox were making an overt attempt at modelling history - they aren't. I should be able to, as the Republican government, move my nation towards a more Stalinist government in exchange for tanks and other weapons. Besides since we can now get light armor in brigade form which I'll integrate into divisions this shouldn't be a problem vis a vis the Tukachevsky model. Besides who ever models Tukachevsky in this games?